876. - Madi Diaz

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian, and they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world, and they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. [upbeat music] How Long Gone, I guess this is coming out on Friday post-Thanksgiving. Um, I, I know that Jason, you've been in the kitchen all morning I'm sure, or maybe you're in the garage. Is that where your turducken is getting prepared, or you, you got a different menu this year?

Still a little early. Little early for the turducken prep as it is, uh, 8:00, 8:45 AM, uh, day before. I'm not, I'm not gonna do any deep-fried turkeys. I'm not gonna do any turducks. I'm doing the, uh, Alison Roman turkey leg confit. She does it with, like, a chicken fat or duck fat, but I'm going ghee.

Wow, you're f- okay. Wow, I didn't know we could make Thanksgiving more obnoxious, but you and Alison Roman have found a way. Thank God.

Do you think ghee is obnoxious, Chris?

No, no, I'm just joking. I think-

I'll fucking kill you, bitch.

[laughs]

I, but I have one other th- what I am wor- as soon as I finish this pod, what I am gonna make before I do Pilates and then hit Cafe 2001 for a pecan pie, it's Chex Mix time, Chris.

Oh, okay. Now we're talking real shit.

See?

All right, well, if, if you need my s-

Your little fat ass perked up now, didn't it?

If, if you need my FedEx number, just let me know before it's all-

Mm. [laughs]

... before it's all gone. I don't want the dogs getting more than me, you know?

[laughs] No, no, no, don't worry. I'm not gonna give the dogs any Chex Mix. It's has way too much umami for their little, their minds to comprehend.

[laughs]

But be- you know, speaking of dogs eating adult food, Bean, my small dog, has been, has been taking a liking to coffee.

Like, like the smell or the actual...?

Like I'll, I'll be sitting on the couch with, you know, a little coffee table with my laptop and a, and a mug full of coffee, maybe a nice Click and Surf mug brought to you by publicannouncement.com.

Okay, okay.

What a newsletter. None of that Substack horseshit, right? But, uh, I'll get up, you know, go do something, go, you know, change my laundry over to the dryer or whatever. I look back-

Uh-huh. Uh-huh

... Bean's got her snout in the coffee mug [lip smacks] going to town.

So you're saying Bean's lapping up the bean. Bean is, is a cannibal-

That's right

... is what you're saying to me. [laughs] This is-

Yes. [laughs]

Bean's a practicing-

Sometimes a bean, uh-

[laughs]

... uh, Ar- Arabian Blend. [laughs]

Do you think, do you think something has happened in, in Brain's, uh, brain, Bean's old brain? Because I feel like you either like coffee or you don't. It's a weird thing to develop later in life.

You know, I don't know what it... I think, I think what it is is the, the milk is the, is the entry point. Milk is the gateway drug to the coffee.

I think of milk as more of a cat thing, though. But, but I guess dogs like it too.

Yeah, these, I mean, these dogs nowadays will eat anything. But also I have a-

[laughs]

... an odd suspicion that Bean is addicted, or, uh, well, not only addicted to caffeine as well as dairy, but I think she was raised by cats in, in her junkyard days.

Oh, so y- okay, okay. So she's not-

And I know our guest today is really vocal about dog and pet adoption and animal rights, so we'll save a little bit of it for her. I know you wanted to get into that kinda stuff. But yeah, I think, I think she was, she's like a dumpster dog and l- was, like, found behind a gas station somewhere deep in the valley. We don't talk about it.

So you think, so, so, so you think B- okay, so you think Bean could have been raised by wolves and in this case cats-

Yeah

... and that milk was part of their diet because she was just trying to fit in with her new family, her chosen family, much like our Thanksgiving.

Wow, that's so true. I love the chosen families. But yeah, I mean, I've heard it, it happens. I've seen accounts where, you know, dogs will meow and, and cats will be raised by dogs, and the cats will bark.

Bro, you, you don't... Uh, hold on. Hold on, hold on. If your cat meows, bro, you gotta-

No, if your dog meows. [laughs]

I'm sorry, if your, if your dog meows, you gotta take him out back and have a talk.

You think so?

You're saying, you're saying a male dog meowing? Uh, I, not in my house. That's crazy.

That's, that's too swagless is what you're saying.

I mean, you can date who, you can date whoever you want, but I'm not gonna let you meow-

[laughs]

... as a, as a dog. Like, I'm cool with whatever, I'm cool with whatever you wanna do, but the meowing is a little, is a little questionable.

Okay, so that's like when, when you, when you have a kid, you're gonna be like, "Adam and Steve, that's fine with me, but just none of that furry shit," is what, is kinda where you draw the line.

You, you have to draw the line somewhere is what I'm saying.

Mm-hmm.

With all, with all animals, humans.

You can have a butt plug, but there cannot be a tail attached to it, son.

[laughs]

I am so s- this is where I do have to put my foot down, okay?

You gotta, you gotta put your foot down. It's called-

You'll thank me later when you get older, boy

... it's called good parenting. But that's, I, I've, I did not know this, but it does make total sense. It's, it's like, it's like the white guy who was adopted, you know, and now he, he, he's taken on characteristics of, uh, his family.

Now he's speak- let, let the white boy speak a little.

Yeah, he's, he might have a, a, he might wear a durag. He might have a little fade, this little too, but he's, he's so ingrained, he earned it, that he gets a pass.

They let him cook.

They let him cook.

It's rare. It's rare when, when somebody's like, "You know what? I'm gonna do it. I'm a white guy who's gonna turn Black," and then have, and then actually have it work.

I know, and not be Drewski.

One in a million.

Not, we're talking about real life. We're not talking about comedic skits.

Yeah, yeah, the, we're not talking about one of your fun little TikToks. We're talking about something, something that transcends even a Chet Haze. It makes Chet Haze look like fucking-Net spend

[laughs]

I mean, we're talking about some real shit

Atlanta shit. I don't, h- honestly, I don't even know where else it happens to, in my view.

They got one in every hood, bro.

Well, no, they have one, but I just mean I feel like there's some places that are hotbeds, uh, for-

Of course

... for ca- for dogs drinking milk and [laughs] for, for white guys getting a pass.

[laughs]

There's, there's different hotbeds all over the world.

Yeah, I mean, even our, even our previous guest, W. David Marks, he's really acclimated into the Japanese society as well, right? Just imagine what he's, how he's talking when there's no white people around.

Oh, it's crazy. Oh, my God, I can't even imagine. He's, he's-

Imagine the code switchery

... he's letting it spray. I, it's, it's so quiet-

[laughs]

... in New York today. I was walking around earlier, and it's just, it's dead out there. Everybody's gone back to the Midwest to kind of-

Mm-hmm

... to, to show off their parents' kitchen.

[laughs]

Um, and it's gonna be, it's, I, I-

It's gonna be, it's gonna be white marble and-

Yeah

... tall fireplace mantel-

Yeah

... posting for the next 48 hours, huh?

There's nothing better than heading back home, going to your parents' seven-bedroom house on the golf course, getting a fucking Starbucks with your brother, taking the golf cart.

We're so random. We're drinking Starbucks.

[laughs] Taking the golf cart.

Can you believe it?

You live, you, I know you li-

Taking the golf cart

... you live in Bushwick, and you play, you play play, but when it's time to go home, we wanna see the real you, and I appreciate that. I appreciate that. That's one of the, my favorite content buckets, actually, is the-

What's the difference between playing and play playing, really quick? Sorry

... big difference, actually. I think, I think, I think play play is, is more of a fun approach where, a- and a new twist on regular play. Like, I think it's, I think it's more of a-

[laughs] Type shit

... I think-

Okay, period.

[laughs] Yeah, play play. But you know what I meant. You feel the difference. I know you felt the difference.

No, no, no.

I know you felt the difference.

Yeah, it, you, you feel it in your bloodstream. It's not necessarily possible to convey the, in words.

It is, it is tough to put it into, it is tough to put it in words.

It's on a cosmic level. You wouldn't get it.

But I'm, I'm leaving-

Well, you would

... I'm leaving tomorrow at 7:30 AM for Las Vegas, so I'm getting my, I'm getting my li-

Oh, thank God

... I'm getting all my ducks in a row. I had to go to Bank of America, take out a brick. You know what I'm saying? To, to-

[laughs]

... to get ready.

How much cheddar are you pulling for Vegas?

I'm not pulling any cheddar. I, I took out-

What the fuck?

I took out the normal 500. I don't, I don't have any... What would I do? I don't know how to gamble. Like, I literally, like, uh, Shiv was explaining gambling to me earlier. I, I don't know how...

[laughs]

I'm like, "So what are you saying?" They're saying roulette is the best chance of winning, is what they were explaining to me.

Yes.

Because there's so many things you can bet on and, and the odds, but again, I don't wanna go down this road. I think it's too dangerous for me.

No.

So I'll happily stick to the spa, the spas and, and gyms I'm used to.

[laughs]

[laughs] Versus the, I don't wanna go to, I don't wanna go to Vegas for-

Don't go chasing jackpots, Chris

... I don't wanna go to Vegas for 72 hours and come back, you know, smoking a pack of Pall Malls every day on the slots.

Mm-hmm.

You know, sitting, my face is sunburned from sitting at the Sex and the City slot machine for too many hours.

[laughs]

It's, it's not, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. I'm not willing to risk it all.

Suddenly you have, you've become a master sports gambler. You know, you have a lot of parlays running.

Imagine if I knew what a parlay was a- and that, and then I was able to make it work in my favor. Unbelievable.

You don't know what a parlay is, Chris? Oh, come on.

It's when you make several bets and they all hit, right?

Yes, yes, uh, exactly.

Okay. I feel like there's probably more nuance and detail to it. All of our gambling addicts, please chime in. [laughs] All of our-

No need to

... all of our-

No need to. Okay, so-

All of our people who have lost their families, please chime in.

[laughs] I, I like that you're doing Vegas Thanksgiving. Um, well, first of all, the stack, the gambling, you know, it's not for you. Just, just take the 500 cash, hopefully in ones, and then just give it to Alex and just say, "You know, it's your world, girl." Just like casino style.

It's, yeah, yeah. 'Cause there's-

She'll come into the room at the Aria or wherever y'all are staying at, just a bunch of ones all over the bed. "Ah, I can't believe this is my life."

This is so crazy.

You know?

I, I hate turkey. Yeah, I'm hoping that, 'cause we're going to Nobu on Thanksgiving, and I'm hoping they haven't...

[laughs] Thank God.

Do you think Nobu, do you think Nobu's tried to develop some sort of turkey sushi for the special occasion?

[laughs]

Do you think there's, like, a cranberry sauce marga- or like, like, tini?

You know, I'm, I just op- uh, Nobu on Thanksgiving. Uh, we are open for dinner on Thanksgiving with familiar favorites as well as new specials.

Okay.

I don't know if they're gonna say what those specials are.

