898. - Brenda Weischer

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian, and they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world, and they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. [upbeat music] How Long Gone recording in progress. Uh, it is Chris Black. I am, um, coming to you from a still snow-covered New York City. The sun is out though, so things are looking up.

Mm. I heard on the Fashion People, the great podcast on Puck with our friend Lauren Sherman, that you're okay with the s- with the cold weather as long as the sun is shining, right?

Well, I would prefer no gray snow on the ground, but I have to say, uh, that, that, and I hate to give Maybach Zoe more credit, but the streets are quite clean.

Cleaner than, cleaner than when, uh, Mayor Eric Adams was in charge.

Yeah, [laughs] yeah, yes. I-

[laughs]

Well, I don't really, I wasn't paying attention quite as much when Mayor Adam- I was only paying attention to his catchphrases. I sorta wasn't worried about what he was doing as far as the streets were concerned.

Just feels unfair that he was not under the same amount of scrutiny as Maybach Zoe.

I completely agree, Jason. That's, that's an L I'm gonna take and I'm gonna learn and, and get better hopefully.

Look, it's not you, it's all of us.

It's all of us. But yeah, I, um, I, I've been trudging through the snow. I had a real challenge on, on Sunday-

Mm

... um, where it was kinda Chris versus the elements vibes.

All five elements, or which ones?

Unfor- [laughs] unfortunately, there was no break dancing or turntablism. It was just me, uh, being requested by a, a close loved one to pick up Apollo bagels, um, after I left the, the Equinox and it was, um, I would say a hard, uh, to extremely hard sleet coming down and the snow was touching-

[laughs]

... eight or nine inches. Pause.

[laughs]

So I was, it was just, it was me, it was, it was Chris versus the elements, and luckily I did make it home in one piece and was able to secure the pack, uh, at Apollo Bagels.

Okay. How many, how many miles is it from Equinox to Apollo Bagels?

I would say miles might be an overestimation. I would say it's probably [laughs] in the 15 to 16-minute range, but in the, in those conditions, Jason, it's, uh, I might as well be scaling Taipei 101.

[laughs] Okay, so 15-minute cab ride or a 15-minute walking?

No, no, no. This is, no, I, I'd, I walked all, I walked only in the snow. You can't take a, it-

Mm-hmm

... it takes longer in a cab.

I was just joking. I was just joking. I was just joking. Um, and, and how many bagels did you get this unnamed loved one?

Uh, well, the thing about, uh, Apollo Bagels-

[laughs]

... which I, I love, um-

Mm-hmm

... is that you can only order, you can't order, like pl- you, you have to get six minimum.

You, okay, you can't, you can't, we can't do, um, eights?

You can't, uh, it's not like C-

Only, only zips and zeros

... yeah, it ain't Courage where you go wait in line for 45 minutes to get flowers from Noma on top of your sesame. And this is-

Oh. [laughs]

This is real New York shit, baby. Uh, no.

Those real bagels over at Apollo Bagels.

You get six bagels. They do the fresh squeezed orange juice. They were playing fucking MJ Lenderman. It was, it was busy even though it was so, it was so snowy.

That's 'cause New York-

We don't give a fuck

... yeah, you guys are brawlick over there. You'll fucking... Uh, I pulled up, um, the Apollo's bagels. The first photo is a, is a bagel covered in cucumbers and dill just like sh- uh, Courage, and then the second one covered in, uh, heirloom tomatoes, also stolen from Courage Bagels. So I would love to see about the, the hard-nosed blue collar working class- [laughs]

No, I'm joking. I don't know who invented the open face bagel because I don't eat them like that regardl- that's why I buy them.

Oh, they also do a plain butter one, also stolen from Courage Bagels. Interesting.

[laughs]

Wow, Jesus. This is as if I had Claude make a fake Courage Bagels-

Courage

... and open it in Manhattan. [laughs]

I love the idea that Courage Bagels is like, "Oh, butter on a bagel? No, we, we kinda started that," I would say. I mean, I don't wanna be first to market.

Well, they, I mean, they didn't, they didn't invent it, but, you know, making it a thing, they, they d- they kinda burn it, they char it a little bit, they cover it with like a lot of butter.

I'm sorry, bro, I'm not gonna let you, I'm not gonna let you give Courage butter on a bagel. I'm sorry.

[laughs]

I can't let you g- I can't, I can take the other ones. I can appreciate the other ones.

They didn't invent it, but they, they re-

They pr-

... they reimagined it-

[laughs]

... in a way-

They, they, uh, they r-

... for 2025.

Yeah, I was about to say, they reimagined it, doubled, tripled it, quadrupled it in price, and then sold it to the worst people you've ever met.

[laughs]

And it tastes delicious. It tastes delicious.

Yeah, but when you get butter on a bagel at the, you know, at the Staten Island bodega, it's not some imported French, you know, French butter.

Yeah.

It's-

It tastes good. I agree. It's-

[laughs]

I agree with you. It's different and-

They're, they're doing whatever the cheapest butter at Cisco is w- we're finna cop that, whereas the Courage Bagel, you know, this is a high dollar item.

Of course. No, I've never, I've still never had-

They're simply scraping it on there

... I've still never had a Courage Bagel, and I, I love waste, of course. So if they're, if they're able to put a-

[laughs]

... half a stick of the good French shit all over my everything, I'm, I'm... Obviously the, the plain bagel with butter, uh, is a, is the best, um, hangover remedy, the, as, as I recall it.

Mm. Because, because the, the cream cheese can kinda slow you down when you're going through it.

Yeah, cream cheese is... I, well, I just think all bagels, uh, when cream cheese is added, they add too mu- it's just too much cream cheese. I've never seen it not be applied so liberally-

[laughs]

... that I wanna puke, you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

They really dump it on there. Um, but this new, that place I hate, Popup Bagels, they encourage you to rip and dip. Uh, no-

Mm-hmm

... Fairfax.

Yeah. Rip- ripping and dipping is a popular thing nowadays.

I think it's Montreal. I think that's a Montreal style thing as well. Um-

Oh?

But those bagels are bad too. No offense to our Canadian listeners, but-

[laughs]

... New York kinda, I would rather have Courage than Saint, you know? I, I don't, it's just not for me.

Not to nitpick, but Courage Bagels sort of-In the style of Montreal, but let us digress, Chris

[laughs] No, they're a little, they're a little thick. I feel like the hole is smaller

And we got clean audio of that.

Don't say it

I'm not even gonna say it.

[laughs]

I'm not even gonna say it

I think the, I think the hole is smaller, deadass.

[laughs]

The, but the bottom line, the bottom line with all this is if I'm gonna go all the way over to the East Side to be around fucking guys with beards and Birkenstock Bostons on, I'm going to Squirrel, baby.

Mm-hmm.

That's, that's, that's what it comes down to, on God.

Mm-hmm.

I'm going to Squirrel. I'm getting some crispy rice and I'm getting the fuck out of there.

Okay. Well, you, you are coming to Cali this weekend for the annual Grammy Award ceremony. Not in attendance, but you'll be, you know, kind of peripherally around.

[laughs] Yeah.

Buzzing around HQ. Buzzing around Video Village. And we should go... We, we're gonna hit Quarter Sheets, we're gonna hit Squirrel. Are there any... What's the, what's the trifecta that we need to hit?

Well, thank God Horses is closed, so I'm not forced to go there anymore. Um, I'm trying to think. I mean, I feel like we've got all-

How much did you donate to their GoFundMe again, Chris? I forgot.

Can you negatively donate? Is there a way to-

[laughs]

Is there a way to sort of, like-

You're hoping to extract funds from them?

[laughs] Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's some of these GoFundMe's that, I mean, I, I think the employees got the shit end of the stick of that deal, obviously. I'm just joking.

Yeah. Yeah.

But I mean, it is, it's, it's, it's hilarious for me for an Instagram account of a restaurant to be posting a GoFundMe for their employ- Like, think about that. Like, the mechanics of that are very, uh, confusing-

Mm

... and backwards, I would say.

And a mechanic, that's a job where no one's gonna ask for a GoFundMe. They're gonna take that L, go sleep in their car like a real American.

Get some fu- Yeah. I'm, I'm in the Corolla tonight, but I'm, I'm gonna be at work tomorrow. Uh, I don't know. I'm gonna-

[laughs]

I haven't even thought about my dining. There's so... I'm kind of, I've overscheduled myself as always. Um, I gotta take T-

Christopher

... I gotta take Tim to dinner for his birthday. We got some parties on Friday. We got parties on Saturday. We got a party on Sunday.

Mm-hmm.

Um, we gotta shoot on Monday and Tuesday. So it's a, it's a full, it's a packed trip, I have to say. It's a packed, it, it's a packed trip.

Yeah. I might even be doing a little DJ action on Sunday. Who's to say?

I mean, I've, I... As I said to you before, if, if Jason DJs, the upside is no matter how long the set is, I have a 80 to 90% chance of hearing a single Smiths song.

Mm-hmm.

Whereas with other DJs I can't guarantee that. That's sort of the Vim Jeans promise, I, I think.

[laughs]

Not just to me, but to the, all of the-

Mm-hmm

... dance floor divas. I think that's the Vim Jeans promise, and that's why we keep coming back for your business.

Mm-hmm. No, I mean, not everyone keeps coming back for the business-

[laughs]

... 'cause not everyone... You know, but I mean, y- good old, good old Morrissey and good old The Smiths in the club, it's a, it's a divisive thing. It makes you, you know, hearken back to the times when Chloe Sev was, you know, in, in Sway, uh, you know, doing key bumps and just s- singing her ass off to, you know, a cool Smiths song. [upbeat music] You wanna recreate that energy and that vibe always. But not everyone enjoys Morrissey.

Well, if you don't, you're a loser, and that's, you can, you can take that from me. I mean, I wanna-

Simple as.

[laughs] Simple as. Um, yeah, I think that's really it. Yeah, I'm excited to go. I'm excited to podcast today. I'm just, you know-

All right

... once the sun, once the sun's out I'm happy. I, I watched some Southern Charm last night. It's getting really good. The boys are fighting. So things are looking up.

Pause. Okay.

Things are good.

The boys are fighting on Southern Charm. The claws are coming out.

Well, there's also... You would be interested in this. The hot... I would say that there's a new woman on Southern Charm this season that may be the hottest woman th- that's ever been on a Bravo show.

Okay.

I don't wanna say it hands down.

What the at, though?

Her name is Charlie. She's from a small town in South Carolina. Her, her mom is clearly, um, sort of, you know, like, been divorced four times and this is my hot daughter, this is my ticket kind of vibe.

