895. - Larry Fitzmaurice

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian, and they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world, and they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. [upbeat music] How Long Gone. Uh, it is Chris Black back in the, uh, freezing cold Big Apple. I'm joined by my, uh, co-host and friend Jason Stewart.

It's me. What's up, guys?

I think we're both in a, in a very, um, vulnerable state after dealing with the Brooklyn Beckham news yesterday.

[laughs]

That's ... I mean, I'm torn. Obviously I side with the Beckham family.

I'm torn.

I was just looking at Brooklyn's famous photography book and some of his, um, captions for the photos-

Okay, okay

... and it remind, it re- it reminded me how, um, how much of an idiot he is.

Okay, when you say, when you say you obviously side with the Beckham family, you're not including Brooklyn Beckham in this family?

He, yeah, he's been ... Yeah, he's been ... He's, he's a pelt.

You mean you side with his parents. You side with-

I side with his parents

... with Becks and Posh.

Even though everything that he's saying about them I believe to be true-

Eh

... I still, I'm still [laughs] able to side with them, um, because-

Same

... because of what he's ... 'Cause he, he's come for both of ... You know, he's kinda come for both of our hobbies. You know, he was a chef at one point.

Yeah.

He was a photographer at one point, and he was, uh, successful at neither.

Well, don't he, don't forget he's a hot sauce baron. I think they sent me like a press release if I wanted to, like, write about his new whatever, truffle hot sauce or something like that.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, it's, it's one of those things where li- like you said, you believe everything he's said about them, but you still side with them. Like, both sides have to be monsters, but you gotta side with the parents on this one.

[laughs]

But the problem is the reason why you're siding with the parents is because the parents have destroyed this child's mind and turned him into-

That's true

... I mean, they're, they're lucky he's not going Rob Reiner mode on them.

The, I mean, the, honestly. I mean, he's ... Her grinding on him at his own wedding, uh-

[laughs]

... is one of the greatest stories that's ever been told I, I would say in celebrity culture since my, um, since, since my life started.

Since your wedding?

Uh-

Is that what you're saying? [laughs]

Yeah, [laughs] exactly. But I think that the, the most interesting part is that his, his wife, her family is, is more rich than the Beckhams.

I did not know that. I thought they were gypsies.

So he's not-

No shade to our gypsy listeners

... he's not really ... What I'm saying is he's not sacrificing a lifestyle by, like, standing up for himself.

Right.

He, you know, hi- his, his life ain't gonna change.

And it's, and she's not a gold digger because she has more gold.

Exactly. So it's kind of-

And copper on the move

... it's, it's kind of the perfect situation for him in many ways. He gets to live his truth. He gets to shade his parents in every, uh, i- in a very public forum.

[laughs]

And he still has a full staff at multiple homes and flies private. So it's really a, a no-loss situation for Brooks.

Yeah, it's just a, it's a win, win, win even though he's probably gonna die in the next 48, uh, months.

[laughs]

Super ... I mean, he's got it all. He's got it all.

No, he's gonna be fine. He's gonna be fine, but it's been, it's been tough news.

I ob- I don't want him to die. I don't want him to die, but I, mean, it's a bummer situation because ... But I, I guess the one, I, I guess the one thing that I'm sort of into is we need to have a return to parents disapproving of who their child marries, especially if you a- you a- you have an empire and a lineage and-

Mm-hmm

... you know, you, you're trying to create a legacy for years to come. Uh, Posh and, and Beckham, I like the idea that they're saying, like, "You know what? Nah, I don't approve of this."

Yeah.

"Sorry."

I agree.

Because you're, because you're ... My future daughter-in-law is a hoe.

Also Victoria pulling the dress that she had designed for her just days before the wedding.

That, that rumor was dispelled because they, she had been working with Valentino for a, a year on her dress.

I still-

See? Who do we believe now, huh?

You're right. I mean, I'm, I'm ... I, I, I think that this is gonna go down in history 'cause, you know, it's, it's ... The Beckhams are obviously a difficult family, but the, the, the self, uh, financed documentaries they both made about themselves-

[laughs]

... have made them beloved and sort of I think larger in the American ... to, to an American audience because I don't think we really ... We know them as, like, famous people and obviously, like, David Beckham as a soccer player, et cetera.

Mm-hmm.

But I think those documentaries were so popular in America because it was, there was stuff-

Yeah

... we didn't know.

And also he was thriving in the football game sorta before it was really taking off in America. You know, that was like, that was a good, a good amount-

Yeah, totally

... of years ago.

Totally.

To when everyone in America still said soccer is gay.

Well, some of us are still kinda holding the line, but I-

Well, most of us still say, like, even though it is the gayest sport, it's so awesome to watch when you really get into it, you know?

It, it ... I will say this. So-

[laughs]

The best thing about soccer is the athleticism 'cause you're running for an hour and a half and it's deeply impressive, and I do see some trick shots on my, um, Instagram stories that are quite impressive.

Let's go. Get a little bike kick, okay? In the Premier League.

I love, I love, I love when somebody has a-

There's nothing gay about the Premier League.

I love when somebody has a nice touch, you know, as far as-

Mm

... uh, their foot to the ball.

Pause.

Just wanna be clear.

I like it when teams are named like the Nottingham Forest and they have, like, a 80,000 person arena.

I do want a team to support 'cause I want a scarf, so if anybody wants to weigh in on which team feels the most like me.

Don't, don't do that. Don't. You'll never walk alone if you open those gates up, brother.

Leaving your personal, per- personal, you know, your kinda personal feelings aside. Um, all right, so we're back from Mexico. Brooklyn Beckham divorced his parents.

Naomi Osaka dressed like a jellyfish.

We gotta stop, bro. This shit is crazy.

[laughs]

Like, like we gotta stop, bro. Every, everything-

She looks like, um-The Young Thug album cover where he was wearing the, the dress-

Oh, yes. Classic

... sort of looking Mortal Kombat-y. This is like the, the, the first year fashion school-

Yeah, this is, this is-

... you know, I'm gonna try to do that kinda thing. Buddy, you look like a, a Korean golfer. Like, you l- it's like a, what a Korean-

[laughs]

... grandma wears to their daughter's wedding-

Dude, this-

... and they don't approve it

... this isn't, this is not Central Saint Martins graduating class. This is somewhere-

[laughs]

... somewhere far, far below. But I don't-

This is pleats. Please no. Please no thank you.