I would like turkey tempura [laughs] with my, with my usual dipping sauce, please. [laughs]

I know that the, uh, the f- the Four Seasons Nobu, the Four Seasons Sensea.

Yeah.

They're, they're doing a herb roasted turkey breast and leg with traditional stuffing. Of course, the cranberry compote will have a yuzu guava.

Thank God. Thank God.

The-

Thank God

... and the, uh, the miso braised lamb shank will have a celery root puree with a gremolata.

Okay, so we're fi- we're finding ways to make it our own.

It's a, yeah, it's a, there's a good, it's like we're going to do maple roasted yams and whatever, but it's going to have flavors of the Orient woven in nicely-

Of course

... I believe.

Of course. Yeah, I'm gonna, yeah, we're doing a, the rare Nobu Carbone B2B. Um, that's, y- you know.

Jesus.

I feel like th- that's what you have to do when you're going here. So I'm, I'm, I'm looking forward to it, actually.

Wait, is it, that's not the same day. Those are, that's one day and then the next day.

No, no, no. I, no, no, no.

Okay.

Yeah, no. I'm not that crazy. I'm not a food influencer. I'm not that. I'm not the, I'm not the guy in Japan eating 16 fucking pancakes in one day. Um-

You're not gonna do a little bang bang.

I'm not gonna do a little bang bang, but yeah, I'm looking forward to it, and the weather's not gonna be, I think the weather's not that warm, which is, you know, that's upsetting, but we'll, we'll work past that.

I mean, it gets colder in Vegas than it does in LA during these special little months. I think we're gonna go down to, uh, Laguna, actually.

Nice. I mean, I feel like, I feel like it's the best time to go there 'cause there's no weddings.

No weddings. It's too cold to go in the water, but it's really good weather for looking at the beach.

Sure. There, that's two different, that's two different temps.

Yeah.

That really is two different temps.

I'm talking to my brother right now. He said he's eatingbiscuits and gravy right now.

Where is he? Is he in Michigan or is he in LA?

No, he's, he was at Bub and Grandma's. He had a meeting get pushed, so now he's eating fucking veteran-

I gotta go. I gotta go there. I gotta go there. I've never been there.

Dude, it's so good.

I know it's good. It's just, like, a little bit too far out of the way, but I, I, I want to go.

When, uh, when Paul comes to town and we hit Dunsmore for dinner, we'll do Bub's for lunch. They're right next door, just kinda knock it all out. Sounds good to you?

Oh, that's per- perfect. I can't wait to hang out on the block.

[laughs]

Uh, we have a guest today. Uh, Maddie Diaz is a, uh, singer-songwriter. Her, actually, her, her album... Damn, her album that she released last year was nominated for a Grammy, and she's already got a new one. Just churning it out.

She's a churner.

Came out in October, but she's a, she's a Nashville resident, which is always, uh, leads me to a lot of questions, um, because living there is a, a choice, even if you are a professional musician. I feel like it's a, it's a, it's a real lifestyle choice. But she did some time in LA too, and then left, so I feel like maybe she has some shit to talk about the East Side that we could get into. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's a, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

Three times a week, and I, I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, uh, Stateside.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's three times a week, and, and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say.

[laughs]

Give, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris, and sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself and that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over six million people globally are using it, and you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh. You know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, "Damn, I really am him." You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is betterH-E-L-P.com/howlong.

Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, "You're fine," you know, "Drink more water."

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly.

That's about it.

As if, as if I could drink more water, doctor. I, I don't get data. I don't get a game plan. I just get a pat on the ass and get out there and, and make it better. But SuperPower's doing something different. SuperPower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak. It's a simple blood draw, one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Uh, their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, and even environmental toxins. Ooh, ooh. So from disease prevention-

[laughs]

... to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go. SuperPower is more comprehensive and advanced system out there.

Make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with SuperPower. For a limited time, How Long Gone listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to superpower.com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership. That is code HOWLONG, and after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about SuperPower. Do us a favor if you could and tell them How Long Gone sent you, and that'll just support us. Thanks.

Oh, I think I did it. Can you hear me?

Yep.

Yes, yes.

Oh, I love that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

You love it when headphones work?

I really do. I mean, I, I-

[laughs]

[laughs] I'm not, I'm not, like, super tech bro. I do my very, very best. Uh, and currently I have, like, a light verb on my voice, uh, on my end, so that's just-

Hold-

You know, it's like-

When you say verb, you mean reverb? [laughs]

I do. I mean reverb. Sorry for the brief.

No, no, it's fine. It's fine.

I have to, I have to say, I, I know you're in the, in the industry, but I've, a- and I am only a, a mere outsider, but I've never heard reverb shortened before in my entire life.

You never heard of the verb, bro? [laughs]

[laughs]

I've... I mean, I've heard of the verb as in a kind of word, of course.

[laughs]

Do you call echo co?

Yeah, like where does it stop?

Oh my God. [laughs]

[laughs]

Honestly, if someone, if someone said verb to me, I would think reverb. I wouldn't think of, uh-

You wouldn't think of the word verb?

You know, the descriptor or the class. I wouldn't think, I wouldn't think in Mad Libs is what I'm saying.

You gotta touch grass. You gotta put that guitar down and get outside.

[laughs]

There, there's English majors. I know p- I know people at Nash-

I will not

... who are a little slow, but you can find somebody.

I will not do it.

And I, I will use my AI technology plugins to remove all the verb from your voice l- rendering you nice and clean and monotone. Don't worry.

Thank you so much, and with no descriptors. With no descriptors and with no-Judge, thank you

I, it'll be a vast lack of artifacts and dynamic range in your file, don't worry.

[laughs]

All right. All right, you guys gotta stop 'cause I don't know what you're talking about.

[laughs]

This is getting sexual in my mind, and I don't even know what's going on.

I, I mean, verb is the, is the sexy thing in my opinion. But yes.

It is.

Sorry. Thank you.

But what, I guess, is that the most ... I feel like reverb is the most known outside of the musician sphere as, like, a, a-

Top five effects, dead or alive. Reverb, gotta be number one

It's the only effect, it's the only effect-

[laughs]

... a, a regular person would know.

Ah.

Like m- I mean, what, what else is there? I, I don't even think I could make a big muff joke-

I mean-

... to somebody that just works at Target.

Does, do people know what delay is? You know what I mean? Like, I mean, that's what you said.

See, delay, I think delay is different 'cause it's a word that has a meaning. Like, we know what it means, so you can put it together with context clues.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I'm saying? Whereas reverb is a little bit of its own animal out there on the island.

That's true. You're right, you're right. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, delay you're like, "That's what I know," versus, like, what is a limiter or a, you know-

Right

... a compressor or-

Right

... chorus or saturation, et cetera.

Oh my God, you're just like, you're just throwing them out there.

Look.

I love it. [laughs]

I mean, as a, as a content creator, I have to know about all of these things.

Yeah, when you're on the mic, you know-

Yeah

... you need, you need the vocab. [laughs] You're hilarious.

That's true.

I mean, apparently I've never, I've never listened to our podcast, but it sounds good-

[laughs]

... from what I hear. So I'm, I'm happy that Jason knows these words that I don't know.

I use Ableton Live. And we just got an update, 12.3. It has stem separation. How do you feel about that, Maddy? Do you, are you familiar with this technology?

I love separation. And I will say, um, Chris [laughs] Chris-

Just like, are, are you talking about, like, divorce? Are you talking ... I'm talking about audio tracks.

[laughs] Yeah. I love, I love the separate, the separate entities.

Yes, yes.

Chris, your, your voice, your voice is, like, very close and, like, very kind of, you know, like, it's, like, right in my ear-

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

... hole. And Jason, I will say, like, y- I know, I can, I can feel the room that you're in, you know?

Mm.

So I like, I like that you guys are doing, like, a totally different thing. You know, you guys are, like, one brand together, but you're still separate entities.

Yeah, I, I'm in a room-

I love it

... that has a rug and a couch. I have wood right here. So there's, you know, it's a more, it's a more acoustic friendly space. Chris likes to live a little more brutal, minimalist kind of vibe.

We, we have concrete floors here, so it's not, it's not doing any favors-

Ah

... I would, I would guess.

Do you guys talk, do you guys talk texture before you guys got into the podcast business, or ... [laughs]

I try not to t- talk texture at all-

[laughs]

... unless it's about a-

[laughs]

... a pair of pants or something. I don't know.

I, I mean, I used to get angry at Chris's texture because it was just cement. Cement ceiling, cement wall, cement floor. And then, and then one, like, $11,000 couch.

[laughs]

And then, you know, that's about it, just... [laughs] So I would be like-

Offensive

... "Could you do anything?"

Offensive texture, really.

Any, let, let me get some-

He's making me, he's making me sound like we live, like, Condé West or something.

[laughs]

It's not that, it's not that good. Trust me, it's not that good.

Or like Rick Rubin, you know? [laughs]

He lives like Rick O- he lives like Rick Owens or Rick Rubin. It's, it's- [laughs]

The famous Rick. Okay.

But, uh, but that's, I think that's just kind of-

Yeah, the Ricks

... I think that so many people who live in Chris's neighborhood, you know, Chinatown, Manhattan, Times Square adjacent, that's, like, a podcast hub. So I almost know the text- like, it has a podcast texture that's more familiar to my ears than a stupid podcast studio at iHeartRadio with, like, you know, uh, glass walls and 4K cameras and shit. I like the sound of tenement housing and sirens and people yelling and shit.

Yeah, we, we keep it real. We keep it real, Maddy. We do it different than these other losers. We don't have a mothership.

You ever heard of Red Scare? It's kind of like that, but for dudes.

Yeah. [laughs]

But for dudes. Okay. Okay. Good. Okay.

Yeah, it's, it's just for guy- it's just for guys, you know, just some guy stuff.

Just a bunch of guys.

Just some guy stuff.

Like real guys.

Just guy stuff.

Real ones.

But I don't think that, I, I don't notice audio ... I'm, I'm famously not, um, a sound geek. Like, I don't, I can't tell the difference. I can tell the difference between, like, awful and good, but the above the, the, the good level, I don't think I can, I, I don't think I can tell the difference.

I feel like that's fai- fairly normal. My, I dated a guy actually for a while whose mo- this is bizarre. I don't even know what this is, but I have an ex whose mom cannot tell the difference between a raw vocal being, like, accompanied by just a piano and, like, a full band production. Like, she literally cannot hear the difference. It's the craziest thing-

Mm. Mm

... thing I've ever heard, and she just, she just doesn't have it.

Okay, so you're, you're ... Okay, so you're sending your, your ex almost mother-in-law-

Yeah. [laughs]

... some, some different versions of songs, and she's like, "These are great," and she doesn't notice the-

No idea.

Okay, so it'll be, you'll be like, "Here's an Elliot Smith song." It's, or I mean, one of your songs that's like you, a guitar, and a microphone.

Yeah, and like-

And then you're like, "Here's a Poly-"

Well, I am

... "Here's Polyphonic Spree-"

[laughs]

"... with a 12 piece orchestra, a harpist."