Is her name Charlie Manley from, from, uh, Charleston, South Carolina?

She's fr- she lives in Charleston. She... I believe she's from Greenwood, South Carolina, where her mother owns, uh, a few boutiques, clothing boutiques.

This looks right. He, she's o- the only mutual we have is relationshep, so this feels-

[laughs] Yeah

... like it's the right one.

Shep, Shep hasn't hit, so it's just... But Craig is vying for her love, and Craig's created a problem between her and her friend Sally. It's just a, it's, it's good drama, but she looks like... You know, if the right person saw her, she could be whisked off to, to Paris, you know what I mean? She could be look 48 in Chanel couture.

[laughs]

You know what I mean? It's like-

Uh

... she's not looking [laughs]

I might push back a little on that one.

[laughs]

I might push back a little bit.

I put, I was hoping for some pushback.

[laughs]

I was hoping for some pushback. I was hoping for some pushback. I was baiting you.

Look 48 for which brand exactly? [laughs]

[laughs] I wouldn't wish her on Jacquemus, of course, but, you know-

No, no

... she'd take anything. Um-

She has a little more Su- Sunday Beers merch line look 48 perhaps.

Very... 100. Yeah, she's more of a, yeah [laughs] she's more of a Dairy Boy look for.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, I agree. I agree. But still, look, a, a Dairy Boy 4 is, is still something.

Yeah, we gotta start somewhere. Um, I guess speaking of Dairy Boy, how do we feel about Kanye West's apology?

Well, I mean, since Milo Yiannopoulos wrote it, I think we should really critique him. But then there was a-

Mm-hmm

... I guess Vanity Fair had an exclusive with Kanye today, but he did it by email-

Hmm

... um, which we all know is a cop-out and that usually... I mean, obviously they tell you that up front, but-

Mm-hmm

... it feels the same as the statement. I mean, Wall Street Journal feels like a funny place for that. Uh, it feels like-

[laughs]

... he thought he should go to the paper where they talk about finance the most-

Mm-hmm

... um, because of who he offended, which feels still-

[laughs]

... antisemitic somehow. Like-

Is, is that... I didn't read the apology, but did, did he say that I chose the Wall Street Journal 'cause y'all, y'all Jews be into finance?

No. [laughs]

Okay. I just wanted...

No, he did not say that. No, he did not say that.

Okay. Just wanted to s- check how strategic he was with his media outlet.

He blamed a lot... There was a lot of injuries. There's all kinds of shit where I'm just like, "Okay."

He's go- he's going for the, uh, the Roseanne head trauma, CTE.

Yes.

If that is true, I think it's fine, and I'm sure there is some truth to it.

Oh, I, I don't at all.

[laughs]

I don't at all. I th- I, I think-

I'm, I'm saying it's 100% that, but I'm saying it could be some

... I think he's making, I think he's making shit up as he goes along, and-Doing what people— I mean, look, he's got an album coming out. There's-- that's not a joke. So we, you know, you know what time it is with him when it's, when it's album mode.

Mm-hmm.

Bullet-- Bully in store soon.

I feel like Bully has been out for four years now.

I would rather listen to the band Bully, that's for sure. Uh, we have a guest-

[laughs]

We have a guest, say, uh, Brenda Hashtag. I've never actually said her legal last name before, so I'm gonna have to get her to pronounce it for me, uh, is joining us. I believe she's in Copenhagen. She's, uh, she's heavily online, she has a podcast, she writes these funny lists that I really like.

Mm.

Um, st- she's done it all really, and she only wears black and white separately.

Okay.

Which is something that I think Jason and I could sort of spy versus spy mode if we got together and figure out how to do it together.

Um, yeah, I don't know about that. Let's give her a call, Chris. [beep]

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

Three times a week, and I, I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, uh, Stateside.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts, you can watch on YouTube. It's three times a week, and, and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say.

[laughs]

Give it, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, "You're fine," you know, "Drink more water."

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly.

That's about it.

As if, as if I could drink more water, doctor. I, I, I don't get data. I don't get a game plan. I just get a pat on the ass and get out there and, and make it better. But SuperPower is doing something different. SuperPower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak. It's a simple blood draw, one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Uh, their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, and even environmental toxins. Ooh, ooh. So from disease prevention-

[laughs]

... to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go. SuperPower is more comprehensive and advanced system out there.

Make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with SuperPower. For a limited time, How Long Gone listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to superpower.com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership. That is code HOWLONG, and after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about SuperPower. Do us a favor if you could and tell them How Long Gone sent ya, and that'll just support us. Thanks. [beep]

I was always wondering if you guys record these before or after or at a separate date. So I'm obviously German, three minutes early, so I just got to listen to the last three minutes. I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

We, we were talk-

[laughs]

Who's coming out with an album?

Well, uh, speaking of Germans, we were talking about Kanye West.

[laughs] Oh, that's great.

Your boy, your boy.

[laughs]

That was not cleared on my PR sheet that I sent over.

No, no, I, I'm sorry about that.

Do you guys claim Kanye anymore or are you, are you out?

We're off that.

Or do you have, like, a little soft spot for him?

I don't think I separate the art and the artist, so no.

[laughs]

See, I do if it's somebody I like, but with him I don't like him enough to separate it.

Okay, let's see how German you are. What's the best Kanye record?

[laughs]

No comment.

[laughs] The answer is Yeezus, folks. Okay, let's move on.

Hold on. Is there a dog on your hotel bed?

Yeah, I'm sorry. This is Summer, and I don't know. She might also bark when someone's too close to her hotel room door.

Why is Summer busting it wide open like that?

The hell?

Summer, Summer is laying back.

I don't know. I don't know.

How long, how long has Summer been dead for? It looks-

No, she just went down. I had a full panic moment 'cause I couldn't find my headphones. We like-

Eh.

The big light came on, like whole situation, but now we've settled.

The big light came on.

[laughs]

You, you mean the one, the overhead light in the hotel? [laughs]

Yeah.

Not the ring light that you brought, Bluetooth powered.

I do not have a-- I don't own a ring light, but yeah, the big light came on.

That's a lie.

This was not my lighting preferred situation.

Your last name is Hashtag and you don't own a ring light? I don't know about that, girl.

You look, look, you look great. The lighting is working for you. But I have to admit, I own, I might own two ring lights from Amazon from-

Yeah

... the COVID era of content creation.

They're not nice.

I don't have a good one. I don't have a good one.

Yeah.

But then for what? For brand deals?

No, I feel like I had a-

Do you guys got your ring lights on? [laughs]

No, I feel like, uh, this is all natural. Uh, it's reflecting off the snow.

[laughs]

It's reflecting off the snow. I had one in my parents' house because it was just like, I feel like I was doing stu- I, I just felt like I should get it.

Ch- Chris' presidential suite at the, at the Atlanta house doesn't have great light-

[laughs] Yeah

... at all hours of the day.

As I do have my own floor. Um, the bathroom needs an update, but the lighting is not amazing for-

The black suite

... for sort of, for, for broadcasting, let's say.

I think the real girls don't have the ring light. They have that, like, LED thing that you just, like, attach to your phone and it's like a square.

Like, that's like above it.

Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Well, what is your-- Do you have the sticky back on your iPhone? Do you have the suction cups?

You are on a-- Yeah, I'm on my phone with the Squid Pro.

It w- what's it called? Squid Pro?

Squid Pro. [laughs]

Squid Pro. Okay.

Where do you get all this shit? I didn't know what it was called.

And then what, what is your phone stuck to right now?

Some mirror in my hotel room.

Okay.

Okay. I was gonna get one of these as a joke. I was gonna, like, get one and see how long it took for my wife to notice that it was on my phone as a prank.

[laughs]

But then I thought I might end up using it.

It's really useful. It's also-- Okay, you guys didn't know what Squid, Squid Pro was, but there is a term that, I don't know the English term, when a brand name takes over the product name.

Sure, like Kleenex or ChapStick.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yes.In German, it's also a tampon brand. Yeah, Kleenex. I think there's also a toilet paper.

Mm-hmm.

You're saying that Squid Pro [laughs] has-

Yes, to me.

[laughs]

To me.

You're... Okay.

To me, S- Squid Pro is, like, the thing, but maybe it isn't.

Can I ask a que-

But yeah

... can I ask a question? I, I... Because I haven't researched the Squid Pro and I'm just learning the name of it, what is the, what is the MSRP, what is the price on Squid Pro?

[laughs]

Where do I purchase one? What are the color options?

Did you get one for free, Squid Pro Quo?

[laughs] Squid, Squid Pro Quo.

I don't know. I don't really look. I think it could've been any tree. [laughs]

This bi- this bitch said, "I don't look at the tag online."

She doesn't check the price tag.

No, but there's a, there's price elasticity with some things, right?

[laughs]

So this could have been, like, $8 or 19. I don't-

Yeah, I understand that

... like, I don't know.

I understand that.

It's anywhere from 8 to $19, and she doesn't even care. Okay.

I would say under 20.

Don't care.

I would say under 20.

[laughs]

I don't care either, so we're, we're alike.

Yeah, well, you have, like, your limit where it hurts, you know?

I would like, love to know your limit where it hurts, 'cause I feel like it's a lot higher than ours.

[laughs]

For a Squid Pro?

I feel like it's a lot higher.

I would think 19.99.

No.

Okay, tell me when to stop, Brenda. Tell me when to stop.

You're, you're li- [laughs]

[laughs]

You're lying, 19.99. When you're shopping for some of your, you know, archival Yoji, your, your-

Mm-hmm

... your real shit, you're deep in the depths of the World Wide Web, I feel like that 19.99 might go up a little bit.

The price is elastic.

Okay. [laughs]

Yeah.

You'd be, you'd be surprised just how elastic it can get-

So you're saying your, your-

... in certain markets

... okay, so it's a, it's a powerful elastic that can, that can snap back-

[laughs]

... but also go quite far.

Yeah.

Depending on how archival things are, the scarcity.

Okay, so, 'cause are you, are you a shopper? Are you constantly shopping, or do you go through phases where you're locked in and you have your alerts set? Or is it sort of a full-time job?

No, it's not a full... I mean, I have all of my notifications on on Vestiaire. Like, there's safe searches, and then on The RealReal, I don't find The RealReal that good for the... You have to check, you know? Because The RealReal has the upload times.

I see.

Vestiaire Collective doesn't have that. And then eBay is, like, when you're really-

Can you ex- I'm sorry. Can you explain, can you explain the upload? You're saying there's a delay in, in uploads?

'Cause I have, I have Spectrum. How's my upload versus my download?

