884. - George Civeris

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian, and they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world, and they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. [upbeat music] How Long Gone, recording in progress. It's Chris Black. I'm back in snowy New York City. Well, not, not currently snowing, but there's snow on the ground. Um-

Mm-hmm

... and boy, let me tell you something, Jason, I almost kissed the ground.

[laughs] Okay, because you are back in America? Because you're in New York? Because there's snow? Because... What's going on?

I mean, all, all... Well, not s- all three, but I, I, I had a interesting thing happen where I was supposed to have a, a pretty lengthy layover in, in Montreal after being on the, you know, the plane for whatever, 13 hours or something coming back from Tokyo.

So is that Tokyo to Montreal direct?

Tokyo to Montreal direct, yes. And then I went-

Mm. Mm

... to the desk at the Air Canada employee, who is a, a younger gentleman, and he... I was just like, "Hey, there's this earlier flight. Could I get on it? It leaves in 30 minutes." And he was just like, "Sure." And that was it.

[laughs]

There was no, there was no, like, iss- he pushed a couple buttons, handed me a new ticket. I was still in first class. Like, I was like, "This is how it should work."

Wow.

This is how it's supposed to be. And it made me... It, it gave... It pumped me up and allowed me to stay up a little later than I wanted to and, you know, re-acclimate hopefully. But I'm starting to crash right as we started podcasting, just FYI.

Oh. [laughs] Okay, we've been re- we've been recording for one minute, just to let you know, so we've got another 114-

It's okay

... to go.

I'll be fine. I'll be fine.

I guess I should say 74.

It could be, it could be, it could be worse. I mean, I have a, I have some cold brew. I have my concentrate. I'm back and I'm burning my, you know, incense from Kyoto. I'm still, [laughs] I'm still Zen'd out mentally, you know?

I could use some Kyoto incense, actually. How far is the flight from Montreal to JFK?

Like, 45 minutes.

[laughs]

But I, but I had to-

How did that feel to be so close, you're landing the plane-

This has happened to me-

... and you're like, "Nope, we gotta go to Canada first"?

This has happened to me before, where the person in charge of booking the flight will hit you with the flight you want, and you're like, "Perfect." And then-

Mm-hmm

... three days go by and they're like, "Actually, that flight isn't available anymore."

[laughs]

And I'm like, "That's because you didn't book it after you sent me the fucking email. It's not 'cause it's not... The flight is definitely taking off. The flight is leaving-"

[laughs]

[laughs] "The, the, the flight is leaving the station." So you forgot to book it, which is fine, but now I gotta lay over in fucking Montreal, one of the, one of, you know, one of my least favorite cities. Obviously, I had PTSD-

Yeah

... just, just landing there.

It's tough 'cause you, yeah, you, you had to spend all, your whole COVID there and you're like, "I don't know if I'm ever gonna get back with what's going on in the government and, uh, et cetera, et cetera," you know?

Exactly.

Is Trump gonna shut the borders down in those 45 minutes over your layover? You're, you're over there getting a little Timbit and next thing you know you're in handcuffs, eh?

[laughs] Next thing, next thing you know, "Uh, excuse me, sir, you're not getting on that fucking plane."

Mm-hmm.

"I tell you right now, put the, put your Timmy's down and put your hands behind your goddamn back."

"I don't care if you've seen Heated Rivalry. You've got to go to the secondary-"

[laughs]

"... secondary customs."

"Sir, we're gonna need you to go to the secondary search, if you don't mind. It would be, uh, it would be really doing us a favor if you just kept it down."

"Well, welcome home. Welcome home. And then how many more hours until you get on an airplane and come to LA?"

I mean, flight leaves at 7:00 AM, so not too many.

[laughs]

Not too many. I have to go out tonight. We're going to Minetta Tavern with, with Jeff and Sarah for a little holiday dinner.

Ooh. Do send my regards, please.

I'm getting, I'm getting four or five hours max tonight, and then touching down in LA-

Okay

... tomorrow.

But then when... Well, keep your Wednesday chill. Keep your Wednesday... What time do you land on Wednesday?

Like, 10:00 AM. I mean, that's the thing. That's why I leave that early is 'cause you get a full day in LA. I'll g- get the rental car.

Mm-hmm.

I'll be at Backyard Bowls, you know, I'll have ass in seat by noon.

I'm gonna go hit, uh, Max & Helen's with Ryland at noon if you wanna pull up.

I'm good. I don't need to carb load at noon. Um, I-

Mm-hmm

... I d- although that place does look good, but is it possible that it's just a diner?

It is a diner.

Yeah, but is it... I understand that, but I'm saying, like, is it so traditional that it's... What the, what's the idea? It's just better or it's just more expensive?

Yeah, I think it's just, like, if I were to do regular diner food, a, a Belgian waffle, a tuna melt, bacon, eggs, and a hash brown, you know, I would do it-

But good

... this way.

[laughs] But good.

Me being-

Yeah

... famed How Long Gone guest-

Sure

... Nancy Silverton. You know, what if, with her mind, what would those bacon and eggs look like?

Sure. I'm sure it's delicious. I mean, it looks fucking banging. And it's funny you brought up waffles.

Mm.

Because I had a waffle moment that I wasn't... So-

Waffle moment

... Blue Bottle in, Blue Bottle in Japan is, like, very good and there's a lot of them.

Mm-hmm.

And there was one sort of connected to my hotel, and Mike Nouveau was like, "You have to have the waffle." I'm like, "What's the fucking waffle at whatever?" So I, o- on my way out, I'm like, "You know what? Fuck it, I'm gonna give myself a treat. I'm gonna have a waffle." I didn't realize-

Who are you?

Bro, these motherfuckers have the... They, they bake that shit when you order it. Like, they pull the fucking, they pull the, they pull the dough out and press it and then give it to you, which I was just not expecting.

They should. They, I mean, I think, I think most, most waffles are made to order, and so it's just like a reg-

Not in a coffee shop, though, right?

Well-

Like, in a, it's like in a to-go setting?

This is different, bro. This is different.

I, I guess.

Well, I, I know that the waffle, the, the Ninja waffle maker-

Yes, yes, yes

... it's like a, it's a hot waffle maker. I don't have any Ninja stuff, but everyone says the, the waffle maker and the Ninja ice cream maker, they're actually good and, and killing it, butI think people are really waffling now. They've, like, perfected the vertical load pour in. Like, the waffle iron is vertical-

Oh

... not flat. [laughs]

Vertical load pour is crazy.

You just hover over the slit and then it just, you just- [laughs]

Not to go, uh, not to go mano mode, but that's crazy.

So all you do, you just hover over the slit and you drop-

[laughs]

... your batter right into the, right into the, there should be a little crevasse. And then you just hit a button, cross your fingers, God takes over, and then it shits out a perfect Belgian waffle, which sounds-

I mean, it's delicious

... you know, just in, just in terms of how gravity and cooking works, it doesn't make sense, but apparently it does. But I was hoping it was gonna be more of an Asian waffle if you're getting these in Japan.

No, this was, this was a classic... They had, like, the full machine, like, that looked like a restaurant. You know what I mean? Like, the-

You get Nutella on there, you get some chocolate fudge, you get a maple honey bourbon.

No, it's just plain.

Okay.

That's why I liked it, 'cause it was just, yeah, [laughs] it's just regular. It was delicious, and it's exactly what I needed. But I will say at the lounge in Tokyo, something I've never experienced before, inari tofu pockets, one of my favorite delicacies.

[laughs]

Bro, they had those things, they had those things lined up like sausage links. [laughs]

So you were all, all the way on the other side of the world and you were still able to, uh, to, to find one of your favorite-

Not even-

... lunchtime treats

... not just, not just find it, Jason. I'm talking they had these things lined up like fucking sausage links for real, for real. They had the all-you-can-eat inari tofu. All you can eat.

[laughs]

Banging. Banging.

Uh-

So good

... I guess the joke is that that dish was invented in Japan, but-

Yes, yes

... so it's a likely place to see inari tofu.

No, absolutely. I just, I wasn't, I wasn't expecting it, you know? And when I saw it, uh, I was, I was pleasantly surprised. 'Cause the lounge obviously stinks 'cause they got, you know, they got hot pot in there basically. So it's a little, it's a little-

When, when you say it stinks, you're speaking literally, as in the odor is repellent. It doesn't like, "Oh, these couches are uncomfortable and, uh, it stinks"-

It's the only-

... like in the critic kind of way.

Yeah, exactly. It's the only airport lounge I've ever been in where I thought I might leave smelling like food for a t- 13-hour flight. You know what I mean?

Okay.

Where there was no, there was no-

Like a Hokkaido fish market when you walk in there, huh?

Exactly. [laughs] Exactly, exactly, exactly.

[laughs]

We have to talk about this, this Rob Reiner stuff, 'cause it's one of the darkest stories I've ever heard.

Yeah.

I, I really... It's really one of the darkest things I've ever heard, to the point where it's like I actually... And I never feel like this, but the, the media is really reaching. And, like, a guy from The Hollywood Reporter wrote a story about going to dinner with him 10 years ago. It's just getting... It's just too much.

Oh. Oh, so it's like the same fever when somebody dies. It's like, "Here's the one time I was in the background of a photo of that person-

Yeah

... in 1996-

Yeah

... when I was a kid, and I'm gonna write my dedication post" kinda thing?

It's that. It's that. But it's, it's just really dark and just, like, I don't know, kind of unbelievable.

Or Marc Maron is like, "Remember when he was on my podcast in 19-" [laughs]

Yeah. We replay, we replay the Rob Reiner episode, you know-

Oh, yeah

... is what Maron would do. But yeah, I mean, it's like, I, I know obviously that those, those movies are all classics and, and the guy's a national treasure, and some people don't like him because of his politics. But I mean, come on. Like, that shit, that shit Trump said... [laughs] Trump's usually pretty funny. [laughs] Like, we've-

Mm-hmm

... we, we, we agree on that. That was, that was like OD you suck. Like, p- you... This is why people hate you. It was a nice reminder, because I think we're so numb to hating him-

Yeah

... that it's a little bit like, oh yeah, you're actually... Like, this is insane that you think this is okay to say.

Yeah. I mean, you know, people, people always mention, yes, he's awful, yes, he's this, yes, he's that. But man, he's so funny. Truly funny. And it, and we need moments like this to really remind people, and I think those moments are happening more and more every week or in every month, you know, him talking about, you know, a beloved filmmaker and actor decades over, known as the nicest guy in town.

Like, even, like even-

Every single person loves him, and he's just like-

Yeah

... what, what did he say? Oh yeah, his Trump Derangement Syndrome. "Due to the anger he caused others through his massive unyielding incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as Trump Derangement Syndrome." [laughs]

[laughs] Mind crippling. But I mean, he-

So he, in his mind, he is being funny. He's doing a funny Trump-

Yeah

... tweet.