Yeah.

And they're like-

Nothing

... "I can't tell the difference between these two songs."

That's absolutely fascinating.

That's so cool. Bob Dylan on one end, Pink Floyd on the other, eh.

Yeah.

Same vibe.

Same exact song.

Does she, does she have any, does she, does she play music herse- like, does she have any interest in music? Or is it strictly her ears just work that way?

I think her ears just work that way. I mean, she should probably have training. [laughs]

Or her ears don't work that way. We should say that.

I'm just saying she's not a pianist herself is what I'm trying to say.

No, and that's probably, yeah, I think, I think that's probably for the best. [laughs]

Yeah, but people like to pretend. People like to pretend. I know so many managers. I'm like, "Bro, you're a fucking, you're an emailer." Like, "Get off the bo- get off the board."

[laughs]

[laughs]

That was always my ... When I managed a band-

Get off the board

... when I was a m- managed a band-

Back up

... th- there was like, "Oh, come, come listen to the m- mixes and the..." I'm like, "No, dude, send this shit to me when I'm do- when you're done-

[laughs]

... so I can go make us some money." Like, I don't, like-

[laughs]

... this ain't gonna do us any, me giving-

I got no input on the-

Yeah

... on the 1400 hertz DB ducking it through, you know, like-

They're like, oh, they're like, "You know who's mixing this?" I'm like, "I don't give a fuck if Lord Algae-

Right

... is mixing this, bro. Let's get this shit out. Let's go."

[laughs]

"Let's go."

Wow. Chris knows the-

Well, I only know 'cause-

Chris knows. Chris is like, "If you show me two, show me two stickers, I'll tell you which one to print. That's as far as I go."

That's, exactly. That's my skill level. That's my skill level. I think a lot of people out here faking it.

[laughs]

Like, they know some shit they don't know.

Very Rick Rubin-esque of you, Chris.

I mean, Rick, I to- Rick gave away the sauce. That's, he fucked up. He shouldn't have done so many podcast interviews. 'Cause before-

Mm

... he was just a mythic character who nobody understood, and now he's saying anybody could do it. And unfortunately, that's gonna give people the belief that they can do it.

And if anyone can do it, why am I paying this long hair fucking $3 million?

I mean, once again, you know, you're just like, you're bringing it back to the rawness.

Wait, hold on one second.Madi's frozen, by the way.

Oh yeah, your camera's frozen.

How is that real? Why is my internet connection so unstable?

[laughs]

Well, it's because you live in the, you live in the sticks, so it's, we gotta, I don't know, I don't know how many bartenders it takes to kinda churn the wheel to keep the WiFi going in East Nashville.

[laughs]

Oh man, you have no, you have no idea. It is, it's really... I mean, we got the nados down here too, the tornadoes, and we've got-

[laughs]

... like, we've got weather moving up.

Is that your WNBA team? What is that? The nados you said?

[laughs]

WNBA [laughs] team. Because it couldn't be, it couldn't just be an NBA name. [laughs]

That's right.

No.

Well, if it was NBA, then it would be, it wouldn't be as funny, you know?

[laughs]

But we could also be talking about the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Oh, my God. [laughs] Oh, my God.

All right. So you, have you suffered any, have you suffered at the hands of one of the famous Tennessee... 'Cause there was the one a couple years ago that was really bad.

There was a really bad one. Um, I, I kinda was about four blocks away from that one. I had a bunch of friends that, like, you know, kinda lost everything, like, walked out of their houses with their wallets kinda thing.

Shit.

Um, but I lucked out. I, I've lucked out both times we've had tornadoes touch down in Nashville in the last five years. I've been about four blocks away, and I even moved in that time. Like, I was living in Five Points at the time.

Yeah.

I know. I was like, "And then I'm gonna go out to Madison. It's gonna be safe and amazing," and then a tornado hopped through my neighborhood. Literally hopped.

Mm.

Um, so.

You ever seen a tornado hop? Didn't think so.

Didn't think so. [laughs]

It's, it's different. We call those the-

They do that down here

... the bunny nados, is what we call those.

The bunny nados.

So maybe you have, maybe you either have a sixth sense for knowing where to live and to stay out of the tornado's path, or you have some sort of black magic going on where when the nado comes, you start making a witch's brew and you, you shun it away-

Oh

... with your, uh, you know, your mystical powers.

Well, I'm living on the edge.

See, you just sneezed right now. You just sneezed right now. That's the devil trying to get at you.

That's a sign.

Well, I did also, like, right before we hopped on, I was chopping [clears throat] onions. [laughs]

Oh.

Like, a, half a dozen onions, just so I'm like-

What the fuck, what the fuck are you doing?

Half a dozen.

What are you doing, honey?

Are you making a perpetual stew for the neighborhood?

[laughs]

Yeah, what are you doing?

I just, I just got home, and you know, you know, Thanksgiving is tomorrow, and so I'm, like, in this really crazy in-between of, like, trying to, like, fold all my laundry and then, like, prepare my life for... And I guess onions was what I went for first thing in the morning.

Okay, so are you, so you just got home XO tour- XO tour life, like you were on the road?

Yeah, I just got home. We got home around, like, midnight on Sunday.

And straight into Thanksgiving.

Yeah. I played, I also play The Ryman on Monday opening for my friend Stephen Wilson Jr., who's, like, one of the realists out there I think. But he just finished his tour as well, so we kinda tandem have hit the brakes, and it was nice.

Okay, so you're playing, you're, you're playing Monday, so you can't eat a whole turkey.

Oh, no, I-

You kinda gotta keep-

I already played on Monday. No, I-

Oh, you played on Monday.

I did.

Okay. I got you, I got you.

I did it. Now I'm, like, full turkey crash. I can just, like, face plant in the turkey actually.

But you've played The Ryman before. I'm, that wasn't your first time.

It wasn't my first time, but it's really honestly, like, so special there. I don't think it's possible to make that room sound bad. I don't know how they did that.

Well, it feels like you're in a church. It do- you know, the, the-

Yeah

... pew seating really-

Aren't you, Chris?

The, well, it really threw me off 'cause I'd never been there before, and then I was like, "Well, this is... I don't really, I don't like to stand, but this is a little uncomfortable." You know?

[laughs]

It's not, it's not great for the, it's not great for the listener, let's say.

It's really, you should bring a pillow actually. [laughs] A butt pillow.

It's nice that it's, it, it's ni- yeah, I need a butt pillow.

[laughs]

It's nice that it's, it feels like it's geared towards the artist more than the listener, and I think that's why it's so good.

Mm.

Do, are you guys, are you guys in Nashville?

No, I live in New... I, no, I've just been a lot 'cause I grew up in Atlanta. And I went, I went to The Ryman for a, I went to see a show, 'cause I was like, "Oh, this place is special. I should go check it out."

I just looked up Stephen Wilson Jr.-

It really is, like, probably one of the coolest-

Sorry for interrupting. I just looked up Stephen Wilson Jr. I didn't know who he was. His Instagram bio is Death Cab for Country.

[laughs]

[laughs]

And he, he also performed at the CMA Awards, like, a week ago-

He did

... with fu- you know, all the, all the biggest names in country, i- like Big X Da Plug.

Yeah, it was cra- I actually, I played a show in LA that night, the night of the CMAs, and I got home, or got home. I go- [laughs] that's so sad. I got back to my hotel room. [laughs]

[laughs]

And, you know, have you ever been, like, traveling so much and you go, you're in so many hotel... I, like, will wake up in the middle of the night sometimes and, like, walk into a wall thinking the bathroom is, like, in a different-

Mm

... place. Like, it's, I'm just, you're just, like, whatever. Anyway, I got back from this show at, like, 1:00 AM or midnight or something, and I turned on ABC, and there was Stephen singing on the CMAs, like, in a spotlight, and it was just such a... I mean, he's been on the rise for the last, like, four or five years. He was, he was, like, he's one of those friends that's been in bands for a really long time, always been, like, in the writing scene, and he's just really, like, he's found it, and it's been-

Mm-hmm

... the last, [laughs] the last time, the last time I saw him play in Nashville before last night or before Monday night was in a room with, like, I don't know, like, a few hundred people, and it was one of those moments where I was like, "Yeah, my friend's about to be famous." Like-

That's gonna happen

... this is the last-

It was bubbling

... this is the last time we're gonna see him in a room like this. There's just, it's over. [laughs]

Okay, so you, you're flipping on the TV, "Oh, there's my bud. He's on Kimmel. He's on the CMAs," and you're walking into the wall at the hotel, you know.

[laughs]

What a stark difference, you know? [laughs]

Oh.

Look, Ma- Madi-

Yeah

... we believe in you. It's gonna happen for you, okay? Just keep, let's keep plugging away.

Oh. [laughs]

That's what this podcast is for. But more importantly than your life and career, what are these onions for?

Oh, I, I'm, like, a big-

I'm a big food guy.

Are you? I'm, I love pickled onions.

And also, this episode comes out on Thanksgiving Day, tomorrow, so-

No, it comes out Friday

... or no, Friday

... post-Thanksgiving, but-

Friday, Friday. So it'll be, it'll be leftover season when this episode drops, so I would like to y- I'd like to, to be a little detailed with your food preparation please.

Well, thank you. I'd, I would-

Sorry, Chris

... I would love that. Um, I am a big, uh, pickled onion fan, and so usually one of the first things I do when I get home is, when I hit the grocery store, is I, like, go buy a bunch of red o-Onions, and I chop them up just to torture myself and-

Are you go- are you going to the Turnip?

[laughs]

Are you going to the Turnip truck, or you hitting Kroger?

Man, I'm hitting Aldi, man. That shit is expensive. Are you kidding me? Turnip truck and Kroger?

You're not, you're d-

Please.

Aldi.

You're doing, you're doing g-

[laughs]

You're doing well enough-

Aldi

... to not go to Aldi.

[laughs]

Don't go to Aldi.

No, but-

You're better than that

... dude, literally, listen, like, if I go to Aldi, if I go to Aldi, I can spend, like, 60, 80 bucks and get my groceries for the week, my friend, and, like, it doesn't matter. Produce in Nashville is no bueno.

So you're, you're just meal preppin' onions, though.

[laughs]

What about real food, Maddy?

You, you mean the rest?

It's gonna start, price going up.

[laughs]

What are the onions going?

So you're like, "I, I just got off of tour-

Eating onions

... you know, first things first, before I even do laundry, whatever, I'm gonna make-

An onion cleanse. [laughs]

[laughs] I'm gonna pickle a dozen onions.

No, I do, I do, I do, um, most of my groceries at Aldi, and then I go across the street for, to Garden Fresh in Madison on Gallatin.

Mm.

And Madison does great, like, meats and, like, pork shoulders and, like, steaks, and this is, like, we're in-

Mm

... stew season, am I right? I mean, we're, like, in, like-

You are right.

We're, like, in pot roast, you know, like, potato, carrot.