Please, please stop. [laughs]

[laughs]

Please take that off. I don't know.

Please put those pleats away.

I don't know what... I, I just think that these, all athletes have been forced to care about this stuff, and I don't think it comes naturally to them because the one thing that comes naturally to them is their career that they've dedicated every hour of their, their life to since they were a child. And-

That's right

... I think that maybe some of this needs to... I think, like, some of these guys, look, uh, some people pull it off, some people really care.

Look, Kai Cenat, his clothing line, it's, that is instantly iconic.

I mean-

I will give him that

... do you understand art or do you not? Uh, and I, I think that, uh, I... But this is, this is beyond.

Just say you don't get fashion, you know what I mean?

It's also, it's like you just... I don't know, man. I, I just, I can see some, you know, like a table full of Nike executives having to sit with her-

Mm-hmm

... and listen to her ideas, and then sort of be like, "Well, what if we try..." You know?

[laughs]

And like really trying to massage it, and then this is what we get-

Mm-hmm

... uh, is the, is the eventual reality.

You get a, you get a custom piece of clothing not made by the sponsor that gives you tens of millions of dollars, has no ability to sell it through to anyone whatsoever.

No, there's no, it, and it, it doesn't, it doesn't like-

It's Nike couture

... it doesn't uplift the brand either. I would say that s- you know, sometimes this, th- that that idea could work. In this case it does not.

[laughs]

Um, yeah, that, that's a big one. Look, I wanna talk about, just quickly for some of our listeners, this isn't gonna be in your wheelhouse, Jason, but Kyle and Amanda from Summer House, uh, have s- have, have filed for divorce.

Who's gonna get the summer house?

They don't own that house.

[laughs]

Uh, Bravo pays for that, and it's eight people. Um, so I- Kyle-

Okay, so Summer House is a show.

Summer House is a very popular show on the Bravo network. Kyle is sort of a, um, a, a, he's like a, he owns a hard seltzer brand. Um-

Mm-hmm

... and he's a DJ now as well.

Mm.

Amanda is low-key super hot, and was always too good for him, but he was sort of the ringleader and, like, party animal. Um, and I think that the, the bloom is off the rose. Uh, Alex told me she knew it was coming when she's noticing Amanda's 2016 photo post, no pictures of Kyle.

Oh.

And they had been together since, you know-

Oh.

Yeah. Bad. B-A-D.

Oh. That's-

[laughs]

So they had been together for 10, for 10 years.

They'd been together for quite a long time. They've been together forever. Married, you know, married for whatever, four or five years.

Do you know why this happened?

Probably because he's insufferable, um, is my guess. It's the kinda thing where she would go to bed at midnight, and he would come home at, like, 6:00 a.m. and be, like, dancing to loud ass music.

Mm.

And, like, trying to, like, cuddle. You know? Which after a certain amount of time... And al- also she has stake in the business. There's no prenup. It's gonna get nasty.

[laughs]

It's gonna get nasty.

Okay.

Um.

Well-

I'll stay tuned

... so you, when you, when you said Amanda is low-key bad, does that mean that, like, y- she doesn't know how hot she is? Or are you just using just regular Gen Z slang? Is there noth- or is there anything low- or high-key about her beauty?

And if Amanda is listening, I-

I'm assuming that she wears bathing suits on the show Summer House.

That's right. That, that's right. [laughs]

So it's not like she's dressed like a, a, a jellyfish at the Australian Open.

I believe what, I believe what-

You're able to see

... I believe what young people say is body is T. Um, and-

Okay

... but the, but the issue is, and this is an issue with, uh, historically with several-

Is the body T though, Chris?

... with several male and female cast members of all reality shows.

She gotta little cut a couple Raising Cane's sessions out every month, and I think we'll get that body down to the T.

She has a, she has a nose ring, and that's the major issue.

[laughs]

Um, so if, if that can be-

The nose ring is standing in the way of her and her future success?

Exactly. Exactly.

[laughs]

Exactly. But I, I'm, I'm praying for both of them. I hope the, I hope that it does, the divorce doesn't get too nasty. I hope they don't have any dogs they have to split or whatever.

Ooh.

Um, but luckily the Summer House is a rental, and it's not in either of their names, so that will continue to be there.

Okay, okay. Well, thank you for sharing that. I know this, like you said, is not something that's in my wheelhouse, but since you and, and Alex are so close to me, I mean, I'm just really just kind of honored that you did share that with me.

No, of course. It is, it's my pleasure.

Um, and just kind of like so I can hold space for you guys.

Please hold space for me. And I also, before we talk to our guest, I, I, right before we got on this call, I saw a, um, I saw, I saw that there was a heated rivalry themed party that sold out at Webster Hall.

[laughs]

Um, I'm not, I'm not clear on details yet, but I think our guest will... Our guest might know about that actually, so.

No, I mean, it was, it was interesting 'cause we, we were talking on the last episode, um, about the Wilco Festival that, um, we just got back from yesterday, about how, you know, the, the evolution and the future of live events and concerts, and it like, everyone is saying the system is broken and y- touring doesn't work anymore, and everyone just complaining. But this, you know, uh, this is the future of live events is-

Yeah

... what if we had a TV show themed party where simply the only requirement to sh- come is just you're fans of a TV show on Netflix.

Lowest common denominator. Um, Jesus Christ.

[laughs]

Also, also yesterday we heard some reporting that Threads, uh, from our friends over at, at, at the Meta group, has overtaken-

Mm-hmm

... Twitter in, in some-

Mm-hmm

... metric. I'm not clear exactly on which metric that was, but I believe it was user-based.

Yeah.

And I think that that means that Instagram inserting it on your feed has worked because I-I and several people I've talked to-

I'm still never gonna download the Threads app

... you don't have to

... solidarity, brother

... you can just click. That's the, the, that's the whole thing though. It's crazy that it worked just by-

Oh, really? I thought, 'cause every time I would see those sneaky links, not that kinda sneaky link, but where they try to squeeze that Threads link in there-

No

... in your mentions-

You click on it and take, no

... like, "Oh, here's a thing."

