881. - Nicky Campbell

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian, and they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world, and they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. [upbeat music] Konnichiwa. Uh, good morning, Jason. It's, um... It is 5:45 AM here in Tokyo. I'm looking at the sparkling lights over the city. The sun isn't up yet. This is feeling romantic and disorienting, two of my favorite feelings. Um-

Okay

... how are you, how are you doing? [laughs]

Lost in Translation ass. Shout out to our friend Cooper.

[laughs]

Um, I'm doing well. You know, you're going through it, 5:45 AM podcast start time is tough. Luckily, you are, um, BFT, built for this, whereas-

[laughs]

... I'm doing a late pod. This is 12:48 PM Tuesday afternoon, which means, you know, we're getting a late start over here in Glendale. It's okay. Well, I'll pro- I'll have to go out to dinner tonight. I won't have time to prepare a feast, unfortunately, which is rare for me.

[laughs] I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

I prepare feasts daily, so-

[laughs]

... um, today is very w- out of whack, I'll say.

Preparing feasts daily is such a cool... [laughs] Really?

Yeah.

Oh, man.

But normal day for me over here, it's, you know, mid- it's 75 degrees. It's beautiful. I might hit the beach tomorrow. I'm not joking. It's, it's... We're... It's a beautiful-

I hope that's like what it's like when I'm there next week. Actually, the weather in Tokyo has been kind of perfect, like a little, like sunny and a little chilly. It's real, you know, you can put your little jacket that you bought on, but it's not too crazy, which has been nice because I'm walking 30,000 steps a day or whatever, so.

Are you actually?

Yeah, yesterday. I mean, my dogs are barking like a motherfucker. It's crazy.

Did you, did you check your steps, Chris? That feels unlike you, I will say.

Uh, no, I checked my steps 'cause Brooke, we, we were talking about it. 'Cause Mike Nouveau is here and, and Brooks, um, who's a very old friend, who's doing production on Hanover, is also here. So we had a... Brooks and I went shopping yesterday, and he's an absolute maniac about it, so we were out all day long.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and you know, Jason, you know I like to shop, but-

[laughs]

... I don't... The, the, the way people come to shop here is like a different level that I don't think I'm comfortable with. [laughs]

Oh, okay. Okay. [laughs]

I think it's, I think it's like, I think it, I think it's cool and the, the retail experience, like the, like the... I went to the La Mer store, which is in like an old house. It's fucking beautiful. It's amazing.

Mm.

But like, I don't know, man. Eight hours of shopping, I'm not... I bought one jacket.

It is tough.

You know? I, I'm, I, I just don't know.

So for, for listeners who don't know, Japan known for crazy shopping, a lot of amazing stores, rare denim and streetwear and old stuff, and Americana, and ev- all kinds of stuff, but you're kinda like this, the game isn't funny anymore kind of? Like, you just, you don't wanna do ass to ass and everyone else is... Your, your homies are trying to push it?

I'm, I'm... No, no, I'm fine with it. I just, I, I don't think I realized how, uh, how deep it went.

Mm-hmm.

Pause. Which is, which is my, I mean, that's my own stupidity and I guess my-

Is it too, or is it too deep for you?

I wouldn't say that. I mean, I think it was-

[laughs]

... you know, yesterday looking at all the... When you're looking at vintage clothes for-

You took the whole eight

... when you're, when, when you're looking at vintage clothes for five hours and, you know, I care more than most people, but there's several levels above me, you know?

Yeah.

Where it's like, "Oh, okay. Sure. Yeah, this is... Yeah, it's cool. This is the 600th Barbour I've seen, and I already have 10," so I don't know what the, the-

The, this, th- this would make me feel good though. You know, it'd be like if I'm thinking to myself like, "Damn, I, I should probably stop drinking so much," you know? Holiday season, I'm getting a little puffy, blah, blah, blah, and then you just meet a fucking raging-

[laughs]

... fucking alcoholic person, you're like, "Oh, you know, maybe it ain't so bad after all."

I mean, the whole thing, like Brooks and I, like before dinner we had a little time to kill, we had to do the classic American move where you hit Muji 'cause he had to buy like a giant suitcase to check, you know, an extra because he, he-

Mm

... he bought so much stuff. But in his defense, he's buying references. It's like his job. You know what I mean? He's not just shopping to shop. So it was like interesting 'cause he's so knowledgeable. It was fun. I was like learning stuff.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself, man. Hey, I'm just, I'm a DJ.

But-

Drinking is part of the job. [laughs]

I mean, that's-

You know?

... that's also, that's, uh, I, I... That is true. I mean, that is true. But I'm, I'm ha-

It is true

... I'm happy to be here. I've eaten my weight in tuna. Um, so you know-

[laughs]

... that's, that's looking good. Uh-

[laughs]

... you know, but I'm at this-

Damn. You sound like Ellen up in here.

Uh, yeah. [laughs]

Chris Black the munch.

I'm a real eater when it comes to sashimi. Um-

Mm

... but we're on the... I'm at this, I'm at this new JW Marriott that opened, and it's in like a... It's in this crazy train station, so it is very easy for me to get places via, via train.

And you are in Tokyo, Japan, yes?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's, it's easy.

Oh, I'm looking at pics right now. Did they hook you up with the, with the blessed room?

Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, I mean, I'm on the 24th floor, so the view is really crazy. It's got the sauna, it's got the pool, it's got the gym. It's got everything I need, but it's very like-

Mm. Looks nice. I'm Googling it. Does, does your room have a water feature?

Uh, it has the, it has the bathroom that's like a whole room, and it's got floor-to-ceiling windows with a shower and the bathtub, so I'm looking out at the people of Tokyo while I'm cleaning the filth off every day.

Mm-hmm. While you're pulling tree? I'm with it.

Exa- [laughs] Exactly, yeah. I'm pulling tree. Uh-

[laughs]

But it, but the, but it's got this very, it, it's got this very like peaceful ambiance to it that I quite like. Like you don't really see-

In Japan? All right. If you say so.

I just mean you don't see other people really in the hotel. Like the way they have it set up-

Mm

... it's very, it's like you walk... It's, I don't know. It's, it's, it's very nice. I like it-

Okay

... a lot.

It's like a Japanese... You know, I think I've heard you talk about it before on a podcast.Were you discussing about how Japanese people just, they take whatever it is and they just crank it down and perfect it and hone it and just... But, and it's not appropriation, it's like admiration, you know, it's like a respect thing.

Yeah. No, th- that is, yeah, we were... Exactly, yeah.

But I'm saying they're, Japa- Japan has taken just discretion in a hotel-

Y- and- [laughs]

... and then just, you know, turned it into however they're treating the Neapolitan style pizza or the, uh, cortado or whatever in terms of perfezione.

I'm gonna have to go get pizza today. I'm, I'm desperate. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go find, I'm gonna go sit alone somewhere, uh, and, and have a pie. Real- really, really touch-

Okay

... really touch God. But yeah, it's been a long, uh, week, and then the, the travel day is just so fucked that you're sorta like, "I don't know where I am."

Yeah.

"I don't know what's going on." And that's, it, that's sort of the charm as well, I think, that you're here in this... Yeah, I think you have to stay here for fucking two weeks to, like, really get used to it as far as the time goes.

Okay. And I feel like you're s- are you staying for less than a week?

Uh, yeah, I would like to. Yeah. I, uh, I don't, I just don't-

No, how lo- how many days are you staying though, for reals?

Like six.

Okay.

Like six days I think, I think total.

Mm-hmm.

Which is, which is f- perfect for me. I don't, I don't need, I don't need three weeks to, like, discover a place.

No.

Yeah. I'm ha- I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be up. I'm happy to be podcasting. I feel like we've taken a little break 'cause of the way we scheduled it last week, and thanks to, to OPN for coming on. Thanks to Big Nuzzy, uh-

[laughs]

... who was, um, you know, a diabolical How Long Gone guest, uh, in the, in the be- the best way possible, um, that I, uh... Pe- people keep asking me what she was like, and I'm like, "Did you listen to the episode?" Because that-

[laughs]

... kinda tells you what she's... Like I don't, I can't offer much more in a wa- in the way of-

Yeah

... what she was like.

We, we didn't, uh, we didn't spend a week with her on the ranch in Albuquerque. We didn't get dinner with her.

Yeah.

We never met her.

Yeah, yeah. It's just-

The w- the hour that you heard was the hour that we had.

Yeah, we didn't do the, we didn't do the Rolling Stone profile in the '90s where we spent a week and a half with her and her parents, you know, like uncovering-

But I would, I would rather get that than all of the comments of, you know, people upset with me for not asking her about RFK, you know, ivermectin-

Yeah

... or something like that. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I, I c- I, I can't-

Sorry I didn't do that, y'all.

Yeah, no, it's, it's a pretty funny, uh, the, the burner, the r-

It's just bots though.

Yeah. The bo- the bot burner accounts are, uh, they, they really come out to play when it's a political, uh-

Oh my God

... it's, it's so funny. It's so funny 'cause it's, it's, it's just like, it, it just seems so, like what are we trying to do here, you know?

[laughs]

What are you, what can are you kicking down the road, chief?

Well-

'Cause this doesn't-

I, I mean, I feel bad for our, our nation's elderly and gullible because-

Mm

... you know, I could see how a lot of this stuff is absolutely working and, uh, captivating the minds of our-

That's true

... people my age and older, I guess, depending on where, where they live in-

Damn, bro

... the country.

Don't, don't do that to y-

[laughs]

Don't do that to yourself, big boy.

But I mean, um-

Don't do that to yourself

... but also very young people, you know what I mean? Uh, the door swing is both ways in, in terms of susceptibility to AI propaganda, but man, it's, it's loco out there, especially in the political arena. But I guess, you know, it's a sign that, you know, you're shaking things up. Climbing up that hill, running up that hill, climbing up that hill, running up that rock wall, um, I wa- I wanted to talk to you even though it's a little, little tired, but the mysterious source of income creative people-

Oh, yeah

... infographic meme that you appeared on.

Yeah. I caught a stray. I caught a stray.

[laughs]

But I, I, I [laughs] I mean, it's very funny.

I don't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that you caught a stray.

Well, only because they, it's a, it's a literal picture of me. That's the only [laughs] that's the only shit. It's not, it's not like a description. It's not like a loose description. It's a-

Yeah

... it's a-

But, but-

... it's a picture of me in my home. Uh, but yeah.

