868. - Chris & Jason

[upbeat music] How long gone? Uh, it's a beautiful fall Sunday here in New York. The leaves are changing. I- Jason, I'm, I'm looking at the basketball court near my house, and I noticed something. That you know how skaters bring brooms to spots to kinda clean it up so they don't, you know, hit their, hit their wheel on rock?

Mm-hmm.

Uh, a young Asian gentleman has brought a broom to the basketball court to get the leaves up-

Mm-hmm

... for his fellow players, and I just wanted to say that's a nice touch. It's very nice. I didn't know people did that with basketball.

I thought you were gonna go a, a different direction when you declared his race. I didn't know if it was gonna be a certain kind of broom.

No, no. It's a As- it's a, it's a all-Asian game right now.

Okay.

The homie, the homies are going crazy.

[laughs] Um, we're s- it's too early for me to even try to say anything funny about that right now, but I'll come... I'll circle back to it. I'm glad that the, that the homies get a clean surface. I remember doing that after we played tennis after it rained or whatever. You gotta-

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

... gotta bring, bring something out, clear out some of that water, some of that puddle action.

That... [sighs] Just the idea of, like, a 17-year-old getting on the Citibike with a giant fucking janitor-sized broom-

Hey, man

... to come down-

It's, it's Sunday

... to the basketball court. It's impressive.

Been waiting all-

It's true

... week to hoop on Sunday.

That's true. That's true.

And it, there's leaves everywhere. It's, it's, it's creating a not awesome environment for balling.

It's the right thing to do.

It's the right thing to do, yeah. It's, fall has sort of fallen here. It's gonna be 87 today. I'm sure it'll come down eventually. And sh- I'm, I'm looking at right now, I got a check in the mail. One of those envelopes where they, they make, you, when you... If you've ever received a class action lawsuit payment check, they sort of don't make it look like there's a check in there. You know what I mean?

Sure.

Like, some envelopes, it's c- it's clear that this is a payroll processing thing. There's a clear window, and it's giving check. And, and then these ones, not so much, but it's for being a Prius owner in 2000 and... having a 2011 Prius. Some random recall from forever ago, and I don't even know if I filled it out, but I just got a check for $352.44.

$300? Oh, [laughs] shit. Okay. I wasn't-

352.

That's, that's not bad. I thought you were gonna hit me with the 30 cents. That 350, uh, even if you opted in 10 years ago-

That's a car note on the Prius

... that's a [laughs] yeah, yeah. That pays for it itself.

Back when car payments were $350.

I've al- I always thought those kinda things, unless it, I, I guess class action, I always assume it's split amongst so many people that the, the amounts are so small. But I'm, wow, 350 is not bad.

And I don't remember what it's for. Maybe it was just... But it, it had me thinking about how back, back then, when Larry David was driving the Prius and, and all that, it was really a such a special time for somebody like me who could only afford a Prius and maybe couldn't even do that. But I had one.

[laughs]

And driving around Los Angeles, you know, Rodeo Drive or wherever it may be, and it was an equalizing vehicle. It was very zoron. It was very socialist, uh. It was, the millionaires have it, and tens of thousandaires have it. You know, Brad Pitt's driving one, and your sister at college is driving the same exact one. It was a special time for, for broke hos-

Yeah

... in LA. But now-

Yeah

... but then the, then I guess Tesla came around. Like, the, the thought of having a Prius now, I, I don't even know. I, yeah, I don't even notice them on the road. You're like, "Oh, yeah, Prius. That's funny."

Yeah, I don't, I, I, I... Sometimes, um, the early movers are too early, which feels like... But I feel like Prius had a nice, I bet they had a decade run of being kinda the only game in town that looked-

Had a good run

... that looked drivable. I mean, when that ugly BMW came out.

Yeah, yeah.

The Tesla, though, I guess that Tesla, I always... The, the Tesla, for whatever reason, was sort of viewed as high-end, but it wasn't actually that expensive. If I remember-

I don't know

... uh, like, if, if I've never had one, obviously, but I feel like-

Prius 30, Tesla 40.

Yeah, that's what I don't, that's what I don't understand. But don't worry. There's a, I saw a giant Rivian dealership that opened up over in Chelsea, so it's, you know.

[laughs]

You can still, you can spend $100,000 to-

Like, what, what neighborhood should we put the gayest car dealership in? Hmm, Chelsea seems fitting.

I don't even think people care. I, people, I think when the Prius came out, people actually cared about the environment and thought they were being, like, they were part of the revolution, and now it's just, I think the Rivian is just another way to flex. I, I, I think it has nothing to do with saving the planet at all. I think it's just, like, an expensive car.

Oh, for sure. For sure. And it looks r- a little more round than others, and it, and it doesn't signal Republican the way other trucks do. It signals-

Eh

... liberal truck ownership.

I, I think it-

But, I mean, a real conservative Republican-

Oh, you wouldn't drive-

... would never

... an electric car. Of course not.

No.

No.

No.

But I feel like a Tacoma actually is the most liberal truck you can have.

Yeah. And it's also somehow the most Punisher skull truck you could have at the same time.

I'm just trying [laughs] no, it's true.

Interesting, those Japanese homies over there.

I mean, that's good, good for Toyota. They got the lock on the market.

Good for, they're playing both sides of that coin. But it had me wondering since, since Tesla is in such a downturn, will we see a rise of the Pri-i? Because the, everyone is like, "Oh, the Teslas..." You know, there's a zillion reasons why people are, are not into Teslas right now, and it's not doing well. Is this the time where the Prius can come back and say like, "Hey, guys. We're, it's a hybrid."

N- no. No.

You go to the gas station. You spent, you know, you spend 50 bucks on gas a month, and we get 60, 60 MPG, 70 MPG, whatever. It's a regular car. No one's going to fucking throw their [smacks lips] milkshake at it in the parking lot. A grandma's not gonna key it. No one's gonna abuse your Prius. You're able to just be a normal person again.And get amazing mileage, and never have to worry that your charging station at the mall is full, and you know, maybe, maybe the Prius is gonna be dope again. Make Prius dope again.

We've moved past it. And I think people-

[laughs]

... only buy anything for a status symbol now. Like, I don't think there's any... I, I don't think anybody would... Like they also, maybe because it's not full electric it feels like a half step, you know? Like, I'd rather-

But I'm saying a half step is maybe the right amount of steps. Maybe the full s- the full s- [laughs]

Oh, I would say no step. No, no step, is the... Drive a car that uses gas like a normal person, so you don't have to pull over to the side of the road and plug it in like a fucking, you know, a, a-

That's the Prius

... curling iron. It's a fucking nightmare. It's a nightmare.

It's like a curling iron. But that... Okay. Um, I don't know what I'm gonna spend this money on yet. We'll see. Watch this space.

You have to blow it, you know that.

Of course. Of course.

Okay.

I mean, I actually... It paid for my meal last night at Muse, Santa Monica, just next door to Giorgio Baldi, right on the sea.

Why didn't you go to Giorgio Baldi?

Uh, Giorgio Baldi did not offer me a table, and did not... Their, their PR company did not encourage me to come visit in with the chef at Giorgio Baldi.

So you're saying you, you came to go visit at a restaurant no one's ever heard of, and you still paid for it?

No, a lot of people have heard of it. It's a very, uh, tough-to-get-table, expensive, fancy restaurant.

How do you spell it?

M-U-S-E, like the band.

Oh wow, interesting choice.

[laughs]

I would've gone M-E-W-S, personally, but I guess-

You would've done M-E-W-S for a coastal cuisine fine dining restaurant? That's smart.

I guess neither of them feel coastal cuisine fine dining restaurant, but that's maybe the point. It's supposed to confuse you before you get there. But it was good?