It takes you right to it. It's genius.

Oh, okay.

It's really sneaky.

Threads usage overtakes X only on mobile, not on desktop.

Well, I mean-

'Cause I guess people, a lot more people use Twitter on mobile than Instagram.

Using In-

I'm sorry, Twitter on desktop versus Instagram on desktop

... I would like Instagram to be more geared to desktop. I think that would be a smart... thing to lean, lean into

Well, because of, because of my bricked phone, I be using Instagram on desktop-

Yeah

... all the time.

But it's not, it's not-

It's, it's nice to re- when you have to reply to all the, all the messages.

Mm-hmm.

You, when you gotta sit down, it's nice to do it on the machine.

Yeah.

Just pull it up and-

I much prefer to, I much prefer-

Camera out

... to respond to death threats, uh, from the machine versus the, the kind of-

Yeah

... the app.

No, I've, I've been using Claude Code to reply to all of your DMs for the last two weeks probably. Let me know if you've noticed any difference or not.

[laughs] If you, if you notice any difference, please chime in.

Yeah. You, you finally replied to me for the first time. [laughs]

[laughs] I knew something was up when I got a reply at all.

When I, yeah, when I sent you a meme that you saw three weeks ago, you finally-

It's-

... replied saying, "Nice"

... no, that's the number one message style that exists is the-

[laughs]

... is the meme that I saw three weeks ago. Thanks, thank you for sharing. Um, all right. We have a guest today. Uh, Larry Fitzmaurice is a, uh, is a writer. He's been covering music and, and culture for years and years. He's got a great Substack that I pay, or excuse me, newsletter, it's not on Substack, God bless him, that I pay-

[laughs]

... I pay for because he's got such great taste in music.

So you're the one.

Uh, yeah, I'm the single guy that's keeping Larry afloat-

[laughs]

... over there.

Nice.

Just keeping the, keeping the fridge full. Um, all right. We will, uh, let's give, uh, let's give Larry a jingle and get into it. [jingle plays] This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's a, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

Three times a week, and I, I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, uh, Stateside.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's three times a week, and, and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say.

[laughs]

Give, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, "You're fine," you know, "Drink more water."

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly.

That's about it.

As if, as if I could drink more water, Doctor. I, I don't get data. I don't get a game plan. I just get a pat on the ass and get out there and, and make it better. But SuperPower's doing something different. SuperPower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak. It's a simple blood draw, one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Uh, their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, and even environmental toxins. Ooh, ooh. So from disease prevention-

[laughs]

... to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go, SuperPower is more comprehensive and advanced system out there.

Make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with SuperPower. For a limited time, How Long Gone listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to superpower.com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership. That is code HOWLONG, and after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about SuperPower. Do us a favor if you could and tell them How Long Gone sent you, and that'll just support us. Thanks. [jingle plays]

All right. What up, big bro?

Hey, how you guys doing?

Good. How are you?

I'm doing good. I'm doing good. How's your guys' day going? Where am I, where am I talking to you guys from?

Don't try to, don't try to interview us, bro. Come on.

[laughs]

[laughs]

First question. Where do, where do you join me from today, fellas?

I mean, old habits die hard, you know?

No, no, no. Okay. No, Chris and I, we can, we can, inside the podcaster studio, Chris and I were in, in Mexico for the Wilco, uh, music festival, Sky Blue Sky Fest. Another successful year down there in-

Oh, sick

... Cancun, but we just got back yesterday. He's in New York at home. I'm in, uh, LA at home.

Which part of Brooklyn, which part of Brooklyn are you in?

Got in last night, had a couple slices of cold-

Nice

... had a couple slices of cold prime pizza. Wake up at 6:00 AM and here we go. And, uh, what, what part of Brooklyn are you in, Larry?

I'm in Bushwick.

Oh, oh, I like that.

Bushwick.

You know what? I think Bushwick, Bushwick is cooler now because Ridgewood exists. Would you agree with me on that?

It's funny 'cause the, I, I think-

Do you get what I mean?

I think-

In comparison

... I think that's kinda true. I feel like there's, like, I do feel like there's, um... I moved here during the pandemic. Um, I lived in East Williamsburg for, like, not, like, 11, 11 years.

Hold on. Hold on. I thought East Williamsburg and Bushwick were the same thing.

[laughs]

[laughs]

I'm not kidding. I really thought, I thought, I thought-

Yeah, that's like saying, like, "I don't want a tuna sandwich. I want a tuna fish sandwich"

[laughs] I have to, I have to be specific about which area of Williamsburg I lived in. I lived right on, uh, the corner of Graham and Union, um, which maybe that's not East. I don't know.

Okay, so you're saying that could be traditional Williamsburg, but you, you, you, you were saying, you're putting a flag down and saying that's East.

I'm, uh, I'm saying for all intents and purposes, it's East.

Okay. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

We trust you on that.

All my city planners know what's up. Listening.

[laughs]

Hello. Let's go.

[laughs]

Mm-hmm. All my district makers.

Oh, God. [laughs]

See you in the chat.

I lived there, I lived there for, like, 11 years with my wife, and we lived, um, in, like, this, like, really, really rough, um, one bedroom pre-war place, like 1,300 a month. Had, like, you know, black mold, bad fixtures, the whole deal. And, um-

Real, real one-two punch there.

[laughs]

What's worse, the black mold or the fixtures?

Hated it.

[laughs]

I hate the fixtures.

[laughs]

Hate the mold.

[laughs]

Tear it down.

We didn't disc- we didn't discover the mold until we were moving out, which we were like, "How much of an effect has this had on our brains at this point?"

[laughs]

Um, you know, definitely, definitely felt a lot better maybe mentally after that, um-

As you're pouring orange juice over your coffee in the morning or something like that.

Yeah. [laughs] "This new place rocks. The light-"

"We wonder if mold bad."

[laughs]

No, it's the only thing I have in common with J.K. Rowling.

[laughs] Wait, the, what, the mold made you hate trans too?

[laughs]

[laughs]

No.

Is that what you're trying to say, Larry?

Not that far, not that far.

I didn't know you had that much money. That's cool, man. I, that's, that's really-

[laughs]

... it's brave of you to be a newsletter writer with that much money.