It's a picture of you in your home, but the caption says, "Vague creative job that is somewhat businessy. Consulting at a fund or just, like, at a company in the bio."

Mm-hmm.

So, um-

I mean, look, I'm not, I'm not-

I g- I guess it's only as vague, it's only vague if you're not a part of the, the creative world or business that you're in. You know what I mean?

I'm not, I'm not.

I look every day on somebody's bio and it says @, and then it's just like the most gay name of all time .ai.

Well, I think, I think-

And I'm like, "I don't know what that means."

I think I deserve this, of course, and I'm proud. I'm wearing this, I'm wearing... I mean, I'm not, I'm not gonna beat these charges in any way, shape, or form.

[laughs]

I, I, I've never, I've never been involved with a fund though. I will say that.

[laughs]

I, I will give myself that. Like I-

Yeah, but I feel like you're okay with that distinction perhaps.

I'm fine. I think it's all funny, and that g-

Could be worse

... that guy is really funny. Like they're, they're... 'Cause I think s- these things were so popular for a while, and the, and the key is the, like, the specificity, the specificity is, has to... This guy is so specific that it's so good that it really lands.

Mm-hmm.

And I did get, I did get tagged in that, and it's also, while you're do- while that's happening, uh, it, it came out like, I think the day or the day after the Hanover stuff came out, so I was like, "Yeah, I'm really not beating these charges."

[laughs]

There's absolutely no charges being beat. So I, I... Kudos to him. I, I think it's funny.

[laughs]

And I, and, um, thank you to everyone for sending it, because I, I, I actually-

I'm gonna give no kudos from me though. I don't like it.

You don't, what? You, are you defending my honor, or you just mean from a comedic standpoint?

No, no, no. Well, I guess a little bit of both, but it's like, here's a picture of a guy and it says, uh, "Hey, I, I just started a clothing company, and here's the name of it, and here's the website where you can buy it. Here's my podcast. Here's the name of it. Here's the website where you can listen to it."

It's not that vague.

"Here's my this." This is like-

Yeah. [laughs]

Where, where, where, when does the mysterious part start? You know what I mean?

I also think that no one... I, I just, I mean, we've talked about this before, but you know, when I started doing this kinda stuff, it was, it was, it felt very vague because no one knew what was going on, and now it's been ruined because every 22-year-old doesn't want a job.

[laughs]

So they have to figure out a way to make vague income, and whether that's on TikTok or, you know, consulting. So I, you know, it is, it is a bigger, it's in the zeitgeist I would say much bigger than it ever has been.

Yeah. Um, maybe I don't like it because I can't tell if it's meant to be complimentary or insultory. You know what I mean? Like-

I think that's the success. I think that's what makes it a success actually-

[laughs]

... is that line where you're like, "I don't know if this is a compliment or if you're making fun of me."

But I, I, but it, it's written in a potentially insultory tone, but it's-It's commending all things that are good

Yeah

Like, this fucking guy's got a fucking Bottega bag and got a, you know... Or, like, I thought that was... Or, like, he's always traveling, but doesn't talk about it. Like, that's exactly what you should be doing.

Also, I do, I-

Isn't this all good stuff?

[laughs] I do travel a lot, and all we do is talk about it. What do you mean? [laughs] Like, that's all we... That's literally all we do. I mean, I guess maybe in a, in a public sense, but I, I don't know. I guess I feel like, I guess a podcast is a bridge further than, like, Instagram or Twitter, I guess. I, I don't know.

It is.

I agree. I- that one is a little confusing. That one's a little confusing.

I think, I think the overarching thing where it's, uh, you know, where, where it's listing what this mysterious source of income person, you, could be, and it says they're, they're either f- one of four things: a grifter, generationally wealthy, striving, or any two of the above. So I think the, the, the thing that I don't like is that just because somebody doesn't have a LinkedIn page does not mean that they are a, a grifter or a nepo baby or generationally wealthy. It just means they're not a fucking dork.

There's... Yeah. There's nothing I would rather be more than a nepo baby or generationally wealthy. I don't know why we-

[laughs] Yeah

... these things have tu- these things have turned into negatives, but I think we would all like our lives to be a little easier, with a few caveats. Like, your dad's an alcoholic actor or-

[laughs]

... y- you know, whatever. I mean, I think we could all live with that if we, if we had to, you know, if we absolutely had to.

We could. I could figure out a way.

I could fi- [laughs] I could figure out a, I could figure out a way. Um, all right, yeah, we do have a guest today, uh, Nikki Bell. You probably know, uh, from his, uh, work on the World Wide Web, um, sort of reviewing the red carpet, skewering the celebs, giving his, his feedback, um, on, on outfits and, and the world at large. He's also a stylist, um, and just a funny, a funny guy that I, I quite like, and I think this is the crossover the world needs. I can't wait to talk to him about, uh, Timmy and Kylie and the matching orange chrome hearts last night at the, uh-

Mm-hmm

... Marty Supreme premiere with the, the chrome hearts ping pong paddle crossbody holder.

At the Nickelodeon Kids Choice Aw- I mean, in Marty Supreme.

He looked like an... He was dressed up like a fucking Nickelodeon Kids Choice Award. That's what he looked like, looked like.

Recent Forbes 30 Under 30. Go off. But yeah, he's a, he's a funny guy on social media. Everyone likes to watch his commentation and styling criticisms.

Let's see how late he is. He's already two minutes.

[sighs]

I'm gonna give him till five after before I-

Yeah, he tried to go early, this little bitch. All right, let's give him a call. [beep]

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

Three times a week. And I, I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother.

Yeah, R- Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, uh, Stateside.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's three times a week. And, and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say.

[laughs]

Give, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, "You're fine," you know, "Drink more water."

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly. As if-

That's about it

... as if I could drink more water, doctor. I, I, I don't get data. I don't get a game plan. I just get a pat on the ass and get out there and, and make it better. But SuperPower is doing something different. SuperPower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak. It's a simple blood draw, one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Uh, their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, and even environmental toxins. Ooh, ooh. So from disease prevention-

[laughs]

... to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go. SuperPower is more comprehensive and advanced system out there.

Make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with SuperPower. For a limited time, How Long Gone listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to superpower.com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership. That is code HOWLONG, and after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about SuperPower. Do us a favor if you could and tell them How Long Gone sent you, and that'll just support us. Thanks.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good, and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own, but the truth is, no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris, and sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody, even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to s- be in the same room with them because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself, and that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over six million people globally are using it, and you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh, you know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, "Damn, I really am him." You don't have to be on this journey alone.... find support and have somebody with you in therapy, sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is betterH-E-L-P.com/howlong.

Hi, boys.

Thank you for joining us on How Long Gone today. You're... Okay, so you're wearing your, your North Face Nuptse, a classic winter coat, but you seem to be indoors. What's going on?

Well, listen, I would love to know, because the heat is, uh, is not giving the temperature that I would like it to be at.

[laughs]

The, your heater is not giving heat? Is that what you're saying?

It's not radiating in the way it does, but I, it might also be because I, I complained, because in the past it's actually been too strong and I'm like, "I can't be comfortable. You know, I can't be comfortable this way." So I don't know. Maybe I, maybe I affected something.

Yeah. How long, how long have you lived in New York? 'Cause you realize that's like every winter that happens i- if you don't, you know, because of the way the, the city is set up and your radiator is controlled by God, not, not by you.

Guess you're right, but I haven't clocked into that until lately. I've been here for, like, t- I went to school here, so I've been here for almost 10 years, my 10-year anniversary.

Oh, how does it feel? You're, well, you're getting a, you're getting a green card now.

It feels awful. I think I have to leave. I keep, like, brainstorming where I should go.

Where is your ass gonna live besides... You're fr- Are you from LA?

I am from LA. Born and raised, baby.

Okay. So if you don't go back home... Also, Nicky, your, your f- your camera is completely frozen, by the way.

Let's turn it... Let's just turn it off. Let's just turn it off.

I know. What is that about? Oh, wait, I think I'm coming back.

Probably just your Wi-Fi speed. You got no heat.

I think-

You got no fucking Wi-Fi.

[laughs]

I don't know.

I thought you were doing well. You, these videos get a lot of views, bro, but if you can't get the Wi-

[laughs]

I don't know what's going on with you, bro.

Listen, listen, it's hard out here.

This does feel-

I'm trying

... this does seem better though, actually. I don't know what's going on.

Don't jinx it.

Okay. Something, something happened. Okay. So you, you are from, born and raised in LA. You turned 18.

Yeah.

You went to Parsons, studied fashion. You've been in New York ever since, but now you are considering maybe leaving because New York is killing you. Outside of Los Angeles, are there any other places that are seriously in contention?

I just got back from London, and I kind of heavily fuck with it there.

Mate.

Love London, yeah.

Same.

It's beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. I love the accents. The accents are really rich.

Mm.

Um.

You mean rich in like-

Same, yeah, same

... say more when you say rich

... aristocracy or, or rich? [laughs]

Uh, sexually, it arouses me.

Got it.

Oh, got it, got it. All right.

And I find that rich.

What's the gay vi- What is the gay vibe in, in London?

The gay vibe is... I, I don't feel like I've explored it. It's not as slutty as New York, you know what I mean?

Yeah, maybe we should ask you that question, Chris. You probably know a little bit more than Nicky does.

That's what I was gonna, that's what I was gonna guess.

About the gay vibe in London?

That's, do not do that-

Yeah, I mean, he's, he's spent a lot of... So he's not sucking and fucking, but, you know, he's spent a lot of time in those spaces.

Right. Right.

Perhaps more than you.

It does, but I f- Nicky, it does, it feels like it's at least a little more behind closed doors, if nothing else.

Yes, that is correct.

Okay.

You know.

No fucking in the streets.

They're very closeted in that way.

Clandestine.

[laughs]

I, maybe you're into, maybe you like to keep it low, so that's... I mean, it depends on how many straight guys are part of this, you know. Then you gotta keep it quiet.

I'm open.

Yeah. When you were in London, over, under on, um, on straight versus-

I'm open, no shit. You guys are all open.

Yeah. It's like I'm literally open to whatever. Mm-hmm.

You're not looking to flip-

Holes or whole

... but you're saying if a straight guy is interested, y- that, that doesn't hurt his, his case with you.

No, it do- it does not hurt the case at all. I mean, it depends on what their face looks like, but-

[laughs]

... it doesn't generally hurt the case, no.

Yeah.

No.