It's just not the time.

But it's just ti- the... Yeah, it's like, this is what you should be doing when, like, one of your enemies, like, is walking down the street and there's video of him, like, getting pantsed or, you know, like, something small and embarrassing happens to a person that you are an enemy with. You know, Rosie O'Donnell moves to Europe and he'll take a dig. That's fine. But when it, when the, when the body's still warm and, you know, a, a m- a mother and father killed by their own son, something that could happen to Donald Trump, who knows? Eric, keep an eye on that guy. Barron, he's strong. But yeah, it's just awful. So hopefully more people are gonna be like, "Yes, this is really bad." And then, but then on the other hand, what do we got? Gavin Newsom.

The, the best, the best twist from this thing, or the m- one of the more interesting things, is that this, that I guess the son was seen arguing with Bill Hader-

Yes

... at Conan O- at Conan O'Brien's Christmas party, which it, Bill Hader doesn't seem like a guy, um, that I would wanna talk to. And I can assume-

[laughs]

... that Bill Hader was probably not in the mood to talk to the guy who's been up for three days, you know?

Yeah. And I, I don't think-

Asking people who's famous

... yeah. [laughs] I don't think it has anything to do with Bill Hader. I think it was just the dumb luck of he's the person that this guy ended up-

Yeah. Oh, absolutely

... landing on. You know? It's not-

Of all the guys-

It's not because it's Bill Hader, it's just he was the unlucky person

... of all the guys to talk to at Conan O'Brien's Christmas party, Bill Hader is the guy who's got the least time for this kinda thing-

[laughs]

... is, is what I'm, is what I'm saying. Bill Hader doesn't like himself. Like, uh, he definitely doesn't wanna talk to you.

Yeah.

But yeah, I, I don't... I mean, it's dark, dude. I wanna, I mean, yeah, it's, it's too dark. It's like, I, I don't really know. Like, it's been a, it's been an interesting couple days as far as dark stuff goes.

We got, yeah, we got Brown University, awful tragedy. We got Sydney, Australia, an awful tragedy. We have the right trying to say that gun control is useless.

The video of the guy tackling the shooter-Like a guy that owns a fruit stand just nutting up and tackling the guy and then getting the gun from him is, is sort of like why we have the internet.

I think that's, that's also why we have Australians. As, as the rest of the world gets more pussy-fied-

No, an Australian

... Australians are gonna be there.

He was drunk, but whatever. He still saved the day. You know, we don't, we can't, can't prove anything.

Little liquid Kuro.

[laughs] A little... [laughs]

He got him just that-

Got a little liquid [laughs]

... that's Au- Australian smelling salts when you see KD on the bench giving a little...

[laughs] No, it was a-

But yeah

... he tackled that motherfucker.

Truly awful, truly awful. It's a horrible way to kick off the holiday season where we're supposed to be resting and hanging out with our loved ones and reflecting on a year that was not awesome for a lot of people, unless you are a billionaire. How Long Gone is here to hopefully, uh, give you a little time to-

Yeah, yeah

... turn, turn CNN off, turn Bloomberg off for, for an hour and-

Let's be real, let's be real. Fox News, you can turn that off too.

[laughs]

Let's, let's just be honest, let's be honest.

To turn, you can turn off the Bari Weiss interview-

Dude

... for just 45 minutes. Go, go walk the dog and do the dishes, listen to us.

I gotta read this Bari deep dive on the plane tomorrow. Shout out to, to friend of the show Kareem, New York Magazine, uh, Reasons We Love New York cover.

Mm-hmm.

But to, I mean-

It's big

... him, I mean, look, Kareem's cover is great. The Cameron Winter, Debbie Harry is probably gonna be my winner.

Yeah, you can't really compete with that one. I was talking with the photographer, the Subway Hands, say- I, I told her that that was my favorite, and she said it was hers, her f- her favorite as well.

I don't, I don't know who that is.

You know that Instagram account, Subway Hands?

No, I've never seen it. Is that the person who... But that's the person they hired to... Basically they do this-

Yeah

... so they hired them to do their thing, is the idea?

Yeah, Subway Hands, it's like a Instagram. It has like a half a million followers. It's just sort of like candid images of people's hands-

Oh

... on the subway.

Okay, okay, okay.

You know, it's a, it's a classic slice of life.

No, it sounds good. I'll follow.

You know, you've got, you've got a woman wear- reading The Paris Review wearing loafers. You got a guy with a Discman. You got a guy holding a stick, crossword puzzles. It's all there.

Dude, I, I almost b- I almost bought a Discman in-

Damn

... Tokyo. They had one at Be- they had one at Beams, and I was like, "Man, should I buy this? It's like 100 bucks." I feel like I'm, I feel like I could be a CD guy, but then I pumped the brakes. I think I was delirious.

You've got compact disc derangement syndrome. I'm going to buy you one on eBay, Chris, don't worry.

I want a cool one, though, that's see-through, you know?

Hmm. Well, just write down e- the exact SKU on Santa's list-

[laughs]

... and we'll make sure that it comes.

All right, we have a guest. Oh, wow, look at h- this motherfucker... All right, be quiet. We're g- we're gonna intro you. I might say your last name wrong. We have a friend, our, our friend today. Our guest today is our friend George Siverus. I think that was close.

Maybe Cr- let's try Severus.

Oh, same shit. Fuck you. All right, that's the same. That's too-

Oh, no, yeah, it's close. Tomato, tomato. Ask your doctor if Severus is right for you.

Yeah, it feels very, it feels very prescription-y. Anyway, George has a new special out, A Sense of Urgency, um, which I actually listened to today on Apple Music.

On title-

Which felt v-

Oh, Apple, yeah, sorry

... very modern of me. But it was just named New York Times Best Comedy of 2025 on the list.

Ooh.

I didn't see what else was on the list, so we'll get into that 'cause we gotta start, we gotta compare and contrast.

Was it better than Robbie Hoffman's special? We'll find out.

I wonder if Robbie made it in time, you know, under the deadline. We're gonna find out. All right, let's call George. [electronic tone] This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

Three times a week, and I, I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, uh, Stateside.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's three times a week, and, and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say.

[laughs]

Give, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers. Well... And no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris, and sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to s- be in the same room with them because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself and that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes, so you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over six million people globally are using it and, you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh. You know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself. Maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha. And just think and be like, "Damn, I really am him." You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is betterH-E-L-P.com/howlong.

Every time I go to the doctorI walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, "You're fine," you know? "Drink more water."

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly.

That's about it.

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[laughs]

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You know, I do think Robby's honestly probably came out after they made that list, which, and I bet you-

I told you

... it, I bet you it would've made it if it came out a little earlier.

All right, who else is on this New York Times good comedy of st- of time list?

[laughs]

Like, what else is on there?

The New York Times good comedy of time.

I went out and got the print edition over the weekend, and actually the way it's formatted, I'm right next to Amy Poehler. [laughs] So it, it, it's, it's my, you know, I'm tied with someone else for, you know, my, uh, category, and then next to me is new talk- best new talk show, and it's Amy Poehler.

What is the category you're in?

Okay, so thank you for asking.

[laughs]

So there's various, you know, there's various, he does, like, best impression, best satire of the left, best satire of the right, and there's one category he always does, which is, get this, best parenting comedy.

Mm. Mm.

And so I have a, this, like, long 10-minute joke in the special that's, like, about what if I had a kid.

Yeah, yeah.

And so [laughs] it is me tied with, uh, the comedian Rosebud Baker, and the description starts, and he's like, "You know, if you want really great, like, tight jokes about parenthood, um, you know, Rosebud Baker has a special. It's all about being pregnant, um, and it's really great." And then he goes, "But the best comedy about parenthood comes from a gay guy who doesn't even have a kid." [laughs]

Damn. Okay.

And it's like-

So you, you came through with a category maybe you weren't expecting to be recognized in.

I really, I [laughs] it's, it's honestly the most offensive... Like, imagine-

[laughs]

... actually having children and doing comedy about, like, how difficult it is to be a mother, and then some gay guy comes through-

Yeah

... and has this, like, literally the joke, as you may have listened to it, Chris, is like, you know, the, the joke where I'm talking about, like, having an imaginary adult daughter.

Yeah, I, and I think you should be able to pick a, a New York NYU graduate.

Exactly.

I love that idea. You just go and kinda pick one.

Yeah.

We all, we all know that Amy, don't we, George? Who's your Amy, Chris?

Who's my Amy?

You know, the, the, the, like, the daughter I describe.

Yeah, no, I know. Amy, Amy also wasn't the right name for me. I didn't wanna say anything, but it doesn't feel, it does, it doesn't-

Okay, well-

... feel NYU-y enough, if I'm being completely honest with you.

So here's, I had an initial... Amy-

How Jewish is Amy?

What about-

For what I... [laughs]

What about, like, a Camille or a Chloe-

Camille

... or something? You know what I mean?

Okay, so it's funny you say Chloe. I had an early version of the joke where I was like, would brainstorm names, and I'd be like, "Yeah, she has, like, an effortlessly chic name, like Amy or Anna or Chloe Sevigny or something."

[laughs]

And people, and like, no one, it wasn't quite right. Like, it, I obvious- it, it was almost, like, too on the nose to name drop Chloe Sevigny.

Mm-hmm. I wasn't even thinking of, I wasn't even think- Chloe is just a traditional hot girl name. We all-

Totally

... that's understood. In the straight community at least, we recognize that.

Yeah.

I don't know if, is there, are there hot guy names, or is it just, like, Chad?

No, I think there are hot guy names. Um, I don't know why, but the name that's coming to mind which is so not right is Paul. Paul is hot, I think. [laughs]

Paul, famously my middle name, George. How is that?

Well, there you go.

[laughs]

How do you receive that?

Famously. That's famously. Well, he's well known-

And-

... for having a middle name

... yeah. And, and Jason Stewart.

Jason Paul Stewart.

Yeah, yeah.

Paul Mescal.

[laughs] Fucking hell.

Yeah. Yeah, Paul Mescal. Maybe that's why I'm thinking Paul.

What's going on with Paul Mescal? I feel like people are talking about him being old.

Yes. People are saying he's lying about his age because he has some grays.

Well, I think that's just 'cause he's Irish. They, I feel like they age, like, you know.

I-

Well, it's all the generational trauma. Yeah.

[laughs]

The- they're born, and they're already like [gasps].

Do, do you think, do you think he is lying about his age? I could see f- uh, shaving off a few years.

Do you think Margot Robbie is lying about her age?

[laughs]

Margot Robbie?

Did you say Robie?

I, one time someone told me that it's Robie, and I just say that from now on.

[laughs]

Fuck, fuck them. Fuck them.

And then I-

That's Margot, that's Margot Roberts.