I try not to hide my privilege. Um-

[laughs]

[laughs]

But yeah, no, we, we moved to Bushwick when, when the-

Dude, that's, that's actually refreshing as hell. [laughs]

We moved to Bushwick when the rents kind of, uh, plummeted in, uh, 2021, and then, you know, of course everything skyrocketed again. But when I moved here, I felt like a lot of people I knew were actually leaving here, um, and being like, "I'm, you know, like, I'm a grown-up. I'm moving to, like, Fort Greene now," or like, I guess everyone lives in Flatbush now. And like, I don't know, I, I like, I like this area.

Bro, I... Look, Flatbush is a neighborhood that I only know from, like, M.O.P. songs.

Yeah.

I don't think I should, I don't think we should live there.

[laughs]

And we, I mean whites.

[laughs]

Like, I don't think that's for us, bro.

We can't, we can't just... We can't do... If it, if, if Nas has talked about it more than once-

[laughs]

... that ain't for us.

There was a, uh, the, uh-

It's giving gentrificado.

[laughs] Yeah.

I love that you said, "And when I say we, I mean white people."

[laughs] Yeah, I just wanna be clear.

I really thought you were gonna go a different way.

[laughs]

[laughs]

They're like, "Unless you're a music writer who's struggling, you are not welcome here, motherfucker."

[laughs]

But it, I mean, I will say it was smart of you, speaking of your privileged mindset, to buy the dip and move to Bushwick when it was low. That's, that's a fucking, that's a sigma mindset. Very smart.

It w- it was, it was worth it.

[laughs]

Um, you know, like, I, I, I, I liked, I like this area a lot.

I hope you got a return on your profit.

[laughs]

[laughs] I feel like, I feel like honestly I didn't, because they, um-

[laughs]

One of the things that happened was as soon as we moved here, after the kind of the, the post-pandemic rent honeymoon phase ended, they were like, "Okay, now your rent's, like, twice as much," like, almost immediately.

Right, right, right, right.

So I was like, "Okay." But you know, it is what it is.

Rent, rent, rent honeymoon sounds like something you had to write about over at The Fader in 2012.

[laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

Is this, is this something that Zoran can fix? [laughs]

I would never ask Zoran to fix my problems. Uh, I feel like that's too presump-

[laughs]

That's too presumptuous, um, honestly.

Okay, okay.

Good point. That's not, that, that's nice of you. You really recognize your place in the world.

So do you think it's fair that he gr- lives in a rent-controlled apartment, but you don't?

[laughs]

Because you're white? Is that what you're saying?

You know, um, actually the building I'm, the building I live in, and this is one of the great, um, what, this is one of the great scams of living in New York, the building I live in is, like, I think, like, four out of the six units are actually rent-stabilized. And-

Mm-hmm

... they managed to unstabilize my unit when we moved in by just-

[laughs]

... by just throwing in a dishwasher.

Good news, Larry, don't worry. We were able to unstabilize your rent, and we got it back up to $7,800 for your studio.

So do they put... All right, so the dishwasher they put in to fuck your whole world up, is it, is it at least nice?

Um-

I mean, is it a good dishwasher?

No, it's a piece of shit. Uh-

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, so it's not even a great Bosch-

So it's not a B- it's not a Bosch 3800 series?

The dishwasher we have is so bad that they actually sent a guy to fix our dishwasher, and-

How bad is it?

[laughs]

And he was like, he, he was like, "I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing here." And I was like, "All right." And he was like-

[laughs]

He was like, "You should just use half as much detergent." And I was like, "Is that really the only fix?"

[laughs]

And that, that truly does work. Like, and I, it actually did, like, you know. But at this point I'm just assuming that there's gonna be smoke rising from it at some point, and they're just gonna have to replace the whole thing.

[laughs]

The rest of my building doesn't have dishwashers, so there we're all like-

So, so you're, you're, you're brave enough to say that you could wash dishes by hand if your rent was halved-

[laughs]

... is what you're saying. You're b- you're brave enough to-

And it, and it sounds like your problem before is you were kinda, like, Home Alone style, you're putting all the detergent in the dishwasher, and then it was sudsing everywhere.

I know. [laughs]

And then the repair person was like... Yeah, repair person, that guy, was like, "I think you're putting too much soap in. That's why it's sudsing everywhere."

Yeah, classic m- classic millennial thing, where I'm just like, "I don't know how this works, so I'm just doing it as wrong as possible."

Mm-hmm. Mm.

I'm glad you lear- I'm glad you learned your lesson the hard way. I'm glad you learned this now. Well, I didn't know... I, I always wondered how they destabilized a rent without... I thought they just had to k- kick someone out or kill them.

No, they-

I didn't know it could just be-

They put a d- if they put a dishwasher in or they give it, like, you know, some sort of amenity that, like, elevates it above, like... Let's just say I took them to court. I would never do that, 'cause that would be a huge pain in the ass at this point. But, like, if I did, they would be like, "Oh," like, you know, "We put this dishwasher in. We put a new coat of paint."

Mm-hmm.

"We gave you, we gave you, like, you know, we left an air conditioner that was old in, in there for something." Like, "We gave you value here. This, this is above the rent stabilized."

They did the least amount of work to, to un... It, it, it's very similar to when you call an Uber Black, and it's, like, the, the little Lexus, like, micro SUV thingy or, like, a Lincoln-

Yeah

... cheapest car I can get and still drive Uber-

We're on record, we're on rec-

... UberX or Uber Black

... just, Larry, I just have, where we're on record as, as Suburban and Escalade are the only two cars that should be allowed as Uber Blacks.

I think that's, I think that's extremely legit. I think that's a really very reasonable position to take. Yeah.

Thought you would agree with that, Larry.

I'm gonna stop listening.

Do you, as a, as a Brooklyn resident, do you participate in car moving and parking culture, or do you guys not own a vehicle?

It runs my life, bro. It's, it's, uh, uh-

[laughs] I had a feeling you'd have thoughts on this.

Yeah. Honestly, it's crazy, because a lot of... The one thing that helped me, 'cause we, we got a car during the pandemic, 'cause we were like, you know, "We need to be able to, like, leave the next time there's another pandemic." [laughs]

Mm-hmm.