I think that, I think that goes across the board as far as every dating or sexual relationship, but I'm glad that you pointed out-

Yes

... pointed that out.

Yeah. Well, thank-

I think that's nice.

Yeah, of course. I'm really observant.

When I'm thinking about what guys to date, I think what their face looks like really depends a lot on that one, yeah.

Yeah. Well, it can, it can change literally everything. It will change everything.

It could change everything.

Yeah.

You know, suddenly, suddenly nothing matters and, or suddenly everything matters, you know? [laughs]

So you're in, so you're in London, and you're... Are you kicking the tires? Are you looking at le- at leasing a property? Are you looking... How, how far? Is this just a, a pipe dream at this stage?

So it's still a pipe dream, but I'm threatening it, like, every single day, and I'm just, like, hoping that it will stick.

Threatening it, threatening it to whom? Your friends and family or yourself?

Yeah. To just, like, everyone.

The universe.

You know?

Okay. [laughs] Just to anyone with ears.

I think literally anyone that I meet, I'm like, "By the way, I'm moving."

I'll fucking do it, bitch.

Yeah.

I'll fucking move. I don't even give a fuck.

I'm ready to. I just, like, I just... 'Cause maybe then they'll start bullying me into, like, being like, "I thought you were moving to London." Then I'll be like, "Yeah, I guess I should do that."

Oh, accountability.

Yeah.

But yeah, but let's talk about what, um, what Mama Campbell thinks about you getting even further away from her Los Angeles home.

I'm sure she doesn't like it. I mean, um, this year for my parents is, they're like, "What the fuck are you doing?" [laughs]

Mm-hmm.

"What's going on? What's happening?" You know.

But why this year? This is the year that you have blown up on social media. You should be like, "I'm represented now, parents." Like-

Cor- yes

... the, they're gonna get a good Christmas present this year, right?

Yeah, they're gonna get a hand-me-down Gucci freebie, but he's saying-

[laughs]

[laughs]

He's saying w- what he-

That's so funny because that actually is what I was literally going to do.

Yeah, you should. I mean-

They're, they're getting tons of cosmetic.

Yeah. They, yeah-

Yeah, all of it

... all of a sudden have the full Glossier collection.

[laughs]

Mom, you li- y- you like Rhode, don't you? Uh, well, I think that, I think your parents probably, I'm gonna guess that your parents wanted you to be, like, a doctor or a lawyer or something, and then instead you've done something different, let's say.

Correct. Correct. I mean, they both have, like, PhDs and are very, like, academic in that way, and then there's sort of-

Hold on, bitch. Your parents both got PhDs?

Oh.

Yeah.

And you're out here on TikTok?

And here I am on-

You're a TikTok head? [laughs]

And here I am on TikTok. [laughs]

[laughs]

I know.

Okay. What about siblings? Do you have any siblings that are making them proud?

Um, I have a, I have an older sister that works in consulting, so like, yes.

Okay.

Oh, yeah.

And she went to my dad's alma mater.

Which is... Wait, wait, I want to, I need to understand the level of education we're talking about. Are we, are we going Ivy League?

No, she didn't do... She went to University of Michigan, which was actually more important to my father.

Mm-hmm.

And then she went to Northwestern. She got a master's. She's lacking on the PhD, so they're not super thrilled about that, but, um-

[laughs]

But it's still better than me running around Parsons and they were like, "What are you doing?"

And you finished, and you finished college, though. You finished college.

I unwillingly did finish college, yes. I did.

What was your, what was your degree in, if you don't mind me asking?

That's so invasive. I would never answer that. Um, I majored in this really random kind of made up major called strategic design and management.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, okay, okay.

Does that mean anything to you?

[laughs]

I mean, people say I have a vague job. Let me say what, let me tell you something, that-

[laughs]

That, that deg- that, that deg-

Strategic design and management?

Yeah, what are you designing-

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

... and what are you managing? I-

Yeah, those are just words

... I don't know. I don't... But this is cloth- So you wanted to be a designer of clothing.

But that sounds more impressive to your parents than, like, hemming.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean? Or whatever.

Yes.

Or draping.

Yes. It's a, it's a, it's a BBA. I was-

You have a minor in draping?

Yeah, yeah, a minor in draping. [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

Yeah, I ha- I had some credentials. It actually was a fun... It was actually really cool. I didn't even really know what it was when I joined it. I just wanted to go to Parsons and be in New York, and I was like, "This could be interesting." But it's actually really good if you wanna start your own business. It's a lot of, like-

Mm

... creative entrepreneur... It's like-

Mm

... raising funding, like-

Mm-hmm

... R&D.

Okay.

Just, like, a lot of, like, good, the building blocks if you, if you are, like, a entrepreneur.

Good. It seems like good, good things to learn-

Mm

... if you're an influencer like yourself.

Totally. I mean, I forgot all of them, but yeah, I, I do think that.

Of course, of course.

Yeah.

W- so what era-

Playing around

... what era were you in New York? Where were you going? What were you doing when you were a, a younger man? Like, what was your nightlife-

Oh my God

... scenario?

I feel like I went out all the time, constantly. Well, I was really gross when I first moved here, and like, I went to a lot of cl- you know, like Gilded Lily.

Bro.

That was, like, my scene.

Wow.

It was like a Gilded Lily, like, up and down time. [laughs]

Bro.

Gilded Lily.

I'm sorry to hear that.

It was.

I'm, I'm sorry to hear that.

You've come so far, Nicholas.

You really have come so far.

I had the time of my life.

They weren't doing the London Fashion Awards at the, at-

No

... at Gilded Lily, I'll tell you that.

[laughs]

[laughs]

I lo- I miss it there. I loved it there. That was, like, the era, that was the, that was my club era, and then I mo- and then I progressed into, like, Paul's Baby Grand and-

Okay.

Mm-hmm

Yeah

... Casa Blanca and, and whatnot, and that was, I guess, a little more respectable in, in some-

Definitely

... in some eyes.

Definitely a step up.

It is a little more respectable.

Yeah.

But I knew that you had a bottle rat phase. I can see it now-

I know

... at, you at the table.

I always wanted to be a bottle girl. I was always so envious of them.

You could still do it, I guess. [laughs]

I don't know. I'm not as skinny as I used to be. I was so skinny.

[laughs]

[laughs]

I just was, like, cleaning out my closet, which is why everything is so crazy, and it's like, I was going... I had to have the moment where I was like, "I'm not a size zero anymore, and, like, I never will be again, and these have to go to the RealReal."

I, I think you... Look, I think you could be. Let's not... We- well, there's, there's help out there. You can get help, okay? If it's really... You know what I mean? You can get help. There are people you can talk to.

From who?

Okay, so you, you were, you were a size zero?

I was a size zero. I was, like, a size-

You, you know that you're a, you know that you're a man. You know that you're a man, right?

So I was so sm- well, that's debatable, first of all.

[laughs]

I was, I'm so small that I did not, until, like, shit you not, like, two years ago, fit into men's pants.

[laughs]

That's how small my waist was.

Okay, what, can you give us the waist in inches? We don't know what zero means. Uh, all the fellas listening.

I was, I was a 24 inch, yeah.

24.

24 inches.

Like, 24, 25?

Yeah.

Damn.

I know.

What about the ass?

The ass wasn't there. Like, there was no ass to be found.

Okay.

Yeah, I was about to say there, I was about to say-

Yeah

... if you, if you're wearing a 24, you, you basically-

[laughs]

... you ain't... It's stick and bone. It, that's, that's like some-

Stick and bone, baby. But I pulled still in a different way, and now I think I'm too fat to pull in the same way that I did.

First of all, you're-

[laughs]

What, w- pull, pull the jeans over your butt or pull men?

No, dick, like men.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Okay, can you drop the waist size now?

It's, like, 28, 30.

Honey.

Yeah, it's called, it's called being a man, and you've, you hit puberty finally, and this is what ha- this is kind of what happens.

I don't like this.

[laughs]

[laughs]

And I never agreed to it.

I don't like this.

Nikki, you can't go in too deep into the Brian boy territory, you know what I mean?

Right. [laughs]

Do you want... I mean, I know you wanna wear, like, women's Phoebe Philo desperately, but I think it's probably better if you wear jeans and a North Face.

We're, we're saying a 28 inch waist as an adult man is still-

I know

... quite svelta.

That, yeah.

You should be proud of that.

Really?

It's very difficult to pull off. Yeah.

To give you, to give you some, to give you some context, I mean, you're talking to two guys that are in the 34, 36 range, which, uh, don't throw up, but-

My God, that is enormous. That really is.

[laughs]

But you are, you guys are freakishly tall humans.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean-

So it's more, it's more appropriate.

It is more appropriate, but I think-

Yeah, I don't think anyone would consider us fat. But if you're just going by, you know, waists, inches-

I think people consider... I mean, I consider me fat, but that's a personal issue. You know what I mean?

That's different, though.

I think, I think-

That's different

... we all have-

Oh, really? Do you wanna talk about that?

[laughs]

Well, I gr- I grew up, I grew up fat, so I'm in recovery as a, as a-

Oh my God, those are, like, the best people, like the guys that used to be fat and then got really snatched.

That, I mean, I think I still have a long way to go until, quote unquote-

They're more generous in the bedroom, even despite how hot they've become, right?

... really snatched.

Yeah, totally. They have an origin story. They have personalities. That's why you're funny.

That, it does, I do, I say all the time, it forces you to be f- I mean, I've said a lot of mean stuff to skinny people, but they can take it, you know?

[laughs]

They've been, they've been blessed by God.

Yeah.

And I haven't. I've had to fight for this.

But people think that you're very funny, Nikki, but you were not fat, so your origin story was just, like, scary skinny?

Getting... Yes.

[laughs]

Which can go, like, in a different-

How mean were, how mean were you-

Right, yeah. It made me, like, mean

... how, yeah, how mean were you in high school?

Yeah, the opposite way.

Were you considered a bully?

No, I was... Well-

Well, actually, what city was this in, in Los Angeles, first? Let me, paint me a picture.

What city was this in? I [laughs] that's such a funny question.

Not really.

Um, I grew up in Hancock Park.

Oh, okay. Do you know it?

Oh, yeah, he gr- okay, he, he grew up tough. Wrong side of the tracks.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I've heard of the Inland Empire. I'm sorry to hear that.

Pool, okay, pool or no pool?

But wait for it.

Pool or no pool? Answer the question.

But-

Pool or no pool? Answer the question

... uh, but let me tell you... Well, I'll answer this first.