Ooh, ooh, confused about it. Yeah, to me it was, um... It, there's a lot of similarities to the food of Le Vaudou, but not, not the room and not the service and everything, completely different. But food-wise it was similar, where it's like Frenchy meets a li- a little Italian. A lot of sauces and classic things going on, but with a new modern twist. I liked the food. It was good. Had some cra- the, the pastry program may be the best in the city right now. Wild shit.

What from the pastry program jumped out at you?

One of everything. It was all, it's all like French stuff that I couldn't really-

Mm, sure

... figure out. But I mean, for, for one example, the, the brioche that they bring out at the beginning of the meal, it was like somewhere between a bread and a croissant with a little, uh, French Bordier butter and, and sea salt. And the butter is, is warmed up and whipped, but it's sitting on a, a little cold stone, so it's like-

Oh, that's nice

... so it doesn't melt.

So it's not runny.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It's not runny, it's just warm.

Exactly. It, it stays-

Oh, that's very nice

... it stays soft and room temp, but it doesn't get all runny and melty. But yeah, and then you open up and it's like this, this piece of bread that also has, like, flakiness like a croissant.

Oh.

And it just like crunches into these shards, and then you, you don't need to pour butter on it because it's already a fucking croissant, basically. But-

[laughs] I'm sure there's enough, there's enough butter going on already

... you do, and then you're like, "Sweet God almighty."

[laughs]

It was good. But I, y- I, I would never order a chocolate tart, for example, as a dessert at a restaurant.

That's a pretty classic dessert.

It is, but I, I, I never, ever want, like, a chocolate dessert really. I usually go fruity or milky or something like that. Uh, but it was probably my favorite bite. And then they, they serve it with a gelato that is made with all the leftover brioche at the end of service.

Oh, hell no. Oh, hell no.

They break all that brioche down, mix it into the vanilla gelato, do a couple scoops of that on top of the chocolate tart with like-

Nah, nah

... a, a layer of-

Stop

... caramel and-

Stop

... fucking-

F- stop. What-

Mamma Mia.

I forgot they had... We went to, uh, Cafe Chelsea last night before seeing some modern dance. Uh, and um... Which was actually good. I feel really weird about it. We can, we can talk about it. But-

Okay

... they ha- I forget that they have the Ferrero Rocher ice cream at Cafe Chelsea, which obviously I didn't get, but it-

[laughs]

... that's, that's a very special ice cream, and it, and it took everything in my power not to order it.

I think I've had it before at, like, some type of European gelato stand.

Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. It's fucking good.

Gilding the lily. I'm, I'm into it, though. As long as it's the correct ratio of-

Delicious

... Rocher.

Delicious.

Rocher to vanilla. Yeah, I, uh, I had my, my Gelson's Supermarket activation party last week. Shout out to our friends that came, and, uh, and Flash Food. It was, it was cool being in a supermarket where normally people go and, like, watch the football game or the Dodgers or Lakers, whatever, and seeing all these people who go to a supermarket to do that get turned away at the door because it's a private party, like we're in a nightclub kinda thing.

S- 'cause you're saying... 'Cause Gelson's has these wine bars, correct? So you're not talking... They, they could still go hit the frozen food aisle if they needed some-

Yes

... essentials.

The en- yeah, the entire supermarket is available to them except for the beer and wine bar.

Okay. So the beer... O- oh, it's not? Okay. You know, smart for Gelson's not to have full alcohol. I feel like that could get ugly.

Exactly.

I think it's, I think let's keep it, let's keep it l-

[laughs]

... lo- low alcohol if we can. Okay.

It could attract a certain crowd.

So was there a doorman for the bar at Gelson's or was it just a PR chick with, like, a clipboard?

I would say leaning more on the PR chick with the clipboard.

Okay, good. I think a security guard would be too imposing at the grocery store.

Yeah.

That's a little too far.

But people really take their supermarket drinking seriously. I did not know that, but man, oh, man. And then the, the, the other Gelson's in Silver Lake, apparently they have a Monday through Friday standing Jeopardy watch-

[laughs]

... reservation. I think friend of the show Rory Phillips might have an involvement with it somehow. But apparently this group of people, they show up 7:00 PM on the dot Monday through Friday, whatever's going on. I was... The G- the GM of Gelson's was telling me this. Like, Laker game's on, Dodger game's on-... you know, presidential debate, grab the remote, er, Jeopardy!. He said, "Unless it's, like, a World Series or, like, the Super Bowl, we're watching Jeopardy!" And every single person has their designated stool that they sit at the bar. The bartender knows everyone's order because you can't really talk because everyone is silently watching Jeopardy!.

Oh, I didn't even think about that.

Yeah. And I was like, "So what is the system for... You know, do people just watch it and enjoy it, or is there, like, a s- does somebody raise their hand if they have the answer, or, like, w- how do they compete?"

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he's like, "Oh, no, they just, everyone just yells it. It's just people yelling the answer the whole time." [laughs]

[laughs] I, for some reason-

Which is cool

... be- be- because of, uh, y- the way you explained it, it made it feel like these people took it really seriously, and I guess yelling out the answer is the way to take it seriously, but it does feel a little disorganized, I would say.

But, I mean, there's no other way to do it. I mean, we're not gonna get a buzzer system going at the supermarket and then, like, pause the game.

I mean, hey, if we got a wine bar going at the supermarket, I, I mean, I feel like a buzzer system is not that crazy-

I guess so

... to, to, so far off. What did you-

Yeeng wrong

... what was the offering, what was the offering at this-

Uh, yeah, so

... event? Like, what, what were you giving people to get them to hang out in a grocery store?

Okay, great question, Chris. First, in, in addition to the miniature Gelson's tote bags and bottles of wine, floral displays, and, you know, things like that, fun, fun little moments, I went to the Gelson's, like the week before, I went over to, to The RealReal, dropped off a fat load, and then came over to Gelson's.

Oh, which location? Which location was it? The one on Santa Monica?

No, it's, it's Franklin Beachwood.

Oh, the Beachwood.

Beachwood.

Okay, that's what I thought. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

'Cause they have the biggest bar. They have a outdoor patio that connects to the bar that overlooks the parking lot and the, you know, the other parking lot. [laughs]

[laughs] Talk about Prius.

But it is, but it is, like, a, a, a very booming, hot parking lot.

Oh, it's popping. No, that, that fucking Gelson's is popping. That's one of the busiest grocery stores I've ever been into.

And it's across the street from The Oaks Gourmet and La Poubelle and every- you know? So even though it was a weeknight at 6:00 PM, you know, it shit looked like the club. Rich, hot people jaywalking everywhere and doing things like that. But I went over the week before to just get my Thomas Keller at the farmers market on. You know, just smoke a little something and walk around with my hands behind my back, you know, studying-

[laughs] Why?

... what was available. [laughs]

Jason, I ran into you at Gelson's on a Tuesday and you were wearing chef's whites. Could you explain yourself please? [laughs]

Wearing chef's whites, smelling an Asian pear.

[laughs]

But, like, the, the, the party, we, we did the party with a company called Flash Food, and they, they offer these, like, CSA-style boxes with produce just from supermarkets, so they're like, "We have a surplus of," you know, whatever it is, oranges and Asian pears and white asparagus and Japanese sweet potatoes, whatever, and you get a fat-ass box of it for nine bucks. But so they wanted me to, they were encouraging me to offer some winter produce, you know, citrus and things like that. I made contramar tostadas out of their poke bar tuna kinda thing. I made some little mini Ivory Glass-style hippie sandwiches.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, we did some classic gluten-free Chex Mix. We did some, you know, the Raincoast crisp crackers.

Mm-hmm.

The expensive ones.

Uh-huh.

Smear a little Meredith Dairy on top of there.

Do those, are those offered in versions that don't have any... Don't they have fruit in them?

You can get 'em, you can get 'em regular and you can get 'em gnarly.

Okay, okay.

Yeah, sometimes they can get a little too fruity, huh?

I, I just, I just, it's hard for me to, to kind of combine a cracker and a fruit.