That's what cleans my floor when I, when I go away.

[laughs] I love, uh, y- I, I love over, or, like, I love saying Cara Swisher 'cause someone once told me it's Cara Swisher.

[laughs] Bro, people are lying to you, bro.

[laughs]

They're clowning you. All right, so-

Cara Swisher.

Mar- M- Margot Robie. You're saying that Mrs. Robie is lying about her age?

I think that there's, you know, for a long time people were saying Ms. Robie was lying about her age.

Speaking of p- speaking of Pauls, this is a very divisive one.

Uh-huh.

And also a good for a Tomato Tomahto name. Paul Dano or Paul Dano. How do you say it, and is he hot?

A- yeah, it's actually Donno [laughs]

[laughs] It's a secret third.

It's a secret third. Um-

Paul Donno.

Yeah, that was sort of, um, an all-hands-on-deck situation with the Hollywood types. It was, it was kind of their-

We've been busy.

Yeah.

Guys, Paul, Paul is not known for his looks. Let's not kid ourselves here.

But he has a very, he has a very beautiful wife.

Yeah, he's rich. That, I don't know if you-

[laughs]

I don't know if you know how it works, but sometimes when you're rich and famous, you pull a chick that's a little bit out of your league. That's the common-

And he's also really smart, okay? That's important to me.

Yeah, I, I, I know that he doesn't use social media and he just reads in his garden and all this shit, and there's some people that like that. I'm just saying, he's not a, a, he's not a leading man because of his looks. He's a leading man because of his-

Does he crush animals to get off a little bit, yeah?

I mean, is he... I don't know. Would you call him a leading man?

[laughs]

I would say he's sort of a, a character actor, and a leading man only for a, a, you know, maybe a Kelly Ripa.

No, I feel like he, I feel like he's somewhere between character actor and leading man.

Yeah.

I feel like he's character actor plus.

That's fair.

Like, just 'cause he's so-

He's not gonna play Batman

... he's so, like, people think of him as such a talent.

Yeah. Well, not, not, not Quentin Tarantino. [laughs]

I think Quentin Tarantino is also ugly, so that has something-

Well, well, someone... I saw something. Someone was like, "Quentin Tarantino is so ugly that him not addressing that ever is actually a form of dishonesty."

I said, yeah, I, I s- [laughs] I said this, I said this.

You said that?

I, no, no. I r- I said this to Jason on the podcast 'cause I saw the same thing, and I was like, "That is such a funny thing to fucking say."

No, totally. It's, and it's really so true. It is kinda like if someone, if there's something noticeable about you, ev- if it's like you're very tall, very short, very, like, have like a, a specific thing, it does make me suspicious of you if you're, you're never joking about it.

Yeah. If Jason never talked about his beautiful ears, what would we even have to-

All right. I, I think, I think my height maybe.

No, we're covering. Oh, yeah, if you never acknowledged, [laughs] yeah, that'd be really funny.

[laughs]

Like, "Oh, I, I, no, I never hit my head. I don't know what you guys are talking about."

Never talk about a big dick. It's like, what's going on inside of that head of yours, you know?

Wait, I just, I just, um, I got served [laughs] this clip. Okay, one of my favorite things that I keep getting served is, do you guys know what Sniffy's is, I assume?

No, I don't know what you're talking about.

[laughs]

Okay. [laughs] Great.

No idea. Is that some gay stuff? I don't know anything about that.

I think you guys probably know more about Sniffy's than most gay men I know.

[laughs] That's based on your literature.

I delete it, and I re-add it, and I delete it-

Yeah

... and I re-add it.

I have it blocked.

You are telling on yourself so much, Jason, because it's actually not an app, it's only a website. You have to go on a, on a browser. Although, I think now, now it's an app.

Well, depending on what country you're in, George.

That's right, yeah.

I use a VPN, so I can kinda do it anywhere.

I don't know what they're doing in Estonia.

[laughs]

[laughs]

But I w- I keep getting served clips from the official Sniffy's podcast, and I'm thinking about this because you were talking about penis size.

Bro, how do you, can you get me on that? I really wanna go on that.

[laughs]

I, I literally, I think it's a DM away, Chris. I, I don't think it'll take much convincing for them.

[laughs]

But they keep, uh-

We can get this done before lunch

... it's what my co-host Sam Tagger calls this, uh, the sex nerd phenomenon. Like, people that are very kind of, like, methodical about talking about sex, and that's sort of what the podcast is like. And they had someone on, and from what I understand from these clips I saw, he is, like, s- [laughs] he seems like some sort of motivat- like, speaker, and his specialty is having a small penis. Like, he goes around sort of, like-

[laughs]

... breaking the stigma around having a small penis.

Is he, is he good-looking or buff at least?

Yeah, tot- totally, like, totally fine, you know, normal, uh, good-looking.

But his thing is he's out and proud, and he wants to change the narrative.

I do all of this with a tiny dick.

Yeah.

Yeah, get like me, bitch.

[laughs]

Yeah. But they're also, they're using, they're using this very, like, social justice language about inclusivity, but talking about having a small penis, and it's like... And you know, he's being like, "You know, I'm not gonna lie to you. Like, there will be some rejection."

[laughs]

"But it's all about taking in that trauma and not letting it become anxiety. Like, and then using it to your advantage." And then he goes into, like, "You know, some guys actually prefer a small dick because they can't, like, t- you know, take a bigger one, and it actually can be your secret superpower."

Wow.

[laughs]

Yeah.

That's, that's exactly what I want from the Sniffy's podcast, 'cause I'm not-

Exactly

... I didn't know where that would be going as far as what they're talking about really and what the subject matter... Have you, you haven't seen any other episodes, I'm sure.

Oh, I have s- I'm telling you, I'm being served these... I'm seeing, you know, one-minute clips. Uh, but I, I haven't listened-

Yeah

... to a full episode. There was another one that got served to me that, uh, it was all about fisting, and this guy, again-

It's a four-part series

... like, very nice guy, clearly is so- sort of some sort of, like, sexual health advocate. Like, I'm sure he's doing great work. But he goes, [laughs] he was talking about fisting, and he was like, "That's why it's so important to break these myths that you see on fisting Twitter." [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

I'm like, that is, that is so iconic. Like-

That is brave. That's brave.

[laughs] Yeah.

I keep getting these videos on Instagram of, like, a guy, he's, like, in the airport, and he's young and good-looking, and he's like, "Yeah, I'm, I'm j- I... They don't know I'm leaking right now. I love getting fucked-

Oh, yeah

... in the bathroom at the airport." And I'm like, "Dude, relax." He's like, "I love cruising in the airport 'cause I might get caught." I'm like, "I think if you get caught in the airport, you could actually be in trouble."

It's a federal crime perhaps.

Yeah, like, I don't think they're... I, you might not make your flight, you know what I'm saying?

[laughs]

To be a prostitute if you don't, if you don't-

And they're saying-

... if you get caught

... "Worth it."

Yeah, it's crazy. I, you guys are crazy over there, George. I'll tell you what, man.

How do, George, how does one hop onto fisting Twitter?

I, I wish I knew.

What are the keywords?

I'm not there. I'm o- I'm learning what I know through the Sniffy's podcast.

[laughs]

I'm not on fisting Twitter.

Mm-hmm.

I'm kind of, I'm like one of those boomers who under- who, like, learns about memes in The New York Times style section, but, but for fisting Twitter.

[laughs]

I thought, yeah, I was, I thought, yeah, I'm, I'm s-

Have you seen these mames?

[laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

6'7", what does it mean?

Speaking of, um, fisting, have you seen the Epstein photo with the black rubber glove where each finger seems to be something that you would insert inside of a hole?

Oh, no. [laughs]

I haven't even seen that, you freak.

It was, it was, like, on CNN, guys. I, I didn't l- find it on 4chan.

Is CNN what you call your, your Reddit threads that are private? [laughs]