[laughs]

Don't worry about that. I had to go to school in Studio City.

Uh, what's the name of the school?

Which private school did you go to? [laughs]

[laughs] The name of the school is Campbell Hall.

Yeah, we're familiar with that name.

Oh.

Yeah.

Oh, no, I had to go to the most prestigious private school in Los Angeles-

[laughs]

... where every child actor in the history of the world and, and singer and famous person went. That's a tough slog.

Listen, baby, when you're getting off the 101 on Ventura every day, it's like-

Okay, so you... All right

... it's not as glamorous as it sounds. [laughs]

So you're, you, you would pull up, you would pull up in your p- in your pink three series at Campbell Hall.

[laughs]

[laughs]

And then, and then who were some of your, who were some of your classmates? Did you have any-

Yeah, so you had to get bussed in from the hood into Campbell Hall. What was it like?

Yeah, it was, it was, it was rough. [laughs]

[laughs]

Um, I actually did take a school bus, though, for the record. That was kind of exciting.

That was probably for a photo shoot, not for reals, dude.

It, it, the school bus for-

For what? For your water polo team?

For Campbell Hall was a Mercedes Sprinter with TVs in it. [laughs]

[laughs]

Um, it was really, it was-

What was your, what w- what was your school uniform, and did you freak it?

My school uniform? So, you know what was nice was that we had a dress code, not a uniform.

Mm.

Okay.

So you could freak it a little bit, and then they gave us free dress Fridays.

Free dress Fridays. So you would-

So you could really freak it on the Fridays

... so okay, if it's, it's, you're in, let's say you're in, a junior in high school. It's free dress Friday. What is the fit? Like, what are we coming through in to really shut it down?

Ugh, archival what?

No, this is not... It's Abercrombie & Fit. It's fucking Gap.

[laughs]

It was so awful. I don't actually even remember what it was. I went through, like, a really sporty phase. I was wearing, like, a lot of, like... Actually, what was I wearing? I don't even remember. I've kind of blocked it out, and I've burned a lot of those photos. [laughs]

Were you shopping at, like, Kitson? Like, what, you know what I mean? Or were you going to-

No

... or were you-

I don't think... You're, you're not that old. You're, you're still-

Oh, yeah, you're not that old. That's old, yeah

... you're dripping young. You're what, like, 28, something like that?

I'm 28. Thank you. I'm 29.

Okay.

So thank you for going down.

Oh, God, you're tw- you're tw- you're 20, you're 29?

Yeah.

Goddammit.

[laughs]

Yeah. Why?

'Cause.

Why goddammit?

Because I just don't like it. I don't like that you're-

Chris is into older guys.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

I am. I like guys my own age or, or older, just 'cause they usually have more money and a nicer house, you know.

How old are you?

[laughs]

43.

Oh, wow.

Oh. Oh, great. Nice answer.

That's cool.

[laughs] That's cool.

That's nice.

It's cool.

Oh, great.

Oh, that's, that's cool.

That's, that's cute. That's cute for you.

That's a... Yeah, sorry.

So we're moving from Hancock Park-

Yeah

... up to Campbell Hall. We're freaking it on Fridays, and then were you, like, were you, like, a popular fashiony kid that everyone loved, or were you a little more-

No, I was beloved, and I was-

'Cause, 'cause you didn't have a fatty phase, and you were beloved. Yeah, yeah.

No, I was beloved, and everyone loved me, and I was really popular.

[laughs]

It was fun. It was, like, a fun [laughs] it was a fun way to grow up. I was kinda that person that was just, like, friends with everybody. I could, like, I could mingle. I could mix and mingle.

Were you ga- were you gay yet, or no?

I was, like, gay, but in a way that we weren't really discussing until senior year.

Okay, so you were out... So senior year it was like, "I'm out and fabulous now. It's my time"?

Yeah. Yes, I'm out and fabulous, and it, it is my time. [laughs] But I wasn't really gay like that. I was, like, you know, I was, like, more, more DL in a way.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're really giving DL with a 24-inch waist, I gotta say.

[laughs]

That's really, that's really, that really screams DL to me. [laughs]

And I wore the skinniest jeans.

You had the, you had the rockstar skinnies on. D- how did your parents-

Yeah, they did

... now how did your parents take it? Was it a classic, "We know, sweetie," or was it a, a more of an emotional rollercoaster?

I would say it was a, "We know, sweetie," but it, but it, there were emotional undertones for sure.

[laughs]

Um, but it was like a, "We know, sweetie." I mean, my mom was always asking me, like, once a year, she'd be like, "Are you gay yet?" And I was like, "I don't fucking wanna talk about that right now."

[laughs]

Like, "Can we move on?"

[laughs] I don't wanna talk about that right now.

You know?

I'll take out the trash, I guess.

Yeah, exactly. Like-

So your mom is asking you every year if you're gay yet. Your dad's in the garage hitting the heavy bag, drinking beers-

Correct

... ab- about it.

Correct.

Okay, got it.

That was the vibe, and then my sister was just, I don't even know where she was.

She goes... [laughs]

And yeah.

There's a lot of those guys in Hancock Park, Jason. You know that.

[laughs]

There's a lot of those guys.

[laughs]

Okay. Okay. Wow. This is... Okay.

Yeah.

After, after Colla- or I mean, after Campbell Hall, then you go to Parsons in New York City, begin your club rat phase, and then you started working Vogue, Tom Brown?

Mm-hmm. That was, that was the, that was the trajectory.

What'd you do with Tom Brown?

I did whatever they wanted me to.

He got, he got, he got Matt F- Matt Foley his coffee and-

I did.

[laughs]

... made sure K-

I did-

... Kelly's nails were always done.

I did whatever Kelly and Mr. Matthew wanted me to do, and I was-

The thing is, I, I... The thing is, I would-

... did it with a smile

... I would also do whatever they told me to do with a smile, and have, basically.

Well, they were-

I, for some reason, I just-

Yeah

... trust them.

I was deeply, deeply intimidated. I was, like, shake- you know, I was like, "What do you want?" 'Cause they, 'cause they were just, like, so hot and so tall and so, like, fierce and so s- so thin.

They're really, they're really hot, but what I always tell, what I always tell people, what I always tell people about Matt and Kelly is that they're such a pleasure to be around and act-

Yes

... and so ni- nice and easy, and it's because they're, they're, they know how hot they are, and they have to act accordingly.

Mm.

Because if you're that, if you're, if you're, if you're blessed by God and you look like that-

Yeah

... if you're a dick, people are like, "Yeah, he's a fucking dick." If you're nice, it's like, "Oh my God, this is the greatest thing I've ever witnessed."

That's correct.

Like, you're smart and funny and cool, and you look like that? It's, it's in- it's power. It's real power.

Yeah. They, they did not use their power for evil. They were actually reallyKind and lovely and-

They're turn- yeah, 100%.

Everything was, everything was great. I m- and when I started there it was like, there was no one really else there. It was, like, not the, not the team that they have now, you know? It was like-

Yeah, yeah

... it was, it was a little more grassroots.

So you were there before Chris was working with them even.

I wonder if we crossed pa- it's crazy, we might have crossed paths at some point.

You guys hold brothers?

Like, were you, were you, were you around during [laughs] were you around during the LeBron era?

Uh, yes, I was around during the LeBron era.

I wonder how we, I wonder how... 'Cause we were going to Barcelona all the time to dress FC Barcelona. That was, like, a big thing that I worked on.

Yes.

And I would, I would, I was in the office-

Yep, yep, yep

... relatively often. That's so funny. I didn't realize.

Lil Uzi playing football, I remember that.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, I threw a touchdown pass to, to Uzi. I don't wanna f- I mean, you know, I don't wanna stunt.

[laughs] Did you?

Yeah, I don't wanna stunt. I mean, he's not a great athlete, but-

Okay

... I'll never forget that Thom Browne football because his bodyguards were just laughing at him while he was trying to play football.

[laughs]

And it was... And they, they were, like, guys that clearly had played football at some level, and they were just laughing at him.

That's fun for everyone.

And he's the small, little guy.

He's a very little guy. What was your... Okay, so i- in th- this makes more sense now because th- you sound like the perfect body type for the Thom Browne uniform n- now that you're saying.

I didn't have the height, but I had the, the, the petite frame.

What size were you in Thom Browne? A 1? A men's 1?

It was a men's maybe. I think that was a little too big for the end, they did have to take it in.

[laughs] God bless.

I know.

I'm swimming in this 1.

And did you leave-

I know

... did you leave the taps on the shoes or did you take them off? I'm pro-tap.

I left them.

Yeah. Hell yeah. Real ones leave the tap.

I left them.

Real ones leave the tap.

I like that.

I love it.

I think it's-

I love it

... the way to be.

Okay, so if your time at Thom Browne was so magical and awesome, why did you leave and why have you not worked at any other fashion houses?

I wanted to leave because I was more interested in the editorial side of things.

Mm-hmm.

And so when I was there I w- then I went to Vogue, and then I was like, "This is interesting, but also-"

[laughs]

"... not my vibe." [laughs] And then, and then I went to CFDA, and then I, and then, you know, it was like I never went back to a brand. But I, I would g- I like working for, I actually like working for a brand, but you have to really deeply fuck with that brand, otherwise it's-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... not fun.

No, I think that's what's... No, I mean, I think-

Yeah

... that's the thing about Thom, is that, like, everybody there is there 'cause they want to be a- and it doesn't-

Yes

... you know, which is, like, a pretty rare... Where Vogue, I mean, that's a... The, the beauty of Vogue is that no one there needs to be there financially, and that's why things, that, that's why it's such a beautiful situation.

Right.

And one that I've always deeply respected. There's nothing better than-

Yes

... hot pe- hot people that don't need jobs-

[laughs]

... you know, busting their ass.

Showing up for the love of the game.

'Cause they just love it.

Yeah, yeah. It's beautiful. It was a beautiful environment in that way.

So you're, so you're currently a free agent doing your own content, doing influencing or, or is there something we don't know about?

I'm a free agent, baby.

You have se- you have several team members, though. You're not out here alone. I'm sure you have an assistant and a, you know-

We have, like-

... a manager, agent.

We?

I n- you know what? So fu- well, now I do. Yes. I have, like, a, I have a manager and agent. I used to have a publicist. I sort of don't need them, so I kind of got rid of them.

Do you have a cameraman?

I have a ca- I have people that I hire for, like, to produce my show that I do.