My, my wife made a coq au vin last night-

Oh

... and boy, did it hit the spot.

You guys are fucking disgu-

What are you talking about?

Stew is disgusting, but go ahead.

Big meats? Oh, let's go.

[laughs]

Just, like, put a big meat-

Big meats

... in a pot.

No, stew, stew feels-

[laughs]

Stew feels like you're homeless. I gotta, like, it doesn't, it doesn't feel-

[laughs]

It doesn't feel like delicious food.

[laughs]

There's nothing homeless about coq au vin, Chris, a French delicacy.

No, coq, uh... No, of cour- of course. No, I understand that, but I think that the-

I would s- well, Chris, Chris doesn't eat meat-

[laughs]

... Maddy, so he's a little disqualified for this convo.

Oh.

I am. That's true. That's true.

So his version of stew is gonna be some, like, homeless guy lentil situation, so maybe that's why he thinks it has a little bit-

I love, well, I, I lo- I love lentils, but my version of stew-

[laughs]

... is an acai bowl, I think, is probably as close-

Ugh

... [laughs] I'm gonna get-

Come on. Are you serious? You're from Georgia and you're going acai bowl?

Hey, look.

What is happening?

Some of us, some of us rebelled against our culture and are now just finding our way back, you know?

He's a city boy now. He's a city boy now.

Yeah. I've, I've, I've, I've shaken off those chains of, of the South, and now I like dumb stuff that's more expensive.

I get that. My mo- I mean, my mom was, like, a bulk buyer, though. She was, like, she was kind of like one of the original health food store ladies and, but she would find, she would find, like, the semis, the trucks that were, like, on their way to the health food store. This is, like, you know what? I was like, [laughs] "This is insane." This is when I was like-

Like mafia style?

Did she rob them?

She- [laughs]

[laughs] I've seen Heat.

She's like, "Burkoats, giant tubs of peanut butter. Let's do this." [laughs]

Where's the brown rice, motherfucker?

Cigarettes, natural ketchup.

Hands in the air.

[laughs] Boca Burgers. Do you guys remember Boca Burgers? It was, like, the first-

We talk about, we talk-

This podcast has mentioned Boca Burgers more than any other podcast in the history of Apple podcasting.

Maybe I was thinking of it 'cause I literally haven't said Boca Burger in, I don't know, like, well over a decade.

I still think it's, I still think it's... If I'm going to a barbecue situation, I would prefer a Boca Burger over any other option.

Really?

Uh, the, the... I mean, homemade, obviously at a restaurant is, is probably the best, but Boca for store-bought is still my top.

Really? Even, like, Quinoa-

Yeah

... or, like, what do they call it? Uh, the, the-

There's Beyond, there's Impossible.

Beyond. That's what I'm talking about.

Beyond Eye.

No, Beyond's, Beyond's disgusting. It's terrible for your digestion. It's gross looking. I don't need my fake meat to bleed.

Ugh.

That's gross.

[laughs]

It's really crazy when they are trying to make their fake burgers-

Yeah

... bleed animal blood.

Hold on. Hold on. You don't, don't, don't skip over your mom robbing-

[laughs]

... health food store deliveries. Your mom-

She would-

Intercepting the shipment.

No, she would-

Nutritional yeast, motherfucker.

[laughs] She would, she would-

Okay. Okay. Okay

... she would, like, find, she would find, um, the companies that were, you know, like, getting the semis to go to the, the health food store, and she would, like, she would, like-

Yeah

... basically make, like, a big, uh... She would make an order, like, a bulk order and find other family... We were homeschooled, too, so we were just, like, we were doing all the things.

Oh, you're a real f- you're a real freak. I like this. You earned it.

We were... I was, I was raised crunchy, for sure. [laughs] In the woods, like Amish country.

Where?

Like, Pennsylvania.

Oh, Pennsylvania. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Yeah.

The homeschool to Berklee School of Music pipeline is a real thing, isn't it?

I think it might be. I mean, I've only ran into-

I tell you what, Adrian Alinker d- Adrian Alinker definitely feels homeschooled-

[laughs]

... and in some ways, so does John Mayer. I, I kinda, I kinda see the weird-

[laughs]

I s- I see a weird through, through line.

There's a type. There's a type. [laughs]

Yeah, there's a type.

Yeah. Can you, can you hear color, Maddy?

I cannot hear color, okay? [laughs] I, I kinda wish I could, though. It's pretty sick. [laughs]

All right, so when you, all right, so when you go to Berklee, is it just, like, nerd fest 101, or is it, like, "Oh, everybody in here is just a cool shredder"?

It's incredibly nerd- I mean, like, there are guitars shapes that you will never see again. Like, just Hot Wheels. Like, and, like, they all look like Nike Air 1s versions of guitars. [laughs]

[laughs] So you're saying that, you're saying that people are pulling up with instruments that you've... Just stuff you ain't seen before.

Never seen before, and shredding. And, like, soundproof... My, one of my, one of the weirdest places and one of my favorite places is in Berklee are, like, the, the, like, halls of practice rooms that, like, exist on every floor. Like, at the end of every floor, there's, like, like, a weird tunnel with teeny tiny soundproof rooms with, like, windows you can see, like, through the doors and, like, see what people are doing in there, and you could just, like, shut yourself in there-

Mm

... and practice forever. And I remember, like-

Can you hotbox in there, though, bro?

There, there was al- honestly, all sorts of crazy shit going on in those practice rooms. [laughs]

Oh, I bet.

100%.

Yeah. I know you guys are ner-

[laughs]

I know you guys are nerds, but I bet you were still trying to have sex with each other, so I could see where this-

Well, it's, like, band camp nerd shit. You know what I mean? Like, those band camp kids are dirty. You know that they are. [laughs]

[laughs]

But yeah, it was, like, it was, it was, like, 24-hour practice rooms, like, just shredding and, like, ear training and, like, just learning music theory, and I don't know. It was, for, for two years it was, like, my favorite place on, on the planet, and then I dropped out. [laughs]

Did you go there f- and you went there for two years?

Yeah, I was there for almost two and a half years, and then, and then I kinda-

Nobody finishes, though.

Okay.

I've never heard of anybody finishing 'cause if you really got it, you're like, "This is-I don't need this

I was also, I was working full-time bartending at this place called The Pour House, which was, like, a couple blocks away.

Is it P-O-U-R, I'm assuming?

P-O-U-R, y-

Okay

... P-O-U-R, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, a kinda-

That's nice

... dinery, cheap nacho, like, beer, 22-ounce beers.

Mm.

Oh, that sounds... I would love to serve a 22-ounce beer to a drunk guy in Boston.

[laughs]

That sounds [laughs]

Dude, they open at 7:00 AM, or they used to. They opened at 7:00 AM, too, and, like, people, like, lined up. It was crazy.

Dude, breakfast nachos, dude.

[laughs]

Dude, breakfast Patron. It was, like, in... It was ridiculous. [laughs]

Can I see your breakfast Patron menu? I have a severe alcoholism.

Seriously.

What is the, what is... All right, so you dropped out two and a half years. Are you the most successful... Who, who is the most-

No

... successful person from your class?

[laughs]

Who is the most successful person from your class? Let's name names.

She's at Aldi, Chris. It, it's gotta go up from there.

Literally.

I'm, I'm saying, I don't mean, I don't mean, like, guys in... Like, I don't mean session nerds. I mean, like, people whose names we're gonna know.

Oh. Well, I mean, I, I really don't know, I guess. [laughs]

See, exactly. It's you. It's you.

Mm.

You're number one.

Mm.

I was trying to gas you up, and you're trying to make it hard on yourself.

You didn't go to cool school with Chance the Rapper or something cool like that, huh? Nothing-

I know, I didn't have

... yeah. Yeah

... I feel like... Well, I feel like there were a couple people that just, like, dropped out way earlier than I did 'cause they were just, like, already on tour and, like, kinda killing it with people or, you know, already kinda having, like, huge song moments-

Right

... and I don't know.

Like, my, I'm, I'm better at harp than my harp teacher. Why am I paying this guy 60 grand-

Mm

... a year kinda thing?

Yeah, kinda.

Yeah.

Or, like, I don't know, just crazy sound engineers or crazy band leader people. Yeah, there's, there's just, like-

Right, right, right

... but at the same time, like, I, when I moved out to Nashville, I moved out with, like, a lot of people that had either also dropped out or people that were just, like, starting to make records and, like, ca- like, Charlie Worsham, for instance, is, like, I don't know if you guys know him, but he was, he was in my class and, like, is... You know, he got a CMA last year for, like, best, I don't know, country person, [laughs] best, like-

[laughs]

... best player of stuff. Like, I think best instrumentalist, I wanna say. Uh-

Dopest country person.

Yeah, dopest country person.

Coolest country guy with guitar. All right, so-

And I think he graduated, which is, you know, like, kind of, kind of impressive.

Show off.

Oh, he actually finished.

Yeah, show off.

What's up with y- what, what's up with you and the CMAs? Have you been?

[laughs]

Do you like that kinda stuff?

No, I think-

Are you friends?

I think I'm talking about it a lot 'cause it just happened last week, and, like, most of my friends are, you know, like, Brothers Osborne or, like, Kacey Musgraves, or, like, a, a lot of my friends write with, like, Kelsea Ballerini, and she's, like, you know, she did a performance last week.

Kelsea's been in the new- Kelsea's been in the news a lot lately for her, her on-again, off-again relationship. I've been following this closely.

Has she now? Oh my God, it's like you're in on the Nashville gossip. [laughs]

They rekindled, they rekindled, but it's, they've unfortunately already separated again, so I think-

Oh my God

... I think third time's a charm if they can f- you know-

Yeah

... if they can find each other again, obviously, in this thing we call life, but you never know.

You never know, you know?

You never know.

It's, it's a rollercoaster.

Well, what I li- what I always say about country music, which is so fascinating to me, is that it's the only popular genre where looks don't matter.

[laughs]

And that's why I watch the CMAs. What is Evolve Man, Jason? It's... Oh, funny you ask.

What's a Revolve Man?

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Genuinely, yeah. It's one of those things, we're all busy. Let's say we got an important dinner coming up at the end of the week. It's Tuesday. You're working every single day. You don't have time to go shopping and try clothes on and blah, blah, blah, or even just browse. You know, Revolve, it's all there. It's all curated for what you want, and then you click buy. You go to bed. Couple days later, that shows up in packaging that's a little nicer than y- the other places you're buying clothes from, and you've got a nice look for the big night out. And then you're like, "Wait a minute, I don't even have to return this because I enjoy this clothing and I wanna wear it again another time," versus all those dumb other websites. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last-minute that actually works, Revolve Man always has it. Go to revolveman.com/howlong to shop and use code HOWLONG for 15% off your order, free two-day shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That is revolve.com/howlong, and use the promo code HOWLONG to get 15% off your entire order. Offer ends soon. Don't sleep on it. And you don't need clothes, too. You can get just, you know, a cool candle or an incense gift for a baby shower. Whatever it is, revolve.com/howlong.