I don't need a whole cranberry in my mouth while I'm crunching down.

[laughs] I love cranberries, actually, weirdly. I love cranberries, but-

Oh, okay

... only raw. I only want Ocean Spray to the dome, handful-style, like peanuts.

Chris, I want a little spray to the dome.

[laughs]

Copy that. Um-

Just one second. [laughs]

But Meri- Meredith Dairy, it's like a goat cheese that comes in a glass jar, so, uh, it's submerged in olive oil. Uh, it's really, it's expensive, a little bit. It's like a, it's a chefy, gourmet kinda treat, but if you ever see it, I think it's Australian goat's milk. But a little bit of that. On top of that, a little slice of Asian pear and a little fried sage on top. Uh, and then we did some little sushi rolls as well, some blue crab California rolls, and then some winter veg, uh, sushi rolls, like kabocha squash.

Mm.

You know, bits and bobs, things like that, asparagus, whatever.

Seen a lot of squash lately.

It's squash time right now.

That sounds like a, that sounds like a decent spread. Anybody get too drunk?

Probably just me.

Okay. [laughs]

And, and then also, you know, vegetable crudités and, you know, little dips and chips and things like that. It was, it was dope, but it was cool, you know, just being in a patio at a supermarket at night, just drinking wine out of a Gelson's wine glass.

[laughs] So they've got their, like, Love is Blind-style custom glasses. Are they just, is it just logo, regular wine glass, or is it frosted?

Yeah.

Okay, okay, okay.

No, it's kinda frosted all.

Okay. All right, nice. Okay, if I'm saying-

If a couple of those wine glasses went missing with some slippery-

[laughs]

... slippery fingers-

Yeah, you would know

... I do apologize, Mr. Gelson.

Why did Jason bring a L.L.Bean double XL tote to his activation? I guess he needed a new, he needed 12 new Gelson's wine glasses for the house.

I brought a lot, yeah, I brought a lot of, uh, those boxes that have 12 little holes in it-

[laughs]

... and a bunch of tissue paper. I don't know why he needed that.

[laughs] And I love that you-

I know. I brought over the Christmas ornament carrying case-

Yeah, walking into the Gelson's

... and just start putting wine glasses in there.

Walking into a Gelson's planning to shoplift with just tissue paper to protect [laughs] all the glass that you're gonna take.

I only steal very fragile things.

I was able to get some pickles as well, since I had the, since I had the paper on me. It was easy just to kinda wrap everything up and keep it moving.

But yeah, Gelson's, I know you're listening. You should sell those Gelson's wine glasses. That, that would be a Christmas holiday item.

I can't believe they don't. That seems crazy.

That would really move off the shelves. We'll keep stealing them until you sell them. That's just the way things go over here.

That's surprising to me they don't sell them. It feels like a very easy, you know, very easy opportunity. But may- I'll- maybe I li- I also like the resistance, you know?

This is why, this is why Gelson's activates, though.

We don't need Gelson's to make hats and tote bags, you know what I mean? It's like, for sale. It's, it's, uh, it's, we're past the point of that, I think.

Less hats, more tote bag, just 'cause, you know, supermarket, but let's-

Oh, you use it. I guess that's true

... let's move on from food, though. Let's move on from food. I don't wanna alienate our, uh-Ozympic listeners or our non-gourmands, I would-- What do you wanna talk about? We've got, we've got plenty to talk about, don't we?

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do it?

Three times a week, and I, I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother.

Yeah. R- Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, uh, Stateside.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week, and, and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say.

[laughs]

Give it, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, "You're fine," you know, "Drink more water."

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly.

That's about it.

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[laughs]

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This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good, and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers. Well... And no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris, and sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself and that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over six million people globally are using it, and you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh. You know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, "Damn, I really am him." You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is betterH-E-L-P.com/howlong.

I watched some Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction clips this morning.

[laughs]

After I watched the worst episode of... I... Saturday Night Live's somber Nikki Glaser, one of the... That, Nikki Glaser's monologue might have been the worst I've ever seen. I, I, and I've, I've watched all of them. It might be the worst I've ever seen. Am I crazy, or was that actually the worst you've ever seen?

It w- it was, and it wasn't because sh- of her being bad, I guess. I think it was just simply because-

Then what possibly could the reason be? [laughs]

She wa- Because she, if, she's a, a s- a very successful, talented stand-up comedian, very good... You know, people, whenever they're doing the celebrity roasts, she often-

Yeah, she's good at roasting

... she's often, like-

She's very good at roasting

... the number one person. But I think that her subject matter leans a little too dark and a little too edge lordy and a little too, um, I don't know, Tony Hinchcliffy kinda vibe for the SNL somber crowd. You know, room full of people who are teenage girls, and they're not gonna wanna hear-

But isn't that her job t- Isn't her job to know that and then act accordingly-

Yeah

... so it's successful?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. I mean, I, I, I got a couple chuckles here and there, but-

Making a spray tan joke and then saying your leg has a Mexican name-

[laughs]

... is, like, pretty... [laughs] That, I don't think that's edgy. That's just bad. That's just bad. I just didn't-

She flipped. She went from self-deprecating to, which you sort of... It was the only card you can really play in somebody like her situation, uh, an attractive millionaire blonde white woman. You know, you can't, you can't start with the self-deprecation and then move into just regular old racism. And then-

I used to li- I used to... I, I've seen her be really funny before, and I thought, usually... But the other thing is they give these comedians too long.

Mm-hmm.

They give them too much r- too much rope for the monologue. It's like we don't need 10 minutes. Give her Miles Teller time.

[laughs]

Let's get three minutes. Let's get three minutes. It's less time to fuck up. Like, this ain't the Comedy Store. It's all good.

Well, but Chappelle usually delivers, though. He's only missed one or twi- once or twice.

I mean, I don't... I, I could never hear about Dave Chappelle again as long as I live, but yeah. I mean, giving him 20 minutes to smoke a cigarette is fine, I guess. He's earned it.

But he'll, he'll have a, a, a overarching thing that he's trying to do, and he'll... go back and through and a- around and tie it all up in the end with an inspirational moment, and drop the mic, and everyone's like, "Damn, he killed it, fam." And then Nikki Glaser was more of like, "Epstein pedophile, child trafficking pedophile."

I forgot about the chi- forgot about the-

[laughs]

... child trafficking part. [laughs]

And it just, it gets things off to, uh, an un- an unusual start.

Yeah, sure. That, that sets a tone. [laughs] Yeah, that sets a tone. Yeah, sure. That sets a tone. Actually, I read a d- I read a long story in The New York Times magazine yesterday about trafficking, so I'm kinda up on it if you, if you, um-

Oh, really?

You know, if I... I'm not gonna work it into my material, but it does, it is a problem in the Los Angeles area. Specifically, it's a, one stretch of, of, of road, which was funny to learn. But anyway.

What road is that?

Uh, it's, um-

And I would love to know what's funny about that

... is it Figueroa? I can't remember. It, it, it's like South Central, but it's, like, quite a long stretch. It's like a 50-block radius is how they were describing it.

Okay.

Whi- which seems like a very long way, but I guess, I guess maybe it's not. 50 blocks? That seems pretty far.

It does seem pretty far, yeah. But I mean, you know, Figueroa, you can go from, from 1st Street, and if you keep driving south-

All the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah

... to Long Beach, you're, you, you get into the 200s, you know?

Yeah, that's true. I guess you're right. I guess you're right.

It go up.

I didn't... Uh, but the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame clips, I saw, I saw Feist and Olivia Rodrigo doing a White Stripes song, and it was good. Like, Feist has clearly played a lot of acoustic guitar in her life, and had-

Mm

... like, a cool one that had clearly been on the road for 20 years. And Olivia-

Mm-hmm

... Olivia Rodriguez looked like she had hit Guitar Center an hour before the end, the ceremony. [laughs]

Straight off the wall.