So when you're doing your, when you're doing your popular videos, that's literally you in bed with the front-facing camera.

Yeah.

And then do you edit, do you edit those yourse-

Yep. Me, me and that Alex Earl light. [laughs]

Do you edit those yourself or do you, do you have somebody that edits them?

I edit them myself. I've tried to outsource. I think it's a thing I just can't, I can't outsource it.

Yeah.

It's like they never get my vision, and I have to do it, I have to do it myself. I'm so anal about that stuff.

The timing is very specific, I'm sure.

Yes. The timing's specific and-

There's a flow

That feels like a smart use of your time, because that's still everyone's, or, or most people's introduction to you. So you wanna keep that-

Correct

... as, as tight as possible.

Yes. It feels like the thing that I can't really let anybody, anybody touch, but that's... But other things, I'm happy to be outsourced.

The beauty that... What I like of it is when I can tell that you're hungover. That's my favorite.

Oh my God.

That, that's my favorite.

And you know what? It's a lot.

[laughs]

It's, it's a lot of the time.

[laughs]

What is Revolve Man, Jason? It's... Oh, funny you ask.

What's a Revolve Man?

It's a r- a place where guys who care about how they look go to shop. Revolve Man is stocked with only the elevated essentials and trend-forward styles from brands like Polo Ralph Lauren, Salomon, Fear of God Essentials for our hoopers out there, and more. It's not fast fashion and it's not stuffy. It's the sweet spot between looking intentional and not looking like you tried too hard. That's what we're all trying to accomplish out here, Jason. New arrivals drop twice a week with free two-day shipping and next-day options, plus returns are genuinely easy.

Genuinely, yeah. It's one of those things, we're all busy. Let's say we got an important dinner coming up at the end of the week. It's Tuesday. You're working every single day. You don't have time to go shopping and try clothes on and blah, blah, blah, or even just browse. You know, Revolve, it's all there. It's all curated for what you want, and then you click buy, you go to bed. Couple days later, that shows up in packaging that's a little nicer than the, the other places you're buying clothes from, and you've got a nice look for the big night out. And then you're like, "Wait a minute. I don't even have to return this because I enjoy this clothing and I wanna wear it again another time," versus all those dumb other websites. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last-minute that actually works, Revolve Man always has it. Go to revolveman.com/howlong to shop and use code HOWLONG for 15% off your order, free two-day shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That is revolve.com/howlong and use the promo code HOWLONG to get 15% off your entire order. Offer ends soon. Don't sleep on it. And you don't need clothes too. You can get just, you know, a cool candle or an incense gift for a baby shower, whatever it is. Revolve.com/howlong.

Hi, Talk House Network listeners. It's your old friend Nels Cline from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan; Chautauqua, New York; Lafayette, New York; Bethlehem, Pennsylvania; Vienna, Virginia; Forest Hills, New York; Portland, Maine; Tulsa, Oklahoma; Memphis, Tennessee; LaGrange, Georgia; Charleston, South Carolina; Virginia Beach, Virginia; Wheeling, West Virginia; and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson, that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilcoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer

Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end DJ, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. [cheering] Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit redbull.com/brightsummerahead to learn more. See you this summer.

I mean, 'cause if we're, we're, we're talking about a, an event that just happened last night, and, you know, a lot of times you were there or at the after party for it, so-

Yes

... I think it's better. And, and we like consuming that content when we're hungover ourselves.

Oh, really? That's funny. I, I feel like I would have a voice that would not be maybe conductive to, to, to a hangover.

It's a great idea.

Yeah, no, it absolutely-

Yeah, it's great, yeah

... kills my nerves-

Yeah, still

... but I can't get enough of the information, you know?

Right.

I can't help myself. I'm a j- I'm a junkie. [laughs]

That's ni- that's beautiful. Thank you for saying that. A nice thing to say.

Well, what is, what's your drink of choice, Nicky?

Anything with tequila.

Okay.

I lately have been doing a tequila on the rocks with a little bit of lime juice.

Yeah, uh-huh.

That's, that's a, that's very size zero behavior.

[laughs]

That's very size zero behavior.

[laughs]

Well, the calories in a margarita, don't even-

Oh, yeah

... look into that.

Don't worry. I don't look, I don't look at any calories.

No enchant?

That's part of my journey.

Oh, okay. Got it.

Okay. So now, now that the videos are gaining popularity, you're doing other video related content, you and other celebs and fashion people are criticizing other people's looks, follower counts growing and growing. Do you think you're gonna hit a point where you get too big to be able to say mean things about other people?

No, I don't think so.

Who's confronted, who's confronted you though? I know somebody's confronted you.

I wouldn't say a lot of people have confronted me, actually.

No, you, you're telling me Lupita Nyong'o hasn't kinda taken you into the corner and been like, "Bitch, what, what-

[laughs]

... what'd you, what'd you say, bitch? I'm Lupita."

This little fucking twink.

"You don't understand what you're dealing with."

I swear to fucking God.

I met Lupita.

[laughs]

She was really lovely.

No, I think because, I think honestly, even though you're being, uh, mean is not the word I would use. I feel like, h- I don't know.

Yeah.

I feel like people generally have a sense of humor, especially if it's about clothes, or I would like them to if they're rich and famous at least.

Yes. I think that they do. I mean, there's, like, funny... Sometimes, yeah. Ev- everyone's been pretty, like, pretty easygoing and playful about it. I, I mean, there was one time when I was at the, I was at, I was at that Armani party that they do for the Oscars the day before, which is, like, very star-studded. And I was there, and I was, like, walking out, and walking in was that actress, um, I- Eiza González.

Mm-hmm.

And she, like, made a beeline for me. She was like, "I know you," blah, blah, blah, blah, like, "I'm, I'm going to the Oscars tomorrow. You better not say some shit about me." Blah, like, she got very, like, fierce and fiery. And I was like, "[gasps] Oh, o- okay. Whatever." And I was like, okay. It w- that was actually maybe the first time someone confronted me. But then I saw her, like, the next day at some, like, after party, and I was, like, so nervous. I was like, "Hi, h- you, what are you..." 'Cause I ult caved so fast. I'll be like, "What are you talking about? I love you."

[laughs]

"Like, I love everything you do, and I love everything you're wearing, and I love your m- music and your film." You know, like I'm so fake.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Um, and she was like, "Oh my God, how are you?"

I'm looking at the IG right now. She, she's, uh-

She is-

She's bad

... one of the hottest women alive, but she was totally, like, actually joking and, like-

Yeah

... now we're friends. And she was like, "Oh, I love you. I love what you do."

But the clothes could be bad, though. Clo- clothes could be better, though.

Yeah, the clothes-

Not to-

Yeah. You can, I'll let you say that.

[laughs]

I think that celebrities unfortunately, and we forget this, at least with actors in my personal experience or opinion, they're not cool. Like, they don't care-

[laughs]

... about clothes really. That's not, like, they're, they're-

Yeah.

They wear whatever somebody hands them.

Yes

... geeks that were in drama, and they're forced to put on a gown because they have to sell the thing they care about.

Yes.

It's not what they want to do. I think, I think some musicians have, like, an actual passion for it and like it more.

Yeah.

And there's actors of course that do, but I think it is, like, we forget that this is not... It's become such a sort of industry in itself that I'm like, these people don't wanna do this. They would much rather be at home fucking watching Netflix-

No

... like everybody else, but they have to go whore themselves out.

I know. I think they hate it. I really do think they hate it. Yeah, it sucks. And, like, they have to do so much more and everything's on, like, such higher visibility scales now. Like, the scale of everything has been so crazy. I mean, it's like you do one movie, and now you have to do, like, a premiere in, like, 10 different cities.

Yeah.

And it's like-

I mean, you-

... they probably fucking hate that, but-

That's what the money's for. That's what the money's for.

Yeah. I mean, fashion pays a lot of their bills, you know? So it's like-

It's true

... I think they kinda just swallow it ultimately.

Yeah, Johnny Depp's not really getting a lot of acting gigs lately, but that Sauvage paper is hitting big.

Selling, baby. Selling.

Crazy. He must really sell Sauvage, 'cause that is a d- I mean-

Oh my God

... I d- I don't-

I think it's, like, one of the best performing fragrances.

It is, but I've never smelled Sauvage. I mean, I guess I walk through duty free a lot, so I guess I'm getting a nose full-

[laughs]

... by accident, but I've never s-

You've gotten a whiff unwillingly. Yeah.

I've never tried-

[laughs]

... to smell Sauvage, I'll say. Let's, let, let me put it that way.

Well, no, no one with, like, taste would go out of their way to try that, you know what I mean?

It's just so funny that, that, the-

Maybe you don't understand the Sauvage

... fragrance world makes a fortune. It's a huge business, and, and it's, like, the big one... Like, when we were kids, like Jason and I, it was like Polo was it. You had Polo Sport basically, and you had Polo, and those were the two fragrances.

We had Acqua di Gio and Cool Water as well.

That, yeah, Cool Water was a big one. But now it feels like there's just the, the, there's too many, and there's all these nerds that are in, being, these dorks that are, like, s- deep into fragrance kill, it kills me.

Yeah.

It's hilarious to me.

It's sweet. It's, it's a, it's a really interesting industry. I was like, before I was doing this, I was actually working for Estee Lauder, and I was in, I da- I dabbled in the fragrance world. And I was like, "Oh my God, this is so different than fashion, and I have, like, no idea what I'm doing." But there's so much money swirling around there. But it really is just also, like, all marketing. Like, you have to, like, spend big, or else you're not gonna really make it because-

But the ads are always so cor-

... there's too much competition now

... I feel like the ads historically are corny, so people still make the, like-

Yeah

... you make n- you make Natalie Portman look bad, you know what I mean? It's, like, impossible to do.

Yeah.

It's like you make it so corny. But I guess, I mean, whatever. I guess it works. What do I know?

I know. I mean, they're not really, like-You know, once you're in those infrastructures of like the L'Oreal, Estee Lauder, or like-

Shit's just gotta get done

... yeah, shit's gotta get done. They're on crazy different timelines, and a lot of times there is no overlap between like the fashion, you know, which, which fashion does-

Yeah, yeah, it's two different-

... creatives so, so beautifully, and they like don't, they don't take-

Two different departments.

Yeah.

When did you get to, when did you quit your jo- when did you know it was time to be a star? What happened?

I qu-

What check, what check cleared where you're like, "All right, bitch, I'm out"?