[laughs]

What's going on here?

But I have Verizon Fios.

It's a Fios issue probably.

So do you think I should check... What do, I, what are you saying? There's a lag?

Okay, I'm on the international plan. [laughs]

[laughs] So you're saying there's a l- you're saying there's a lag on the upload on The RealReal?

I don't have anything confirmed. This is, like, what the-

Mm-hmm

... streets are saying.

Sure.

[laughs]

That The RealReal has two upload times a day. Like, Vestiaire Collective, you can refresh and there, like, whenever.

Oh, okay, okay, okay.

Oh.

Yeah.

Okay.

But then also what we're peasants are seeing is not what the VIPs on The RealReal are seeing.

Mm-hmm.

I think they're seeing it a day earlier.

You're not a f- you're not a VIP.

When you say-

Tragique

... "we peasants," I don't, I don't... Come on.

[laughs]

We're all, we're all RealRe- we're all TRR power users here, Sweetie.

Okay.

Jason and I are both wearing shirts from Target right now, but I swear to God-

No

... we really got our money up, though. I'm telling you.

[laughs] I'm, like, in Gifted Extreme Cashmere like everybody else. [laughs]

I swear to God, that Gifted E- that Gifted Extreme Cashmere quarter zip is the warmest piece of clothing I've ever had, and I love it, but it's too war- it's almost like the Canada Goose where it's like there's a two-week period where you can wear it-

Where you can wear it

... where it, because I s- I'll just sweat.

It's, it's called extreme for a reason, all right?

That, that's true.

[laughs]

That's true. But I didn't know about this. Okay, so Realheads are talking about the upload time.

If The RealReal switched to our good friends at Squarespace, they would have upload times, you know, 24 hours a day probably.

Do you think they're doing it on purpose?

Yeah, there's, like, drop times, so the Real- the RealReal heads are, like, 10:00 AM, I think it's 10:00 AM, and then-

Okay

... a 7:00 P- but I'm not sure. I have to check.

Sure, but regardless, you, you think it's twice a day.

Yeah.

And okay.

And I'm on there.

And you're s-

My wife is gonna think these episodes are right off.

I'm on there.

She's learning so much.

I'm on there.

[laughs] I'm on there, but I think it's, like, any... If your life gets busy, then you forget, and then if you really have nothing to do, then you're on there for five hours researching product 2012.

Sure.

Do you have... What's the hierarchy of your doomscrolling, ADD, anxiety? Like, you start at TikTok, then Instagram, then, uh, you know, then The RealReal. You know, w- what's at the top, what's at the bottom, and, you know, where does eBay fit in there?

I think it depends on the mental health state.

[laughs]

So TikTok is more when I'm... You know, when you're feeling happy and you're doing your workout and eating healthy, then I'm not on TikTok. But then when-

[laughs]

... you're do-

Okay

... then, uh, you know?

So w- when you're eating, like, Wendy's at an airport, it's TikTok time, is what you're saying.

I don't do, I actually don't do fast food ever.

Davina schnitzel.

Exactly.

Oh, okay.

Exactly.

No fast food ever? That, I'm proud of you. I don't really either. Um, but I feel like for some reason when you say it, it hits harder than when I say it.

When's the last time... Yeah, when you, the, when, when you say it, it makes me feel poor for having, uh... What, um, what, what's the last fast food that you had? Do you remember?

I actually don't remember.

Wow.

Okay, it's been that long.

Mm-hmm.

You were in diapers probably.

And I know your ass doesn't cook. There ain't no way you cook.

[laughs]

I, I cook.

There ain't no way-

Like, uh-

... you cook. Heating, uh, heating up Nobu doesn't count as cooking.

You cook in the comments section. That's about it, okay?

[laughs]

[laughs] That's good.

What are you cooking? What are you whipping up?

What the hell is with that? I'ma ask Isaac, 'cause I know you ain't cooking.

I'm also... Guys, I'm such a fan of the podcast, so I get to experience this in real life. [laughs] It's so exciting.

Well, but we love that you listen, but now let's be honest about your cooking skills, 'cause I, I think-

Well, no, my cooking sometimes is, like, soaking the chia seeds overnight.

[laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

That's watering the plants. That's not cooking.

Yes. I am having-

I think, I count, I count that. Jason has a different scale, uh, to which-

Yeah

... you have to eat. You know what I mean?

So you, you're... So we're fiber maxing, and we have been fiber maxing for a while now.

We're fiber maxing. Then I also now have found a vegan protein powder that I like, so I'm here with my, like, b- zzz. You know? What's it called?

Oh, you have-

Duviska.

Yeah. [laughs]

Horrible

So, so you have the [laughs]

[laughs]

So you have the portable-

So I-

You have the portable whisker like a real IG protein thot.

I have the pro-

[laughs]

It's horrible.

Is the, is, is the whisker branded, or is it just a regular-

No, I think it's also more between the $9.99-

[laughs]

$19.99 range.

Got it, okay. Okay. It's not a Margiela whisker or anything like that.

What is the, what is the protein powder... I mean, we don't wanna put anybody on blast for free, but w- as protein maxers, most of our listeners would love to know what you're taking down.

Oh, you can, you can only get it in Germany, but I forget because it's in, like, it's, like, I packaged it, you know, to take it out of the huge... I'm not traveling with the one kilogram thing to Copenhagen-

Sure

... 'cause it looks suspicious. So I c-

Mm

... I can email you after.

So you broke it into small little baggies. Better to do that.

[laughs]

I broke it into small little-

I bro- I, I, I-

... Ziploc baggies

... I cut up my, my protein powder into grams, and I put it inside of my Rimowa, and nobody looked.

Okay, so does the, the, it comes in a big kind of tub. In A- in America, all of our protein powders have pictures of, like, guys, like, choking out bears-

No, this one's cute

... with a bear, you know?

Oh, it's cute? Okay.

It's like a little, like-

Okay

... it's like a flower, and then the, whatever, the vanilla.

Ours has, like, a LGBT logo with, like, a cross through it. It's like, "No gays allowed to have it," and it's, like, guns and-

Ours, like, you, you guys use the same?

America. Just America in general. I'm, I'm saying, well, I'm saying, like, our-

A- America [laughs]

... protein powders are very, like, masculine.

Yeah, they, it, it really-

Republican, conservative

... Jason's right. It's, like, it's camo.

No, mine's cute.

Okay, you found a cute one.

It's called, like, Homo Puncher, and it has, like-

[laughs]

... 85 grams of protein.

I feel like I shouldn't be laughing at anything you guys are saying. [laughs]

Uh, th- well, this is all audio. It's... [laughs]

[laughs] My new pro- my new protein powder, Homo Puncher.

Look, Brenda, you don't have to... Look, we all know-

The video's not recorded, right?

We are not recording video-

No, yeah, yeah

... but I will, of course, close caption for our listeners at home. Brenda is laughing with her face, not with her mouth, though. You know what I mean?

She's taking off her Extreme Cashmere.

Brenda, Brenda is very offended, and she's put off by all of this. She's hating all of this. It's a bad time. But your p- your, your vegan protein probably comes from peas or something, and there's a picture of, like, a-

Yeah, I think it's a pea situation

... yeah, it's a pea situation, which is fine.

Well, how concerned with you are your, with your diet? Or do you kinda eat whatever, or are you pretty on top of it?

Um, I tr- well, I try to be on t- top of it. A, I'm vegan, so.

Let's see your calves. How's your c- are your calves popping right now?

[laughs]

Clouts?

Your, your claviculars.

Calves. Your calves. Right here.

[laughs]

Clavicular. You don't know about c- clavicular looks maxing?

No. [laughs]

Good for you.

Honestly, you're better off. You're better off. It's one of the worst things. It's-

No, I mean, I know about looks maxing. Like, I know about, like, my, my tongue is supposed to be on the roof of my mouth, otherwise, like, your side profile doesn't look good.

Mm-hmm.

I know that.

Mm-hmm.

That's real. That's real. Well, there's, there's a, it's gotten way worse than that, I guess, is what I-

Okay

... is what I would say.

Okay.

And there's, there's a guy named Claviulu... [laughs] I can't even say his name.

Clavicular.

Cu- clavicular, who is, like, he went from, uh, naughty to hottie with a, um-

[laughs]

... mixture of surgeries and crazy procedures, but now he's sort of, like, become... He, didn't he run over someone with his car, Jason?

He, yeah, he hit a guy with the Cybertruck. He-

A lot of people have

... he does.

[laughs]

[laughs]

He says the N-word a lot and, uh, does meth.

It's like he, he, he has, like, friends on his l- stream that, like, almost die from ketamine, and he just keeps streaming.

Oh, it's a live streamer.

Yeah, he's, he's, he does it all, but yes, he's-

But he looks really good.

He looks hot as hell. He looks like a boy bander. Like, he looks like a boy bander. Like, he's ripped.

I will come up. I, I downloaded Twitch last week.

What?

Are you thinking about getting into the marketplace?

I think we should all be getting into live streams somewhere, but I just don't, I don't know.

What games are you playing? [laughs]

Well, no, I'm just watching what pe- I'm more, like, market research for now, like, watching what people are doing.

Okay.

We, we did a Twitch during COVID, and I have to say, it was one of the more fun things that we ever did, and I think it was great.

How many people do you have to have in there for it to not be embar- like, for it to be a thing? Like, 40?

[laughs]

Luckily, lu- luckily during COVID it didn't matter. I think now anything under, like, thousands is embarrassing, I would say.

Right.

If, if we were gonna... I, I just, I think that, I, I, I thought it was fun. Jason, did you think... I thought it was fun.

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, get a, get a couple hundred people in there, and the chat is, is flowing healthily. They will sort of demand requests of you in the chat room. Usually-

Mm-hmm

... you know, it's all very bad and offensive stuff. But every once in a while, somebody would say something really, really funny. Like, somebody would-

Really funny

... make a joke about us, and I was like, "That's the funniest thing I've heard in a month," you know?

Yeah, it was really good. I forgot about it.

So you gotta, m- much like eBay, it's a needle in a haystack. You gotta wade through a lot of shit-

Right

... to get that gold that you can't find on Vestaire.

But are you on TikTok? Are you a big TikTok user?

No, I'm f- I'm, I'm really flopping on TikTok, but, like, pushing through. I'm posting anyways, so, like-

Okay, you're, you're-

... you know, even if nobody sees.

So you're posting through the pain on TikTok, but you, do you feel like it's not a medium for you, that you'd rather stick to the old school?

Maybe as, like, an added-on deliverable to get an extra 5K. I've had, like, the TikTok video on top of something to get more money, but it's not a source of income for me, no.