And it ki- well, but it looked, it looked like, I think Feist also has one that's, like, slightly smaller than the normal size, so it looks more appropriate on her frame.

Mm-hmm.

And Olivia Rodrigo had the same one that, you know, fucking Jelly Roll's using, so it kinda ate her up a little bit.

[laughs]

They sounded good, though. But the, but the... And then T- Tyler, the Creator did Bombs Over Baghdad, and I, I, it was very, very good. I was very impressed.

He did a good job. He did a good job.

He did a very good job. I was super impressed. And I mean, I, I think that he is such a great performer who makes music I don't wanna listen to, so this was a nice chance-

Mm-hmm

... for him to shine over... That might be my-

One, one, once Tyler starts doing covers, suddenly he's pretty good

... that might be my favorite OutKast song, I, I, I realized when he was, when he was doing it. But-

Did he do, did he do both parts, Big Boi and André ?

I only saw, like, a minute and a half of J- and it seemed like he did all of it-

Mm-hmm

... [laughs] at the begi- I missed Janelle Monáe's, uh, and Doja Cat, I believe, who were also involved. But I, I wanted to... I, I just think it's so cool that André 3000 was there and was just, like, sitting there watching it, not, had, had no interest in actually performing, which is powerful.

I didn't even know... This was a Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, you said?

Yeah, it's like the inductions. I mean, I think this year they did a better job of, of like, maybe out-promoting it is the wrong word, but, like, the talent-wise, like, it feels relatively current and interesting, and the clips are online, so people watch it.

Right, right. It w- it wasn't like White Snake and-

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say

... Toto.

Yeah, OutKast, uh, OutKast and, like, Soundgarden are a little more contemporary, I think, than it can be sometimes.

It wasn't Gene Simmons and the J. Giles Band-

Yeah, yeah, exa-

... ladies and gentlemen

... exactly. [laughs] One more time. But the, uh, uh, once again, enemy of the show, Brandi Carlile, uh, was carted out to do a Soundgarden Black Hole Sun.

Mm-hmm.

Which is just, like... I, I don't even know, man. I don't care about Soundgarden. Like, I don't think they're cool or not cool. It's just something that existed at such a... It was so popular when we were younger. Like, I know the words to every one of those singles without ever pushing play on it myself.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

You know what I mean? And I just can't... We can't have Brandi Carlile doing that. I don't know who the right person is, but it ain't her.

To do Black Hole Sun? Cameron Winter, bro.

That's what I'm saying. [laughs] Dude, if I have to... [laughs] Dude, there's this-

[laughs]

I've been seeing these tweets about this guy who's got, like, a cool grandad, or maybe it's a girl who has a cool grandad, and he's texting her about, he texts her about Snow Cap saying, "Waxahachie, Waxahachie and MJ Linderman rebranded. It's pretty good."

[laughs]

And then he posted, [laughs] and then he posted a picture of himself watching the Geese Zane Lowe interview on his couch, but he's, like, a 65-year-old man.

This is a little, Chris Black, this is your future.

Yeah, uh, it's a little... I don't, I, I, you couldn't get me to watch a Zane Lowe interview in full on the TV. But otherwise, yes, I think, I think there is-

I, I saw some clips of that, of that Geese interview, and it was really funny seeing Geese on, in, in high definition 4K, you know, the Apple Camera's system or whatever, and just seeing these guys-

Dude, I, I-

... just

... kinda fucked with it.

It was really funny. 'Cause normally when you see, normally in that lighting and that situation with those filterings and color processings, you, you just expect to see, like, Karol G or, you know, Halsey, just these people who are, like, done up and larger than life in full glam all the time. And just to see these f- you know, four kids who just woke up just sitting there with sunglasses on and a sh- you know, shitty clothes, smelling bad, it felt AI-generated almost. But I, I did not watch it.

I kind of... Like, what they were saying almost didn't matter. Like, the presence alone-

Mm-hmm

... was so s- but what you're describing is so strong that I think-

Yeah

... it was, it was just an iconic moment.

It was captivating.

Yeah, it was an i... [laughs] Like, the one guy wearing the bug-eye sunglasses that are, like, take up half of his face.

Wearing the, wearing the Dandy Warhols.

Yes, he was wearing the Dandy Warhols. But I was like, you know what? This is, I just can't believe, I, you know, I can't believe the, the talk around this. But it's like a, it's a once in a lifetime insane moment for a band that sounds like this to get this popular.

Yeah.

And it's, I think, it can only exist... It, like, I, why do you think it's so, like, meme-able? Like, I, I don't know what it is exactly. 'Cause there's a lot of bands like them that are good and successful in, in a lot of ways.

That's a good, that's a good question. I th- I think this is, like, I don't know, it's like, it's like the first comingOf, like, Arcade Fire meets maybe when Radiohead, like, Kid A and Arcade Fire. Like, that kind of vibe where if you're a certain age, there really is a paradigm shift, not to use that phrase, but-

No, you're right. You're right

... this is the first time people of a certain age are experiencing music that sounds like this, and it's being served to them by the algorithm, not because your friend's cooler, older sister-

Yeah

... took you to the record store and said, "Here's this band called Royal Trucks," or whatever it is. It's more so just, like, I open my phone, and then now there's this guy screaming insane shit over, like, a atonal jazz record. And now everything I knew about... You know, I was listening to Chappell Roan and Rose featuring Bruno Mars yesterday, and now-

Yeah

... I'm listening to this, and it sounds like-

Revelatory

... I'm in another world. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It is, and I... That, you're absolutely right about that, and that's part of the reason I like it so much. But it, I, I guess it's also just one of those things that's very, very popular but also very, very polarizing, and I think people hear it and they're like, "I hate th-" like, immediately hate it.

Mm-hmm.

It's a love or hate thing within 30 seconds, which is a powerful... I, I think that's powerful as far as, uh, getting the dialogue going online.

Yeah. I mean, because even though we'll see these amazing videos of, of them performing, and it's, like, in a church, and it's just, uh, this amazing, you know, I'm listening to it, and it's like a, "I'm being born again," r- uh, existential moment.

Yeah.

And then other songs is just, like, a guy screaming some sh- you know, like, Death Grips kind of stuff. So if you... You gotta catch it at the right time.

Depending on what you like. You have to, yeah, you absolutely have to catch it at, at the right time.

Yeah.

I guess we didn't talk about, I guess we didn't talk about the Grammy nominations, but I, um, I'm of course disappointed to see so much Kendrick Lamar in there, but it has to be expected.

Also, didn't... I feel like that record was on last, the last... I mean, I don't know. I, I just feel like that song and that record has been-

Yeah, I don't, I think it's-

... in our zeitgeist for so long, it feels like we're past that cycle by now, but who knows.

This is how it always, this is how it always works. It's like, I think it's a September to September, I think, is like the, is the window.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah. I didn't really s- nothing... I was a little, I was, um... I, I didn't see anything super exciting or unexpected. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, I think, I think it was sort of like, "Yeah, this is-"

Yeah, I guess the record came out a year ago, November 2024.

It's like the perfect, yeah, it's like the perfect-

Mm-hmm

... amount of time. But yeah, I'm a l- I guess I was expecting to see something a little more exciting. Just, you know, like a, a left field surprise.

Why?

'Cause sometimes there's a left field surprise in one of the categories, you know what I mean? If you, like, get in there, sometimes you're like, "Oh, that's interesting that so-and-so got nominated."

Well, I, the only... Like, out of the albums of the year, there's somebody named Leon Thomas, and the record's called Mutt, and I'm assuming he's just a giant country music star that I've never heard of.

No. No, no. Y- no. Leon Thomas is an R&B singer. It's huge.

Okay.

I, I only know about this, I only know about Leon Thomas from listening to Joe Budden. That's not an exaggeration. I've never seen it anywhere. I've never heard it anywhere. I've just heard them talk about it. But Mutt is giving [laughs] it's giving country music. You're not out of the, you're not crazy for thinking that after reading the title.