I've been... No, no, Jason's on fisting Twitter. I've been, I've been listening to... I don't know what possessed me to go down this path, but-I, I have, I'm on a, I'm in a race with Audible where they, I keep paying for it because I have free credits, but then I don't use them fast enough, so then I keep paying for it for an extra month. Mm. And so I ke- [laughs] And so I'm like, I need to download- It's like my Pilates app ... 13 audiobooks. And so I downloaded the, um, the Epstein accuser memoir, but the only place I listen to audiobooks is the gym, so I'm literally, like, at the gym listening to the most traumatic- [laughs] ... story of repeated, uh- Repeated sexual assault of a minor ... of assault. But I... And, and so I'm learning so, yes, I'm learning so much about, um, Epstein from this book, and I'm like, I've become one of those people now that's like, "That's not funny." [laughs] Like when pe- [laughs] when people joke about it. I'm kinda, I'm kinda, uh, I'm kinda out on Jeff and the whole story. Yeah. I feel like it's, it's dragged for so long- I know ... and it seems like there's no- There was a new expose today in The Times. Y'all sound like MAGA. [laughs] No, there's just no finality to it, and there's no... Uh, it, like, it's, it's sad because I think the way it's, it's dri- it's, like, drizzled out is it desensitizes you to it, and now it's just like- Complete ... it's like, "Oh, yeah, whatever. I don't know. More Jeff shit came out." I don't, I don't... It doesn't seem exciting. Yeah. It becomes more about, like, the conspiracy. It's like, yeah, it becomes more about the meta-narrative than what actually happened, which is, like, legitimately one of the most horrifying things that has ever happened in history. But I want, I, I- It's real drizzled out ... still wanna think there were that, I think every- I don't think there's any surprises that we don't know about at this point. I don't think anybody that would, would sho- Like, I don't think Conan O'Brien's on the list or whatever. [laughs] You know what I mean? I think, I think it's just gonna be- No, no. Kimmel, though. Kimmel? Yeah. No, I'm kidding. [laughs] I would love if Kimmel was on the list. Kimmel's old private chef was, was Epstein's private chef. I think Kimmel's a sinister deviant, personally. Well, for su- I mean, yeah. He's some, he, he's the boy who cried wolf a little bit. But don't you think, though, that, like, he, with The Man Show, it's like, it's almost a Howard Stern situation where he put his id out there so much that there's nothing else left. Like- Well, he used to, yeah, I mean, it's, he used to be cool, and now he's not. And you hate to see that in a public light. Sure. Now he's funded by the Disney Corporation, it's different. But Colbert did the same thing. Like, you at least, you know who they are and you know that they're putting on a mask to please Disney, whereas someone like Ellen, it's like the whole thing is that she never showed who she was for, like, decades. But that's why Ellen's cooler. Yeah. Is she did it right. I mean, she had to- That's true ... she had to disappear unfortunately, but that's not her fault. Robbie Hoffman's got a great joke about that in her new special. Jason, we're talking about my special today. [laughs] I know. That was the joke, George. That was the joke. I did watch your special last night, though. Thank you. I paid for it on Amazon Prime. Wow. Well, thank you for supporting Amazon. [laughs] Where would you prefer I watch it? No, no, I really appreciate it. What did you think? I thought it was great. I mean, I have a few q- I'm glad ... I have a few questions. I mean- Okay ... w- but I, I w- I watched Robbie's special and your special the same night, so it was a real, you know- Does it, is it bad that I listen to it? 'Cause I've never done that before, and when comedians are like, "Yeah, my new album," I'm like, all right, cool, you pressed your album at Third Man or whatever, but- [laughs] Yeah, yeah ... this was available on streaming and Jack White wasn't involved, and I was, I had to do some packing, and I, I never- No, that's fair ... do stuff like that, but I, I found it really nice. I actually don't mind, I don't mind a comedy album. Like, I, I think some things, you know, some things obviously like a facial expression helps or, like, a gesture or something, but I'm not an especially animated performer. I think you can get pretty much, like, 85% of what I'm doing with audio. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not Carrot Top, bro. It's all good. Yeah. I'm not doing- Your cadence could almost lend better to an audio-only format, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, you know, it's the podcasting training. [laughs] It is. But you're, you're better looking than most comedians, and I'm, I'm not- Do you think so? ... I'm not trying to... Yeah, I'm just, I'm being honest with you. Yeah. And you, and you've gotten hotter since the last time we podcasted. That's, that's also true. And I, I wanna- Well, Jason has been responding to, I don't know if he's on Sniffies, but he's been responding to some of my, uh, m- more, uh, PG-13 rated photographs. [laughs] Oh, are, I didn't know you were posting. I, am I, I'm sure I follow, but no PG- No, you follow. I, here's what I did. I- Am I not on the, am I not on the close friends hole pics? No, no, no, yeah, this was not close friends. [laughs] I, the, the week that, the day, in fact, that the special came out, somehow, uh, you know, when Instagram decides, like, they, we don't care about you anymore and nothing is getting views? Like- Mm-hmm ... the day that I was, like, literally trying to promote something, suddenly no one was seeing my stories. And I had this flashback of like, "Oh, is this what people talk about when they say face for algo?" One of the most- I don't, I- ... awful phrases in the English language ... do you believe, do you believe it to be true? [laughs] Well, I didn't. I t- I didn't until this ha- I was like, "I'm, I'm, this is a last ditch effort here. I'm trying to promote a special, and Instagram is not showing it to anyone. I guess I have to do face for algo." And I'll tell you one thing, George. Really? Yeah. [laughs] I deleted everything I had posted, and then I posted my face, and then I posted. I always thought that was, like, a hot chick fake thing. Same. Like, "Oh yeah, oops, body for algo." Literally. Now free Palestine or whatever. Exactly. [laughs] You know what I mean? No, it's very real. I mean, every, every DJ I know, when they're, like, post- or, like, a band, when they're posting the, "I'm playing this festival," or, "Here's this tour," whatever, it's never the image of the information that you need. It's always like, "Here's me, and I'm only wearing a bra." It's Di- it's Diplo doing yoga in his Emirates suite instead of, "I'm playing, I'm playing Vegas again." It's something that's gonna get thrown into the shuffle. Yeah, the fact that I know exactly what Diplo post you're talking about is so humiliating. Sorry, Diplo's one of the best posters we got. I agree. I mean, he, he's, he's unbelievable at posting. And he looks great. He looks great. This is what I'm saying. That's why it's no problem for him to, him to post face for algo. Yeah. Or torso for algo. Have you h- have you heard, do you know anyone who's tapped that in your community? Diplo? Yeah. [laughs] Ooh. He's famously bi. I don't believe that. Oh, in my community, like, gay men. I always think, try to think of, like, hot women I know. He's bi? Jason claims this. I, I've never heard this. I don't think Diplo is bi. [laughs] I, I'm not saying he's bi. I'm saying he's, maybe he's everything, you know? Yeah, I could s- I could see that. He's, he's seen the end of women and is interested in seeing what else is out there. T- totally. Yeah, yeah. I, I think that, I think that, I think when you've fucked enough chicks, you can go down that road. That's, I mean, free Diddy, but that's real. Yeah, that's what happened to me. [laughs]

You slayed enough puss over in Athens, you almost-

Yeah

... you, you had to go again.

Yeah. I was, I turned, I turned 18, I said, "That's enough of that."

[laughs]

[laughs] I've had quite enough.

You looked around, no one's left.

I've had quite enough.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, I was, I was talking about how I noticed that you and Robby Special both had, you both had bits and similar thoughts on gay men having children.

Mm.

And, uh, we, we were just talking about, you know, how children can be a bummer and sometimes do murders and stuff like that, but what are your thoughts on, uh, on gay men having children?

I know. I mean, I don't know. I just got back from a vacation with our niece that was like, it has really made me soft. I'm like, I wanna quit my job and just be a full-time uncle in a way that I never really thought I would, uh, feel. And you would think that would make me want children-

Podcasting's not really a job, but that's f- I see what you're saying.

Uh, listen-

You can go to doula school at night-

[laughs]

... when you're podding during the day

Podcasting is not the only thing I do for barely, uh, minimum wage.

[laughs]

[laughs]

I have various other jobs too. Sometimes I go on tour and kind of barely sell medium-sized venues, um, and kind of look at the sheet they give me.

We'll come check you out in January in S- uh, in San Francisco. I, I heard that you guys have a couple shows there.

Yeah, yeah. Are you, are you gonna be there?

No. For SF Sketchfest. We did a show there a couple-

Yeah

... years ago, though, and it was really good actually.

It was pretty, it was pretty good.

It was great.

We enjoyed it.

Yeah, it was good.

Sketchfest is, like, w- maybe the best planned comedy festival, um-

It was well planned

... I think, in America.

And, and, like, we didn't have any fans in the audience because they didn't wanna go, but everyone that was just there for the fest were all, like, nice and engaging and, like-

Yeah, they-

... good attitudes. It was great

... they all really, they all really show up. Um, no, but you would think that, like, having a niece, or, like, enjoying having a niece would make me want kids more, but it actually makes me... I'm, like, completely satisfied. I'm like, they live a 10-minute walk from us.

Yeah.

I can go there any time I want. And, like, if I wanna hang out with a little, a, a baby and, like, play with blocks, I can, and then I can just go back to my home-

Mm-hmm

... and get on sniffies. [laughs]

That's right. Y- uh, the sniffies is gonna decrease if you had a little...

[laughs]

But I agree, the whole point of being gay is you don't have to do that.

Well, but the thing is, because they're not, like... I mean, I agree with you in theory, but I also know so many gay dads who are like, "Okay," like, dropping off the kids at school, and then I have, like, a hookup, and then I'm going to the gym, and then I'm going to my job as VP of marketing at-

Yeah, no.

[laughs]

That's very... Yeah, that's... Getting, yeah, like, hit, yeah. No, that's, I've heard stories like that too.

What a day.

But I think they're, they're also-

Yeah

... like you said, they're rich. And that's the, the... I think the big differentiator is that any, any gays I know with children are rich.

Yeah. I had this other joke that I'm trying to do where I was like, it's about my own internalized homophobia or something, and I'm like, yeah, the rich g- gay men I know that are having children, it's almost feels like they're giving it to themselves as a trophy. And then the poor gay men I know that are having kids, it's like, what are you, Christian? Like, what are you trying to prove?

[laughs]

It's almost, like, darker.

It is darker. I, no, I completely agree with you. I completely agree. But you, you're a different, you guys are intellectual gays, which is a different-

Thank you for saying that

... I would say that's a, I would say that's a different tier altogether.

Well, of course the fantasy is to sort of live in a Woody Allen movie, and it's like, it's, you know, I'm Wallace Shawn, and his, uh, you know, the, the, the, his kid is, like, leafing through Harper's on the floor-

[laughs]

... um, as he's, like, entertaining, uh, 15 lesbians who are all adjunct professors.

You taught him how to make martinis.

Yeah, exactly.

[laughs] That could happen. I don't think that's out of the question.

I mean, yeah, we'll see. I don't know. Do you, you guys are firmly no kids? I mean, I know you currently don't have children, but, uh, never, i- it's not in the future?

Thank you for listening.

I don't understand completely about-

[laughs]

... what it really means.

Has no one had the talk with you, Chris, with the birds and the bees?

[laughs] He doesn't know where they come from.

Yeah, yeah. That's, I'm like, so hold on, you're saying, oh, okay, I got it.

I knew there was a stork narrative-

I got it

... but I feel like that's not, uh, uh, really kicking around anymore. We, I, w- neither of us have kids. Not, not in our, not in our immediate plans to.

But I don't know if... I, I just think that the, the New York of it all also makes it, like, I, it just seems crazy to me.

I mean, I know. But also, I, I'm married to someone who grew up in New York, and, like, cannot imagine living... Like, he's literally never lived anywhere else. And even as a theoretical i- idea was like, "Do you, if we have kids, maybe it would make sense to move somewhere that isn't New York." And he was like, "That's," like, "that's a weak-willed thing to say." [laughs] Like, it's like-

[laughs]

... "No, if you, if you can't make New York work-

Uh-huh

... then you don't have children."

I kind of a- I kind of agree with him.

So you're saying it'd be easier to give up? Yeah, bitch.

Li- literally, yeah.

Where would you move, George? Where the fuck you gonna move? Portsmouth?

Upstate.

You gonna go, where you gonna go?

I mean, I know. Well, 'cause there's, I think that honestly-

Mykonos

... then the best thing to do is to just move to Los Angeles. Because I, 'cause then it's sort of you're bringing the suburbs into a major city.

Mm-hmm.

Whereas moving upstate or moving to the suburbs does feel like a, a defeat.

Moving, moving upstate feels like the, the lowest form.

It really does.

Shout out to all of our upstate listeners. We love you guys.

No, no, I mean, I don't know anybody who lives upstate all the time. I, I, I'm, I'm sure they do.

I know a, I know a couple people.

David Geeting.

What about, like, Connecticut? 'Cause that's very trendy right now, is to move to, what is it called? Litchfield County?

Oh yeah, that's it. Don't worry, I hear about Litchfield County every fucking day, George.

Chris gets a few Zillow and Redfin links to that area.

I got, I got my Zillow, I got my Zillow updates coming in every day, but I would never go there full time. And I just want a pool.

Totally. But I do think that's, like, somehow that has remained chic compared to, like, moving... I mean, you wouldn't-

Mm-hmm

... to move to, like, Hudson now would be so lame.

LA is the right... I-

Yeah

... 'cause I live technically in the suburbs. In, in six hours I'm gonna go to a puck dinner at Mr. Chow and then go to a gay guy's white elephant party with a bunch of chic photographers.

Oh.