Um, honestly. Um, and the one thing that helped me kinda get in a rhythm with alternate side parking is I work on my newsletter while I'm doing alternate side parking.

Classic.

So it's like-

So you, so you've got the Lenovo laptop cracked in the front seat of the Subaru, and you're just cranking.

Absolutely. Yeah. No, I mean-

Car's a write-off now.

I, I, I've literally-

That's your office

... I've literally done interviews driving around looking for parking.

Good car, Monica.

[laughs] Get it.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

We're gonna talk about the new Chappell Roan.

I was there first.

[laughs]

Um, I've literally had to say to subjects, like, "I gotta park." Like, uh, like, "Just, just so you know, like, I'm off camera 'cause, like-"

Hey, man, if you're ever wondering-

Yeah, yeah

... if you should move to New York, this is it, guys. You can do therapy in your '89 Volvo and re- interview people.

La- Larry's talking to an emerging IDM artist while he parallel parks.

[laughs]

Most of you guys couldn't do that

You losers have to do it in your house. [laughs]

Jason, I know you're joking. I've done therapy in my car.

Yeah, no, that's a-

It's a whole thing

... that's a real one. That's one we've heard about a lot.

No, we know a lot of people. I mean, even-

Yeah

... even, uh, Naomi Fry, you know.

Yeah. No, it's a way.

Big, big people in this space are doing therapy in their cars.

I mean, I saw, um, I saw Ezra Marcus, who I know as a g- uh, yeah, friend of the pod.

Yes, friend of the show.

Um, as Ezra was saying online a few years ago, he was like, "I don't move my car at all. I just let the tickets collect."

[laughs]

And I, I was honestly like, that's a level of aura that like I didn't even expect-

[laughs]

... him to exude at that point. Like, it's, it's very Ezra, if you know, if you know Ezra well at all. But like-

Mm

... also I was like, "Yeah, goddamn," like I, I can't even get myself up to that point. Like, that's impressive.

Oh, he, and he only write, he only writes four stories a year.

Yeah. [laughs]

So that's really even, that's even-

Look, I mean-

I mean

... uh, he's, he's aura farmed a lot of phone calls from collection agencies, so don't, you know-

[laughs] Yeah

... don't envy his position too much.

The, the, the government is looking for him, so it's not-

[laughs] It's all fun and games until they put that boot on your car, man. Like, then, then, then you're screwed.

That's-

Exactly

... so have you been, have you been booted before-

In the boot, get some aura

... are you, are you a frequent?

No, I'm, I, I-

You're on top of it

... I keep on top of it. Occasionally I'll be like, I, I've had the occasional moment where like I've walked up to like, let's say like my area's like 9:00 to 10:30, all street side parking. So like I'll walk up to the car at like 10:26 and I'll see a cop walking next to my car. I'm like, "Don't you dare." Like, "That's my car." I'll sound the alarm or something. I'll be like, "I'm here."

[laughs]

'Cause they don't, they don't do shit if you're there. Like, you can sit in the car and they will come and they'll, they'll see you in your spot. I've had this happen multiple times. I'll be sitting in the car like wait- waiting it out, and I, I know that the, the, um, the street sweep- sweepers have already come through.

Mm.

And, uh, the cop will like look at me and then just like walk right past me and ticket a car right in front of me that has nobody in it.

Mm.

Like, that, that, that's the hack. You just have to be in the car. As long as you signal that you're willing to move, they don't give a shit. [laughs]

Mm-hmm.

But now my, my follow-up question is, for all of these headaches, how often are you using the car? 'Cause y- you don't, you're not going to C Town-

It's only for the zombie apocalypse?

You're not going to C Town for a grocery haul every Saturday.

I've got a 5:15 at Penny. Let's get in the Volvo.

Yeah, like what do you, are- yeah, what kind of car is it, first of all? It's, and it, it sounds, if you need a mechanic, that's not a great sign.

Yeah, no, I mean-

[laughs]

So it's a 2019 Ford Fiesta. I got it-

[laughs]

... with like maybe like 20,000 miles on it. Um, straight from the lot.

This is the perfect-

Low miles. Low miles

... this is honestly the best possible answer you could have given to what kind of car is it.

[laughs]

Perfect, perfect answer. Perfect answer.

It, it's a good car. It's small. It like, it's easy to park. I can s- I can fit it into a variety of spaces.

Mm-hmm.

[laughs] Yeah.

Um, I-

It doesn't not turn heads down Bedford, right?

[laughs]

I-

It turns, it turns heads in some ways

... it turn- it turns some heads. It turns some heads. Um-

[laughs]

It's not the flashiest car, but you know, it does the trick.

Sure. Mm-hmm.

Got the CarPlay. Um-

Mm. Mileage is off the charts

... I, I got, it's got CB player.

Vital.

Yeah. Yeah, it's good. Um, but the problem is actually, um, and I end up talking about this with a lot of people in the newsletter 'cause it's just like something I bring up all the time, but like there's ton- there's like, there's a real bad rat problem in my area specifically.

Uh-oh. [laughs]

So over the last couple years the rats have like basically lived in the engine of our car and-

[laughs]

... I think it was like a year and a half ago, like we're-

New York sounds so awesome, man.

Oh, it's sweet. No-

I don't know why people are leaving

... nothing like it. Best city in the world.

It's time for, Larry, it's time for you guys to move to Vermont. Give it up, bro.

Yeah.

Who cares? Fuck it.

Sorry. Sorry. I, I know m- I, I, I don't mean to badmouth. I'm not trying to go Gavin Newsom mode here.

[laughs]

[laughs] Too late.

Okay, so, so you got rat, you got rats living in your house. You got rats living in the engine block.

[laughs] They're not in my house. They, they, they're not in my house-

Okay

... but they're actually, um, they've actually-

Well, they're in the walls, Larry. They're in the walls.

They w- they are in the walls. We had a problem in our building.

[laughs]

We actually had a problem in our building where a bunch of rats-

I'm not saying they sit in your breakfast nook and have toast with you in the morning, but you know, they're around.

No, no, they're, no, it's, no, they're, they're, they're, they're in our building. They're definitely in the walls. We've had that issue too.

How many rats do you kill a year?