Okay. I pu- I pulled up the, uh, I pulled up Mutt by Leon Thomas, produced by D Phelps and Freaky Rob. [laughs]

I like that. Freaky Rob, that's cool.

The chorus is, "Take your time. What's the rush, baby? I'm a dog. I'm a mutt."

That's good stuff.

Okay.

That's kinda, that, [laughs] that's kinda, that's kinda flames. [laughs]

He said, "I can't smoke on Reggie, so pardon my bluntness."

Ooh. Ooh. [laughs] Okay. Get 'em.

Yeah. I guess this is a little kinda coworker, middle school music, I'm assuming, just by looking at it. Never gonna listen to it.

I actually... No, I don't think it is. I think it's, like, sort of... I mean, I'm sure it is that 'cause it's so popular, but I also think it's sorta, like, old head, like real R&B, you know what I mean? Like, 'cause it, it's-

Mm.

I, I think-

Okay. He is 32. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. It's not... That's what, that's what's interesting about it, is that it, like-

So this is gonna have a neo-soul flavor to it perhaps.

I think it could. Yes. I think it could. I, I just think that it's, like, I appreciate when something like that gets nominated for a Grammy 'cause it's actually doing real shit, and it's-

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

... and it's, it's, like, we don't even know about it-

Okay. Never mind

... because it's not for us, you know what I mean?

Leon, you're cool. I w- I shouldn't have judged your song based only on the lyrical content, and I'm sure you're, you know, making that Strat sing.

[laughs] Yeah.

I think he already has Grammys as well.

Yeah, for sure.

Happy for him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I was, I was looking at that. I mean, you know, the, the Grammys are, are truly, truly don't matter at all anymore it seems like.

Well, but no award. This... People always say this-

We got, we got K-pop demon hunters and-

People always say this, but what award does matter then? Like, I, that's what I don't understand. When people say that, I'm like, "All right. Well then does... I guess none of it matters," which is fine. It doesn't... I think it matters if you win as a personal victory. I don't, I don't know what... I guess what I'm saying is when it mattered, what did that mean? Like, when you say something doesn't matter, when, when it mattered, I don't know if it felt any different, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess you're right. I mean, I guess the Grammys have always been the enemy, and it's always been a little controlled by the powers that be, and not necessarily... You know, I guess with movies you feel like the Academy, you know, it's being judged on by your peers and not just Jimmy Ivine saying, like, "This year we're gonna do Dijon, okay?" So it feels... Like, if, if there was, like... If, if, if Will Welch did a little Pitchfork Awards, and they did not just indie, but just all music. But the, the thing is ev- it was mixed in with every- it wasn't just only Sabrina Carpenter, Bad Bunny, you know, Lady Gaga, all that stuff. It was, like, truly anyone and everything. You know, it's Oneohtrix Point Never going up against Cat's Eye for best, you know, soundtrackcut of the year, whatever it is, you know what I mean? It's not just somber one

But those things are-- These are voted on by people that make the music. [laughs] That's the... It's not like... It is, quote-unquote, "the powers that be."

So the Grammys does that too as well.

Yeah, yeah. The Grammys is voted on by, like, people who are eligible because they're in the business, and they're-- which means, you know, obviously a lot of things.

I, I guess I did know that and I forgot. But it, you get the feeling that that's just like a formality thing that they do for fun, and it's not real- You know, there isn't like a governing board who's really ma- You know, they're, they're deciding who's gonna win stuff and who's gonna be nominated.

I don't, actually, I don't, I don't believe that actually. I, I think that there's a-enough bad people in the music business that vote for the stuff that's bad.

Okay, well, then maybe we need to not [laughs] we need to not have it be voted on by a, a group of your peers, and it has to be voted on by people who have deem- been deemed essential gatekeepers and smarter, knowledgeable people-

Well, then you-

... about whatever it is.

The, the Pitchfork put out like a, a list of the best 100 rap albums or whatever, and it was voted on by, like, the readers, and it was laughably bad compared to what it would be. [laughs] Like, you can't win. That's the thing. It's like you won't-

I guess you can't win.

You, you can't win. But I think it's-- I also just think that this award show thing is o-obviously it's all meaningless, but like can't something just be fun and feel good to be recognized? Like, I don't know why people act like it's some, like, you have to like stand up against it like it's bad. Do, do you understand what I... Like it's not-- I, I don't, I don't think like-

So like why Drake keeps boycotting it every year.

Yeah, like if you're, if you're taking it that seriously, you care more than the people who win.

Mm.

To me.

Mm. Period.

Like that feels like a doth protest too much kind of situation to me.

[laughs]

I don't, I don't know. I'm just like, "Dude, who cares? Put on a tuxedo and go win your award. Who gives a fuck?" Like I don't know why it's that big of a deal.

Yeah. Rosalia, put on your weird robe and get out there and get your Grammys.

I love watching people pretend they like that shit. Oh man, that's been a, that's been a highlight of my week.

It's, it's 10 out of 10 everywhere, bro.

10 out of 10 for people who are lying to seem smart. That is not-- That shit is unli-unlistenable. Un-- I mean, actually, no, it's not unlistenable. It's very listenable. I don't ever wanna listen to it, if that makes sense.

Who said, "Where are the songs at?"

There, there ain't no songs. I just don't understand w-who this is for necessarily, besides like showing how-

He puts them on with the guitar

... I, is it a-- Do you think it's like a I'm trying to show how musical I am and how my range is so incredible and the songs don't matter? Or do you think this is something that I just don't understand?

She said, "Take your time, what's the rush?" I said, "Baby, I'm a dog, I'm a mutt" She said, "Take your time, what's the rush?" I said, "Baby, I'm a dog, I'm a mutt I'm a dog, I'm a mutt

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I think it's both. I think it's literally 50% right down the middle bothI think that there is a, there are a lot of people who are like, "I'm supposed to like this music because it's gonna make me the person that I would like to be in the world." And then there's, and then there's just your hardheadedness and close-mindedness of, of not letting the music take over your body, and that's okay. I feel, I feel that same way about many, many artists, and you do as well. You're just not gonna do it. It's just never gonna cross the line.

Like, I, I, I don't, I, I... No, I'm just, I don't understand if her audience is liking this because they like it or because they've dedicated so much to liking her that they feel like they have to. Do you know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

When some- when an artist puts out a challenging album, I feel like the diehards are forced to-

Yeah, yeah

... I mean, this happened, this, I, I, you know, this happens with a lot of people. This happened with-

Fetch the bolt cutters.

Yeah, yeah. Like, this happened with... I mean, that's how people were talking about Tame Impala and Lorde too. It was a similar thing.

Mm-hmm.

Like, some people loved it, some people hated it, and it was like a, it was like... But with that level of fandom, and I'm sure Rosalía has this, there's also... 'Cause I've seen people, like, like, talk about it. They, like, struggle 'cause they really, really want to like it, and they really wanna find a way, so they usually can if the desire is there. If, if-

Mm-hmm

... like, I really wanna like this, so I'm gonna try and try and try until I do. Which I respect as a fan, but I will, this will not be gracing my Sonos anytime soon.

Do you think people are doing that with, with Geese?

Uh, yeah, for sure. Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, I think Geese is also, like... I mean, I would say depending on your palate, Geese is just as hard to digest as this Rosalía.

Yeah, I would agree so.

You know?

Yeah, definitely.

I don't think that's... I, I think Rosalía, I think that the... Rosalía, musically it's like the talent is pretty clear and amazing, and she's captivating and, and the artwork is... Everything's good about it, it's just not music that, uh... I, I just don't know when you put this on.

It's just every- I think it, it boils down to everyone has a different idea of what beautiful is to them, and that's-

Yeah. Yeah, yeah

... that's just what it is.