And then I, I drive back over the hill and I'm back in suburbia. You can't do that in Hudson or Woodstock, you know?

Woodstock's, Woodstock's far.

What gay guy?

Ian Markel, photographer.

What gay guy? Yes, you do. All, I thought all gay guys knew each other.

Well, you know, it, it depends.

I mean, maybe you don't know each other, but you've hooked up.

Sure, sure, sure.

I mean, at least-

Yeah, no. I mean, that's, yeah, it's like me and, uh, Jonathan Bailey. Like-

[laughs]

You know, I don't have his number.

I was talking about, I was talking about how not famous-

[laughs]

He was the one who was People's Sexiest Man of the Year, correct?

That's right.

And I was tr- I was having this argument, 'cause he's not famous. Like, he's, he's in all this stuff and he's really big. I bet 50 or per- If I polled the streets of New York City, half people wouldn't recognize him by his face.

I... So I was talking to Sam about this, and I've, I've noticed something with him where women love to be like, "I want him to fuck me." Like, they, they, they love to, like-

[laughs]

... really sexualize him, and it's this weird, uh, because he's gay-

Wait, what's his name again? Let me Google him.

Jonathan Bailey from, like, uh, Wicked. You know, I first saw him-

Wicked?

... he was in Phoebe Waller-Bridge's, uh, show she did before Fleabag.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, flex on it. All right, you're a real head.

Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

All right, got it.

Called Crashing. Not the Pete Holmes Crashing, but it was also called Crashing.

No, we don't talk about Pete Holmes on this podcast.

[laughs]

Don't you fucking worry.

[laughs]

Yeah, I'm sort of like how-

No Pete Zone. We don't... Nah, nah. [laughs]

[laughs]

You should have him on. You should have him on and then murder him. [beep]

What is a Revolve Man, Jason? It's... Oh, funny you ask.

What's a Revolve Man?

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Genuinely, yeah. It's one of those things, we're all busy. Let's say we got an important dinner coming up at the end of the week. It's Tuesday. You're working every single day. You don't have time to go shopping and try clothes on and blah, blah, blah, or even just browse. You know, Revolve, it's all there. It's all curated for what you want, and then you click buy, you go to bed. Couple days later, that shows up in packaging that's a little nicer than y- the other places you're buying clothes from, and you've got a nice look for the big night out. And then you're like, "Wait a minute, I don't even have to return this because I enjoy this clothing and I wanna wear it again another time," versus all those dumb other websites. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last-minute that actually works, Revolve Man always has it. Go to revolveman.com/howlong to shop and use code HOWLONG for 15% off your order. Free two-day shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That is revolve.com/howlong and use the promo code HOWLONG to get 15% off your entire order. Offer ends soon. Don't sleep on it. And you don't need clothes too. You can get just, you know, a cool candle or an incense gift for a baby shower, whatever it is. Revolve.com/howlong.

Hi, Talk House Network listeners. It's your old friend Nels Cline from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer, and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan; Chautauqua, New York; Lafayette, New York; Bethlehem, Pennsylvania; Vienna, Virginia; Forest Hills, New York; Portland, Maine; Tulsa, Oklahoma; Memphis, Tennessee; LaGrange, Georgia; Charleston, South Carolina; Virginia Beach, Virginia; Wheeling, West Virginia; and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson, that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilcoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. [upbeat music]

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Hey, ho, let's go. [beep] These, I used to, I think during my heyday of, of, like, taking tons of pills and just listening to podcasts all day, I un- I unfortunately-

You made it weird

... I unfortunately listened to hours-

[laughs]

... of that podcast. I was like, "This is maybe the least cool guy that's ever existed on planet Earth."

I mean, it's, it's insane.

'Cause he's Christi- he's Christian too, right?

Yes.

It's so crazy.

Very in touch with the emot- his emotions, though. I think that's his, his crowning achievement.

I remember one time I was listening to that, again, this must have been, like, 15 years ago, and I found [laughs]... And I was in the middle of a conversation where Tig Notaro was explaining how important it is to take a probiotic every day to Pete Holmes. And I was like, "I need to go to law school."

[laughs]

"Like, I cannot be doing this right now. I can't be listening to Tig Notaro tell Pete Holmes that it's important to take a probiotic."

Where did Pete Holmes come from? Who co-signed him?

He g- I- thank you for asking. He came from Boston, where I also started comedy. So he has, when I was starting in Boston, like, a lot of people had a lot of trauma with Pete Holmes because he... Whatever. I, I don't know what his, like, status in that community was, but he had just gotten his show on HBO, so it was, like, this big success story.

But that show on HBO, they showed like three episodes of it and then got rid of it.

[laughs]

It wasn't even like-

I mean, it was honestly, like, I don't know if it was two or three seasons, but it was definitely multiple seasons. I wanna say it was three.

Was it really?

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, I thought that was, like, a come and go kind of situation. I didn't know.

No, it had a little, it had some legs.

It had a moment.

It was during a time where you could do that.

It was also back when, in a post-Louis... I mean, not post, like mid-Louis world, people thought that the lifestyle of a stand-up comedian was somehow, like, the most interesting possible thing you could make media about, when it's in fact the least interesting thing.

We were lied to. Yeah, we were lied to.

Yeah, we really were lied to, yeah. I mean, it is, you are just... 'Cause I've done it. You, all you do is go from bar to bar and try out bad material to silence.

[laughs]

Like, that is it.

And at the end, you eat a sandwich with a fat guy and have a cigarette and go to bed.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, especially, I mean, yeah, b- between, I don't know. I, I don't wanna spend any time with Louis or Pete Holmes, pre- pre-cancellation even. But I, I, you know.

But how do you feel about Louis now post-cancellation? 'Cause I've heard that heThat the m- the material is sort of not bad

How do I, h- how do I say it without, I do not care at all about Louis CK. And I think that the whole-

Okay. And you never did?

No. It's fine. It's all fine. Comedy's not funny. No offense to you, of course.

No, no, I get it. [laughs]

But these, these guys aren't that... I mean, people are like, "You don't get it. It's so cerebral." I'm like, "Dude, I think I do get it."

No, it's not.

And I don't think it's that funny. And I think he's... I think also when you get canceled, people really want you to be a genius even more. Like, the people that like you r-

Yeah

... really want to uphold you.

Well, there is this idea, you know, comedy is so, like, a- at the most basic level, because it is the most, like, populist art form, you're trying to make, like, a room full of people laugh. By definition, it can't be that smart, and that's okay. Like, I, I think that's, like, a interesting challenge.

Mm-hmm.

But what that means is that then the bar for calling something cerebral or smart is so low-

Mm

... that it's like, yeah, I do think Louis is f- is more smart than, you know, many other comedians, but that just means he's, like, average-

Well, do you feel that-

... in intelligence

... uh, when I was watching your special last night, I thought a lot of the, you know, this is some specific material, some higher-minded subject matter. Have you wrestled with the thought of reducing the intelligence level to gain your popularity?

He can't. He can't. It's... He'd be too-

Uh, first of all, thank you for saying that

... it'd be impossible. [laughs]

Um, I will say, because I, when I started in Boston, something I really liked and I thought was, like, a really productive challenge, unlike people I know who started in Brooklyn, is that I was constantly performing for, like, straight guys with, like-

Mm

... Red Sox caps and their girlfriends who were wearing, like-

You could just say it, racists. You can say it.

Yeah. Well, I did actually. The, the show I hosted in Boston was in a MAGA bar. It was in a m- in a bar that was MAGA-owned, and they had a framed MAGA hat. This was like 2015, so it was, like, leading up to the 2016 election.

Wow, early.

And they had, like-

It was a first edition MAGA hat?

Yeah, probably. [laughs]

[laughs] Sorry, go ahead. Sorry.

Um, and, uh, and I got, like, a sick validation out of being like, "Okay, these, these people, like, in theory hate me, but I'm making them laugh."

Not bad for a queer.

Exactly. [laughs]

Speaking of, speaking of specials, I w- I checked out the Matt Rife Crowdwork holiday special over on Netflix.

Now, talk about cerebral.

Dude, it was in... He did that shit in Tempe, Arizona. And I was just like, "Dude, this is a twisted l-" He's like, "I've never been here before." But he, dude, he had, like, middle-aged Black men crying-

I know

... at what he was saying. I was stunned.

I know. I mean, I think he's, like, ultimately evil, but I also think he's incredibly talented at what he does. Like, it does take a talent to go anywhere and just-

He is very good at what he does. The, the thing that he does happens to be-

Evil

... feel, make me feel icky watching.

But I don't feel any different.

Yeah.

I honestly, and I know I'll get killed for this, I, watching that or watching Louis CK is no different to me, honestly. Like, and I think that, like-

That's cool

... it's all sort of the same. When I watch comedy, it all feels sort of the same to me, and I think it's partly because the, the, like, convention of it is the same.

No, I understand. I mean, it's like if some... If it's like I used to f- I mean, I guess I still sort of feel that. I, not that I now know more about fashion than I used to, but I remember when I knew, like, literally nothing, all the, any runway photo would just... I'm like, "Okay, this looks like-

Yeah, it looks like, okay, this is clothes

... Yeah, like Mugatu from Zoolander.

[laughs]

[laughs] Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's like-

That's what I mean

... I don't care if it's something respected or something not respected. It's, it's just like-

Mm-hmm

... I'm just looking at it and I'm like, "Yeah, that's someone dressed crazy."

I just think-

Same

... that there's a... It's also, I mean, I don't know. We talk about this shit all the time, 'cause I'm just like Dave Chappelle w- I don't know. When was he funny last? I don't remember.

With Chappelle I do think, I do agree with you more because I'm like, I was also so young when Chappelle Show... I mean, I used to love Chappelle Show, but it was a-

Well, Chappelle Show's fucking really funny.

It is, but I, I, it was, to me, I was a teenager, like, or not, I was... I don't remember. But like, I, I had, like, a high school sensibility. So I don't know if I were to re-watch it now, would I still think it's, like, genius? Maybe.

I don't know.

There'd be the nostalgia part of it where you-

Yeah.

Yeah, probably.

You know?

Probably.

Um, could you explain the origin of your love of WASP culture?

Yes. Um-

What's not to love?

What's not to love? You know what I realized doing that joke, is a lot of people, like, don't know that, uh, acronym. Like, people would, like, ask, like, has h- will be like, "I've never heard of the term WASP."

Really?

Which I, I thought, yeah, I don't know. I mean, you never know. People come from, you know, all different backgrounds. But I will tell you about my love of WASP culture, which is that, so my fa- I mostly grew up in Greece, but I spent, like, six and a half, I believe, years living here when I was a kid. And we lived in suburban New Jersey, and it was, like, a very WASPy, it was almost, like, Connecticut adjacent. It was like a New York City commuter town.

Mm-hmm.