It was only like maybe nine months ago. It was in February. I was at my job, and I, I had this deal from like, oh, I think it was Neiman Marcus, and they wanted to me to be like their correspondent. And so they were like, "We would want you to go to like every city, you know, go to shows and interview people. Like, what are you wearing?" You know, the whole thing. And then, um, I was like, "Okay, that could be cool," and it was like just enough money where I was like, "Maybe this would like, you know, hold me over for like two months or something like that." I was like, "That seems like a lot of money," compared to like what I was making. So then I was like, "I, I, maybe I should do this," and then I called my mom and she was like, "Are you fucking crazy?" I was like, "I don't know, it just seems like a good idea." And then I ca- I told my boss and I was like, "I think I have to quit to do this," and he was like, "Are you sure?" Everyone was like, "Are you sure?" And I was like, "Yeah, I just feel like there's something here." And then-

You bet on yourself, and that's why you're sitting here talking to us on How Long Gone today.

Well, period, exactly. I've made it, baby.

[laughs]

But it was so crazy, 'cause I remember like being like, "I hope I can pay my bill." 'Cause my parents were like, "We're not gonna bail you out." You know what I mean? Just like, "No, we're not gonna bail you out," whatever. I was like, "Okay, well am I asking to? Like, shut the fuck up."

[laughs]

And then, um, and I literally m- I mean, I was like, "I hope another job comes through." And like that month I made like my salary within like one month. And I was like, "Okay, I think we're, we're fine here actually."

Okay, see, now, now you're gonna give, you're, you're gonna give, you're gonna give aspiring influencers false hope. Just so you understand, most people that doesn't, that's not how-

[laughs]

That's not how it works. Most people, that is, that's not how it goes.

You think so?

Definitely.

Bro, hell no. All these y-

Do you know how many people wanna be influencers and how many people make a living wage at influencing?

That is so dark. That is so dark to think about.

I would say, I would say more people than should make a living off of it based on what I see.

Yeah.

But, you know.

I know.

Not everybody.

Well, like, like, like Nicky said before, you know, it really depends on what their face looks like. That is a large part of it. You know, talent-

Yeah

... is, you know, give it or, take it or give it, but I think, I think the way you look and how much, how hard you work, then you could really get there.

So you're saying I'm really gorgeous.

You're gorgeous.

That's what I'm hearing.

I'm saying you're a hard, you're a hardworking baddie with no talent-

[laughs]

... and that's why you're talking to us today.

[laughs]

That is so true.

So, so-

That's so nice

... so now that you're living, now that you're living this fashion jet set lifestyle, you're in Milan, you're in Paris, you're in LA, you're, you're rubbing elbows with Hollywood greats-

Yes

... what are you, what are you s- buying? 'Cause I feel like you must be g- I know you're getting more for free, but that also means that-

Yeah

... you're more inclined to cop.

That is such a great question, and I would love to answer it. And you know what's funny is like I've bec- [laughs] I've become this person. I don't know what happened to me. And I do, I mean, I always have felt like an elderly white woman, like on the inside, but I really have become like a The Row fanatic.

Oh, so, okay, so-

I-

I wonder, I wonder what the difference was. Could it been, could it be the hundreds of thousands of dollars that you are making now-

Yeah

... compared to 10 years ago?

That is so crazy.

I know.

Okay, so you're going, all right, so you're going Jennifer Lawrence, Harry Styles mode. But are, but when I catch you-

A little bit

... when I catch you in the streets, what do, but I mean-

What, okay, for the, f- for The Row, sorry to interrupt, Chris, what percentage male and what percentage female from The Row collection are you wearing?

Oh, so I don't know. I mean, I never really look at that stuff. I think it's probably 50/50.

Oh, okay. All right, all right. This, all right, all right, they/them. Calm down.

I-

All right.

But you know what side the buttons are on, though, right?

Uh.

You know what side the zipper's pulling.

It's on different floors at the store also.

[laughs]

I just wanna be clear. Men's, men's is all the way at the top. So if you go three flights up.

And the women's, uh, mannequins, they got titties and the men's don't.

[laughs]

But otherwise... But I mean-

Well, I try on-

You, you make a good point, like it-

I try on at store, but I don't usually buy at store.

Because you're using your My Theresa discount a- at, at home.

[laughs] Yeah.

I know, I know the scams, bro.

[laughs]

I know how you fucking people operate.

Okay. So you're, you're keeping brick-and-mortar dead by you go in there, you use it as a free place to try the clothes on, take a picture in the beautiful lighting.

100.

And then go online and buy it for $100 less.

100%.

It shows up at your house.

100%, 100%. Well, the, the $100-

It's tough

... you know, the 10% off can really make a difference sometimes, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Brings it down.

10% of 3,400 is a decent little chunk of change, isn't it?

If I go in a sto- if I go in a store and I like something and I try it on and they help me try it on, out of the g- I can't go buy it on the internet. I have to buy it there.

White guilt, we gotta buy it.

I just, I can't.

Oh, I don't have any of that. [laughs]

I just don't, I don't need to... I just feel like I... Maybe it's 'cause I worked retail and I respect the craft, and if somebody's good at it, I want them to get the commission.

Right. So what does good at it mean? [laughs]

Good at it, at this point it m- it's the, I mean, the, the, the s- the ceiling is on the floor at this point, so I mean, just being-

[laughs]

... being relatively not following me around like a criminal.

Right.

No iPad in sight.

Right.

And not sugge- not suggesting things that are clearly 40 times more expensive than the items I'm actually looking at.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Do you know what I mean? Like, and I-

Yeah, you can, you can tell when the salesperson is cool and gets it and they're, they're not trying to push you, they're just trying to let you do your thing.

Yeah, I've s-

Glass of bubbles.

But because of, because of how I look-

Yes

... because of how I look, I think there could be some, uh, confusion on my, uh, knowledge level depending on the place that I'm in.

Oh, right.

Chris likes that.

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Sometimes I can get spoken down to, um, which is nice 'cause it makes me feel like-

Until he pulls out his Chrome Hearts wallet and everyone gasps.

[laughs]

They're just like, "The guy with the Chrome Hearts."

I just, I, I feel like a while... I had an experience at Phoebe Philo where I was like, I was, got mad because the guy mansplained buying to me, and then I realized that it was just 'cause he thought I was some like Upper East Side rich guy. And I was like, "Well, I mean, that's a compliment, actually."

Oh.

You know, I, I, I reframed it.

That's nice that you present that way. [laughs]

I, I, I know. I know. 'Cause sometimes people tell me I present much differently than that, so I'm glad to hear that.

Yeah, I mean, it could go either way with you depending on what you're wearing.

W- in what, in-

Mm-hmm

... either way in what sense? I look gay or I don't?

Uh, oh, that's not what I was gonna say. So maybe we should unpack that, but that's where your mind went

One, one part Upper East Side rich guy who doesn't know about clothes, and then one part downtown poor guy-

Yeah, poor

... who can't afford these clothes.

I was gonna say rich and poor.

Rich and poor-

You know?

... is fine.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, I would... I love that because I'm much, much closer to poor, and I would like to stay that way because I'm afraid of what would happen.

Got it.

I'm afraid of what would happen. I don't wanna turn into a Nicky-

Oh

... you know what I mean? Abusing salespeople.

I have... [clears throat] I know. Listen, I have, I have become such a monster so fast, it's really just kinda disturbing. [laughs] I can't, like-

Deep down you knew this was gonna happen though, right?

I, I might have, yeah. I think I-

Yeah

... I think I might have. The, the, like, I'm...

[laughs]

Everything has become so ridiculous. I'm like, I can't even step into the gym now if it's, like, not with my trainer. You know what I mean? I'm like, "I don't know what to do."

But I f- I f- I feel like you're-

You know? How do I do that?

I feel like you're, [clears throat] like, like the way wa- I, uh, when I walk down the street with Kareem, it's like I'm walking down the street with a former president. Like, people cannot... Like, it's insane. People are trying to get pictures, trying to shake his hand.

Oh, really?

Yeah, I feel like you're... Yeah, I feel like you're getting re- I feel like in certain circles you're, you're having to, to do a lot of, like-

Yes

... cameo style content.

Yeah. What, what, what types of locations are the most hot for you? We said which-

Where are you getting recognized?

Which Equinox is it?

Not the steam room. I'm talking regular stuff.

[laughs]

Regular stuff.

All right. Okay, that's awful. Thank you.

On the floor.

Thank you. Thank you. That's really helpful.

On... Whoa, Jason. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[laughs]

[laughs]

I need you on the floor. [laughs]

[laughs]

I will say it's kind of everywhere.

Oh, this guy. All right.

I... [laughs]

Mm.

All right. It's actually fucking everywhere. I, it's act- I, I can't go fucking-

It's actually just any time.

[laughs]

Okay, but people-

I know

... do they want you? Do they just wanna say hi or do they want the flick?

I hate the flick because I'm never prepared.

[laughs]

I'm never prepared for that. I don't have-

Yeah

... I don't have photo approval.

And that's what they care about the most.

Yeah, it's-

It gives them the most social currency.

Yeah. See, I would want you, I would want... If I, if I was a fan, I would want you to read me down IRL.

Ugh.

Read me down.

Like, which is obv- obviously more pressure and even worse than a photo, but I, I need you to sh- show me your skills to make sure they're real.

Oh, right, right. I know. I do get a lot of that, and that I don't, um, I don't [laughs] I don't love.

[laughs]

'Cause I'm like, I am, I am somewhat of a nice person, so-

[laughs]

... it's not like, you know, when I see someone that's wearing something horrible I wanna just be like, "You look like shit," you know?

[laughs]

Of course not.

Um-

A stranger doesn't need your, your, your-

Yeah

... doesn't, doesn't need that, I agree.

That's the other thing.

They want it though.

I don't think, I don't think they really want that.

Yeah, but if they're like, "Read me down, read me down," and you're like, "You could lose 20."

[laughs]

It doesn't feel, it doesn't feel good saying that to someone's face. You know what I mean?

No.

Oh, your shirt... Actually your shirt, your shirt's beautiful but you could definitely lose weight, if that's what you're, uh-

Right. [laughs]

[laughs]

That's exactly what they're looking for, I'm, I'm, I'm sure.

Oh, those pants fit you perfectly, but they could be smaller. If you know what I mean.

No notes except for you're really fat. [laughs]

Yeah, exactly.