Sure. I, I g- I-

Or it's like this, like, you only have to post it on, on TikTok, and, like, nobody will see, you know?

TikTok, we're not on it because we're adult men, and it feels wrong. Um, but I-

I get it

... I, once again, uh, like most of my life, I realize I'm leaving money on the table, as they say-

Yeah, for sure

... in the, in the business. But sometimes you gotta have a line.

Mm.

You know, you gotta have a line.

And, uh, and there's a big TikTok mutiny. Everyone is closing their accounts and leaving after the whole switch-up, and people are saying that, you know, everyone should just log out and move on because they're not allowing you to say the word Epstein anymore. They're taking away, like, creator rewards. I don't know. I've never used it, so I don't know how it works, but-

They've changed it quite a bit, and people, there's a mutiny of, of people, like-

Mm. Everyone, so, you know, you stick around long enough, and the, the tide will wash TikTok away for you, you know? And if, and then hopefully Chris and I look good by always saying that TikTok is for losers.

[laughs] Yeah, well, yeah.

And, like, Zuckerberg is for the people. [laughs]

[laughs]

Zuckerberg is a, a known for the people guy.

Yes.

We're into the, we're into the same stuff.

[laughs]

Gold chains, growing our hair out. I mean, what more could you want? Oh, my God.

Asian partners. Let's go.

Yeah, exactly. What more do you want? This guy wears sunscreen. He seems like a good guy to me.

[laughs]

Subtitles, Brenda is laughing.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Where, okay, so, so I wanna talk about yourYour podcast is insane, because you go-

Oh

... you go raw dog, just you... So historically, Jason and I have talked about this for years because there's a few comedians that have been doing that style of podcasting. Tim Dillon does it, uh, Bill Burr does it, where they just go an hour themselves.

You just hit record, black out in the booth an hour later, what the fuck did I just say? I don't know.

And it's, it's one of the most impressive things anyone can do.

I wish you hadn't told me that. I'm thinking I'm the only one doing it. [laughs]

Well, in your world you probably are, I would say. I mean, I think, like, a, a comedian doing it is a little more like-

Yeah

... sure, you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

But did you do it that way by accident or did you, was that the plan?

I think I know the answer.

Yeah, but I wanna say my answer.

I think you and I have the same thing in common which is we love talking, we love podcasting, we love self-promoting and blah, blah, blah. We hate-

Working. [laughs]

No, no. We hate booking guests, calendars, switch-ups, move this around, boom, boom, boom, like the-

Okay. The guests I can talk about-

... maintaining the calendar

... 'cause I'm debating. But yeah, so I think with anything, a product, a design, a, a party, anything you either do low budget or high budget and anything in between is just like a mess or waste of money. So it's either you get the sponsor-

Mm

... you get the studio, you get someone to edit or you don't. So I don't. [laughs]

Okay. So you just record yours on your BlackBerry and, and hit upload? How does it work?

Yeah. I got, I got an iPhone gifted last summer so that's my... I don't have a microphone.

[laughs]

I don't have anything, so I'm like-

Hold on, hold on

... recording on the voice

... so you're saying you're just doing, you're doing it-

Like notes

And you didn't have an iPhone until you got gifted one last year?

No, just like the... I'm just saying that's my production value.

Got it. Okay.

Like I got the new iPhone.

Okay.

Okay, so you have an iPhone 17.

And you record a voice note and upload that?

Well, there's, there's this app called Voice Note, right? Or Record or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I used to, I, I do it-

You know, Voice, Voice Memo

... yeah.

Voice Memo.

I do it for like interviews and transcriptions where you like send it to the intern and they do the thing. So I was like, okay, I might just... So I don't have like a podcast like an app or anything, so I just record and then it gets uploaded.

Okay.

That's it.

Do you... Okay.

[laughs]

Do, do you-

That's cool.

It's very cool unfortunately.

Uh, yeah. So there's no, there's no edit.

Do you, do you have notes or do you go into the booth with no pen and pad?

I used to have notes but now it's like really nothing. I'm going on nothing.

Okay. And do, but do you, do, have you seen a bigger respon- like the less notes you have, is the response better?

I mean, the response is when you say the risky thing or when you're really being honest about something.

'Cause you're, you, you'll say some shit. You're a shit talker, that's what I like about you.

I was listening to the most recent episode yesterday and-

Oh no. [laughs]

... you mentioned-

I don't know what I'm talk... I also don't listen to it, so I don't know.

Smart. Listening to it's for losers.

Allow me, allow me to reintroduce yourself-

Oh no. [laughs]

... to your podcast from 48 hours ago. You mentioned that, uh, an influencer that will go unnamed was like sitting in the second row.

I was also sitting second. I'm not throwing shade there.

Okay, okay.

That, that's fine then.

But you were mentioning that this influencer was sort of standing up and trying to move their, their phone or camera to make it appear as if they were in the front row.

It's a hustle, yes.

And you know, a lot of like, a lot of, uh, fashion show faux pas and no-nos, like you're not supposed to be standing up during the sh- you know, just like people who don't understand the rules and all that stuff. So who, who, who was the influencer?

I can't tell you. That's so rude.

We'll bleep, we'll bleep it out. We alwa- we bleep stuff out all the time. That's not a joke. It's more fun to bleep it out.

Actually, I don't know her username.

[laughs]

But like I, she's like very big.

We probably won't k- we probably won't even know who she is is the reality, Jason.

Is she hot?

I have only just... But I have like other crazy gossip from fashion that-

Is she hot though? Is she hot?

... people are talking about right now. Yeah, super hot.

[laughs] Okay.

Okay. Well, that's all that matters.

Very beautiful. No, I mean, I think it's like such a secretive world that I just hope to bring people a bit closer to it but in a hopefully entertaining way. But yeah, it's like some things can be edited out and can be made snappier, I'm aware. I hear, I hear complaints about mouth noises 'cause I won't stop to drink my c- like pause to drink my coffee. I will like [gulps] and then like-

Mm

... keep talking. [laughs] So it's like, it's an adventure, yeah.

It's like when Jason's chewing his edible like fucking Mr. Ed right on the mic. It's a little-

Yeah, but I edit that out nowadays.

I thought you left it in for texture.

I sometimes will. I som-

[laughs]

I'll, I'll leave in every time I open a beer, I op- you know?

Yeah. Brenda, it's like when Lil Wayne would, you would hear the lighter in the booth when he was-

Right

... lighting a blunt. It's part of the charm of the whole-

Like producer tag.

It's a pr- it's your producer tag. [laughs] Yeah, exactly.

Maytag music.

[laughs]

So you just, wherever you are, you just hit the voice note and you just go off dome?

Yeah.

Okay.

I mean, but it's also, you can, I think you can twist anything as marketing and saying, "I'm doing this to be real but also I don't have production budget." You know? Like so this is what it is.

Yeah. No, I-

I can spin it in a way like everything is full of intention, but... Ooh, oh my God.

I'm so grassroots, DIY with it, you know? It's like it's actually really punk rock the way I podcast. But it is 2026 and you said you were sort of flirting with the idea skipping the, the middle class of podcasting, going into maybe guests, video, you know, full, full production.

Well, I think at some point you're kind of running, I don't have a... Doing this with a partner is always like even if you don't feel like it, someone will. You know? Like you, you can catch each other's-

Mm-hmm

... um, energy a little bit, so doing it by yourself is also, it's a bit, you know-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... depressing. I'm sitting on my floor and just like talking to my phone. So I downloaded Riverside, that's how far I got so far.

Mm-hmm.

[laughs]

Okay. Okay.

Okay. [laughs]

App secured-

We're making moves

... in the App Store.

Yeah.

We're ma- a, a, free app secured.

Riverside motherfucking-

But I also don't know if, if people are up for me saying, "You're on it," and we don't edit it.

I think that's how most podcasts are.

I think it depends on who it is. I mean, I think if it's fucking Brad Pitt promoting F1, maybe not. But I think if it's sort of like-

Yeah, no, I don't want to be part of like some com- like PR rollout situation. But I also, I don't know if, if it's the same for, for you guys, but when I write for example or do interviews with people for magazines, I always find-That the most important people are the easiest, like don't wanna read shit, don't wanna prove anything-

Yeah. Oh, it's-

... and then the kind of like least important are the people who are begging you for the fe- uh, then like the, "Can you talk to my agent about-"

Mm-hmm

... can you edit this out? I don't like the picture. I don't, I don't know if that's your guys' experience.

Oh, it's d- that's hands down true-

Yeah. Mm-hmm

... for decades. That is 100%.

Mm-hmm.

It's always some bitch with 4,000 followers that got all kinds of questions and demands.

[laughs] Yeah. You sold 500 books, bitch. Leave me alone. We ain't taking that out.

[laughs]

We ain't taking that out. No, but I, I think that, I think that people also though, I think the temperature has changed and p- and I think the audience craves that realness, quote-unquote-

Mm-hmm

... maybe more than they ever have. So I think if you're smart, even if you're concerned about your image, you know that a couple things here and there make you seem more real-

Yeah

... and likable, you know, than, than having your agent come.

Or orchestrated imperfections, we could call them.

Love.

[laughs] Okay, love. Um-

I was, I was [laughs] okay, like I was thinking that today. What's, what's the catch for your audience? Is it they want someone, for a guest, they want someone funny, they want someone very smart? Do they wanna be taught something? [electronic trill]

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris, and sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them. Because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself, and that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over 6 million people globally are using it and, you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh. You know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, "Damn, I really am him." You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is betterH-E-L-P .com/howlong.

What is a Revolve Man, Jason? It's... Oh, [laughs] funny you ask.

What's a Revolve Man?

It's a r- a place where guys who care about how they look go to shop. Revolve Man is stocked with only the elevated essentials and trend-forward styles from brands like Polo Ralph Lauren, Salomon, Fear of God Essentials for our hoopers out there, and more. It's not fast fashion and it's not stuffy. It's the sweet spot between looking intentional and not looking like you tried too hard. That's what we're all trying to accomplish out here, Jason. New arrivals drop twice a week with free two-day shipping and next-day options, plus returns are genuinely easy.