Hi, Talkhouse network listeners. It's your old friend Nels Cline from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer, and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan; Chautauqua, New York; Lafayette, New York; Bethlehem, Pennsylvania; Vienna, Virginia; Forest Hills, New York; Portland, Maine; Tulsa, Oklahoma; Memphis, Tennessee; LaGrange, Georgia; Charleston, South Carolina; Virginia Beach, Virginia; Wheeling, West Virginia; and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson, that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilcoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer.

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'Cause you can get a, you can get so, you can get a fucking dog up there and win an award.

[laughs]

It's amazing. It's amazing. It's hon- it's honestly like this guy looks like he works at a fucking gas station and he's taken home six trophies.

Like, what do you mean his name is Jelly Roll? They're like, "Nah, sorry."

[laughs] Like trophies, medals.

It's a-

[laughs]

Number one favorite.

But I, I appreciate it. I, I appreciate it 'cause it's like I just feel like it really is about the music. I, I... And all joking aside, I feel like they really care about the craft more than anyone else, and it's like we don't give a shit if you look like you sell Fords.

No, it's real. Like-

Like it's all good

... that guy could've been working at Piggly Wiggly six months ago.

[laughs]

And like n- now he's like standing in a spotlight on st- It's, it's special.

Maybe because country is such a radio dominant-

For sure

... genre, you know what I mean? They, they, they-

I guess

... say you got a, you got a face for radio. I feel like country radio dominates-

Is big, yeah

... compared to other genres, yeah.

What about, what about that guy, what about that guy that fights with Zach Bryan all the time? What's his name?

Oh, my God. Uh-

Gavin?

Is it, is it not John-

No, his name is Gavin. It's, th- there's like a video of him, him like jumping a fence at a festival, like pr- like going to fight. And I was like, "This is so cool." Like, if you can't do this in any other genre where you like you have a goatee, you could lose 30, and you're jumping a fence to try to fight a guy who's a lot more popular than you.

Yeah. [laughs]

Yeah.

It's just so sick. It's so cool.

He's in-

Are you talking about Gavin Adcock?

Gavin Adcock. Yeah, Gavin A-

Country music's biggest troll.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

He's awesome.

I mean-

I mean, his music is not awesome, but he, the whole thing is so fucking funny.

[laughs]

It's so funny.

The country singer is doing something rarely done in Nashville, picking fights with fellow artists. You know, this is a thing that we were talking about on the podcast earlier this week about how nowadays if you want to find success in your field, you kinda have to pick fights and start beefs and rivalries with-

Diss tracks

... maybe, maybe that, maybe some diss tracks, but like that's how, you know, like the Taylor Swift and the Charli XCX and the blah blah blah, and like, you know, you can, you can-

Maddy, who do you have beef with?

Like even if whether or not their fight is real.

Who do you have beef with? Let's start now.

I know. Like who am I gonna fight? This is so exciting. [laughs]

I, I know you ha- I know you can't talk about your beefs. We'll, we'll text about it later. I'm sure you have some, and I love beef.

[laughs]

Look, Musgraves has her, you know, she's a sweet girl kind of thing.

Get out, dude. No fucking way.

What?

Nah, I've never, I've never known such a girl's girl like Kacey. I'm like she can't, can't crack Kacey.

People, oh, people love Paramore or whatever, but you know, I mean, eh.

I don't know.

Okay, you, well, you mention Kacey Musgraves being a girl's girl. Who's not a girl's girl?

[laughs] Oh, shit. Girl's girl? I mean, that's the thing. I mean-

Are you a girl- Maddy, are you a girl's girl? If you were on The Bachelorette or something, would they-

I think she is

... would they call you that?

You know, I would say in my 20s I didn't know how to be a girl's girl. Like, I feel like, you know, the system wasn't like really set up for me to be a girl's girl. I was like just kinda-

Oh

... like a, a bro bro.

I, I guess that's a little homeschooly.

Yeah, it's a little homeschooly.

I don't know.

That's true.

Maybe [laughs] homeschooly, but-

[laughs]

But in my 30s I think I'm-

Like, I know a girl, Mommy. [laughs]

Like, no.

That's it.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Not even Mommy. Okay, see?

Oh, my gosh. Mommy, Daddy.

So you're saying, you're saying Ka- you're saying y- you're saying if Kacey saw your man at the bar cozying up next to another-

Oh, dude

... chick, she would text you. She would text you and be like-

Dude, she would send me a pic. She'd send me a video. She'd probably walk up to him like with, [laughs] like on, she'd probably FaceTime me. [laughs]

Damn. All right, so it's-

She'd FaceTime you

... all right, so Kacey-

She'd come home with his scalp.

Yeah, Kacey a real one.

She would come home with his scalp. She would. [laughs]

[laughs] I saw your little, I saw your little ass. I saw your little ass. I took care of business for you. That is a girl's girl.

Oh, dude.

That is a girl's girl.

Literally.

I don't know if, yeah, I don't know if, um, I, I feel like country music loves to, I feel like that's all rewarded in the genre, you know what I mean? It's a little more dramatic than others, I would say.

Yeah, I mean, uh, it's a small town, you know?

Oh, here we go.

[laughs]

It's a small town.

[laughs]

Okay, Yellowstone.

Yeah. Why do you live there, Landman? Do you like it?

[laughs]

Or is it like-

Still waters run deep.

[laughs]

[laughs] There, there's just something in the water down here.

But do you, but do you, do you live there 'cause it's just ground zero for business, or do you actually like it?

I, I love it. I, it's, it's just been like there's something, there's something about, maybe it's the humidity that just like it he- makes everything a little bit heavier.

[laughs]

So j- I just like-

It's got everything. We've got tornadoes, Aldi, humidity. I mean-

Yeah.

Your hair does like, your hair does like good, so the humidity-

Oh, my God. Thank you

... is working in your, in your favor.

See?

Yeah.

I'm here for the hair. I'm here for the hair.

Okay. Well, what, what do you, I wanna, we were talking about CMAs and stuff like that. We have somebody who lives in Nashville, boots on the ground, pun intended.

[laughs]

How do you feel about, we've, we've talked about this for a long time about the cowboy aesthetic being adopted by mainstream culture, and we keep talking about, you know, how is it still a thing? How, or is it still cowboy Carter?

Uh-huh.

And how is every bachelorette party pink cowboy hats, and how is every, how has cowboy aesthetic become I'm gonna go out and have fun, even if it's at a rave or, you know, something that has nothing to do with country music?

I mean-

What, what's going on?

... I do think being a cowboy is like one of the, I grew up riding horses. I grew up around, you know, I, nothing. I mean, I grew up in farm country, so.

Okay.

She's letting you sh- Jason, she's letting you kn- you know she's a real one.

Mm-hmm.

[laughs]

She ain't new to this. She's true to this.

Yeah. I mean-

Ding

... if you wanna come on down and I'll, we'll take you riding and we'll see how you do, you know?

I'm scared. I'm scared of horses.

Look, I'm, I'm not questioning your cowboy status.

[laughs]

Or cow- O- okay, I'm not, this is not a G check. It's not a C check.

[laughs] This isn't like a Reddit burn live.

I'm just saying, you know.

This isn't Ask Me Anything live.

[laughs] C check.

No, no, no, no. I'm, I have no d- I'm, this is, this is a thing that I'm, now that I have a bonafide cowgirl on our podcast today, I just wanted to see if you had any observations on that matter.

I mean-

Ma'am

... I think, uh, I moved down to Nashville. I know I'm making this about me. It's the only way that I can probably like, uh, get into why-

No, that's kind of the whole point of this

... get into, get into-

It's kind of the whole point of this

... get into why-

So please go ahead

... like, you know, it is appealing.

[laughs]

I think like, I don't know, things move slower down here. It gives you a little bit more time to, um, to like be in your body and like come into yourself and like-I don't know. I like... I lived in LA for six years, and I just, I couldn't find myself there. There are just, like, so many different versions of things out there. And in Nashville, there are really kinda like, I can only really be myself. Um, so I don't know. I mean, I wonder, I wonder if cosplay cowboy is just, like, fun to try on because people are wondering how real maybe that is for themselves.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Um, but it also looks pretty real. Real looks good on most people, so. [laughs]

Mm.

You're telling me.

Mm.

That's why I look like a tough guy.

Okay, Don Draper, that's a nice little quote right there.

[laughs]

Did you... Well, when you were in LA, what was the-

Well, he looks good on you.

Did you start dressing funny?

Realists, get on you.

Did you start doing weird shit and you had to check yourself?

[laughs] I was just in a lot of bands, and I was, like, writing in a lot of different, like for a lot of different projects and trying on a little, like a lot of different things. Like, trying on pop, trying on, like, punk bands, trying on, like, you know, laptop, electronic, whatever. And trying on, like, you know, seance, like, leather rock, you know? Like, there were like-

[laughs]

There were a lot of different things to be expected. [laughs]

Seance leather. Are you getting your little Cocteau Twin on, Twin?

Yeah.

I kinda was. I was in... Uh, I started a band called Riot Horse with, like, a, a college, but actually another, um, Berkeley, uh, person. Uh, we started a band, and we were in a band for a while. And, uh, yeah, I don't know, like, just trying on a lot of the different versions. And it wasn't until, like, I got back to Nashville and was just, like, by myself that, like, you know, kinda was able to write from a, from one place, I guess.

Mm-hmm. No, that ma- I mean, that makes sense.

Right. Riot Horse, like that's like the horse that has all the tactical gear-

Yeah

... at the protests?

It's like the horses.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. It's like the police horses.

They got fucking brass knuckles on their hooves and shit. It's fucking awesome.

Do you drive a, do you drive a truck? Be honest.

I do. I have a Ford Maverick. [laughs]

[laughs]

What's a, what's a Ford Maverick?

That's the most lesbian truck you can own.

That sounds like an Aldi.

It is.

[laughs]

It's like the Subaru, it's the Subaru of, of the truck family. It is. [laughs] It's the Lesbro of the truck family.

It, it, Chris, it, it may or may not be electric, or ma- Is it hybrid?

It is a hybrid. I was not able to get a hybrid version. I pro- I bought the last one in Tennessee in 2023.

Ooh.

[laughs]

You got the last Maverick in Tennessee, young lady.

You gotta work that into a lyric. That feels poetic.

[laughs]

It's more, it's more of a city, it's more of a city truck than a hauler. But hey, that's fine. You're not really moving bales of hay every day, right?

How often are you using the bed? You throw in the fucking Telecaster in the back? Are you putting that baby in the backseat?

I mean, I just unloaded just so much stuff from the tri- I mean, just back killing amounts of-

Cases of onions

... onions and sweatshirts that no one bought, and records that are heavy.

[laughs]

[laughs]

All right, so, uh...

It's all in my yard.

Okay, so we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna be burning merch to keep warm through the winter.