And my parents were foreign. My parents were Greek, and all our friends were mostly, like, other diaspora, like a lot of Indian or Jewish families.

Enemies of the WASP.

The, yeah, that, yeah, that was exactly, that was the community I was a part of. But the overarching sort of, like, vibe of the school I went to was very country club WASPy, like a lot of lily, like men, like grown men in Lilly Pulitzer ties and, like, salmon colored shorts and, and whatever.

Mm-hmm.

And I mean, it just se- it really seemed more foreign to me than if I were to, like, like, study some tribe as an anthropologist or s-

[laughs]

Like, it, it, it just is so different than anything I was familiar with. I do think that, uh, things would make way more sense if we treated WASPs as, like, this, um, sort of other.

As the alien, the, as the reptiles-

Yeah

... that they are.

Yeah, yeah. Like, I think I have more in common with most other, um, cultures. [laughs]

Mm-hmm. Did you develop a, a, a naughty love of WASP people? Like, did you ha- do you have a WASP fetish, like a Bruce Weber kind of vibe?

No, I, that sort of, I, yeah, I mean, I say that, I, I do think I make that joke in the special, but I... No, if anything, I, like, really, um, it r- I have a real distaste for it. [laughs]

Okay. Wow.

I mean, you know, you could take that distaste and use it in a sexual power way is what I'm saying.

Except for both of, except for Bruce Weber. [laughs]

I wish I was a WASP. Unfortunately, I'm not. I'm not.

You ever put a WASP's head in the toilet before you tap that, George? You know, something like that.

[laughs] I'm not. I wish. What, what do you think about white people like Jason kind of-

Uh-huh

... going and, and-... raping your country for all of its good stuff.

[laughs]

You know, the, the, Greece has become a hotspot for-

There's no more good stuff left after I got to it

... white people to take donkeys down to get some-

[laughs]

... fucking-

No, I was-

... grain alcohol or whatever the fuck you guys do over there.

[laughs] I was, I was, uh-

I have a great donkey guy if you need one, by the way, George. Text me after.

I tried to give, I tried to give Jason Greece recs, but then he had, he was already, like, on his way back when, when we were talking.

Mm-hmm.

Um, no, I actually think Greek people, in my experience at least, and I think it's a little different now with the rise of Airbnb and with, like, truly, like, leisurist tourism. But when I was growing up, Greek people, like, loved tourists, 'cause that is, like, where any money, uh, in this, like, o- overall, like, failing country comes from.

[laughs]

Like, it's like they don't have any significant... I mean, the two things that make money are shipping and, and tourism. Like-

Right

... so I think generally speaking, like, I think it's not a coincidence that, like, Greek people are generally, are really good at English. Like, you know, grow up speaking English, are very good at, like, uh, hospitality. Like, I don't think-

Mm

... they see tourists, historically I don't think they, they've seen tourists, uh, with as much suspicion as, like, people in Spain or Italy or France or something.

Yeah, yeah.

They're like, "Wow, you guys wanna come here? All right, cool." I mean, w- without the tourist, what would you guys be doing? You know what I mean?

Well, literally-

It gives you-

I know

Hey, don't, don't, rem- let's not forget about Stavros when he dated Paris Hilton and several other... You know, there was the Greek shipping heir era of Hollywood.

Oh, that Stavros. I thought, I thought we were talking about my-

[laughs]

... my, my good friend Stavros. Fuck yes, I was like, "I-"

Well, that, that Stavros, for all I know, he might've been doing the same thing low-key. I mean, you know.

I think that if Stavros wanted to date Paris Hilton, he could.

Mm-hmm.

Look, I don't know him that well, but that seems like a stretch.

The power of the Greek.

[laughs]

I mean, I know that you guys are powerful people, and, and, you know-

No, I think he specifically is a very powerful Greek person. I think he, like, can, uh, can unite the country.

That's cool, actually. That's a real vote of confidence from one of his own.

Yeah.

Do you think he ever will, though?

No. [laughs]

[laughs] I also, I wanted to talk to you about what podcasts you have beef with, 'cause I know that-

Ooh

... just, I mean, not actual beef, but you know, when you see Bowen Yang and his buddy kinda doing-

[laughs]

... doing their thing.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And, you know, 'cause we have Smartless. It's like, all right, these fucking guys do exactly what we do, but they're rich.

Of course.

Bowen and Matt, they do the same thing, but they're, you know. What do you think about it? 'Cause I saw the-

No, I, we mostly have beef with Michael Barbaro and Ezra Klein. Um, the other ga-

I like that. I like that

... the other gay guys in podcasting.

[laughs]

And, uh, you know, they know what they did. [laughs]

I saw, well, I saw this amazing clip of Matt getting in trouble with Andy on Bra- like, there's, like, a clip of, of Andy being really clearly like-

I saw that clip, yeah, yeah

... "You owe me a book. Where is it?" A- a- do you think that was real or fake?

Here's what I'll say about Matt, and I, I don't wanna give a PR answer. Matt is literally, Matt, uh, gave me my first ever writing job. He is, like, one of the most, like, like, Matt is one of the most supportive-- I know I sound like, you know, um, uh, Amanda Seyfried in an interview or something.

[laughs]

Matt is, like, legitimately, like, one of the most sup- supportive, um, and, like-

That is so awesome

... kind people I've ever met in my life.

I, no, I believe you completely.

I believe it. I believe it.

No, I believe you completely. I just thought it was-

And I actually, like, I, if a- if Matt is in a feud with anyone, I will be team Matt. I don't think he's in a feud with Andy, but I'm-

Oh, I don't think they're in a feud

... I will literally-

I think it was just a very, I thought it was a very interesting, like, I can't hide this moment on-

Yeah, definitely

... on television on a show where nothing is ever serious.

Well, I sort of think Andy likes to push the limits of how honest he can be on that show.

Totally.

Out of, out of sheer boredom and monotony.

Y- e- e- exactly, 'cause he has to deal with all these fucking morons all day. I mean, he-

Don't talk about my girls like that, okay?

[laughs] Oh, please. I can't-

I don't, don't... I love the Mormon community. I'm not gonna let you talk about them like that.

No, in 2020, we are, uh, you know, [laughs] this is, we are leaving... I, I, I'm now like a gay guy on, uh, "In 2026, we are leaving Housewives behind."

[laughs] Period.

I'm, I'm, I can't listen to any more-

What is the tea, George? Tell me more.

[sighs] I think I, I, I think my thing with the Housewives is I, what, during the, like, peak, peak lockdown, I overdosed. I watched all of RHONY from beginning to, you know, 2020.

Mm.

Not RHONY. See, when you say RHONY, you give yourself away as someone who's OD'd before. Just spell it out.

[laughs]

Let's, let's try to cover our tracks a little bit more.

No, I was, it, it was RHONY and Vanderpump. I did those two 'cause people told me those were the best ones at that time.

Mm-hmm.

And then after that I, like, couldn't, I couldn't do it again.

My favorite thing, actually, not to go back to Matt, but his boyfriend is from Below Deck, I think.

I know, and he was recently, like, hospitalized.

He was hospitalized for clearly overdosing on party drugs, but saying it was vaping.

Ooh.

I, well, that I can't, that I can't comment on.

And he put up, hold on, Jason. He put up the fire, the shirtless selfie in the hospital thirst trap.

Mm.

Like, looked insane, like, so ripped, and I was like, honestly, dude, worth it. Like, you look, this is sick.

I over, I was vaping cocaine, but it was vaping.

[laughs] I was vaping so much.

I loved it. I loved every part of it.

Well, actually that reminds me o- of your special. You said that every, every month, or actually no, this was on your podcast, where, like, every month you should have one sort of, like, dumb, mind-

Yeah

... numbing, brain-rotty thing amongst all the-

And I do think that's a good policy, like, one, like, one thing per month, because I think, I think people take the whole poptimist, like, you know, reality TV is actually like Shakespeare. Like, I think people take that too far-

[laughs]

... where it's like, well, okay, but maybe read one book. [laughs]

I, look, as much as I like reality TV, I know that it's stupid. I do think intellectualizing-

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah

... every single thing-

It's, it's good to have a Nomi fry... ratio of

I think Nomi, yes, I think Nomi has a great ratio

Chris, Chris has a good ratio

I like to think I have a good ratio, but I do think he-

Chris has a good ratio

He could cut the Bravo down a little bit

Chris, you famously don't watch narrative television. Is that still, is that still true?

No, I watch, no, I don't watch movies. I watch narrative television

Oh, you don't watch movies

Thank you, thank you to our Criterion Collection friends for sending me a 40 set, 40 disc Blu-ray box set of the best films of all time. Uh, I'll be re-gifting that-

I would l-

... um, but I do appreciate it

I would absolutely love, if you were, if you wanna give me a exit gift for this, uh, appearance, I would [laughs]

I've already, unfortunately, I, I've, I've already committed to my friend Spencer, who's the biggest film head I know.

Well, I, I did listen to you railing against Letterboxd, uh, on the, on the latest episode

Because it's dork shit. I mean, d- tell me if I'm wrong.

[laughs]

Like, why would you spend your time doing that?

No, the most amazing way to use Letterboxd is almost like Twitter in 2012. It, like watch a movie, and then the, and then you write a one-sentence thing that's like, "Uh, I guess she really did like that piece of pi- that piece of pie," or whatever. [laughs]

Yeah, yeah. That, that's funny. No, I, I understand that it ex- I mean, Jason, even when Jason explained it to me, from his point of view, I understood it, but I just can't imagine being like, "This is what I wanna spend my time doing," when the people who do it for real don't get paid or get any recognition.

Totally.

I don't, I just... Maybe that's my own twisted mind.

Movie knowl- it's, you're, you can make a currency out of movie knowledge, you know? And that's-

I know, and it seems like the gi- gift that keeps on giving. Like, sometimes I will like accidentally find myself in sort of corners of like the mov- like film internet, and there's like whole celebrity personalities that we don't know about, that, that people are like-

Yeah, film influencer

... he does some of the best video essays, like some of the best video essays about, uh, restorations, uh, 4K restorations.

[laughs] Not 4K restorations.

Okay, well, um, speaking of the one bad thing per month to maintain-

Yeah

... the healthy ratio, I think maybe you were talking about the Canadian gay hockey show, Heated Rivalry. Chris and I-

Yes

... were talking about it on the last episode.

I heard.

Neither of us have w- actually watched an episode, so we've got knees on the ground with you.

Mm-hmm.

Let's get into it.

Knees, knees on the ground. [laughs]

Knees on the ground is gonna be, knees on the ground's gonna be reused. That's gonna be reused.

It took you an extra second.

Fuck, damn, that's good.

That's gonna be reused.