I don't, I don't do a goddamn thing about it. Um, I'm not touching those.

[laughs]

I have a, I have a 65-year-old neighbor who fashioned a, like a rat killing instrument-

[laughs]

Uh-huh

... and will occasionally message me and be like-

Get him on the watchlist

... "It's time to go." Like, "It's time to go," like, "It's time to go kill some rats in the backyard."

Time to go take out the trash. You with me or are you against me, brother?

Kill some rats.

It's like I am not, I am not doing this, bro. I'm not doing this at all.

Can you describe this, uh, this device, this weapon?

Yeah, please.

Yeah, it's like a, um, a broomstick with like some sort of like a sharp, uh, pointy like instrument attached to it, like maybe like a spade.

All right, so you're saying, you're saying-

Okay, a jailhouse spear is what he's made.

Yeah, you're saying-

Yeah

... Gramps created a, yeah, an old school style spear using a broom and maybe a used knife.

I was hoping for something a little more-

More or less. Yeah, no, this i-

[laughs]

It's very, it's very rudimentary. Uh, this guy's kind of, this guy's kind of a legend, honestly. He pushed, you know the video for Mariah Carey's, uh, Always Be My Baby where she's on the tire swing?

Of course.

Yes, of course.

Yeah, he pushed the tire swing.

Ugh.

Wow.

He's been eating off that fun fact for a few decades now, hasn't he?

What a fall, what a fall from grace. He, he went from-

[laughs]

... possibly touching Mariah Carey's butt to killing rats with a broomstick.

Do, do, do, do, do, do, dow. [laughs]

He's o- he's other things. He, he's done other things. He, he actually worked on, um, the lighting for the Wembley, uh, scene in Marty Supreme too. Uh, he's-

Oh, so okay, so he's keeping it current.

Yeah.

He's still, he's still-

Dude, his IMDb is bananas, bro.

He's still got it going on?

Yeah.

Okay.

And he's killing rats in our backyard. Um, but, uh, no, the, the-

What are we doing talking to you, by the way, Larry? What are we doing talking to you? [laughs]

[laughs] You gotta get my neighbor out here.

Go knock on his door if you could and kind of wrap this up.

Figure out, yeah.

[laughs]

Um, no, the, the actual, the worst thing that happened with the rats was they ate the, uh, timing belt in my engine.

[laughs]

And, um-

Well, that's bad too

... the belt got stuck in the engine.

I'm dead serious. I'm dead serious, bro. B- Boston's right here.

[laughs]

Like, it's clo- [laughs] it's super close.

I would ne- I would never go to Boston

Look, in their defense, you shouldn't have smeared peanut butter all over that timing belt-

[laughs]

... that you fucked up there, and you will take the L on that one.

I told you not to leave the jam in the engine like that.

[laughs]

Now, I... They like strawberry.

Damn, I'm sorry.

This was also [laughs]... Like, th- this shit happened, like, two days after my car got towed because there was a huge, um, huge, like, Dominican music festival-

[laughs]

... on my, on my block that they didn't put up signage for.

Damn. When you say they, do you mean Dominican people?

I mean, like, the, the cops.

[laughs]

Like, the cops put up signs for this stuff. They're supposed to, at least.

Papi, no.

Bro, bro, you're literally, you're literally-

[laughs]

... right now, people are listening to this being like, "You know what? Maybe New York isn't for me. Maybe I'll check out Tampa."

[laughs]

Hey, by all mean- by all means, whatever keeps them out. Like, honestly, like-

I agree. Yeah, I agree. I agree

I love the idea that, like, some, some, like, plantains and roasted pork somehow got on the timing belt-

[laughs]

... and the rats, you know? [laughs] The rats got in there.

Okay, so, so the co- Okay, this sounds like a full-time job for you. I, I don't know how you get any work done.

He likes it.

I... Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's one of the rhythms of my daily life, you know? Like, it, um-

[laughs] Kinda, kinda how picking up dog shit is one of the rhythms of my daily life.

Where are you... Larry, where... Larry, where are you from?

I'm from, uh, I, I grew up in New Jersey, actually.

Okay, so-

Born and raised in New Jersey

... you could also go there, is what I'm saying. I mean, that's close, too.

Yeah, I could. I, I don't know. I, I honestly feel like if you leave, if you leave New Jersey, like, for a specific period of time, which, like, I, I left to... I went to school at NYU.

Returning to Jersey would be a failure.

Well, well, returning to Jersey would be a decision. It's like you go and then you don't, you don't leave.

Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's like you leave and you leave for good. Like, I still have family in Jersey.

Just like Orange County, nice place to grow up, nice place to retire, everything in between.

Yeah.

Not so much.

And I got, I got friends who live in Jersey and I got family in Jersey. I go vi- I go visit all the time, you know?

Go, go see Ish, go see Ice.

It's not... Yeah, it's not for me.

The Freeze.

It's not for me. I, I ra- I'd rather be here.

You load up, you load up the, you load up the Fiesta with some, you know, some Russian daughters and take it out to the suburbs.

[laughs]

Show 'em what the big city's like.

[laughs]

That's nice of you. That's nice of you.

Get a Devil's game in. That's nice.

I'm, I'm, I'm-

Yeah, no, that's good

... I'm impressed, I'm impressed 'cause you have a great attitude, and I think you get a kick out of this in a way that I wish I could. Because when the n- sort of the nuances of New York life and everything being twice as hard as it should be all the time, um, does grate on me occasionally. But I need to take a note from your playbook, 'cause I feel like you really, you find the humor in it more so than the misery.

So is that, is that from SSRIs, edibles?

[laughs]

How are you managing this?

Yeah, what are you... How much, what's your Johnnie Walker intake?

Yeah, give me your stack.

There's, like, a moment in every, every week, like, living here where you're like, "I should just kill myself."

[laughs]

Like, I think that's, I think that's extremely real.

[laughs]

Where, like, you're just like, "I'm dealing with stuff in the city that, like, is driving me nuts," but then you're like, "Okay, the moment passed. I can get through this," you know? Like, I, I assume people in the suburbs have this too, or maybe they don't, and, like, that's-

Well, people kill themselves in the suburbs maybe more so than the big city.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Occasionally they kill themselves in the sub- I, I'll say this.