Genuinely, yeah. It's one of those things, we're all busy. Let's say we got an important dinner coming up at the end of the week. It's Tuesday. You're working every single day. You don't have time to go shopping and try clothes on and blah, blah, blah, or even just browse. You know, Revolve, it's all there. It's all curated for what you want, and then you click buy, you go to bed. Couple days later, that shows up in packaging that's a little nicer than y- the other places you're buying clothes from, and you've got a nice look for the big night out. And then you're like, "Wait a minute, I don't even have to return this because I enjoy this clothing and I wanna wear it again another time," versus all those dumb other websites. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last-minute that actually works, Revolve Man always has it. Go to revolveman.com/howlong to shop and use code HOWLONG for 15% off your order. Free two-day shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That is revolve.com/howlong and use the promo code HOWLONG to get 15% off your entire order. Offer ends soon. Don't sleep on it. And you don't need clothes too. You can get just, you know, a cool candle or an incense gift for a baby shower. Whatever it is, revolve.com/howlong. [electronic trill]

They don't want anybody. They'd prefer it was just us-

Yeah

... but we forced them to hear the guests. I mean, I think someone who's funny, Jason, is usually the number, I mean, I would s- or not even funny, but can, like, hang with us in whatever way that is, I think is-

Yeah, just people, people who are good sports, people who, you know, if we ask like a, a s- a salacious question, they'll answer it and, you know, they'll play along. You know, it's helpful if they know what we do and have listened to the show before and know the rhythms of it. And you know, it's, but that's, that's the beautiful part. You never know if someone's gonna be good until it happens, and there's a lot of great, funny, amazing, interesting people that are kinda duds. And then there's some random fucking 60-year-old dudes I've never heard of-

Mm-hmm

... who blow me away, are just awesome, you know? So that's kind of the cool part about it.

Well, that's what, and yeah, peop- people always love to ask, "Who's your dream guest?" And it's become like, that's not how it works. Now it's like, I just wanna be surprised.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, the real question, who's our dream hosts? Us.

Yeah. [laughs]

That's it.

But guests, I mean, look, if getting into the guest game does make it much harder, you know, as far as, like, the workload goes.

I mean, I listened to your solo episode today, and I liked it more than the guests-

I mean, that's basically-

... episodes

... what everyone from my friend's dad to any, that's anybody that I-

Fuck the guests

... anybody that knows us.

Yeah, our, our episode that came out yesterday is gonna be way better than this one.

[laughs]

I agree.

[laughs] No, no, no, I'm just kidding. It was, but I mean, that, if, if you're a fan of a show, especially one like ours that comes three times a week-

Yeah, you wanna hear the hosts

... the para- parasocial relationship, those, those roots are deep and strong and-

Should I leave as well?

But that, that's where, that's what we try to do is, like most podcasts, if we bring a guest on, we're like, "Okay, so how'd you get into fashion? Where, you know, like, where, you know, like..." So we don't wanna, like, the guest doesn't care about you-'Cause they don't know who you are unless they're a fan of yours. You have thousands of fans, of course. But they don't wanna hear about somebody they don't know. They, w- we wanna have you come on and be like, "What do you think about all the stuff that's going on in the world and culture right now?" And base the opinion off of that versus, like, "And then I went to school, and then I got a job, and then I, now I do this." And, you know-

Have you ever had a job, Brenda, speaking of?

Yes.

Well, actually, I was, I was doing some research. Your first job, um, in fashion was at the house of & Other Stories.

Yeah. [laughs]

[laughs]

So what was, what was that like?

I was a retail girl. [laughs]

Well, I don't mean, I don't-

Did you guys do retail?

I don't... Yeah, I did. I loved it. I don't mean r- I don't, I meant, like, job job.

No, I got what you meant. [laughs]

Okay.

Have you worked a day in your life? [laughs]

No, I don't mean... No, no, [laughs] that is not what I meant. I really didn't. I meant more like-

Subtitles, Chris is blushing. [laughs]

[laughs]

Like, I've necessarily never had a real job by people's m- considerations. You know what I mean?

No, I do not see, like, a lot of employment in my life and not in the future.

[laughs]

I've not had a LinkedIn account.

Hell yeah.

There, uh, uh, one exists because I don't know who did it, but it's not me.

Would you agree that LinkedIn is for virgins?

I always wonder, like, should we be on there and just, like, be influencers? And would we get a following, or would nobody care?

No, but it's a different kind of language. Like, you don't speak that language that gets spoken on LinkedIn.

To be in, yeah, to be a LinkedIn influencer-

Oh.

I mean, there are people that definitely... I love LinkedIn because it's a nether world, the same way I like Facebook 'cause it's a nether world. But-

Another world

... if you're not on it, it's like if you haven't done cocaine by the time you're 30, you don't need to start, you know?

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

Right. Um, yeah, I send, I send the names of, like, fashion people, whoever's emailing, to anybody who's awake. Like, "Can you look them up?" Because I'm, like, behind the paywall, you know?

Mm.

Oh, yeah, they make you...

Mm.

Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

Yeah, so I can't, I can't look at anybody.

So you worked at & Other Stories.

Yes, retail job, three years.

How would you rate, how would you rate yourself at retail? What were your sales looking like? Was it commission-based?

Okay, so we were being... No, no commission. That doesn't really, I don't know if that exists in Germany, or at least I didn't know. That was not a thing.

It does, it doesn't exist at & Other Stories-

Well, I don't-

... y- you know, either way

... I don't think so. I, like, the cash register the most because you just, like, have the same small talk over and over and over again, but you were being rotated. I hated... I loved shop floor 'cause you would do, like, "Let me go and check in the back," and you would never check for anything and just check your phone. Hated changing rooms.

[laughs] Yeah, I mean-

'Cause people leave it a mess, even in nicer stores, and you're just like-

Can you get a, can you get a room started for me, Brenda?

I cannot.

[laughs]

So cash register was my favorite thing 'cause you just have the same small talk over and over, you know?

Okay, so cash register.

Yeah.

But then you, then what was your second? A- after you graduated from & Other Stories University, where did you take your talents?

An internship at PR Consulting New York on Hudson Street.

Oh, wow. Okay, so you were in New York at a young age. Were you out partying?

Uh, ish. All my, I was not in the clubs, but all my friends were in Bushwick. Like, it was always... I don't know.

I'm sorry to hear that, Brenda.

Yeah, I know.

I thought, I thought you were better than that.

I grew out of it. Yeah, me too, but, you know.

But you were young.

Yeah, it's, like, 2015, 2016.

Yeah, but that, that-

You know

... tw- 2016, I was, I was not young. Um, so I'm just trying to understand what was going on at the time, but Bushwick was what was going on at the time.

Bushwick, well, at least for me.

But you didn't, you didn't live there, I bet.

I lived in Williamsburg, Berry and South 2nd. Found my room on Craigslist.

Wow, okay.

Yeah, $1,100.

Were they abusive at PR Consulting, or was it pretty good?

Yes. I have, I mean, now it's fun because there's even some people who now invite me to shows, and I was, like, their intern, you know? So it's like, that's cute.

Oh.

Ooh.

"Remember when you threw a coffee at me, bitch? Now I'm in the room." [laughs]

That's cute. [laughs]

No, it's amazing. No, but there was, like, two people were nice to me. The rest were not. But it's also, I think you, with empathy, 10 years later, you know that their life also sucked, you know? And their boss was mean to them.

Mm.

So it's kind of just, like, it was not the best environment.

Hurt people hurt people, especially in PR.

Exactly. [laughs] Hurt people hurt people. Exactly.

Hurt, hurt people hurt people. It's real. It's real.

Yeah, shout out to all of our PR girlies out there, and if, even if you're a guy working in PR, you're still a girlie.

[laughs]

Right?

We love you.

Would you agree with that, Brenda?

I'm just pretending my screen is frozen.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Huh?

Wow, I, I didn't know you had this Williamsburg phase.

[laughs]

I didn't, I didn't realize this.

What kind of music were you listening to in Williamsburg 2026, De Lumineus?

[laughs]

Actually, I don't know.

What do you mean you don't know?

I don't know what was t- I don't, I don't know what was playing.

You don't know what you were doing in 2016? There's something fishy about this.

Well, it was probably Kanye. [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

Kanye West Yeezus.

Yeah, I was in, like, Yeezus merch, like, a fake bomber jacket or...

Okay, so you have-

Yes, yes

... but have you always been so adverse to color, or did you wear, was there times where you were more experimental?

I mean, I know my f- first time in Berghain, I'm 17, and I wore a yellow T-shirt, but this is a while ago. I think the last maybe 11, 12 years I've been wearing black and white. Why are you laughing? [laughs]

Yellow, just yellow T-shirt is crazy.

Yeah, I just remember that.

What, what, what's-

It was from Zara

... okay, just a r- okay, just a regular yellow T-shirt. I didn't know.

You got into Berghain underage in a Zara T-shirt?

The outfit was crazier than that. It was also Cheap Monday jeans, skinny jeans.

Okay.

And then I don't know-

Of course

... if you guys remember this, people putting studs on their Converse.

Of course.

Like, on the side.

Jesus.

So it's DIY.

Okay, so you showed up to Berghain underage dressed like Wiz Khalifa. [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs] No, no, there's more. It was also-

[laughs]

... Kate Moss Topshop collaboration fake leather jacket.

Oh.

Oh, of course. Now, I do remember-

Oh

... the Kate Moss Topshop-

Shut it down

... collaboration is a, is a time-honored hot chick-

It was epic

... heads ain't got these

... you had to have something.

You had to have something.

Mm-hmm.

And then an American Apparel skinny scarf that I stole.

Okay.

Damn.

It was, like, a vibe.

Okay, this is giving 2007, not 2017, I will say.

What color, what color were the Converse, though? Just a black and white classic?

Well, they were s- over, like, s- not tiny studs, like, just, like, these square, gigantic. So it was just silver on the outside.

It was like a disco ball Converse.

Yeah, there might have also been, like, a lyric s-

Okay

... written on the sole on the side. Like, it was bad.

Like, like lyrics that you wrote yourself?

Yes.

[laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

This, okay.

I was 17.

But you got in. What drugs did you do when you got inside?

Uh-I'm not sure if I did any. I was just pretending to, like, know where I was. Like, I was with people and pretended it wasn't my first time in there.

Smart.

So which, which verse from Black Skinhead did you write on your shoes?

I don't-

[laughs]

[laughs]

I don't know what it was.

This is cool, though. I'm gla- okay, but what is it-

Thank you

... what led you, what led you to this decision to, to sort of erase color from your wardrobe? The simplicity, or does it express who you are?

I don't know. I think also I get, I get this question a lot, and I make up an answer every time. At this point, it just, it makes my life really-

Easy

... easy.

Yeah, I like it.

You know?

I think it's cool.

I think it's also a branding thing, then it's also, as an influencer, brands try to dress you the entire time, and you, there's a lot of stuff that maybe you don't wanna wear, even for a paycheck, and that makes it really easy 'cause it cuts out 90% of things. And I think everybody also has their filter.