I think it can be beautiful, uh, and also unlistenable. Which might sound crazy, but, like, I think that's... I think there's a lot of... I just don't know if, um... I think you set your audience up to think you're one thing and then you go another direction, which you have every right to do, but I don't know if you can expect them to follow you into the fire if it's this challenging.

And I guess the last time this happened, and you had the same situation, was, like, uh, Frank Ocean.

Yeah.

Which I think is almost 10 years old. Isn't that crazy? But that's, that's another album where it's, it's either, like, this is, this is God's prophecy being shot down into my Honda Civic-

[laughs]

... or somebody like you where it's like there's no songs here, this is a collection of, of-

He's got some ideas. There's some ideas in here. There's some voice notes you sent your producer.

[laughs]

I mean, I always said it about Frank Ocean, when Frank Ocean made songs, that, those... He had some fucking slaps. The one with the car on the front, that shit has songs.

Channel Orange, where... That's where, that's, that's... It's good that we do a podcast together because I'm the exact opposite. I thought that was really dumb and stupid, and then I liked, I understood him more when it was, when it was Blonde because it wasn't him trying to make songs, it was him trying to make art.

What he... Well-

Not to sound gay

... what he considers art. I mean, that, the video-

[laughs]

... the video of-

And everyone else in the world.

I just think people want t- to like stuff. And I do too.

[laughs]

Like, I do too. Like, I, I'm, I'm the same way. Like, if somebody I love puts something out that feels challenging to me, I am definitely going to put in more effort to try to understand it. That's not... You know what I mean? That's what we all do, I think.

People want to like Timothée Chalamet on the cover of Vogue floating in space-

I mean-

... with some embroidered denim

... some of the worst pictures I've ever seen. And I, and I, I'm an Annie Leibovitz apologist normally, um, but I've... The, the discourse online is it's time to take her camera away [laughs] which is, which is really funny. But I heard from a source, uh, that that cover image was not in space when it was made.

[laughs]

That was not c- that was not communicated. I, I'm saying they didn't take a spaceship-

Okay, so you're... They didn't, they didn't take the Mars rover up... Y- you mean that it was shot on a, on a white backdrop or whatever, and everyone just said, "This is gonna be a cool portrait," and then after the fact, they're like, "Maybe we will drop him in space, and he's gonna be standing on top of Jupiter instead of a psych ward."

Yes, yes. I think that decision was made, uh, after the fact, and maybe some people involved in the making of that image were not alerted to that fact.

[laughs]

And that is-

It's so funny of all the people too, they're like, "Annie Leibovitz, we love your, um, your pics or whatever. You've been killing it. We are gonna think... We... How do you feel about this? We're gonna Photoshop him into floating in space." [laughs]

No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, Jason. No, no, no. I think it was her idea.

Oh.

That's the fucked-

Okay

... that's the fucked up part. [laughs] That's why we gotta take her camera away. And, and not that-

Gotta take that Leica away

... I don't think she knows how to use v- whatever program is required to do that kind of work.

Sure, sure, sure.

But there's a staff. You know, there's a staff that, that can take care of that.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, that's-

Damn

... those, a, a rare... I mean, Timmy can sort of do no wrong, and I think this is another illustration of that because I think he came out unscathed pretty much, and they blame-

Yeah

... they're blaming, you know, they're, they're instead blaming her.

They're blaming, they're blaming the new editor of Vogue.

Yeah, which is also, I don't think this is... No, it's, this is, I think this, they're saying it's Anna's last issue. So I think that there's-

Ugh

... and Annie Leibovitz is, it's, it's s- tough to watch. I mean, it's like the Patti Smith memoir. It's, like, her fifth memoir. Patti Smith has absolutely ruined her legacy.

[laughs]

And Annie Leibovitz is doing the same thing.

Mm-hmm.

Like, it's like you, when you look at that Annie Leibovitz book that came out a couple years ago, there's so much fucking heat in it, it's crazy. Like, there's, it was so good for so long. Like, like a run, multi decades of beautiful pictures, and it's just like, man, some things happen-

Yeah

... and they don't work no more.

We, we, Guns N' Roses made Appetite, Lies, Lies, Lies, Spaghetti Incident?, Use Your Illusion I and IIBut Duff McKagan keeps, keeps cranking out shitty solo records.

It's-

He doesn't know when to hang up the top hat

... it's the same. It's the sa- But it's, it's a, it's a... It's tragic. It really is. But I think that the, um... I, I, I don't think the Ping Pong movie's gonna be affected.

No, no, no.

So-

I don't think so either

... it's a, it's, it's a d- [laughs] It's a W for Big Tim.

No, no. Everyone says it's a great film. Can't wait to see it.

I'm sure it is.

Um, well I guess speaking of, of things that people automatically want to dislike, not like, like our, our Geeses and our Rosalias, did you, did you like I Love LA featuring Rachel Sennott?

I, I did really like it. Yeah. I, I finally-- I watched it, um, we watched it on Friday night. I really liked it. I think it's the exact, um... I, I like the subject matter. Like, I like how current it is and how, like-

Mm

... it feels... The, the, the thing that felt the least real was, uh, Jordan Firstman wearing a Circle Jerk shirt.

[laughs]

That just, that, that didn't-

Mm-hmm

... that wasn't believable to me. Everything else, very believable.

But he would wear that in real life too, not knowing what it was and just seeing, like, "Oh wait, I do that sometimes."

That's, that's, that's true. You're-

And not knowing it's a band.

[laughs] Oh, I thought... Oh, I thought it was a celebration of the act. You're saying it's a punk band?

[laughs] A celebration of the act. [laughs]

I di-I did like it though. I'm excited. I, I like that it's-

I'm sure Keith Morris was stoked when his kid sent it to him or whatever

... I like that it's coming out weekly too.

The way a good HBO show should. And hopefully it, it stays very of the now the way, you know, Entourage seemed to do, where whatever hap- what's happening in real life is happening, you know, a month or two behind on HBO. But I al- I also liked it obviously, you know, me being an influencer who lives on the East Side of Los Angeles, it, it is a show that's sort of meant for me to watch even though I'm double the a- uh, the target age demographic.

I just think that I, I don't understand the, the discussion about that online too is, like, psycho. Like, I don't understand just the way they talk about Rachel is obviously we're biased, we're friends with her, but it's insane. Like, people are just-

Mm

... pretty much just like, "What has she ever done that's good?" And it's like I think all of her work is actually kinda critically acclaimed historically.

Mm-hmm.

You know? It's like you might not have liked it, but it's not like she ... I just don't... I think that every show like this will forever be compared to Girls, which-

Of course

... for whatever... I, I, and Girls is a great show, but I think for whatever reason right now it's also considered the bar of any show that could ever exist that's even remotely close to this world.

Mm-hmm.

And I just think times have changed, and that's not necessarily that fair of a comparison after one episode.

I just, uh, what I like about it is that it's a show where a bunch of people were like, "What if we made a funny show that was entertaining to watch every, uh, every Sunday night?" Like how HBO has been doing for decades.

Yeah. There's-

Instead of like what is the message? Is there gonna be a happy ending at the end?

Yeah, yeah.

And is everything okay? And is there a, a, a classic arc like we're gonna see on Abbott Elementary where something bad happens and then something at the end is good and we play a sappy mu- you know? Like, what if it was just funny to watch and it's not like a, a th- a thought starting essay.

The sleeper star is Leighton Meester as, like, the boss.

Yeah, I mean, she, she knows that character. She is that character.

She's [laughs] so good. So good. Love to see her, love to see her back.

Yeah, hopefully she's in it more, but yeah, well done, Rachel. Um, I found myself chuckling and giggling the whole time. It's c- I mean, how, who else has snuck in a Tenants of the Tree's roofie joke onto-

That's powerful

... onto prestige television.

Speaking of being for you, yeah, that's, that's powerful.

[laughs]

That, that's, that's, that really is powerful.

Yeah, Chris, I too have been roofied there.

No, no, no.