[laughs]

I, I think that the, the mentality... Well, yeah, I, I think that being here is really hard, and you're reminded of that.

Sure.

I think if you're smart, you reap the rewards of going to the world's best stuff, you know, all the time.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But if... But I know people that maybe don't do that, and then I'm like, what are you doing? Unless you were born here, there's absolutely no reason to live here and deal with this bullshit.

Mm. Don't go to the arcade if you don't wanna play video games, right, Chris?

Yeah. Like, if I-

No, that's real

... I, I'm, I'm literally thinking about... Yeah, I just feel like I take advantage of it much as I can. I'm sure you do as well.

Yeah, no, I mean, like, every time I'm like, you know, this is... I don't know, like, if, if I'm dealing with something like, you know, the rats destroying my engine or something, I'm like, "This sucks," and I'm bummed out, and I, I, I hate living here and I wanna die. And then I'll be like, "You know, I can go see a movie in, like, an hour," uh [laughs] and, or, like, you know, go to a museum or something. Like, it's fine.

Bro, I can go to the MoMA till 8:30 on Friday night.

Yeah.

So are you fucking crazy?

[laughs]

This city rocks.

Mm-hmm.

I don't give a fuck about rent.

You can get a, you can get a Xan on every corner.

[laughs]

Yeah, but what is your... Yeah, what is... So how are you dealing with this? How do you get your ya-yas out?

Tweeter.

Just, like, j- yeah, just, like, I don't know, chilling. Like, seeing movies. You know, like, day-to-day routines, you know? Like, keeping, trying to keep it stable.

It'd be cool if there was another city in America where you could chill and see movies.

[laughs]

[laughs]

So I think right now it's, it's on- it's only in Manhattan at the moment.

It's o- it's only New York you can do that, and nowhere else, unfortunately.

Other cities are apparently working on it, but they're, they're still some w- years out from what I understand.

Yeah. No, they-

So it's gonna be a while for you

... they've got some work to do. Um-

[laughs]

No, I mean, I, I don't know. Like, I, I leave occasionally. I leave New York occasionally. You know?

So you're not smoking hella weed just to sta- stay, like, on top of it.

I would s- I would say that, like, cannabis, like, functions as a, as a good way to keep your head straight.

[laughs]

You know? I would say that's, I would say that's accurate.

I like how you're talking to us like we're your doctor. [laughs]

Yeah, you sound like... Yeah, you sound like-

How much did you say you smoke every year, once a month? You know, cannabis is, like, really important for, like, my head space right now. [laughs]

[laughs]

Calling it cannabis.

Try- trying to keep things professional, you know? Trying to, trying to keep it straight.

Sure. Yeah, your boss could be listening right now.

Yeah, exactly. [laughs]

Yeah, your boss could. Your boss at ghost.io could be listening right now.

[laughs]

Okay. Well, let's, let's talk a little bit about something that, uh, is not just NYC parking, um-

Yeah, let's do it.

There's some stuff going on in the world of music and writing and, and music writing. There's, there's the Pitchfork announces-

This is big

... you can pay $5 a month and you too can give Dr. Dog 7.9-

[laughs]

... or whatever it may be.

[laughs] That'd be the highest score Dr. Dog ever got on Pitchfork, man. That's cra- that'd be crazy.

[laughs]

Um, yeah, I, I, I, I actually saw that this morning before we were doing this, and I was like, "Oh, I'm, I'm sure we'll be talking about this."

Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is-No one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris, and sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself and that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over six million people globally are using it and, you know, have some breakthroughs, go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh, you know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, "Damn, I really am him." You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is betterH-E-L-P.com/howlong.

What is Revolve Man, Jason? It's... Oh, funny you ask.

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Genuinely, yeah. It's one of those things. We're all busy. Let's say we got an important dinner coming up at the end of the week. It's Tuesday. You're working every single day. You don't have time to go shopping and try clothes on and blah, blah, blah, or even just browse. You know, Revolve, it's all there. It's all curated for what you want, and then you click buy, you go to bed. Couple days later, that shows up in packaging that's a little nicer than y- the other places you're buying clothes from, and you've got a nice look for the big night out. And then you're like, "Wait a minute. I don't even have to return this because I enjoy this clothing and I wanna wear it again another time," versus all those dumb other websites. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last-minute that actually works, Revolve Man always has it. Go to revolveman.com/howlong to shop, and use code HOWLONG for 15% off your order. Free two-day shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That is revolve.com/howlong, and use the promo code HOWLONG to get 15% off your entire order. Offer ends soon. Don't sleep on it. And you don't need clothes, too. You can get just, you know, a cool candle or an incense gift for a baby shower. Whatever it is, revolve.com/howlong.

I guess what I... I guess my thoughts are th- it's smart overall from a business perspective because I think the audience exists to pay for it, and that's good overall.

Sure.

Yeah.

But I think the, the kind of person who will pay-

Mm

... 60 US dollars a year to comment is a person that I don't personally need to associate with.

And it has a little Ronnie Dangerfield, "I don't wanna be a member of a club that would have me" kinda thing. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I mean, do you think the audience exists for paying for the access to music reviews? [laughs]

I honestly-

Like, I-

... I think enough, I think enough does to... If they get, if they feel like they get to, like, add their score to it-

Right

... then yes. I mean, I think that, like, Stereogum did it, but that's more... Like, Stereogum has always felt to me more of, like, a, quote-unquote, "community" for brether- better-

Absolutely

... or worse.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, that feels-

Yeah

... a little more bootstrap. Obviously Pitchfork has always been, like, the big bad guy even though-

Sure

... I think Pitchfork is cool and funny.

I'm, I'm gonna hold out until the, the advertisement tier is, is laun- so I can, I can-

Okay

... give Dr. Dog the 7.8, but I have to watch a Skyrizi commercial-

[laughs]

... for 90 seconds and then I'll be able to say the new [laughs]-

But I think it is c- I-

... the, the new JPEG Mafia is, is trash

... it's, yeah, I... Luckily we have this podcast so I can say all this stuff whenever I want, um, and it's, it's a little easier.

Sure.

But I think... I do think the audience exists. I think that it's an interesting... I, I think it's an interesting test on paywalls because of what the offering is. Usually the offering is you get to look at stuff.