[laughs]

Another boiled onion, sir?

Wouldn't be the first time. [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

Another boiled onion. [laughs]

[laughs]

My version of a lemonade stand is just like... [laughs]

Oh, are you hungry?

Hot.

I have a boiled hoodie for you if you're-

At least it's warm

... if you're feeling peckish.

[laughs]

I'm glad, I'm glad you drive a truck, though. That's cool. I, I think it's, it feels appropriate for you.

Do you drive in, in your New York City-ness, or are you just kinda like-

No, but I think I have to start. I think it's, I think it's my final form is, 'cause I think it's-

Really?

Well, I have a parking spot, so it's like-

Oh

... that's like kinda half the battle.

Oh.

So if you have that-

That's huge

... you sorta just, I mean-

What a perk.

Where are you gonna put the Peloton, though?

[laughs]

Yeah, great point. Great point.

[laughs]

[laughs]

What else can you do-

How-

... with a parking spot, though? I'm feeling like there are lots of, like, you could probably rent that out in like New York City, space-wise.

Yeah, I mean, if you need a, if you need a place to stay next time you're in town, I can put-

[laughs]

That's what I'm saying

... a cot down there.

That's literally what I'm saying. [laughs] I'm like, "Can I, can I rent that spot-

It's on Airbnb right now

... actually?"

People do rent-

[laughs]

... people do rent them. It's a very... I mean, they're expensive, so it's like a whole thing, but I don't, I, I just, like, last night, Jason, we went to go see Oedipus on, on, at Studio 54, and I ran into Chris Kroner.

Mm-hmm.

And he's like, "I drove here." Like, people-

It's cool

... like, if you, once you start doing it, you drive everywhere.

And also, you and Chris, both guys named Chris who are sober, so that's great. 'Cause like New York City, I feel like, you know, I'm gonna go out on the town. It's not gonna be, it's gonna be a DU- it's gonna be giving DUI.

As they say. [laughs]

So it's good. [laughs]

If you leave Corner Store after six martinis, they're gonna, they're gonna light you up on-

Oh, my God

... on Bowery.

Although New York feels like a place where you'd never see somebody getting pulled over for a DUI, right?

You really don't. That's very Tennessee, actually.

Oh, it's so Tennessee.

I'm sure, Matt, how many, how many you got?

You ever been lit up before n- Mattie?

How many DUIs you got? At least one.

I'm just trying to date guys with no DUIs. That's like, that's my new, [laughs] that's my new requirement.

Oh, that rhymes.

No, D-

[laughs]

DUIs are hot, though.

I'm trying to write a country song while we're... You know, I'm, I'm really into time utilization, so I, if I, if I can get-

Mm-hmm

... like at least, like, a verse out of this situation, we're, we're, we're good to go. I'll, I'll, like, even cut you guys in. This is great. You can give me your parking space-

Okay

... for song lyrics.

And we will, we will-

Come on.

No, we, I don't want points.

If I get a shout-out, I'm happy with that. I need full name, though. No initials, no, like-

Yeah

... weird...

Can, can date guys with, who's got DUIs. But there's some, but maybe, like, unless, but if, if they have enough money to afford the lawyer fees, I'm back. You know? Like, that kind of energy, right?

[laughs]

Girl power.

As long as he takes care of it, you know what I mean? Like, as long as, like, he's, like, willing to talk about taking care of it. [laughs]

[laughs]

All right, so are we in the mar- are we in the market for a new man now? Can we help you at all?

Responsibility is so hot.

[laughs] Responsibility is so attractive.

[laughs]

Oh, my God. I like, I'm, I'm like on-again, off-again market. I think, uh, you know, like, I'm, I have really, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I, I really love living alone, and I love waking up alone, and I love going to bed alone, so there is that.

Sounds like you should just be promiscuous.

[laughs]

Yes. [laughs]

Get to fucking, get to leaving.

You know, that's really interesting. I've been thinking about that. Uh... [laughs]

[laughs]

I'm a really big, I'm a really big fan of, uh, of, did you know that Frida Kahlo and Diego Rivera, like, they had houses next to each other, and they, like, built a bridge between their houses so that they could, like, visit each other, but they basically just kinda like vibed alone?

Yeah, that's so cool. It's so cool.

Yeah.

It's so cool.

What about that?

I know, I-I know people that have had apartments next to each other, and one is the one they sleep in and one is, like, the office.

They share both though?

You know what I mean?

That's not gonna work. [laughs]

No, no. I think it's, I think it's like so there's one person that goes to an office, and there's one person that needs one, and there's one area for sleeping.

Just a commute of, like, walking next door, that's amazing.

You could do that in, you could do that in Tennessee. There's all kinds of space. It's cheap.

There's, like, a house for rent across the street from my house, and I'm like, this is... You know, that's, that would be it. That's great. But you can't, you can't also, like, sleep with your neighbor, so, like, it'd have... It would have to be, like, a very serious situation for, like, that to be a mm-

Well, are you... I feel like you're someone who wants to date age appropriate, and unfortunately they're gonna be a musician, and I don't think there's much-

No

... you can do about that.

I won't do that. [laughs]

Okay, you're, okay, you're gonna, you're gonna date an IT guy? Who the fuck are you gonna... Come on.

I'm talking like was there, like, a landscaper or, like, a, a, like, doctor-

Ooh

... or, like, a, [laughs] like, a farmer.

Big variance between those two.

So you want somebody that works-

Airlines

... works with their hands.

Guy who wo- he's got a good job at the Yeti.

Yeti, yeah. Great. Love that. Hire that Yeti variant.

Who's your, who's your man? Oh, he actually, he runs Lucchese actually. He's, like, in the-

[laughs]

He's the CEO. It's great. It's super cool.

[laughs]

I would be... Yeah, but if he's running Lucchese, he's fucked every-

Oh, that's true

... every chicken in town.

Even Nicole-

You know what I mean?

Oh, my God. [laughs]

Lucchese boy.

Nicole Kidman's even gotten a piece.

[laughs]

Nicole Kidman's even got a piece.

That's the thing, like, I believed, I believed in love.

I mean, what a catch, but honey, he's ran through.

I believed in love until I, until Nicole Kidman and Keith. Like, when that happened, like, I felt my... Like, it was, like, an audible breaking of hearts I think, like, a- across the country. It was just, ugh. Right? Around the world?

I believed in love until they started dating. I was like, "What? He's gay."

Yeah, what are you doing?

"What are you talking about?"

Ah. [laughs]

[laughs] I don't think he's gay. I think he's Australian, and I think it's crazy that he's Australian. Every time I look at him I forget-

There you go. [laughs]

... that he's Australian, and it's, it's-

Right, and then he starts talking and you're like, "Oh, my God."

But do you think you're gonna no- you're gonna see Keith down at the Bluebird now trying to pick up youngins? Or, like, what are we...

[laughs]

You think, is he out on the town? Is he going to fucking open mic nights now?

What's the gay bar in Nashville? That's where he'll be at.

[laughs]

[laughs] Found. Found. Spotted.

What is the gay bar in Nashville? I've never been to a gay bar in Nashville.

Chris is trying to get you off the scent.

There's... I mean, I think Play is, like, the most renowned. There's also Lipstick Lounge.

Mm.

Oh, so good.

But that's lesbian leaning I assume.

Musgraves can't show up at the Lipstick Lounge, right?

Yeah. Mu-

[laughs]

You and Musgraves can't show up at Lipstick Lounge. You'll do morals. I'll s- be talking about it

... Lipstick, Lipstick Lounge is like a 1:00 AM, like, a, a last-minute play for me personally. Um-

[laughs] One last shot?

One last shot at the-

[laughs] One last shot at love.

One last shot at... [laughs]

[laughs] I guess I'll hit the lounge.

[laughs]

Cool.

Couldn't get no dick tonight. Ran out of coke. I'll hit the lounge. Maybe I'll sl- find something warm.

[laughs]

One last shot-

See what's up

... at love is good. That's good.

Are you writing that down for a bridge right now?

I-

She's writing, she's writing that down.

I'm thinking, I'm thinking A minor to C on that.

I'll, I'll put you in touch with Jason's publisher.

Feels good, right? I'm gonna shout you out like DJ Khaled. I'm gonna be like, "Jason Stuart."

[laughs]

"Chris Black. We the best music."

[laughs]

One last shot.

You can let it, you can... That's fine. That's fine for us. When you show up at a place like that, though, 'cause in Nashville, you know, I'm sure you're, you're an impressive karaoke singer if you're in any other city. But in Nashville everyone-

Mm

... can sing, so what do you even do? Like, does your Sheryl Crow work there, or do you have to go crazy?

Man, I actually, like, not to bring it back to the dating thing, but I used to date this guy and we would sing the, uh, the Kid Rock Sheryl Crow duet.

Great song.

But-

Kid Rock's only good song.

Great song.

Get you off my mind. I can't understand why we're living life this way. I found your picture today. I swear I'll change my ways.

Great song. Great song. But there was, like, some scary dive bar, um, on the other side of town, like, in South Nashville. I'm trying to remember what it was called, but it was, like, it was kind of near the zoo, the Nashville Zoo. And, like, there were only ever, like, five or six people, and just chain-smoking inside, like, Coors Light at, like, 2:00 PM kinda. Mm-hmm.

But it was when I first moved back from LA and really just needed, like, six months to kind of [laughs] find my feet.

[laughs]

Mm. Got it.

For sure. We've all been there.

What a, what a nice way to put it.

Yeah.

My ho phase.

My ho phase.

[laughs]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That. [laughs]

Like, "Wow, she's really getting around." No, no, no. She's just trying to find her feet.

I'm just being the worst.

I'm just-

I'm trying to find my feet

... I'm just finding my feet. [laughs]

So you, you, you and your own Bob Ritchie would sing the Kid Sheryl cover together.

Oh, yeah.

The song, the song is called Picture from 2001.

Yeah, we were like-

[singing] I found your picture today.

You know, you know, like, in the, in, like, the movies what, where, like, you know, it's like you're drinking from the wine glasses but you wrap your arms around each other's arms.

Mm-hmm.

We would do that with, like, the microphones and, like, chain smoke and, like, you know, kinda... It was, it was a whole moment. [laughs] Just looking into-

Mm-hmm

... each other's eyes. We went... You had to go, you have to go all the way sometimes, you know?

Yeah. No, I agree. You have to sell that one.

Mm.

You have to go all the way down.

That is such a-

So you can go-

That is such a great song. I kind of forget about it 'cause I feel like it doesn't really come up that much now that Bob's sort of persona non grata, but he gave us that one at least.

Mm-hmm.

You know, he gave us that one at least.

He did.

Yeah, poor Sheryl.

He did. He gave us that and, like, a horrible bar on Broadway that I won't-

Oh, does he have a bar?

That I only went to one time.

What's it called?

I can't remember, but it's, like, four stories and just, like, oh, my God, just, it's, like, just yelling.