Thank you for-

I don't, I j- I just mean you've spent a lot of time there.

Yeah. Don't, don't, that almost makes it worse. It's [laughs]... No, I'm just saying, man, you just spent a, you just spent a lot of time there.

I'm just, I'm just saying you, like, kicked it there quite a lot.

Yeah, you just kicked it, like, kinda at the end of the bar and just kinda...

[laughs] You just kinda sat on a stool for, like, hours and hours. I don't know what's-

You always had this, like, dropper in your pocket.

[laughs]

I don't know what it wa- We... It was f- I dunno. Um, let's see. I was... Oh, well yeah, I was reading Chris' Pulling Weeds, the rise of, uh, monitoring film statistics and data versus just enjoying. First of all, well done. I thought it was well-written. You're improving as a writer every month. But a, a quote stuck out to me, "Let's just enjoy stuff while we still can," and I wanted you to expand on that anymore. Are you foreshadowing-

No, no, no. I just think that-

... a, a dark demise in our near future?

I think the more stuff we get, a larger percentage of it is bad, you know? Just histor- you know, if you're gonna, if we're gonna-

[laughs]

... if we're gonna get 100% of shit, uh, you know, 89% of it's gonna be bad, and we're only gonna keep getting more e- even if it's-

Yeah

... the humans doing it or the robots doing it, you know? It doesn't-

[laughs]

... it doesn't make a difference. So I just, I d- I don- I just think that the... I, because it's also, that's sort, that was sort of a, a, a... Like, I do that in my own ways. Like, we, I think we all do it in our own ways because we have access to the data, and it's tough to ignore it because it's fed to us, you know? But like-

Mm-hmm

... with music I've made a point to never look at Spotify numbers because I'm just like, "I don't care."

Well, I think it's mainly because you don't have Spotify because you think it looks ugly, but I think if you did have it-

No, I do have Spot- I pay for Spotify every month. I have it. If I wanted to look at it, I could. I have Spotify and Apple.

Yeah, but you're, you're vocally against it, and you are always, uh, an Apple m- what... If Apple Music had the stats for each song on it, would you choose to have that hidden, or would you let it rock?

I mean, is there an option to hide that on Spotify?

I don't think so. But you know, just-

That's a good idea

... hypothet- uh, it's not a-

Yeah, no, no. I'm just, that's why I asked

... go invisible mode. Well, I, I, I was thinking that it, a, a, a part of that is now that we're in sort of like a, a classic or trash society or, you know, a, an F marry, kill, there's no real ability to have, like-Any nuance or, or subtlety in between and talk about it, so because it's more work, and I think most people just want to kind of... You know, they, they don't have enough attention span to really talk about the music or the art or, or whatever, and it's so much easier to just move that into the pile of good or bad based on-

Totally. Totally

... based on the box office scores. Like, I'm only-

Yeah, yeah

... gonna go see it if a bunch of other people saw it. So then, you know, what does that mean?

I think it's also these industries are what people fantasize about being part of, and it's like a, it feels... You know what I mean? It's like, it's, it's like these, these are the, the... It feels so far away 'cause it's, like, celebrity driven.

Mm-hmm.

So it, it doesn't... I don't know. I think it's, like, easy. Like, this is what people do with the stock market, but there's no... To me, that's, that's literally numbers. You know what I mean? Where this is not that. This is stuff that's supposed to make you feel something, and is not num- You know what I mean? And it's, like, not actually numbers ba- Like, I, I've been re- looking at the Billboard charts since I was buying, like, Rolling Stone in middle school, and it had it in the back.

Yeah.

You know? Like, I, I look at it. Like, of course. I read all the stuff. I care. But it's also just, like-

You, you like the stats. You're interested in seeing it, but you don't use it as your sole-

Yeah, imagine if you used that as the barometer. I'm gonna be listening... Yeah, I'm gonna be listening to K-pop demon hunters. If that's, if that's the road you wanna go down, it can get dark, but I think that there's-

Shout out to Matt Belloni.

But that's the thing. It's not Matt. It's like the, that's their job. They're informing an industry. But I think what it's happened is the data has gotten so... It, it's, it's, it's penetrated every part of our lives, where, like, 14-year-old... Like I said in the story, like, 14-year-olds are, like, posting screenshots of Ticketmaster sales for the... It's, it's crazy.

[laughs]

It's like imagine being that age and that's what you're concerned with, not, "Can I go to the show? Can I get a ticket? Will my mom let me go?" You know? It's like that's, that's what's crazy to me.

Yeah. Uh, I g- I guess, I think a- as, as we all have crippling anxiety and attention deficit disorders, it has sort of become more fun to organize things into piles rather than discuss the, discuss them. You know what I mean? Our animal lizard brain wants to just categorize things and, and move things around and put square pegs in square boxes in- instead of being like, "Hey, what'd you think about this movie?"

Well, I wish I didn't... I mean, yeah, I, I wish there was stuff I didn't know [laughs] you know? Like, I wish, I wish there was stuff-

And even, even, even when you ask somebody what they think about a movie, they approach it as a value proposition the way I would a restaurant, where it's like, "It was good, but it wasn't $300 a head good." You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, if it was worth the money that they spent on it, that's how they talk about films now. Instead, you know, back when a matinee was $7, it was okay if the movie was okay.

Well, it was also okay-

And now you're like, "Damn"

... it was, it was also okay because there wasn't, you didn't have access to 100,000 options at your fingertips that you're already paying for.

Yeah.

You know? And I think that's the-

They've... Like a, like, like, film reviews read as, like, warnings to other peop- other consumers now versus a discussion of art. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like, "Did you like your trip to Tokyo?" "Well, here's how much I spent. It was sort of worth it. Not really."

You're right. You're right. I, I, I just don't... I don't know, man. I think it's only gonna get, get worse, and I think that it's, um...

It, it w- it made me wonder, I guess, all this record industry Grammy talk. Do you think it would be cool or interesting or bad or good if record labels made their budgets public the way movie studios... Like, you know, we know that Spider-Man costs $400 million and it has to do X, Y, Z in China just to break even, and another X, Y, Z if we want it to be profitable for the Q4.

Yeah.

Ellison blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If we knew, like, okay, Rosalia's gotta m- you know, do this many streams week one or else hiring the fucking Duolingo choir and the full-on orchestra, it's gonna be a loss leader. It's gonna be, you know, it was bad for the portfolio. Would you like that?

No. I, that's what... I would like none of that.

[laughs]

I would like less of that. Yeah, I mean, and I, I, but I do think it's, it, it does, like-

Is that gonna be in our near future whether we like it or not?

I don't know why it's different between, like, Hollywood and music business, but I feel like-

They, they make it seem like the Hollywood industry is crumbling, and less so than the f- the music industry.

I think it might be worse than the music industry at this point. I think the music industry, whether people like it or not, has been saved by streaming because it benefits the labels more than it does the artist.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So it's like they're, they're, they're better off than they were maybe eight years ago.

But I think they're both trying to m- they're, they're trying to make both film and music to be, quote-unquote, "saved by AI technology," you know?

Yeah, no, and I'm, I mean, I'm sure there's... Look, if you listen to Joe Rogan, it's the only music he listens to now is a 50 Cent AI cover-

[laughs]

... that sounds like, you know, big brass band. So I mean, look, anything-

The only people it's saving are the people who own, own it.

Yeah, I just don't-

It's not saving anyone else.

Yeah, yeah. I just think that, yeah, I, I, I think that the, the-

Curious to see what Joe Rogan has planned for this.

Yeah, me too. Me too. I, I, yeah, I, [laughs] I think he's gonna figure it out. He's got a lot, he's got a lot of stuff to figure out, so this is probably at the top of the docket I would, I would assume.

Um, Grammy-wise, Tur- Turnstile being nominated a couple times, is that the first hardcore band Grammy nomination? Or was there, like, a Hatebreed or something at some point-

I feel like maybe-

... in the metal category?