Speaking of people who are not fat, but maybe you do have notes on, I wanted to discuss, I, I sent you a message earlier, Jack Antonoff's, um, heather hoodie on the red carpet.

Best he's ever looked. It's best he's ever looked.

It is, right?

You said, okay, let me... Hold on. Hold on.

Okay.

Hold on.

Okay.

Your, your quote, there's a photo of him, you can pull it up. It's from an awards show, a Variety Hitmakers event last night.

These, these fake award shows are paying Nicky's bills, I'll tell you what.

[laughs]

They get, they come out with a new fake award show, he gets a call, he's loving it.

Nicky says, "Can't sleep. Too busy thinking about this Jack Antonoff fit." And you, you, so you can't really tell is it good, is it bad, is it a subversive statement on the culture of red carpet dressing and quiet luxury? Is it full The Row or J. Crew? Was it strategically styled or did he just roll out of bed? We need answers.

I haven't gotten any-

So everyone can pull that up

... I haven't gotten any answers, but I would still like some, 'cause I think it was kind of brilliant and genius.

I don't think The Row, I don't think The Row makes a hooded sweatshirt. I think the pants are The Row.

Yeah.

I think, was he wearing those eel loafers that we gotta retire? We gotta retire the eel loafers.

Shut up, I just bought a pair. They're great.

[laughs]

Wow, I'm, I expect more from you. You're, they're, you're five years late. Like, come on.

Are the loafers eel? I can't tell. They look kinda r- I don't know.

I think they're-

I don't know

... I think they're timeless. I think they're timeless.

See, I actually disag- I think, I think because of the, the, like, rouging around the edge, they're not timeless. That's my issue with them.

Yeah. I tried the ones that are, are regular leather, but I don't know. They're just a little too, they're a little too flat for me. I like a little more structure. It was the bottom half of that look was giving The Row.

Mm-hmm.

That sweatshirt was, that sweatshirt also could've been vintage.

Mm.

It could've been vintage. It had a, it had a nice quality to it that, that felt worn.

If you want me to find out I can a- I'm gonna ask Patricia. I'll find out if it could be.

Can you?

I'll find out.

I really need to know.

Yeah.

So, so do you, do you like the look overall?

I think I love it, actually.

Okay.

I think I love it.

I mean, I think that I, and with, you're a great person to talk to this about, I think that, like, men should stop experimenting.

[laughs]

Like, I don't think men should be... Like, I don't think straight men-

With, with clothing. With clothing

... with clothing, with clothing, with clothing.

Right. Well, thank you. [laughs]

[laughs]

Like, I think Ja- I think Jack Antonoff looked, uh, great in, in some pants and a sweatshirt because that's what men should be wearing, not some weird cropped boxy suit-

[laughs]

... that's like, like, it, nobody looks good in this shit.

All right, J- all right, Joe Rogan. All right.

Not, not, uh, not Skarsgård wearing patent leather thigh highs.

Are you not into that?

Yeah, like I know you put, you... No, I know you put Ronson in the thigh highs, and I need to talk to him about that-

[laughs]

... 'cause that's, that feels like elder abuse on your part.

What?

That feels like, that feels like you put-

[laughs]

... you put, you... Mark Ronson, Mark Ronson is one of our best looking male celebrities-

Yeah

... that has held it down for decades wearing fucking jeans and T-shirts and fucking North Face jackets and-

Yeah, we want him playing Mary J. Blige songs, not dressing like Mary J. Blige, okay?

I love, I li- and, and Mark, Mark looks great in a s- who looks better in a s- a tuxedo than Mark Ronson?

No one.

You got him out here gay-baiting in a way that it feels predatory, honestly.

[laughs]

It feels predatory.

Well, I will say-

It feels predatory

... the gay, I have awakened something within the gay community and Mark Ronson. My DMs are now just like, I get at least five a day that's like, "Is Mark Ronson gay? Is Mark Ronson gay?" I'm like, "First of all, you can Google him and d- see that he has a wife and children."But also-

[laughs]

... I'm like, "Relax." They're so, they're so feral.

[laughs]

You know?

Yeah, they're so feral.

Well, 'cause if they think, if, if they're thinking, they, they're like, "This man, hold on. This guy looks like that."

Yeah.

"His hair looks like that, and he knows Lady Gaga? I'm d- I'm trying to fuck."

[laughs]

That's it. That's, that's-

It, it really is that he works with every pop star, you know?

He can, he can text Lady Gaga? Hold the fuck on.

Yeah, hold o- hold on. [laughs]

Well, yeah. O- once the impossible becomes possible, everyone gets feral, you know what I mean?

That is, that is-

'Cause him, h- him potentially turning is life altering news for the gay community.

You can't, you can't, you can't be doing that to him. You can see, you put him in those boots, and I appreciate that Mark is down to clown and letting you do your thing, and you're having fun.

Down, yeah.

But if you g- if I had something to do and you try to put me in those boots, it would b- I'd be like, "All right, that's it."

[laughs]

"We're done. We're done here."

What? [laughs]

"Leave the hotel."

Oh, you're gonna hate what we have planned. I actually just had a fitting with him today, 'cause he has some fun little... He has, he's like weirdly, like he's too booked, actually. He needs to take a break.

[laughs]

But we have some, we have some award season fun things coming up, and it is gonna be so diabolical. You're gonna hate it.

Mm.

I will say, I will say, though, I, I will say that when you guys went through, when you guys, on your podcast, and you went through all of his looks over the years and critiqued him to his face, I have to say that was some of the better content I've seen.

[laughs]

Because he was such a good sport about it, and so funny about it.

He is great.

And you were just, like, you were just shocked by everything. You just couldn't believe that he wore it, and it's like, yeah, I had a Beatles haircut and a skinny double-breasted blue suit, and-

[laughs]

... with Amy Winehouse. Like, what do you want me to do?

I was shocked. I did not recognize his game. You know, at the ti- I was like, "Oh, shit, you're-

Yeah

... like, fucking crazy. Like, you're go- you're going for it."

Well, there's also-

Yeah

... th- that time, I feel like there was less guys that were going for it. I think every guy is going for it now, you know?

Yes.

I think that's what I mean. That's what the problem is.

Yes.

Like, Alexander Skarsgard gaybaiting for six months for this movie that will not win an Oscar is like, is it worth, is it?

[laughs]

Like, there's a picture, there was a, there was a clip.

[laughs]

There's a clip of him on Graham Norton where, like, an older British woman that was on the panel with him was like, "You're-"

I saw that, yeah.

"Are you gay?" And he was like, "Well, not, not really." It's like, dude, you're not gay. Like, you're, you can't say not really.

Well-

Oh, is he gay?

You can't just, you can't just giggle to yourself and say no comment.

That, that's unf-

Yeah

... that's unfair to me. That's disrespectful to my community.

That's dirty baiting.

That's dirty baiting.

Mark, I don't know. I-

I, I shan't stand for it

... I could see him being bi, though.

That's, bi is not a real thing, and you know that.

[laughs]

That is not, you know that's not. We don't...

[laughs]

You know we don't do that.

All right.

Like, you're, you're either bruv, you're-

Not, not bi, but, like, he would let someone suck it, you know what I mean?

W- well, that's, that's just regular. That's different. That's not-

[laughs]

... that's not-

Oh, okay.

Yeah, that's different.

[laughs]

Yeah, that's a different-

'Cause in the, in the gay community, you guys-

[laughs]

... you guys have a popular phrase, a hole is a hole. And straight, straight people, we don't really.

That's correct.

We don't really subscribe to that in the same way.

I know. What an interesting way to live your life.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Uh, yeah.

Positively.

It, it's hard out here, bro. You don't know what we g- you don't know what we go through. We get to run all of the biggest corporations in the country, but we can't, we can't just-

[laughs]

... we can't go into a bathroom and all of a sudden leave.

Okay, on th-

[laughs]

... on this topic-

Yeah

... Nicholas, uh, in your heart of hearts-

Mm-hmm

... is Seth Meyers a top or a bottom?

Oh my God, do not... I'm gonna break out into sweat. I, [laughs] I love him so much. [laughs] He is, like, a, he is what we call a soft top.

Say more. So you're saying he's making love to you, he's not putting it down?

Yes.

[laughs]

You know, a do- so a dom top is, like, you know, they walk in, they want you, like, ass up, face down.

Mm-hmm.

Rail you, leave.

Yeah.

He would be, like, a sweet kind of, like, soft... Like, he'll, like, he wants to make love.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

Okay, okay.

And be like, "Are you okay?" You know?

"I brought bagels."

[laughs]

You know? S- something like that.

He's so hot. That's so my type.

"And a juice press for me, and a juice press for you."

I feel like Seth Meyers is, if Seth, uh, you liking Seth Meyers is very I went to Campbell Hall coded. I feel like that's a guy that you went to high school with.

What does that fucking mean?

Yeah, so, yeah, how does Seth Meyers become, how does Seth become your number one of all the dick in the world? What's going on there?

You know what? I don't know.

He's not a bad looking guy, good looking guy. Smart, funny, talented, successful.

He's great. Yeah, he's one of the best to do that job.

But he doesn't really appeal on a, appear on a lot of, you know.

No, I think that's why I like him. I like a guy that's a little nerdy and a little, like, he's, he's fu- it's, it's, it's a sense of humor that really does get me, you know? He's funny.

Mm.

He can hang, like.

He has confidence in his, in his sense of humor, I think.

Are any of these to- are any of these top gays in your DMs? Has your dating life opened up into a new portal because of your popularity?

Top gay.

I do. [laughs] I don't know. I don't know, I don't know what stroke you just had. Um-

[laughs]

Has it opened my-

I was going British for you, sorry.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I got it. Okay. I'm putting it together now.

Mm-hmm.

Um, yeah, it, it has. Like, there's definitely a lot of things going on in DMs, but it's also, like, not, because I'm not in one place, uh, like, for, like, more than, like, a week, and that's not super conductive to anything.

I think when I said dating, you know what I meant, so don't act like a week-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... is not lo-

I think that's conductive to 18 minutes of dom topping.

Yeah.

[laughs]

I mean, oh yeah, I'm not talking about-

It seems like it works out pretty darn well.

Yeah.

While you're waiting for the DoorDash to hit.

You're right. So then in your context, absolutely, it's going great. [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs] I really don't-

Okay, but in, but in terms of longtime love and companionship, it's a little more difficult.

It has never, it has never been worse. I think that's also why I need to leave New York.

Mm, mm-hmm.

Aren't you married? Are you married, right? Are you both married?