Oh.

Yours might be, like, a silhouette or a material, and mine is just that.

So do you think, though, if a br- all right-

Hmm

... so if a brand comes to you and is like, "We wanna..." They know that... It's like they know you're only gonna wear black or white, so they don't bring you any of that-

Mm-hmm

... mess. So it, it-

Yeah

... that's a, that's genius, actually, 'cause that starts from a nice place.

It starts from a nice place. It cuts out a lot of-

Yeah [laughs]

... not so nice stuff.

Yeah.

Like bad clothes. Okay.

I hate not so nice stuff. That's one thing I'm personally really good at.

Yeah, Chris, do we have any-

I hate not so nice stuff

... do we have any hard lines with our fashion that we say, say no to, with our dressings?

I, I mean, there was a time recently, Jason, where I think we were both told we were going to be dressed, and then we got there, and I was like, "I ain't wearing fucking Amiri. Y'all are out of your goddamn mind."

I mean, yeah, Amiri has to pay you. [laughs]

[laughs]

But people... But no, the vi- the vibe was sorta like... I, I forget th- though that, like, celebrities, like actors, are just vessels. They don't give a fuck. They're like-

Mm-hmm

... "Put it on. I l- everything looks good on me," 'cause I'm-

They're like, "Amiri? I've heard of that. Cool"

Like, I'll wear anything that my stylist tells me to. I like, I mean, o- obviously they have opinions. They like some stuff more than others.

Not all of them have opinions.

[laughs]

But I'm saying they don't have, like, they don't have fucked up, twisted, like, "I could never wear that."

Mm.

You know what I mean? It's, like, made up shit. Like, the thought of wearing Kith is crazy to me, but, like, it's not that big of a deal for anybody else, you know what I mean?

Kith-

It's like a s-

Kith... Wait. Kith also is its own line. I, I th-

Yeah, that's what most of their business is, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. The whole, the whole f- bottom floor of the store in SoHo now is their own brand.

Is it expensive or, like, merch?

It's... No, no, it's much too expensive for what it is. It's both.

Expensive merch.

I mean, you-

Okay

... but you can get, you can get merch, but you can also get, like-

It's like ALD prices probably.

Yeah, yeah. It's the same shit. It's the same idea, I think.

Everything [laughs] I know about Kith I learned against my will. [laughs]

[laughs]

Yeah. No, no, no, I get that. But I think we all have these-

And ALD

... mental hangup, hang ups on brands that are, aren't necessar- like, if I told that to someone, they'd be like, "You're insane."

Mm-hmm.

Like-

Who cares?

Like, "What do you mean? This Rhude jacket is cool. I don't get it."

Yeah, like, that, that would happen to many m- it... I just, I, I've told this story before, but I once took my dad to get a pair of running shoes for his birthday, and we went to the running store. And he just bought the shoes that were best for him based on the recommendations without brand consideration. And I was like, "Wow, this is the most freeing thing I've-"

Must be nice.

Yeah, I was like, "That's insane. I can only buy Nike. That's psycho. What are you... You're buying Brooks?"

[laughs]

"You're my dad. Like, come on." And it was like, "Well, what?" He said, "These are the best for my gait. Like, I'm, I'm gonna buy th-" And it was just-

I think that's a better way to be.

Well, prison is-

You're not... Being a brand whore is worse than that.

Way better way. Way better way to be. No, no, I'm, I'm saying I'm jealous. I'm, I'm jealous.

But we all... I mean, maybe you should start exercising, and you're like, "Oh, maybe this, this Coach bag isn't so bad. Maybe I can put the Birkin down for this dinner."

Oh, Brenda's taken, Brenda's taken a Coach check before.

[laughs]

Let's not be crazy. She's wearing that whole dinosaur or something.

Brenda, Brenda, your camera went frozen again it seems like.

[laughs]

I've noticed that. [laughs]

Wait, the question is, have I w- worn Coach?

The question is, how much would it cost for you to wear Coach?

Um, like, show attendance and getting dressed, and then it depends if you have a deliverable. Like, is there, like, a post?

Well, all right, we, we got a post on grid. You gotta go to the show. You gotta wear the stuff.

Six months, six months lives on the grid, dinner, show, head-to-toe look.

50.

Okay. And you can get 50, though.

I'm also... That, that isn't an insult. Like, people get paid a lot-

Yeah

... you know, to go to shows in the US.

Everyone who works at Coach listens to this podcast, so you should be g- be getting an offer-

I think 50-

... in an email soon

... I think 50 is pretty reasonable, but, 'cause you'll do it with a damn smile on your face.

Well, I didn't wanna, I didn't want to say anything shitty, but-

You didn't wanna say 100, but it would be 100.

Oh my God. Would be... [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

Well, how do you... Do you... You have an agent I'm sure.

Yes.

So how involved in negotiations are you? Or are you pretty open to kind of what comes to the table?

I'm not in the nego- negotiations at all. I don't know if you guys are, if, if this is, like, a heated topic, agencies and having management.

I won't call it heated. I'll call it warm.

My agent is my first ever agent, and they're also my manager, so it's the same thing. They're in Paris. Um, I give up 20%.

Sure.

And the client only gets to speak to me once there's a contract on the table.

Mm-hmm.

I just, actually, they, New York Magazine just did a story about our agent, Max, and his company, Brigade. And-

Mm-hmm

... I talked to the reporter about it, and I was just like, I didn't realize, I think because Jason and I are adults and we've been on the other side of it so many times, that I didn't necessarily realize how valuable it was to never deal with anything.

Oh my God. I mean, it's like lifetime.

[laughs]

I think especially when I see girls next to me and their boyfriend has to do the thing, and you're, you're involved with everything. You're also... People have no idea what they're doing, you know? Of course, our jobs are all kind of invented and maybe didn't exist 20 years ago, but I think it's good to get experts on this.

I... No, I agree. I mean-

Mm-hmm

... 'cause when I was in the music business, it was a whole f- everybody took... You know, I was just used to that idea. I was just on the other side of it. Like, I was the one making the percentage, and I was always like, "Am I, am I worth it?" [laughs] Like, I don't know.

[laughs]

Like, I feel like I am, but maybe I'm not. But now-

Right

... I feel like it's very worth it, you know?

No, I mean, and b- between influencers or anyone or a talent, it's a never-ending story. Are you happy with yours? Are you happy with this? Like, what are you... But you are sitting, it might be as simple as a brand dinner, and everyone around you has a different deal, you know? Some people, like, they didn't even know they could-

Mm

... ask for a car. Some people don't have... You know? So and then you see e- someone else is getting paid-

[laughs]

... the 10K even though the brand says-

Wait, let me write that down. You can ask for a car.

Hold on.

Yeah, I need... Hold on.

Not the Uber code.

Yeah, so-

I was planning on drunk driving to the Le Labo dinner next week, but interesting.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Brands have also different pools of money that they can pull from, so they might say, "We're, we're only able to, to pay this rate," but then-

Like based on race?

Exactly.

Oh, rate.

Ex-

Got it. Okay.

Based on rateBut they, Brenda is not laughing.

[laughs]

But then there's also the budget-

We have a different pool for you.

There's a different pool.

[laughs]

There's also the budget for accommodation-

[laughs]

... and flights. They take that from me completely. So I think not having management-

Ugh

... is so crazy.

All right. All right, Brenda, when's the last time, when's the last time you flew in Comfort Plus?

What's Comfort Plus?

[laughs] That's where, that's where you go, uh, okay, Brenda, that's where you walk-

I'm not making-

... on the airplane and you turn right instead of left

... every US airline has this different thing where something's Polaris-

All right, premium comfort

... something's-

I'm saying when it... I'm, no, I, we don't, we don't talk about United on this podcast. I'm saying when's the last time you flew-

Oh my God, you guys are Delta people?

What is this Comfort Plus you have told me? [laughs]

I think besides the check-in, the three airlines do not compete on anything.

What do you want? What's your number one?

I think they're all the same.

But what, you have to have loyalty to one because it makes your life easier.

Oh, I'm a Lufthansa girl.

Okay. Well, that makes sense based on your, based on-

Yeah, location

... your geographical location. But when are you moving to a-

Love Swiss Airlines too. When am I moving to the US? Not right now.

Why not? It's fine. It's all good, bro. Nothing's going on.

It's all good. [laughs]

What do you mean? Nothing's going on over here.

The news are, like, blown out of proportion.

[laughs]

Okay. Well then, how does Isaac like living in Berlin?

I mean, he likes my friends, but Berlin is also... I, I, yeah.

[laughs]

I've come around on it.

Really?

Publicly.

Publicly. [laughs]

What, what do you mean Berlin is also, yeah? Could you say more?

But where are you from?

It's depressing-

Are you from, like, Stuttgart?

... six months of the year and really dark. I was born in Hamburg.

Hamburg.

But I only lived there the first, like, two years of my life.

To be fair, Berlin's depressing year-round. I just have found a way to like it. I don't know if the... I, I just think, like, the romanticizing of, like, "Well, we get to drink in the park when it's not dark and snowing" is not enough for me.

Yeah. I get it.

Yeah. If you're homeless, you can do that anywhere.

Did you finish your apartment?

I don't want to talk about it.

[laughs]

No, I'm in this, like, crazy renovation process since two years.

I was following-

It's all-

I was following along, I was following along with your renovation process on the World Wide Web, so I thought I would check in.

Are you vlogging the reno?

No, I'm not vlogging the reno. I do not have, like, a Nordic not steel yet.

[laughs]

I, the dry walls are in. I, I bought an apartment that was, like, ready to move in and then I ripped everything out. And-

Mm-hmm

... I think when you buy, everyone kind of trauma dumps onto you of all the things that went wrong.

Yeah.

And you're thinking, "That's them. That's not me" and then it's you.

Okay.

Yeah.

So you're saying the, the fact that you wanted, I don't know, a, a two-bedroom apartment that every surface was stainless steel is c- causing some delays?

Yes.

[laughs]

And mirrors. There's a lot of mirrors.

Okay. So you, so h- what do you think... Okay, so you've had it for two years, and I don't wanna-

Mm-hmm

... obviously, I don't wanna, you know, a sore subject. What do you think the real timeline is for, let's say, move-in?

I'm hoping spring/summer.

Okay. SS, [laughs] SS26?

SS, Brenda's moving in.

20- 26 or 27?

26.

Okay. So just a simple little two and a half year installing of some mirrors-

Yeah

... and drywall. Got it. Okay.