I feel like maybe during, like, the Ozzfest era there was some weird hardcore band that probably got-

Dillinger Escape Plan or something.

Yeah, but Turnstile, I mean, I, they got nominated kind of a lot too. I think it's, like, three or four times.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it'd be cool if they, it'd be cool if they won a Grammy. I mean, I think it's, like, I, I... Watching that whole thing and the backlash is, is so funny to me because it's like I, I just don't understand being an adult man and being mad that something you liked first is successful now when it hasn't really... Like, it, I, like, I didn't listen to Turnstile from day one or whatever, but the last two or three Turnstile records are, are, you can see where it's going.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

Like, it's not like a, it's not like they started off sounding like fucking Warzone and now they sound like Jane's Addiction. Like, they sound like-

Yeah, yeah

... Jane's Addiction for five or six years. It's not crazy.

They're a hardcore band that has a few... Ableton sounds going on

Yeah, I just don't understand. I, I, I've seen just a lot of blowback o- on online being like the... You know, and it's like, dude, like, they, they put out... It feels like to me they're a band that put out what they wanted to, and the world happened to get in line with it, and there's nothing you can really do about that, you know, negatively or positively.

Yeah, and, and if you want, if you want your era of old man hardcore to be succeeding, go out there and, and buy the tickets. So I mean, like, the biggest hardcore band other than, you know, classically of all time you could say M- Gorilla Biscuits maybe, they're getting 10K guarantees to play shows.

Yeah, yeah.

So-

You can't-

Why... A- and, uh, Turnstile's getting whatever, 200K.

Yeah, Turnstile, I mean, yeah, Turnstile is very popular, and it's just-

Go vote with your dollars

... I would rather see, I, I mean, I would rather Turnstile be popular than a lot of things. I mean, I... Did you see this, um-

True

... z- did, did you see that New York Times is trying to do their own version of NPR Tiny Desk?

No. [laughs] Why not?

Oh, yeah, and you, you know they launched with, with fucking snoozer Jay Brecky.

Oh.

And it i- it's just, it looks pretty good, like, from a, you know, from, like, a purely aesthetic standpoint. But I, I was just like, this feels kind of crazy how obvious it is what you're trying to... You know what I mean? Like, Adam Friedland's doing it now too. Adam Friedland's doing, like, in studio, like he had, he had, um-

Mm, mm, mm

... what's his name on, um, that came on the podcast, and it was so funny-

Cas McCombs.

Cas McCombs, yeah. Cas McCombs on. Like, I guess if you, uh, in Adam's situation, you have, like, a studio, and you like music, like, why not? New York Times, obviously you have an office, you have access. Why not? But it just feels like, New York Times specifically feels extremely crazy-

[laughs]

... to do that.

Yeah, but this is, this is what we have to do in order to make money in media, right? We have to make short form video clips that can be-

Of course. No, of course, and I, I get that.

You know, that's what it is.

But I think you're doing that with Popcast and fucking Yung Lean. You know what I mean? Like, that's good, interesting stuff to wa- like, I don't think we need K- there's KEXP that has already been doing it for fucking years. There's NPR that's been doing it for years. You know, there's BBC, you know, where they do The Cover. Like, I just don't know how many more we can do, but because it's The New York Times, of course they can get anyone to do it.

Yeah, it, it's been going on forever. Every radio station has done it, but it's just been audio. So now that it's easy to post video-

Yeah, but there's certain ones, but what I'm saying is there's certain ones that have broken through, you know? Not just, like-

Sure

... ACL, but, like, KEXP, like, I can tell you what that studio looks like because I've watched so many of those because it's like if Tiny Desk were good, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Like, it's j- 'cause it's not, there's no, like, twee element of, like, you know, employees in masks clapping to music they don't like.

Yeah, it's, it really reminds me of when, you know, like the rise of the bedroom producer or the bedroom, you know, director. All I need is my laptop-

Yeah, yeah

... and I can make the next Gram... You know, Skrillex on a laptop, he's getting a Grammy, and all these people are directing music videos with just, "I got my camera for Christmas from my mommy for, and I'm 18, and I'm doing it all." That has now moved from creating the art to now being, like, a media person. Like, I can, I can just create my next On the Radar or the next Boiler Room or whatever, and that's just another form of what you do in the creator economy, you know?

Oh, yeah. I'm f-

It's not like I'm, I wanna be... Some people are like, "I wanna be a host of Subway Takes," and some people are like, "I wanna create something where bands will wanna want me to make music videos for them."

I, I would love more bands playing the better in my opinion. I guess I just mean you can't do the exact, like, f- there's gotta be another way. Like, y- y- like, like I haven't watched the Cas McCombs, but I'm sure his take is, like, a little-

He, I'm sure he made it look cool and interesting and unique and t- to his style.

Yeah, where New York Times, it, it's literally at a fucking desk. Literally at a desk.

Oh, that pulled us up.

I'm like, all right, well, you can't... Come on, guys. Like, let's, we can do a little more than that.

Live from the 10th floor.

The clip I saw, she was sitting at a desk.

Okay, yeah.

I mean, she's insufferable.

I see it.

So I, I, you know.

Everyone has to do it, and-

Everyone has to do it. I mean, at least it doesn't have all the... I, the Tiny Desk set with all the little tchotchkes and it being so cute kills me. At least this looks professional.

Yeah, they really are just playing at a desk in a cubicle-

It's, it's cr-

... at The New York Times

... it's crazy. It's the same thing. And I'm literally, like, New York Times music content, what I'm saying is, like, like that, what I referenced, the Popcast thing with Yung Lean, like, I've seen that everywhere this week 'cause it's good. You know? Like, you didn't need-

Yeah

... there's no shtick. It's just, like, a good interview with a guy who's interesting who doesn't do a lot of interviews. That's what I want from The New York Times.

Mm, cream rise to the top. I agree, bro.

Anyway, all right, How Long Gone, um-

What we want doesn't matter.

[sighs] God, you're telling me. We will see you on Thursday live on YouTube. Uh, we will be, uh, interviewing all of the guests at the GQ Man of the Year awards at the Chateau Marmont. Um-

Mm-hmm

... and there'll be more info on that soon.

I got my tux getting pulled out today, Chris.

Nice. I actually went and got a tux yesterday at Sid Mashburn. Um, I don't think I'm gonna wear it-

Ooh

... for this, but I needed it for Matt's wedding, and I'm, it was-

Just for life

... a nice experience. I hadn't done that in a long time.

Oh, um, well, I guess I'm gonna see you in New York at a wedding this weekend.

Yeah, well, but I'm gonna see you before that in LA, so...

That's a good, very good point, bro.

[laughs]

Super good point. I didn't say we needed to rank when it's gonna happen.

Yeah, no, you're right. I, we didn't need to go in any order.

Just in general.

I agree.

And, uh, good luck Brian Johnson, the guy who's trying to live forever with, by drinking his s- son's blood. He's experimenting with, uh, mushrooms. He's taking five grams today, so good luck. Don't die, brother.

Wow. Is that a lot?

Yeah, it's al- it's almost double, uh, a, a lar-

What you should

... uh, uh, it's considered a god's dose.

Okay, sure.

And, and maybe he has experience with it, but if it's your first time doing it, five grams is gonna-

It could, it could be hitting you pretty hard.

Mm-hmm.

God bless. I always pr- I always pray for him at, every night anyway, so-

[laughs]

... that's fine. I'll, I'll continue to do that.

He could use a little bit of that spray tan from that SNL monologue, am I right?

[laughs] Yeah. Yeah, he could. Yeah, dude, he, he needs to, yeah. [laughs] Dude, he looks Alabaster.

[laughs]

All right, howlonggone.com is the website. Thank you guys for listening, uh, and we'll talk to you next week.

In my eyes, in this pose. In disguises no one knows. Hides the face, lies the snake. You're the sun in my disgrace. Boiling heat-

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