Yeah, I know that there's, like, a Kid Rock bar. Who else has... What other celebrity country people?

Fucking Morgan-

Mariah Carey

... Wallace Bar.

I'm pretty sure-

Does Guy Fieri have one?

Florida Georgia Line I think has one. And I will say, like, one woman bar-owning country lady on Broadway, Miranda Lambert, GOAT. Like, great bar.

Of course.

Great hang, and just, you know-

I actually li-

It's a cool place

... I listened to Miranda, I listened to Miranda Lambert on Joe Rogan kind of by accident.

Did you now?

And-

By accident. [laughs]

Yeah, it was just, it... Well, she, you know she married, like, a cop?

Yeah.

Like, she just married, like, a New York cop?

I wanna say he's a firefighter, but yeah. Yep. Uniform guy.

And Mir- I just looked up Miranda's bar. It's called Miranda Lambert's Casa Rosa-

Casa Rosa

... a Tex-Mex cantina.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, you can eat too?

Oh, yeah.

It's kind of her version of, uh, Los Angeles' Pink Taco, if you're familiar-

Okay

... with that one, Maddie.

Be fun. Yes, very Rhinestones.

Wow, that sounds-

Yeah

... pretty good. I would like to go to Morgan Wallen's bar. That's the... He threw the chair off of his own bar?

Th- th- th-

Or was it a different bar?

I think it... [laughs] I don't know. [laughs]

'Cause you know, as much-

Sometimes you gotta throw a chair off the, off the roof

... as much as I should li- I, I should, in theory, based on my musical taste, I should really like Morgan Wallen, and for some reason, I don't. And it, it's sort of confusing to me.

I love... I, I will say, like, one thing about, uh, Nashville too, I feel like so many of the, like, Nashville pop star country stars, like, are leaning into, like, everyone's building their lore, you know what I mean? It's like, in 30 years, there are gonna be these stories about Morgan Wallen throwing the chair off of the roof of his bar. That is totally an in- insane... [laughs] That's an insane move.

It is an insane move. I mean, I al-

But I think it's, it's, it's much less romanticized than the, like, Led Zeppelin trashing their hotel rooms back in the day, and driving a car into the pool, throwing a TV out the window. That's cool, and legendary, and sick, and sexy. But Morgan Wallen screaming the N-word and throwing a fucking stool off the roof-

That's insane

... you know? It just has a different feel to it.

That's insane. Right.

Well, that's because look at, look at Morgan Wallen's-

Right

... haircut. You know what I mean? It's not, it's not-

Mm-hmm

... it doesn't feel cool. It's just, he's not cool.

But why do, why do women... Why, why can't women resist him?

[laughs]

Why are their powers... [laughs]

Why have they not built up-

Maddie, when's the last time you d- when's the last time you dated a guy with a, with a little mullet? Be honest, 'cause that's hard to miss in Nashville.

Oh, far too recently.

[laughs]

It was months ago, honestly. [laughs] Like, just-

She went, "What time is it?"

Literally, like-

"Noon?"

... it's not even real. That just... [laughs] That's like, like, maybe also currently, you know what I mean? Like... [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

Unavoidable.

He said he was going to the barber shop yesterday. I haven't seen him since, so it could be you, right?

How many guys in Nashville in your age range-

[laughs]

... of fuckability don't have a mullet? You know?

I don't-

Let's play that game

... have to see the back. I don't have to see the...

[laughs]

If I'm just, like, if I... I can, I can choose not to see the back.

This is a lyric as well.

[laughs]

I don't need to see the back of his head, but he need to see the back of mine.

The women's right, a women's right to choose across the board, I choose not to see the back of your head ever.

[laughs]

I choose the front. [laughs]

I am blind. I'm blind to your racist haircut.

Pro-choice all the way. I just, like, that's just my thing, you know? [laughs]

Wow.

That, that hair- that haircut is a disease, and I think Nashville and Austin are the two most infected places.

[laughs]

Oh, no.

That's where we need outbreak style.

See, see-

That's the Wuhan of the mullets.

Yeah, that's the w- that's the wet market of the mullet.

I must, I must be broken.

[laughs]

I like, I'm like-

You spray them-

... I can make it cute

... with the Bed Head before we cut it.

I can make it cute.

Yeah.

[laughs]

You look at the mullet and say, "I could fix him"?

I'm broken. I can, yeah. [laughs]

You're, you're saying you can make it cute by, like, being on their arm? Or you're saying you're gonna put-

[laughs]

... some Bed Head in it like Jason said? I don't understand what you mean.

[laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

Okay, Maddie, okay.

[laughs]

Let's, let's go back to Morgan really quick.

That's why I speak broadly, you know what I mean? Because, like-

Of course

... just take, take what you will.

Let's say you didn't know-

Take what you will

... a single thing about Morgan Wallen, and you just saw, he just came up to you and started talking, or you saw a photo of him. Would you say this guy is attractive or no?

You know what's funny? I don't know what he looks like. I just know his fame. I don't actually, I don't know what he looks like.

Okay.

He, he looks like a, he looks like a guy that works at Aldi. You know? Kind of. Like, he doesn't really look-

He's a country music singer, plays stadiums. Maybe he's-

He doesn't l-

[laughs]

But I'm saying he doesn't l- he doesn't look like much, you know what I'm saying? It's not-

[laughs]

He's got angles.

What's, what's the guy? B- Midland. You know, the, the model guys, the one that's married to, to Ty from Outdoor Voices. Like, those guys are too hot. Like, it feels-

Also don't know. I don't know. I feel like I know, like, I, I was, like, the most useless person to ever, like, live in Hollywood. I, I knew who, like, Brad Pitt was, and Angelina Jolie-

Okay

... and that was, like, kind of, that, like, was about it for me.

So you wouldn't, you wouldn't r- you wouldn't recognize someone from Selling Sunset when you're at, you know-

Selling who?

When you're getting, like, coffee at Starbucks.

So you're more, you swim more comfortably in the waters of, let's say, the Lilith Fair crowd.

I actually, I know the Selling Sunset, uh, cast very well. That's one of my, that's one of my binge watches when I get home from tour. I'm like, what? 30 million?

My queen.

Hmm.

I knew, I knew, I knew we had a lot, I knew we had a lot in common.

[laughs]

Chris, you can, you can smell it on you.

What? $30 million house.

I can smell the Oppenheimer on you.

[laughs]

Yeah, you, you're the, you're the O group.

The... [laughs]

You're the O group.

Put your Os up. [laughs]

Did you... What was that, uh, what is that? Oh.

Alma ops.

Um, that movie, Arrival. Do you remember Arrival? Like, where they talk in the s- the ink swooshes?

Yes.

Doesn't the O group emblem look very much like an alien, like, ink swoosh?

[laughs]

Like, every time they p- see... I, every time-

Yeah

... I see the O group-

Mm-hmm

... I'm like, why are we doing the Arrival emblem? I don't understand what's happening.

No, i- yeah, it's like a rustically drawn O ring. And actually, there's a, there's a apartment complex on my street that's currently up for sale from the O group, and that si- I walk by that sign every day. And I, now that I'm looking at the Arrival Sanskrit language O, it's a-

Right?

... it's a spitting image.

Are... Wait, are you in LA? That's where you are?

I'm in LA. That's where I am, baby.

Oh.

You jealous?

You don't get P- don't get PTSD from just talking to him, now. Just calm down.

I kind of... Yeah, I just... [laughs] Did you see, did you see me glaze over just for, like, that-

[laughs]

Which bad, w- well, which, which bad, which bad East Side neighborhood did you live in, though? 'Cause I feel like you were making-

Oh my God, hilarious. [laughs]

How deep in Mount Washington were you?

[laughs]

That's funny. I actually, I was, like... I, I think I lived, I had an apartment in 2012. And so, like, my r- my rent was still, like, 1,000 bucks a month for, like, a studio apartment a block from Sunset. Like, right in Sunset Junction.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Um, and then I did move to Sunland Valley, like, to Hunger Canyon-

Mm

... for, like, a year.

What the fuck is that? I never heard, I never heard none of those words before.

It's like Montrose. You know Montrose? It's like-

Oh, I'm out.

It's like if you go-

No, I'm out

... if you... [laughs]If you go up the two towards the mountains, that's where I live

Oh.

It's not that far, but I mean, I, I know a lot of people buy, um, buy houses up there 'cause you can get a lot of land, and you can build like a sick-ass house for a small amount of money-

Yeah, you can go full-

... and still be able to dri- you could drive into LA, you know, get into Silver Lake in 10, 15 minutes.

Yeah, it's like, I mean, it's also like full Breaking Bad out there a little bit still. Like-

Yeah

... there are just like crosses on hills and, like, you can walk around naked, and, like, it's a whole, it's a vibe.

It's a little, we, you know, we don't, we don't call 911 type shit energy over there.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

We take care of ourselves.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yep. Mm-hmm.

Dude, there was-

I mean, you know, some people like to live like that in, uh, in Los Angeles.

I mean, there really was. There was a guy at the very end of... Like, the street turned into, I don't know, just sand at some point. But like a mile and a half down this, like, sand road, this guy literally lived on, like, this hill just surrounded by cacti. Like, that he had, like, built out, like, just, like, hundreds of feet of cacti. Like, that guy is, like, he is up there for the apocalypse.

A fortress.

A fortress.

That's cool.

Wild.

That's cool. I mean, that's the whole-

That's pretty cool

... California dream. Yeah, that's the California dream.

Yeah, 'cause we have a lot of, uh, we like to segregate our houses in Los Angeles with these large hedges for privacy so nobody can see in. But the cacti, it's a nice natural native plant, and it's, it's a real bad-guy deterrent. I don't wanna go through a cacti bush.

Yeah, and it's not even affor-

It's so prickly

... affordable. It's still high price.

There was also, like, a boat at the bottom of this, like, ravine on his property, which I thought was so interesting. I'm just like, "So if we go, like, full, like, apocalypse, like, the waters are rising, does he also have, like, an escape boat that he's-"

If shit gets biblical, I've got my boat ready to go.

That is so sick. Like, this dude [laughs] has everything.

[laughs] That's really smart, actually. That, I always forget about the water part of, of the apocalypse, so I'm glad you reminded me.

Don't sleep on the water part of the apocalypse, Chris.

I would be, I would be re- remiss if we didn't talk about you touring with Harold Stylish, one of the fav-

[laughs]

... one of our favorite-

The one. [laughs]

... one of our favorite reoccurring characters on this show that has never been on it.

Really?

I mean, I'm, I'm-

[laughs]

... a Harold head. I'm, I love the music.

One of our favorite marathon runners of all time, probably.

Yeah, he's my, my favorite r- my favorite runner, for sure. Um, but I... You, so you were in the band, but you also opened. You were doing double duty, or was that separate occasions?

I only did double duty for a sh- one show.

How did you feel after doing double... 'Cause that feels like a real haul. 'Cause this motherfucker's up there for three hours dancing around l- in his little sequins, so that's gonna wear you out.