I gotta say, if I was your, if I was your German contractor, I would be scared out of my Timberlands. I would not want to be dealing with your ass. [laughs]

I travel so much that I, like, check in every two weeks, so I think I've also, like, let it, let things slide for two years, but I've been on it.

Mm-hmm. You need a, you need a, you need a local, you need a local project manager.

Crack the whip.

Yeah. I do, I do have one now.

All right. So you're in Copenhagen, which I had to miss this year because we were supposed to be doing something that canceled last minute.

I saw you o-

[laughs]

Okay.

I do, but we, we... I literally, there was a thing that was supposed to happen maybe today actually and, or tomorrow, and then it last minute-

Shout out to our Net-a-Porter family.

You're like, "I actually have a huge scandal coming out tomorrow," so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was in a Safdie Brothers movie. I didn't want to talk about it, but.

[laughs]

No, but so-

I was only operating the boom. I don't know what you're talking about.

But you're staying at a much nicer hotel than I stay in because I'm, I think the brand is, is hosting you, not maybe the, the Fashion Week itself.

Our Copenhagen hotel did look a little different than yours.

Are you at V- Villa?

This is Villa.

I love Villa.

Mm-hmm.

I love Villa. You get up for breakfast, all the baddie influencers are doing videos in the lobby, hair done, makeup done.

No, I'm, yeah, I'm headphones in. But it's kind of this, like, vibe lobby. Like, you get in and it's, like, music playing and a DJ each time.

Yeah.

So I, I don't know. I don't love it. But yeah, I'm here for a job.

Okay. And do you l- you, do you like Copenhagen in general?

I j- I mean, it's January.

Sure.

[laughs]

I mean, it's kind of the same everywhere unless you go to fucking Hawaii.

It, it's snowing outside. Yeah.

I mean, I understand.

Are you, are you waiting-

Yeah

... until after the job to eat?

I did the Copenhagen Airport Joe & The Juice.

Yes.

Jason lo-

Two panini to go

... Jason loves that nasty shit. I don't know why you guys eat that cardboard.

I don't lo- no, I don't love it. I kn- I think the juice is very watered down, right?

Probably, yeah.

Well, to, to save money. Yeah. It's not, you're not gonna get the pure beet.

But, I mean, when it, when it's between that and McDonald's, you know, it's not that, you know-

Exactly.

I always say the Copenhagen Airport-

It's, it's nice to get a juice, some ginger, some turmeric

... Copenhagen Airport has good selections actually-

That's what I got

... as far as food. I mean, if you want to be, if you want, like, a bread-based anything, you know?

Do you wanna split the G and have a nice pretzel? It's great, great spot to do that.

They got the buns. How many buns are you gonna have? None?

Buns is, like, what exactly?

It's, like, a little piece of bread that... It's, like, a sandwich that has butter and cheese inside of it.

I'm having none.

[laughs] Whatever you just said, I'm having none of that.

So what does the day-to-day look like? Are you just having hot water until 3:00 PM? Like, what are we talking about here?

Do you think I'm, like, dieting?

No, I just, you-

So you think I look skinny?

[laughs]

Brenda, you're starting to look scary skinny.

You've, you've responded to all food questions like-

I've never seen you smile so big in this entire hour conversation than when I just said that right now. [laughs]

You said no, you said no to all food conversation, so I just wanted to know when it was going down, you know?

When is the chia injection going on?

Uh, no, I'm having, I'm, I'm ha- I'm hav- [laughs] I'm having din- the chia is soaking already.

[laughs]

I'm having dinner after this.

Okay.

Okay, you're having dinner after this. Okay. At, at a, at a Copenhagen hotspot, I'm sure.

I think so.

Okay. Is Isaac there?

He's not there. He flew home to shoot a campaign.

Wow, must be nice. Do you guys compete over who's making more m- more money, or is it, do you guys not talk about it?

No, we... I mean, not a competition, but I think US market-Pays a little bit more

Oh, interesting. So, oh, oh, inter- interesting. So you're- okay

We don't need, we don't need qualifiers here, Brenda, you know?

You just, yeah, you can't quali- you just took the L publicly. Big up to our boy Isaac.

Look, also the US dollar is taking a shit this week, so I think it all evens out in the wash.

In America, it's nice for the man to be the breadwinner. Even if you're carb-free.

No, I'm, I'm, like, pretty, I'm pretty up there, but it's also I work in luxury, you know?

[laughs]

So, luxury doesn't pay as much as commercial stuff.

That's true.

Yeah.

But it's cool that you said, "I- I'm pretty up there."

But, yeah.

The shade. The shade is too good. [laughs]

I'm pretty up there.

The shade towards who? No.

Well, I work in luxury. It's more-

No, it sucks

... that, it's just different.

Like, I ch- I picked my poison, but luxury-

Yeah

... doesn't pay.

Lowest common denominator pays the most, and then the top of the top, we're doing it all for, you know, we, we took our own PJ to the show 'cause we're not getting paid.

We do it for the love of the game. So, are you going, are you going to Paris after this?

I just came, I just came from Paris today. But yeah, like, a Paris Fashion Week is not a week where I make money, 'cause I don't go to the shows where you get paid for-

Mm-hmm

... attendance.

Sure.

You go to the shows where you should be so lucky to be invited to some of these shows.

So lucky.

[laughs] I'm feeling blessed by my Chanel family.

Whereas the other, the influencer who stood up in the second row, she should not be invited next year.

I think she will be.

Okay. Let's, let's do a little, let's do a little topical stuff.

Okay. Are you getting rid of me?

No, no, no.

I don't have, I don't see the o- the time. Okay.

We'll give you a countdown, don't worry. I'll-

Mm-hmm.

Um, do you think that the Bezos family is gonna buy Vogue?

I felt like the Condé Nast rumor died down last year, and I don't know if it's just picking back up because Anna Wintour and them are driving in, in the same car to a show. Like, I don't, like, where is this coming back from?

I think that's all it takes for that rumor to-

Okay. Right

... persist.

Uh, I don't know if he really is interested. He's already in this inner circle, you know, for-

Mm-hmm

... for hosting the Met Gala, or paying for the Met Gala, whatever.

But would he, would he buy it to appease his wife, to give her something to do?

Does she not work?

[laughs]

Oh, I don't think so. I don't think so. What, you think she's pack- you think she's packing your fucking phone case in Amazon?

I think she's retired. She's a retired, um, weather girl.

On the Squid Row.

Well, I mean, I g- I guess-

Yeah, she's the Squid-

Okay, then another question. Why do you think Anna Wintour would hang out with Lauren Sánchez in public if it wasn't because she had to try and get some money?

I think she got her money for the Met Gala. I think Anna Wintour will stop at nothing to fund this thing-

Yeah

... which is amazing, the Costume Institute. So, I, yeah, I think that's why they're hanging out.

I also think that if you need money for things like that, there's only so many people that have it, and a lot of those people are the worst people in the world.

Yeah.

[laughs]

I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm seeing, I'm not, like, a Bezos defender here at all, but I'm seeing all these videos about them, like, "Cannot believe these classless people are the VICs at these shows." Who else do you think the VICs at couture shows are?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I don't ask, I don't ask these Russian gentlemen-

Look-

... how they earn their money. But-

I sat front row at Philipp Plein and it was a bunch of gray-

You did?

No, no. [laughs]

[laughs]

No, but we had the, we had the God on our podcast a couple years ago.

Yeah, we had him on the sh-

He was so sick.

Amazing.

Oh, I don't think I listened.

Amazing. Le- legend.

Okay.

Okay, who do you think should be the editor of Vogue? I mean, sorry, who, the editor of GQ. Who do you think should be the editor of GQ?

I was thinking about this, what I even remember from last year's GQ content or anything. I think it was Sam Heyn saying to Hailey Bieber, like, "Hailey, you've got a fit on." Did you see that video?

I w- I wouldn't even be able to have words come out of my mouth.

[laughs]

So, I don't know.

It was amazing. It was amazing. And then I remember the Taylor Swift boyfriend cover.

Travis Kelce.

Yes. But it was shot by Ryan McGinley-

Ryan McGinley

... so no one said anything, because we love Ryan McGinley. [laughs]

I actually, I actually like the picture of him-

Oh, you did- did say something?

... with the thing.

The alligator?

Sh- no, shooting out of the water I thought was funny.

The little, the jet pack.

Yeah, like, where he's like sh-

No, it was funny. Like, it was funny.

Yeah. [laughs] I think you have to be funny with him, 'cause if you try to make him sexy, it's gonna be funny, in a bad way.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

You lean into the bad taste.

Yes.

It's gonna be bad in a bad way.

Yes.

I don't know what else I remember, so I'm really not an expert in this. I think at this point, this business is keeping advertiser money, and Condé Nast is really moving into events, right? Making money with big spectacles, the Super Bowl show, the whatever show. So, I think it has to be someone that understands that guys, but also can talk to clients and secure money.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That's it. I bet, I, I love that Lauren is on, like, Campaign For You. I think she's making some really valid points. Are you cutting this stuff out of the podcast?

No.

No.

Okay.

Yeah, Chris, you were on Lauren's pod this morning. I was listening on my dog walk, but I didn't get a chance to get to the part where you were talk- she was talking to you about GQ editing.

Oh, we didn't, we didn't talk about that.

Oh. I thought I saw it in the show notes. My bad.

No, we talked about the, I'm, 'cause I'm gonna happen to be in San Francisco for the Thom Browne thing. So, I was ex- 'cause I think the Super Bowl thing-

I just got an invite today. Should I cruise?

Yeah, come. I mean, it's, it's, I- I think the g- I don't, the Super Bowl, uh, there's sort of these tentpole events all over the world where money is, and Super Bowl is one of them.

Mm-hmm.

And it feels like a really easy thing for GQ to, like, plug into.

Mm-hmm.

And, like, obv- like, Thom Browne has a lot of history with football. I've thrown several touchdowns while wearing Thom Browne in my life, so I feel like it's-

As one does.

I think that, I think you're right, though. I think it is, like, a business thing. You know what I mean? It's like, you have to have good ideas, but it's also, like, how do we keep the lights on?

Yeah.

Well, I guess now, now that being, uh, the editor-in-chief of a fashion magazine means being more or less a club promoter, I feel like Chris is primed and ready. Even I have a good chi- a good, good shot at this.

Have they contacted you?

No. No, no, no.

Chris wouldn't say. Chris wouldn't say.

That's ridiculous. Yeah, I'm... Okay

Or would he

Chris shaking his head

I'm-

Oh, look at Chris. Chris.

I would love that. I th- I think you have to be realistic at what this job is, and I think everybody in, in journalism is eyeing these few people who are really great writers. But I agree that this is a, a serious business, and the money is now not coming necessarily from print advertisement, you know?