That is really good. Write that down. Uh-

O- okay. I will, I will

... I am, well, I-

That was off the dome, to be clear

... I'm very disconnected. I'm sure there are like whole political arguments that it's like one of them, you know, people are saying that it's like a metaphor for, I don't know, World War II or something. I have no, I, I- [laughs]

Jordan Firstman, Jordan Firstman's in jail for this.

[laughs]

Like, he's literally-

Oh, this-

He's literally at Rikers for his comments about this

... do you know what's crazy about Jordan Firstman, is everyone is obsessed with trying to, people wanna find some fault with him because they find him personally annoying. But in fact, he is completely faultless. He's like a nice person.

Mm-hmm.

He's talented. Like, a- but people just find him annoying because he like plays annoying on screen, and because he's like hot, and, you know, posts like sexy photos, and is addicted to Instagram. And people are like-

Seems to be confident, a good-

Yeah, like people are like, "We are, we need to find-"

Yeah, I've never met a confident gay guy. That's so rare.

[laughs]

Yeah, it's really crazy. Um-

Is, is open about his insecurities, has made peace with his existence. A lot of people are jealous of that, and the, the-

But people do j- yeah, people are je- people do find him annoying, and I also think people, people find people that got famous during the pandemic, uh, remind people of the pandemic.

Ooh.

Like, I really think it's like Jordan, because he got so big... By the way, he's a talented like actor, writer. He has many talents, but he, because we were all in our homes, he started doing impressions of banana bread. And then like-

[laughs]

... those got big. And so then when people see him, they're like-

Don't get me started on Shane. We only have so much time

... I c- that I can't even get into. But so people see-

Actually, I would like, if you could, I'll write, I'll make a note of that

... so, so people see him on television and they're like, "Oh, is that that faggot that was on my screen in 2020?"

[laughs]

Like, "He must be immoral. He must be neoliberal."

No, you're kind- this, this is a good... Actually, no, I think you're onto something with the COVID part of it. It is like triggering.

Yes.

I think there's something to it. But I'm sure that this is, there's other, you know, cases that prove that point.

Mm-hmm.

But I think you're onto something.

Also, um, as, I'm o- I'm only assuming, but as a man of Greek descent, do you feel like he's a poor representation of body hair?

Jordan?

Yeah, like he's letting it go a little too much

I think he's, I think he's a great representation.

Okay. Yeah

... I think he's a great representation of body hair. I actually think it's like the rare-

But is it a little bit like, pull it back, honey, you know what I mean? Like, his nipple's always out.

Well, I mean, mine, my nipples are not always out.

[laughs]

But I have more body hair than Jordan. I have to be con-

Well, that's what I'm saying, but you have it tastefully covered, and um, it'll come out a little bit, but I feel like every other photo of Jordan-

To- totally

... it looks like, you know, the Village People in '77

[laughs]

Just heaving forest. [laughs]

He's living, he's living out loud as far as his buttons go.

He is. Yeah, since when is living out loud illegal in America?

Damn, Jason.

Okay.

Yeah, exactly, Jason. When is that e- when, since when?

Are you guys ever... You guys are not really taking your tits out. Why is that?

Uh, I don't think, I think straight men in general need to pull it back.

Yeah.

I think, I think we've gone too far. We did too much.

And I've never been in a photo shoot where somebody has said, "Let's do one with the shirt off." That's never happened to me. [laughs]

Yeah, no one... The, the only thing I've ever done, I did do a shoot, and this is Jason's wife's fault, where I did wear only my underwear and a puffer jacket on an exercise bike.

Wow.

Thanks to matches.com, they're no longer around. I don't think this has anything to do with it, but that was as far as I'm gonna take it.

Yeah, but like a, a, a photo shoot set with like three cool guys who are wearing like Carhartt pants and like have cool tattoos, if they're like, "No, you should do it. It looks good," you can't really say no, you know? It's easy to talk you into getting those-

That's true

... trousers down.

If Ra- if Rachel said, if Rachel said, "It was like you can be my costar, you just have to take your shirt off a little bit," I mean, that's a different story. I think there's, there's, he, some of these people are, are getting, uh, higher returns on shirtless stuff-

Mm-hmm

... than I ever could. [laughs]

[laughs]

Do you know what I'm saying? Like that, that's what I mean. There, there's like a end game, and they can say we're acting.

Sure.

I would like to do it in a straight version of a Lee Pace kind of shirtless way. I feel like his shirtlessness is, is tastefully done. He lets you know what's going on, but he doesn't have the air of a guy who's always got his shirt off, you know what I mean?

You gotta check out, you gotta check out that show on Apple TV. He looks, he's literally a Greek god. He literally is-

Is he?

Yeah, it's unbelievable.

See, that's the thing. People lack imagination. It's like you see someone, okay, yes, Lee Pace looks like a Greek god, I get it. But you're gonna be so literal with it. Like, it would be so much more interesting if he was like a CEO.

[laughs]

I think that-

Okay, okay

... you're right, but I also think that the world is dumb and we have to feed the, we have, we have to feed them with a spoon.

No, completely.

Chris, what was you, the name of the, the women who go dress in loose clothing at the gym?

Oh, shit

It's like-The undercover bodies or whatever it was

Oh, my God.

We need a little bit more of that.

Yeah. I... Men, gay men need a lot more of that.

Oh, it's like something built?

Uh, sleeper build.

Sleeper build.

We need like a-

Oh, that's good

... like a, like a Zac Efron, "I'm a CEO," and then, uh, the kid jumps in the pool and I gotta take my business suit off, and everyone's like, "Holy moly-

[laughs]

... this guy's jacked."

Yeah.

Holy moly.

No, I respect people where it's like, no... It's like once a year, once a year you post... And I feel like Lee Pace used to be like this, where it would be, like, very little sort of content, and then once a year it would be, like, a photo taken, like, from down, from under his, uh, balls-

[laughs]

... that's, like, literally looking up at the underside of his nipples.

He's, he's spitting cum out of his mouth into the camera-

Yeah

... on the floor.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

And like, "Just one a year."

Yeah, and it's like, "Happy New Year." [laughs]

I think this is l- [laughs] I think this is literally because of this show. I think it's one of those shows where it's literally, like, that's the job is, like, you're-

Yeah. Yeah

... you're a centaur, basically.

[laughs]

So you don't have a choice.

Yeah. You know, I saw him, I saw him fully nude on stage in Angels in America.

Must be nice. That's the gayest play I've ever... Uh, and that's saying a lot.

Say more.

Because e- I, I would say Broadway is the gayest thing to ever exist, so.

Completely. I would say Broadway is so ga- i- it, it's so gay that it actually literally horseshoes around to being straight. Like, it-

Mm-hmm

... there's something about, like, a Broadway musical or, like... 'Cause it becomes just, it's Times Square, and what's straighter than Times Square? Like, it just, it, it becomes J- Disneyland.

There's nothing gay about Times Square. It's true.

Yeah.

Nothing I wanna do more than see Angels in America and then hit Hooters for 12 flats-

[laughs]

... before I head back on the train. Sounds perfect to me.

Okay. Well, just to, just to circle the horseshoe square-

Uh-huh

... do you agree with Firstman that the sex in Heated Rivalry is not correct to the way it happens in real life?

Um, what it is portraying is literally, like, a gay virgin become... like, having sex for the first time. So I think the critique, all love to Jordan, I think the critique isn't really relevant.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I think he's like... Yes, I think if you're, like, empowered and promiscuous and going around Los Angeles having a lot of sex, like, it probably doesn't look like it looks on Heated Rivalry. But, like, th- Heated Rivalry is, is, is essentially like a coming of age show.

Mm-hmm.

Mm. So two fumbling hot hockey players.

Yeah.

They might not know where it goes that first time.

Yeah. Yeah, they're like... And they're just, like, so infatuated with one another.

[laughs]

They're like, one of them is like R-

Where's the five hole?

Yeah.

Right. [laughs]

Yeah.

One of them is Russian and closeted.

Oh, Russians.

Oh.

I mean, yeah, they can't-

Did you know that he's Russian?

I, I've- I haven't watched the show. I don't know anything.

No.

The only thing I know about this show is Jordan getting in trouble for saying that.

No, no, he's Russian. He, "Suck my cock, Hollander."

[laughs]

And then the, his phone rings, and it's like, "It's my brother. He wants more money."

[laughs]

And that's the entirety of the show.

Yeah, that's, actually, that sounds-

Wait, that's Anora

... it's great. I, just to, for the record, I am enjoying the show, and I cannot wait-

Okay

... to watch the latest ep.

That sounds pretty good. Okay. Well, I mean, I, this is also a win. I think it's a Crave original, the Canadian HBO.

Exactly.

Which is a big, that's a big win for our, our, our friends up there.

I like a, and I like a return back to the kind of '80s, Cold War, Russia is the enemy, will they, won't they kind of thing.

Mm-hmm.

It has, like, a Rocky and Rambo-

Completely

... feel to it.

It's amazing how Russ- like y- the, the, the... Russia is the one place that I guess popular media is allowed to be completely racist against.

[laughs]

Like, you can just portray a Russian as truly, like, the most depraved, disgusting, like-

Mm-hmm. It's true, actually. It's very true.

And we're running out-

Yeah

... of countries that we can do that for, you know?

The, yeah, that's right. [laughs]

Um, speaking of, uh, multicultural, would you, would you consider yourself to be an anti-Rosalia gay? A rare-

Oh, no, I don't... Well, I do have this... No, I like... Listen, you know, I have to, I have to-

Lithon

... th- I have to... Lithon. I have to first, um-

[laughs]

[laughs]

... I have to first finish my PhD in romance languages in order to understand that album.

[laughs]

Um, no, I'm s- I actually, I like what I've listened to, and I think it's great. I just think it's very interesting how all these gay guys I know that are, like, literally addicted to ketamine are like, "This is the most, like, cerebral [laughs]... It's like, this is, like, the most, like, complex album I've ever heard."

Bro, this is all I say about this shit. Nobody that says they like it understa- likes it understands it.

I'm also like, the people that started saying they liked it the second it came out, I'm like, "So is it complicated where you need to spend five weeks with it, or is it not?" Like, 'cause the first time I listened to it-

Like s- saying how good Infinite Jest was the week it came out-

Yeah. It's just-

... and you're like, "You didn't finish it, bitch."

Yeah, exactly.

But there are some people that are able to enjoy and grasp the music of that-

I guess

... right? There has to be, you know? Otherwise all-

I don't know. I don't know any of them. I don't know any of them.

There's something that feels very academic in her, with her whole... Uh, again, I like her music. I, I am like, I support her, whatever. I, it feels very academic. It feels like the opposite of, like, a Charlie, which is so, like, you know, id first. Like, cl- you know, we're going out, we're doing drugs. Rosalia, it's like, get in the classroom, because there's a test.

[laughs]

Pencils down.

Yeah.

I don't disagree with you.