Yeah, we're both married.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ew, that is so annoying.

[laughs] If I had a dollar every time a gay guy told me that.

Yeah, that's, yeah. D- trust me, women don't say that.

Oh my God. Ugh, that pisses me off so much.

What, what do you th- what, b-

[laughs]

Okay. I, well, I'm sorry that we, I'm sorry to hear that.

Why? Can you say why?

Why? I don't like to see other people happy.

[laughs]

Okay. I appreciate your, I appreciate your honesty, and I think that, that is coming from a real place.

Coolest thing that you said this whole hour.

I know. It, it is. [laughs]

[laughs]

It's so crazy. Like, how did you find it? Like, what are the steps? Like, I just don't get it, you know what I mean?

Mm.

Yeah.

Like, I, I don't get it.

Well, I think your li- I think your current lifestyle's probably not conducive to it, but maybe one day when you settle down and you have your own content farm, you know?

Right.

In the Cotswolds.

But then when is, when is that gonna be? You know what I mean? When is that gonna be?

You're, you're gonna be 37. Give it eight years.

Yeah.

Something like that.

I would rather, I would rather fucking swallow a knife than wait until I'm 37.

[laughs] Well, I mean, you could be sp- I mean, if you weren't so busy doing a zillion things, bopping all over the world city to city, it would be sooner, but you're gonna have to meet a lot of people that you don't like.

Mm-hmm.

Figure out what you don't like, and then one day one person's gonna be like, "Oh, I could hang out with this person forever. I r- I would rather hang out with them than be alone," and then, then you're good.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. You probably know gay people too.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, I know a lot of ga- I know a lot of gay people, and the reason they're able to be in, um, beautiful long-term relationships is 'cause they can also fuck whoever they want whenever they want.

No.

So it seems to be a fine thing. It, I think you're gonna be okay in that sense.

I know. You know what? I just don't know if I could do that, because I'm a Gemini. Like, I would go crazy so fast and in such an intense, aggressive way.

Crazy on what?

I don't think you have a choice. I don't think your community gives you a choice.

Ugh. I know. You're kind of right.

[laughs] And that's on you.

I just-

Not on us

... not to g- not to gay- not to gay-splain it to you.

Do the work, mama.

But I just feel like-

Do the work. We can't help you here.

I know.

We can only do so much for you. We can only do so much for you.

I know.

What, what is... When is the last time that you flew, uh, coach?

[laughs] You know what? Last year. It's been a year. It was awful.

When you do fly coach, are you wearing a full disguise?

Yes. [laughs] Absolutely, but no. I'm actually gonna do it. I'm gonna do it soon.

But what, to, to go back to your ro-

[laughs]

Not even your roots, but to, to feel something?

No, but [laughs] I'm going 'cause I'm going to Mi- I'm going to Miami in, like, two weeks, and, like, it just isn't-

It's a short flight

... for, like, a two-hour flight, I'm like, "Okay, we can't... You know, we have to have some free-"

Yeah, but then the upgrades, the upgrade's 200 bucks. Just do it, bitch. Come on.

Exactly. Exactly.

No, I a- no, I agree with you. Anything that I don't have to sleep, it's not worth the money.

I know.

If I don't have to sleep, if I don't need to wake up and do something, I think it's totally fine. If you, if you need to fly first class from Miami, New York to Miami, you have a problem.

Right, and I don't have a problem.

You definitely have a problem, and that's why we're gonna check in after this and see what you do.

[laughs] Okay. So what, what is the, what is the airplane, airport outfit, look in disguise?

I-

Big Apple headphones, a hood, sunglasses. What's going on?

It's a whole... Yes. Yes. All of it. All of it. I do like to travel like I'm incognito, 'cause I will say the worst place to get recognized is an airport. It's just object- objectively upsetting.

Nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide.

Nowhere to run to, nowhere to hide. I would say it's, like, a, it's, like, a hoodie, black baseball cap, sunglasses. The headphones are on.

Mm-hmm.

And I do some sort of, like, an elevated, you know, sweat suit.

Elevated.

Although I've started now doing, like, you know, I'll wear a jean and then I'll bring, like, a s- like, a, you know, like, a cashmere sort of, like, pant that I change into once I-

Okay

... get in the little seat

... that's a, that, that's too, that's too diva mode. People who-

This is my flying pant

... people who change into the fucking pajamas-

I know

... on a... I'm like, "Dude, relax. We're comfortable."

So the, the Wales Bonner track pants aren't enough? You have to go cashmere?

I love the cashmere. It just feels so nice.

Yeah, of course.

Cashmere pants, cashmere pan- no, cashmere pants are too soft. Sweaters only.

That is such a horrible take.

I don't want h- I want... No, I don't need hard pants, but I don't want pants that soft.

We're too straight to wear cashmere pants.

Yeah, that's just too far.

Oh, do you feel like that's a gay thing?

It's like Travis Kelce. Like, it's beyond gay.

[laughs]

Like, who would wear a cashmere pant?

It's not, no, it's not, it's, it's not gay. It's, it's like rich mom that veers into gay.

No, I'm talking about for males. Obviously women wearing it is a different story.

The rules are different.

Some people would say that I'm a woman, so it's, you know.

See, that's the thing.

True.

You don't owe me that actually. That, that's what's funny about you. I don't feel that at all from you.

That's so nice. Thank you for saying that.

I really don't.

You're masc-presenting.

I don't feel, I don't feel that way either actually.

Also, you, w- when I kn- I... Because of your relationship with Jacob and you, I saw you at the Hanover party on Friday hanging out with all the bros.

Yes.

Like, a, a real... You, you... That's, takes a certain skill. Like, you couldn't do that. You're, you're not... I don't know. It just, it requires something that some people don't have that you do.

I have an enormous amount of straight guy friends.

I know. It's, it, it's cool. It's a, it's powerful.

Yeah. That's my boy. You know, we went, we met when I was, like, play- So I was, like... I used to be friends with mostly boys actually.

[laughs]

'Cause I was, like, really... I thought I was gonna be, like, a professional soccer player. That was, like, my journey before all of this growing up. So, so that's how I met Jacob. We were playing soccer together.

Soccer together?

Wow.

Oh, that's f- that's, that's really fun. All right. So do you-

Yeah

... still hit the pickup game with the fellas?

I don't. I don't have, I don't do that anymore because I'm, like, not interested in, like, playing for, like, like, I either wanna go to the Olympics or nothing. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think sports are, like-

Mm.

I don't think sports are, like, a good hobby actually. You know?

Well, we can get that 28, 30 waist down to a 24, 26, mama.

You know what?

Real quick.

Let, let's go messy. Go messy mode.

Three months on the pitch.

Watch your fucking mouth, baby. I'm doing 12-3:30-

[laughs]

... like nobody's tomorrow these days.

Me too, sweetie. Let's walk. I'm gonna g- I'm gonna go do 12-3:30 as soon as we get off this fucking [laughs] podcast.

It really works.

Could you guys explain what that is to our listeners at home please?

It's when you walk, you walk on an incline 12 speed 3 for 30 minutes.

Yep.

It's an Instagram... It's a workout for women-

Mm

... that became popular on Instagram.

Yeah, and it works.

And, and Chris, you do it every time.

I do it every day, yeah. I, I just like the, I like being actually sweaty before I start w- lifting weights.

Yes.

Like, I like to be, like, actually warmed up, which I think-

Yeah

... is the easiest l- like, low impact way to do that.

And look at you now. You're, you're withering away. Can't even see you. [laughs]

Uh, that, that's that Tokyo sunshine coming in from the right, you know?

[laughs]

You guys, honestly, this is b- this is beautiful. I, I podcasted with you guys while the sun was rising-

Oh

... over, over Tokyo. I have to say, it was poetic.

I have no interest in that, but it does sound nice.

Well, look it, I, if I could do my job from bed, I would, but some of us gotta get up and we gotta plug our damn microphones in, okay?

Your journey is boring to me, but I'm happy for you, Chris.

We can't do Al- we can't all be Alex Earl, bitch, okay?

[laughs]

Don't, don't forget it.

All right, Nicky, um-

That's on, that's on the vision board

... we're, we're all done here. Is there anything that you want to announce? Any new stuff in the works? Any big things you wanna announce, or just business as usual?

Um, I have nothing going on. I'm going to Miami. That's gonna be fun.

Is this just for, this is just for holiday.

What brand?

This is for holiday. [laughs] Shut your mouth.

[laughs]

The brand is New Year's, and it's gonna be really exciting for me.

You're going to Miami for New Year's?

Yeah, I've never done that before. It could either go really great or really horribly.

That is... Bro, I... No, that's t- that's terrifying.

Do you, uh, do... What's your itinerary?

I don't have one. Actually, I have... Well, so one thing on my itinerary is Carbone. [laughs]

No, that's a great... I just went in Vegas, and it slapped. It was so good.

I just... They're everywhere. It's so exhausting. But I do love them. I can't help it.

Okay, so you're gonna get on a plane and go to Carbone, a restaurant that you could go to tonight?

I know. Shout out Kate Bailey. [laughs]

We're gonna set you up down there. We'll set you up down there in Miami, okay?

Okay.

No, I mean-

Okay

... I feel, I, I feel like that feel, that feels appropriate, I mean, to-

Well

... to be fair.

So you approve of that? Okay, great.

I approve of it from a funny standpoint, yes.

I would like you to have something a little more local and a little more of the people and the culture, something a little Cuban, South American flavor.

No, I don't like that.

[laughs]

Jason, we've talked to him, we've talked to him for an hour. Do you think he's... Oh, yeah, I was about to say, we've talked to him for an hour.

[laughs]

He does not wanna do that.

He's like, "All right, I'm, uh..." You get off the plane and you, like, Sugarfish to the hotel delivery.

Oh my God, I do it all the time.

Yeah, he's going to Pastis and Sugarfish.

[laughs]

Mm-hmm.

My kind of guy right there. My kind of guy right there. All right, Nicky, thanks for joining us. Have a wonderful holiday, holiday season. Hopefully we'll see you soon.

Of course. You too. I hope so too. Was this helpful for you? Did you get what you needed?

We got everything we needed, Mr. Campbell.

This was very helpful for us, yeah.

[laughs]

We got... I feel it was very helpful. Thank you so much for your time.

Oh, I'm-

Thank you so much for your time

... I'm honored. Thank you so much. I love you both.

All right. We'll see you later. [kissing sound]

Bye. [upbeat music]

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