Yeah, no.

Yeah.

Magazines are post writing now.

But I think that, but I dis- I think that that's the thing. I think that, like, as long as you can make the money, then the writing can actually be better, if that makes sense.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, if you buy your- you, you, you buy yourself the license to make it really good if you can keep the advertising dollars coming in and the clients happy.

Agree.

'Cause I, I think that's the... 'Cause I just think there's so many stories that came out this year that felt, like, appropriate for GQ that were other places.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean? And it's like-

If we start being able to pay these writers 10 grand a story, uh, like how we were back in the heyday, we can get fucking Otessa and Klosterman and everyone writing all these great stories-

Ladies

... all the time and every fucking-

Klosterman, Klosterman's busy being... Anybody that's on The Ringer doesn't wanna write. They can just talk. I get it.

Okay, speaking of, uh, nothing, you, you said the ideal level of fame is 99% of people don't know who you are, and 1% either hate you or are obsessed with what you do. Follow-up question, is that 1% or maybe .5% of people who are obsessed with you enough to make you as rich as you wanna be?

I think so.

Okay.

I, I think it's really worth being a niche internet micro-celebrity.

Yeah, I agree.

How often do you g- how often do you get stopped on the street? You have such an iconic look, it's so easy to spot you.

I think in the hot spots, like during Fashion Week in Paris-

Mm-hmm

... that happens a few times a day. But on my av- in my average, like-

What kind? But is it, is it chicks or is it dudes?

Both, both.

Gay or straight?

I would say mostly gay.

Okay.

[laughs]

Mm-hmm.

Straight guys, they'll, they'll be, uh, they'll, they'll, they'll admire your work from afar perhaps.

I have some br- I have some bros in there, so I know that my Instagram following is actually 30% male, which is quite a lot for a female-

So-

... like fashion influencer.

So, yeah, yeah. They're, they're way- yeah, they're definitely there for the content, you know what I mean? [laughs]

They're reading the articles.

Yeah. [laughs]

They're, they're tabby lovers.

Yeah, they just love, "I just love Hermès. Can you tell me more about it, like the history?"

Exactly. [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

I think that's so interesting that textile-

We have a li- [laughs] yeah.

[laughs]

So what's... That weave is super cool. Can you-

Okay, so, so you think that that being that low, I mean, it, it's enough? Be- uh, to me, I'm wondering, like, I guess that's sort of where Chris and I are as well.

Niche internet celebrities?

Yeah.

No, I, I don't think that at all. I think that w- I, I don't... I think you're a more visual... It's more visual with you, I think, which makes it easier.

And you guys are like, "We have something to say"? [laughs]

No, I'm just saying that it's not a, it's... I, no, I just mean our faces aren't-

Damn, Chris, that's fucked up

... aren't part of it a lot of the time, is what I'm saying.

I think every person working from themselves and getting paid from multiple things, whether that's appearances or content or whatever, should evaluate every few months what it is that they're getting paid for.

Mm.

Is it followers? Is it attachment to, you know, you're at Charli XCX's wedding? Is it because you have something to say? Is it be- so I think-

Jealous

... you have to... Yeah, 100%.

[laughs]

I think you have to be aware of, like, what brings you money.

Right, what, like, what is my value? W- what-

Yeah

... what are people-

Like, what am I selling here?

Yeah. Why are brands-

Great question

... giving me money? Be- it's because we're, we're influential people as influencers.

Yeah, exactly, but it, it is that, right? So, like, a PR person goes on your Instagram or whatever and sees the followed by 349 people, like, that is a currency.

Mm-hmm.

It doesn't pay that well-

That's true

... unfortunately, but yeah, I guess it is.

It doesn't?

Fuck no.

[laughs]

This shit is a jo- this shit is a joke.

And then, but, but so you're like, we have all these mutual followers, they're tall, can DJ with no shirt on, the value starts going up and up, right?

For sure.

Mm-hmm.

Well, then you need to have a talk with your manager 'cause if the numbers aren't up there.

Mm-hmm.

I just, I'm joking. I just think there's a level of whoring it out that I'm personally not willing to do, and that's where you really unlock the money I think.

Like when you're walking red carpet for Target?

Yeah, like I just... I, I'll do a lot of stuff, but I ain't gonna... I, I ain't really about posting pictures of myself on the internet. I just can't.

Mm-hmm.

It, it's a mental blo- I would like to get there to some extent because I do feel like it's easy money.

Yeah.

But I just, I'm too old. I started too, I'm too old.

To, like, c- climb your cringe mountain?

[laughs]

No, I climb cringe mountain every fucking day. We do this podcast three times a week. For, I'm at the top of cringe. I'm putting my flag-

But you g- but, like, a selfie, like, that's too much.

I've never posted a selfie on the internet in my entire life.

And what did that get you?

Nothing.

[laughs]

That's my whole point. That's my whole point. I'm like, I'm not... I don't think I'm above it, I think I have personal issues that stop me from doing it.

Are you seeing something about it?

Uh, seeing some-

Someone?

Someone? Uh, no, I don't. I'm not paying a therapist $300 an hour to talk about selfies.

It is so expensive in America. Mine is €100, and that's already a luxury.

Oh, in Germany.

Not, not with our friends at BetterHelp.

You should try BetterHelp. It's cheap. Use h- code HOWLONG. How, how often do you go? I didn't think German people did that. I thought you guys were pretty closed off.

No, I d- I do.

Yeah, but you're-

I do

... you're, you're evolved.

You're [laughs] we can tell.

You need it, of course. I'm not saying that.

[laughs]

I'm just saying you're evolved, I think. You're not s- you're not stuck in some weird-

You're not the average kraut who's-

German tradition

... drinking it all down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What is up with this book you made?

Do you guys... I still have some if you, if you want, if you want some. I made a book of iPhone pictures. It's 700 pages. It's called Branded. I do this world sh- word spiel around my name, so my podcast is called Brand Awareness.

Yes.

Very clever, I know.

Mm-hmm. [laughs]

And it is just I wanted to do something, and then I found someone who was good with books.

[laughs] I wanted to do something.

I wanted to do something.

[laughs]

Remember when you used to, people used to print calendars with pictures for their families over Chri-

Yes

... like, you got the emails. So I just wanted to do-

Mm-hmm

... something.

Okay, so how many of these pictures are you in?

Not a lot. There's different-Um, chapters and one is mirror selfies, quite literal. So maybe out of the 700, maybe 50.

[laughs]

Oh, okay. That's, that's-

Maybe more. Actually, I should know this

... That's a pretty good-

50 to 100.

How much did this book retail for, and how many have you sold? 'Cause I feel like you sold a lot of them.

Um, so there's no sponsors or anything. I vouched for myself to put 10% of my income towards, not charity, my own marketing.

[laughs]

So that is, like, flights, flying yourself to Fashion Week-

[laughs]

... but also, like, special projects. Like, oh, he really is laughing at this one.

I just-

I'm trying to make fun of myself.

Are you... It's working. It's good.

Okay.

10% of all revenue into the Brenda-

Yes

... special projects-

Yes

... folder.

So my max was like, "Okay, I wanna do a book," and then I just, I made it as nice quality but didn't wanna go over 12K to spend on it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I was able to print 500, and they're mostly gone.

So did you make your money back?

Yes.

Okay.

There you go. That's a W then. That's a W then. And you did some events too, didn't you?

Yes. I did one in Paris, Antwerp and Brussels, and in New York at Climax Books.

You gotta hit your market. I love Antwerp. You know what I mean? You gotta really... That's, that's really your zone.

Move a lot of units in twerp. [laughs]

'Cause the, the followers, I don't wanna say fans, but the audience is so different, and New York was the last one. And for example, in Antwerp, I had so many people just coming. They're fashion students and they were like, "I can't afford it, but I'm just here to, you know, to support." And in New York it was $10 more expensive, no questions asked. Like, people... There wasn't even a price, and people were just beep, beep with their Apple Pay.

[laughs] Right. Right.

Insane.

Like me at the Coach store.

Yeah.

It was... Yeah.

Jason said, "Throw it in the bag, shorty. I got, I got dinosaur. Give me a T-Rex."

They were-

No problem

... fans with Hermes bags. It was wild.

I feel like Climax, I feel like Climax also, that's the vibe. Although it's, you... Like, you're there to cop, you know what I mean?

Oh, yeah.

I, I can't wear a cropped, I can't wi- wear a cropped sweatshirt, but I, I really want one.

Hm. That's why I've never been.

Really want one. All right, Brenda, thank you for joining us. Where can they find you on the, uh, Instagram application?

Brenda# everywhere.

Okay. Brenda# everywhere. And the pod- the podcast where you just goes off the dome straight into the mic?

BrendAwareness.

And that is available on, on all streaming platforms, I'm sure.

No, I'm just on Spotify and Apple. I don't know how to... I don't know where else.

Those are the only two.

Okay.

Those are the only two that matter.

What's, what's-

Those are the only two that matter

... where are you bigger?

Used... U- Apple used to be, like, the dominant one, and now Spotify has kinda taken over.

I mean, Apple sort of invented podcasting.

That's what I was thinking, but people are very particular. Mine is mostly Spotify as well.

But we hope you had fun, Brenda. Thanks for talking to us.

Thank you. Yeah.

Yes.

It's a pleasure.

Once you, uh, once you start having guests on your pod, we'll, we'll come and do it-

Yes, please

... on the riverside.

I really... Yeah. I'm, I'm... Within the next three months. I'm giving myself three months.

Damn, I would hate to see what your moleskin looks like. It's probably so fucking-

Oh, my God, it's go- It looks like Kai Cenat's Vivec book.

[laughs]

I cannot believe Lauren Sherman didn't know who Kai Cenat was. I was listening to your thing earlier.

I can. I thought it was the cool... It's cool as hell. She's like, "Who is that?" I'm like, "Man, I wish I didn't know."

Crazy.

Thank you, Brenda.

Have fun.

Bye, guys.

Later. Thank you.

[singing] For my theme song. Like my leather black jeans on. Like my by any means on. Pardon, I'm getting my scream on. Like enter the kingdom. Like but watch who you bring home. You see a Black man with a white woman at the top floor, they gonna come make you King Kong.

Now at Bakers, your points go even further. Use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump. Same points, more choices. And with low prices on fresh, quality food, plus digital and personalized offers tailored to how you shop, it all adds up to more ways to save. Because we know every dollar matters. That's why we're committed to making every shopping trip work harder for you. Bakers, fresh for everyone.