Yeah, okay. Okay. That makes sense. I mean, you know, sometimes you watch Below Deck, sometimes you watch the Ken Burns doc.

Yeah.

You know? There's-

But I was telling Sam this, I actually think Rosalia would be best served with, like, she should do a residency at Lincoln Center where it's like she performs that album live with, like, a full orchestra every night. I would go. I'd pay a lot of money to see that. I think that's how it's meant to be, you know, experienced.

Mm-hmm.

But I don't know. I don't know if me listening to it like-

Not at Bumbershoot?

[laughs]

[laughs]

Right. I don't know if, like, me going to, I don't know, Horse Meat Disco-

[laughs]

... and having the beat drop during Berghain is gonna really help me.

They're gonna try. They're gonna try. They're gonna force-

I'm like, "Oh, is this the original Latin?" It's like, no.

They're gonna force a square peg in a round hole-

Yeah

... on that one, for sure.

Well, it's one of our specialties, Chris.

That's, that's true. Are you drinking?

I'm not paying attention to lyrics on Horse Meat Disco.

I'm drinking a seltzer. I'm drinking a seltzer.

That's, no, that's my favorite, the Vintage brand.

Oh, yeah. From Fresh Direct.

I us- see, I, I used to get that at, uh, Key Foods over there on Avenue A, but you're drinking the plain?

Smell like broke in here.

Yeah, just plain.

It's the best, it's, it's the be- it's kinda hard to find.

Well, it's on Fresh Direct, which is what I use for groceries. Shout out.

I use Fresh Direct as well now. Um, but I, I didn't... Okay, I didn't know it was there. I'll check that out.

But they're always, these days, and let me get on my soapbox, these days are always out of Good Culture cottage cheese, and I have to get the, the other brands they have, which are not as good. So.

There's a, there's a nasion- nationwide shortage of the Good Culture cottage cheese, George.

I know. I know.

Is this because it's a, a TikTok trend?

I guess so.

It's, it's because it's, it's very high in protein. That's why it's-

High in protein

... and then the ones that have more fat... um, have, are the ones that sell out faster 'cause they taste better.

Oh.

'Cause we don't care about fat and calories anymore as long as there's protein.

I, I can't imagine having a meal without protein. That's fucking disgusting, you fat sack of shit.

Says the one vegan.

I mean, it is true that, like, you see, like, someone ordering spaghetti al limone and you're like, "What is wrong with you?" [laughs]

I, I don't give a fuck about that, and I literally think like that now because that's how I've been told to th- like, I'm like, "Oh, well, I gotta have, I gotta get something."

Yeah.

It's part of a balance. Like, last night I had some, uh, some gluten-free spaghetti pomodoro-

Mm-hmm

... as well as a salad of pea shoots and arugula, as well as a nice rib eye steak, you know?

Well, there you go.

So you get a little bit of everything. But if you only get the limone-

No, I understand how-

Yeah

... you're just eating cardboard, brother.

It sure does taste good, though.

By the way, I'm spending all of January in LA, and I need the official How Long Gone, I need a recommendation list of what to hit up.

Where are you gonna go? Where are you gonna be, at Largo?

Yeah, I'm gonna be... Yeah, I'm doing the Largo residency. [laughs]

Actually?

They pa- they pay you zero dollars. Um, no, I'm not-

They pay you zero. You get to sleep backstage, but it's pretty sick otherwise.

Yeah, exactly.

Are you looking for mics? Are you looking for f- some, like, dope-ass street tacos?

No, no, I just, just like-

What's up?

Yeah, literally best street tacos, yeah. 'Cause I-

[laughs]

I mean, I've, I've spent a lot of time in LA, but-

Are you gonna be in a room? Are you just-

No, no, I'm not.

Okay, okay, sorry.

Um, no, it's just, like, a lot of little... It's nothing interesting. I wish I had something to announce. It's, like, a lot of little things.

Mm-hmm.

But I, I haven't lived in LA for an extended period of time since, like, pre-pandemic. I don't know what the cool restaurants are. I mean, I know Horses.

Mm.

No, that, no, we're-

But that's kind of all I know

... no, we're good on that. We're good on that.

And I know Greek, I know Greekman's.

Yep, yep, yep.

And I know-

Greekman's feels sort of a little too in your strike zone.

Hat and a Hat.

That's a little-

Yeah

... that's an unfair.

Shout out to Jonah, our dear friend at Greekman's. Um-

Oh, and then of course I still, all my references, it's like I go there and I go to Squirrel, and I'm like, "God, I love this."

Well, Squirrel rocks.

So horrible. It's so good.

Yeah, Squirrel rocks.

We're gonna have Jessica from Squirrel on the pod whenever she switches that dinner service on. Jessica Clark Stukin.

I've been, I've been hearing about dinner service for literally two years, so I don't know what's going on.

It's, the plan started in 2017, I think, and we're almost there-

[laughs]

... for din-din. But once it's coming out-

Can I get it over wine?

... we'll get the scoop with her. Um, are you, are you bringing the man out, or is this a solo bear hunting journey?

No, it's a solo, it's a solo bear hunting journey.

[laughs]

And, and the bear is Jordan Firstman. [laughs]

He has a job, so he can't really. He has to eat at all of New York's be-

Well, that's the thing-

I have a bone to pick with him, too. Him talking about La Vie Door like that, like, come on, bro, calm down.

Okay, I'm actually... Th- thank you for bringing it up, 'cause he actually, he requested that I-

Best restaurant in New York

... he requested that I bring up his list and promote it while I [laughs] while I was on here.

[laughs]

I'm not kidding.

Mm-hmm.

He's in the oth- he's in the other room. He might be able to hear me, but he, he said that, um, it's too late for him to come on to promote it, so I have to promote it on my episode. So-

It's, it's New York Magazine's Best Restaurants in-

Yeah

... in, in, in New York.

My husband is the [laughs] my, my husband is the restaurant critic for New York Magazine, and his list of the 43 best restaurants in New York is now live-

[laughs]

... on grubstreet.com.

I, I, I looked at-

Mm-hmm

... I just saw the La Vie Door headline, and I was like, "People are brainwashed."

Well, and, and guess who's doing the brainwashing? It's coming from inside the house.

I know.

Yeah.

I know.

[laughs]

And I, I, I, I don't mind. I can't vict- I can't brainwash her as a-

George, what are your thoughts on La Vie Door, then?

I mean, I, I went, I went when it, you know, I went with him when he went to review it, so it was very early on, and I loved it. I guess now it has gotten so overhyped that I understand if, if there's a, some sort of backlash that I'm not aware of. But, like, I did really enjoy it.

I don't think there's really any backlash.

You would, you would.

I think we went with Mike Greenbaum and Julie Wiener.

Oh, wow, heavy table over there.

Yeah.

Okay.

Heavy table.

Wow, must be nice. No, I mean-

Yeah

... I, I think that, I forget that you have to go out to eat every night now.

Well, not me. I go... Well, God, this is a sore subject.

And he's skinnier than you, right?

He- correct. I, and-

[laughs]

... and I, he, like, is constantly complaining about getting fat, and I'm like, "Okay, well, your waist is, I know your waist is skinnier than mine because I'm, you're getting cast-down pants that no longer fit me, so it is offensive of you to say-

[laughs]

... that you are getting fat when, like, it is, you know, it's right there in black and white."

That's, that's tough right in the household.

Yeah.

That's tough.

No, I, he gets so many good hand-me-downs from me, and I get nothing because he is both skinnier than me and likes wearing tighter fitting clothing, whereas I like more oversized.

[laughs]

So, like, there's nothing we can share.

But he's shorter than you, right, at least?

No.

Just kidding. I, I know that he is taller than you.

Same height, maybe he's a little taller. But I-

Okay

... uh, no, he has to eat, like, four to five times a week, and I usually join, like, once a week.

You mean out at, out at a restaurant in New York, you mean or-

Out at a restaurant, yeah, yeah.

Sounds like fun to me, I guess.

For some reason I would, I'd do that by my own, you know, 'cause I want to, but being forced to feels different.

Well, not just that, but then you're forced to, you're or- you would be ordering things you are not even craving.

Oh, yeah, I didn't even think about that.

Like, you, you would have to... I mean, the amount of, like, just, like, animal innards and liver and, like, uh, sweetbreads that he has to consume, it's too much.

You can only have so much quail per week, right, George?

Yeah.

That's true. I got to, I hit my quail quota, and I had to kind of tap out.

[laughs] Quail quota.

Yeah, we just had us some amazing squab at Babbo.

Oh, I went to the new Babbo. The shit was smacking. I didn't have any squab, but I loved it.

I actually don't know if his Babbo review is out yet, so, so maybe I sh- whatever, whatever. By the time this is out, it'll be out.

It doesn't matter.

Um-

It doesn't matter

... we went with, uh, we went with Lily Murata and, uh, and, uh, their wife.

God, what a dre- what a dream, what a dream Babbo ta- the only better thing would've been-

I know

... if Mario was there himself, but, you know, you can't win them all. [laughs]

Well, well, Lily, Lily is, Matthew said this, so I can't take credit for it, but he said Lily is the unproblematic Mario.

Damn.

Hmm.

Wow, my third eye just cracked on that.

Yeah.

That's, he's absolutely right.

[laughs]

Absolutely right.

Yeah, Lily, she tells me to sit on her lap, I'm not offended at all. I'm not scared sexually whatsoever.

No, I'm not. No.

No, I'm sitting. I'm sitting.

Sl- slaps my ass with a towel, it's welcomed.

Orange Crocs are definitely in the, in the wardrobe over there, too.

Mm-hmm. [laughs]

No, no, that's definitely part of the rotation.

Okay. Well, I'm, I'm gonna be in New York next month, I think. Let's try and get a power dinner on the books if you'll have me, George.

Um, well, Matthew will have you, but as I said, I'll be in LA next month.

Oh, that's right. That's right. Matthew will have me.

But he will, he will take you out, and you guys can have a nice romantic date.

Yeah. New York Magazine owes me money anyway, so that's perfect.

Well, join the club, sweetheart.

[laughs]

No. All right, thank you for, thank, thank you for joining us today, George. Always a pleasure.

Go stream his new special on Amazon Prime, or you can listen to it on, uh, Apple, Spotify, Tidal.

All the streaming services. A Sense of Urgency.

Thanks, guys. This was the best day of my life.

We try. We try.

[laughs]

Thanks again, and, um, we'll see you soon.

All right, bye bye.

High on my own again. Feeling kind of lonely again. Looking for a ride or die. It could be tonight. Friends say I'm crazy 'cause easily I fall in love. Gotta do it differently this time. Maybe we'll meet at a bar. I'll drive a fancy car. Maybe we'll meet at a club. And fuck all things later. Tell him I'm the one. And we'll have so much fun. I'll be the girl in his dreams. Ooh

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