It was, it w- [laughs] I luckily didn't have to do any of the sequins or, like, the real, you know, like, light on the toes thing. Um, I got to just kinda, like... When I was in his band, I was just wearing, like, a denim jumpsuit that, like, made me look like I was gonna get shot into space and got to just kinda, like, you know.

[laughs]

I played... He's the only man that I will ever play maracas for, like, ever in-

[laughs]

... ever, ever.

I, I've... Yeah, same. I'd play maracas for his little ass, too. Um-

Right? [laughs]

... is, so is the, is the-

Are we talking about the same thing?

I, I-

I was just gonna say, I was like, which really does just sound like a euphemism for forever.

Mm-hmm.

But, you know. [laughs]

How... Now, when you do something like that-

The words are the way

... it's always fascinating to me 'cause obviously you're a shredder, you're a professional. But how long do you have to learn all of these songs? Did you have enough time, or was it, like, a weird rush for whatever reason?

It was not so much of a rush. I mean, he hit me up, like, probably mid-February, something like that, before, um-

Okay

... and we, we got to rehearsals, like, at some point in April. So I had plenty of time to, like-

Okay, okay

... metabolize. And, like, the way they build those shows is just, it's so careful and meticulous, um, and really just, like... I mean, I love it so much. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I'm just like, I mean, I will, I will... I mean, I'll sit in the Berkeley practice shredding rooms, the sound proo- for forever.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so it was, I, it was a really wonderful experience that I felt like. I mean, there's still no way to really prepare [laughs] you for, like-

Yeah

... just screams at a volume-

Yeah.

Yeah

... that, like, you can't... Like, they're just like... And they're hitting you from every side of your body, so it's just, like... It's wild.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Now, do they, did they, did you retain some audience when you opened, or was it like, "Who is this bitch?"

[laughs]

Like, what's the vibe?

No, I mean, even still, like, on this last tour, like, you know, two years, three, almost three years later, like, people are still showing up saying, "You know, I saw you for the first time in Palm Springs, like, opening for Harry," or, "I saw you in London opening for Harry."

That's great. That's cool.

Yeah.

That actually works, like... 'Cause I feel like it's, it could go either way. When someone's that popular, their fans are either like, "I don't care about anything else," or they're willing to take in, you know, if, if, if they get the stamp of approval.

No, I honestly, like, I was a bit nervous opening for him generally because I feel like any female, like, within 100 feet of Harry Styles might get, like, something [laughs] thrown at them. So like I was a bit-

You got a red dot on your head just being near him.

Yeah.

I was a bit, I was a bit, like, anxious. But, like, the girls are, like, all of his fans are just so insanely sweet. I mean, like, and just genuine and, like, encouraging and just, like... I think they're aware of, like, the scale that, like, the whole thing is, the whole thing sits on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so it was just, like... It was cool. It was like, I don't know, just e- people yelling me, at me like, "You've got this," and then, like, throwing a bracelet at my face. Um, but, like, a cute bracelet-

Okay

... that, like, is like-

Of course

... you know, one of my, one of my song titles. Or, like, sometimes, like, I would show up, and, like, people would know, like, all of the lyrics, and I'm like, "How is that even... Did you guys, like, prep for this?"

I've heard about shit like, I've heard about shit like that. I've heard about shit like that before where it's like they're so into it, and they're so excited that they, like, do the homework.

Like-

Which is pretty awesome. I mean, that's best-case scenario.

Right. No, they show up, like, they show up, like, for the show experience. Like, they'll show up with, like, your face on a T-shirt. It's, like, crazy. It's really, it's beautiful.

I, I think, I, I suspect that it's so they can use you to get to Harry. I, you know?

[laughs]

Like, "I'm gonna endear her," and then, you know. 'Cause I, like, Chris and I, we interview a lot of people in the pod, and I'll get a DM or a message just like, "Can you, can you, um, introduce me to Lorde?"

Right.

"Can, can I go to Hozier's green room? I'm, I live in Bangladesh."

Right, right.

You know? Or, you know, like-

And, you know, we're just, like, you know, we're just vessels for the Lord.

[laughs]

Like, we're just conduits.

That's really-

You know? So, you know.

The Lord-

Would you do, would you do something like that again-

[laughs]

... or did you get your fill of sort of that lifestyle?

That's a really good question. I, I really did love it. I think-I would probably do it again and be much better prepared for it. [laughs]

Yeah, 'cause it feels, it feels like if you're really great at what you do and it's not about you, but you're getting paid really well and the travel is really nice, it seems like kind of the best version of being a professional guitar player.

Oh.

And someone is in charge of everything, and you just, you get your call sheet and that's it-

Yeah

... versus like-

Oh, it's like, it's best case, honestly. Oh, I, I di- I didn't know you meant being in his band. Yeah, I would drop of a hat, like-

I mean, no, I mean any band. I mean, like, other th- like, things like that. I feel like it's like-

Like Kid Rock's band or something, you know?

Yeah. Let's say Bob calls you-

Let's just go-

... and he's like-

... straight for Kid. [laughs]

[laughs]

I checked you out. I checked out your stuff, and I really like it.

I mean, I-

Mm-hmm

... I would definitely, I'm like ... And I, and I think I said this to, um, Harry Styles at some point, you know, like, that's not my normal, like, I don't, I'm not really in bands much. There are probably much more, uh, experienced people that you can, like, tap into, uh, especially being him. You know what I mean? Like, he could have anybody. But yeah, I don't know, like, being in a band is like, it's so nice to not have it be about you. It's so ni- like, I love singing, like, just muscularly. Like, it just feels really good in my body.

Mm.

And like, so it was really fun to just, like, be in somebody else's band and get to just like-

Maddie, it's cool. I feel the same w- I feel the same way about singing, but no one's really interested in hearing me do it.

[laughs]

It does, I feel it on a cellular level, but it-

Singing is like my Pilates. I don't know, just my body just really responds well to it.

It doesn't, it doesn't, people don't respond the way that-

[laughs]

... that I want them to, so I've had to sort of, I've had to sort of scale it back a little bit as far as-

[laughs]

... as far as that goes. But it's nice to hear someone else enjoy it as much as you do.

[laughs] I'm so sorry for your loss.

It's really nice.

You should do it more often.

Yeah, you should sing-

Do it professionally

... like all the time

I don't know. We'll see.

You should, like, try singing a lot.

Look into it.

Yeah, you should try it professionally. Are you going on tour again? Are you done for the year?

Uh, we'll see. I've had some, uh, business-

The fuck you mean we'll see? It-

After, after that R- Ryman show, you know, phone's been ringing.

We'll see.

Okay?

[laughs]

Made quite the impression.

I, I mean, I'm definitely gonna be playing shows all next year. That just, that's probably fact. But-

Sure

... um, I'm definitely, I'm, I, I like, when I get home from tour, I try not to, like, remember my name. I try to kind of like-

Mm-hmm

... brainwash myself for-

Yeah

... like a good four or five days. [laughs]

You just wanna lock yourself in your house by yourself, put on some comfortable clothes, smoke a little J, walk into the walls, fall asleep-

Is this-

... whenever you want to

... eh, is this gonna like, is this a YouTube th- like, are they gonna see my-

No, no, no. No, no.

Oh, thank God. Ugh, s- voice for radio, face for radio. This is my heaven.

No, I wasn't gonna comment on the Bonnie Bear wall-

[laughs]

... wall color, but that's, that's, that's a, uh, I didn't know you were such a fan.

Salmon is an interesting choice.

[laughs] You guys, it's Rosie Pashmina, okay?

[laughs]

It's called Rosie Pashmina, and I painted my wall.

Yeah, we're talking about the w- the color of your wall, not your drag name.

Yeah, that's, yeah.

We're talking about this kind of a pinkish salmon kind of color.

You ain't fooling anybody with Rosie Pashmina when you pull up to sing fucking-

[laughs]

It's-

... Dolly Parton at the lesbian bar.

[laughs]

[laughs] It's a Sherwin-Williams specialty.

Oh, okay.

[laughs]

The good folks over at Sherwin-Williams, they sure know how to make a nice bucket of latex, don't they?

Honestly, you know what bums me out? Their logo freaks me out. It's literally, it's cover the earth.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

And it's a bucket of paint-

Mm-hmm

... covering the planet, and I just, I didn't know it until I walked out with all of my buckets of paint, and I was like, "Never again." I just, it really, like, it-

It has a little i- Illuminati energy to it, doesn't it?

It does.

Freaked me out, man. Like, it's just, ugh, cover the earth in your weird latex.

What if Sherwin wants to cover the world with some dope vibes?

[laughs]

Maybe that's all Sherwin wants to do.

Maybe that's it.

[laughs] Oh, I love that.

It's also kind of Banksy-ish, right? Like, I fricking, I'm up everywhere, all over the world. Okay, Maddie.

Thank you, Maddie.

Thank you for, uh, podding with us and taking the time, uh, out of your alone time, your onion time-

Mm-hmm

... to pod with us. I think it was a success though, huh?

It's so many.

I think it was a success, too.

[laughs] Like, I really hope that I'm just, I feel like I'm just continuing to build my brand with Rosie Pashmina and onion alone time.

Well-

Like, this is-

[laughs]

Hey, man

... thanks so much.

These, these things are a reality.

Fellas, she's single, believe it or not.

Jason, play, my, my favorite song is Feel Something. It might be a little too dramatic for the end, but if, if, you know, just if you're feeling it.

Okay.

You know what I mean? It might be a little dramatic, but.

Okay. I, if, if Feel Something is too sad and slow for the, uh, the outro of this episode, I will be forced to play Kid Rock Picture-

Mm.

Oh

... featuring Sheryl Crow.

Please. Oh my God.

Or maybe I'll play both. Who's, who's to say?

At the same time.

Wow, that's-

I really hope.

Yeah.

This is Thanksgiving.

You can pan them, 'cause you know what that means.

My cornucopia is bountiful. Wait, I could pan them, is that what you said?

You can, you can pan them, 'cause you know what that mean. He's like, "Sorry, did you say that I could do something tech audio? I am listening."

[laughs]

"Go on." [laughs]

You want me to play two songs at the same side, at the same time, one left, one right? That sounds like a great-

I wish that you were here

... sonic experience.

Y'all are too, y'all are too crazy. Y'all are too crazy.

I'm dead. [laughs]

Um, all right. Maddie, Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks again.

Thanks for having me.

We'll see, we'll see you soon hopefully.

All right, I'll talk to y'all.

All right, later.

Bye.

Back to my lungs again. I used to think that every word you said was a little gift that I'd unwrap and then start dreaming about the next one I might get. I don't get, I don't get you. I don't get anything anymore. You can call me if you feel something. If you want me- Living my life ... to make you feel- Slow down ... something. Every night at the hotel. If so, how? If not, why? If I can't walk it out. I ain't seen the sunshine in three damn days. Feel.

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