Right.

And then you get to, like, have, like, a community Discord convo every third month or something like that, but I th- I think-

Yeah

... the... It makes sense because in, in a world where nobody wants to pay for anything and we use our friends at, at Rocket Money to zap those unwanted subscriptions.

[laughs]

But to have-

Mm-hmm

... the possibility of dating or mating-

Ah

... is a, is a, one of the only reasons or ways that people are willing to pay money. If I go on Pitchfork, I'm trying to pull me an emo baddie or a goth hot g- guy or whatever it may be.

Sure.

I'm gonna use my amazing musical taste and if, if you see somebody that looks amazing and, like, the hottest person of all time to you, you look at their s- their musical taste and they have the same exact thoughts on... You know, that's, that's worth $5 a month.

That's, that's a good point.

I think, like, people my age pay for subscriptions, like, f- to, to, like, content and stuff like that, and people my age very coincidentally kind of, like, don't really care that much about new music anymore in terms of, like, what... like, the level of discovery that, like-

Mm.

... a place like Pitchfork-

Mm

... and, like, kind of, like, pr- purport to offer. So it's like you have, like... This could be potentially geared towards, like, younger people who already have, like, RYM and, like, Twitter and, you know, Discord. So it's like... And, like, I don't know. Like, from my experience, younger people are not usually the ones giving money online. They're usually the ones asking for money. [laughs] So, like-I don't know if they're gonna have the $5 to spare-

[laughs]

... to like look at a score of mine. Especially since like, look, let's be real, like there could be like... I don't know how this is gonna work. I honestly thought the announcement was kind of like maddeningly vague. Like, I read it like several times and was like, "I still don't get what the value offer is here-"

Mm

... which is not a good sign.

Yeah, like [laughs] Larry's like, "Look, I'm a pretty smart guy, and I'm not understanding exactly what the value is here."

[laughs]

And I, I know that everyone who works there listens to this podcast, so I don't wanna be mean, but now that you're able to do your own Pitchfork score on a zero to 10.0 basis, they outlined what their criteria is, and surprising to no one, 10 is really good and zero is really bad.

Yeah, it, it, it's also kind of like, it's kinda like those like things where it's like, you know, you go... You like, you like go sit on the Friends couch in like a warehouse in Midtown, or like, you know, you visit the Seinfeld set.

[laughs]

Only it's for like Pitchfork scores. And like-

[laughs]

... I don't think like Pitchfork scores carry the same like, you know, like cultural like, like monocultural awareness as the Seinfeld set.

Definitely not. Nothing, nothing does. No, nothing does. I, I will agree with you on that. I, I just really believe that we're... I think we're underestimating how now more than ever people think that they're an expert and that their voice needs to be heard.

True. Yeah.

That's what this... To me, that's what this is playing on more than anything else.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. Yeah.

And it's like... But it like... 'Cause if Letterboxd started charging for all these dorks to write reviews that they're not paid for, they would pay it.

Yeah, because they use it to get pussy.

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. If you-

[laughs]

If Letterboxd was like-

Or they're-

... "Hey, bro, hey, $20 a month and you can write and message people," they would pay 50, they'd pay 100.

True. Yeah.

Wow, it's so crazy you like funny games too. [laughs]

Right?

Yeah.

I think that really is a big... I think everybody thinks that their opinion is important, and this puts sort of like a value on it in a way that maybe social media doesn't, because there i-

True

... you know? I don't know. May- maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.

Do you guys use Letterboxd?

Fuck no.

No. No, no, no.

I don't watch movies. I don't watch movies, so I don't care about it.

Oh, wow. Okay.

But I, I think it's-

Yeah

... I think that Letterboxd is really valuable too. It's, it's genius. Like, it's a... Again, it's making people-

Oh

... and their opinions and their tastes feel important. That's a, that's something that will always work.

And it's only better for the, the failing film industry, I think, to create that community.

Yeah, definitely. It's a, it's a upside. Yeah, it's, it's a-

Not joking.

I don't think there's any downside to Letterboxd except if I had to read it.

No. Yeah.

That's the... You know what I mean? Like, if, if somebody forced me to read it.

Well, that's the thing. I, I, I do feel like, you know, I was explaining this to somebody who doesn't use Letterboxd, like, because like for me, like Letterboxd is like a tracking system. Like, I would forget stuff I watched if I didn't log it.

Oh. So you're saying you're, you're... When you're really getting it in like you.

So the am- the amount of cannabis that you're intaking, you need Letterboxd or other- otherwise you'll be like, "I don't even-"

[laughs] Exactly. Yeah.

"Did I... Babe, did I see Rush Hour 3? I don't fucking remember, dude."

Yeah. [laughs] How else am I gonna remember?

No, that's true.

That honestly, but I think that's the level of like film nerd it appeals to as well as now, like-

True

... a younger person who's like, "Charli XCX uses this, I should use it."

Yeah.

You know? I think it, I think it does span that range.

And I think like the Charli Letterboxd thing is like a, like part of this, like I think you see things other people watch and you're like, "Oh, I haven't seen-"

Mm

... "like I should watch this."

No, it, that's... Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Whenever the reviews like escape containment, like I don't know, like it's like, it's like I think Letterboxd is a really good social media platform because like you actually don't have to see anybody's reviews if you don't want to. Like, there's no, there's nothing pushing you.

Oh.

There's like, you know, the, the homepage like of the app is like, "Oh, here's what your friends recently logged." But like it, there's no like, you know, for you tab where like there's like recommended movies.

There's not a feed. There's not a wall.

Yeah. Nothing like that. Yeah.

Oh, I see. I see. Okay. Okay.

So like when stuff escapes containment and goes viral on Twitter, um, or whatever, like you're just like, oh, like, you know, like this is like the... Somebody like really dug deep and found the absolute worst thing on this site-

Mm

... and is now exposing it to everybody else, which is kind of like the story of the internet.

The cream can, uh, uh, organically rise to the top the way it used to versus the algorithm-

Yeah

... bumping it up.

Yeah.

I didn't, I didn't know that. That's actually quite cool. Well, I, I guess, but think about like Goodreads, for example-

Mm-hmm. Yeah

... which has been sort of co-opted by like Netgalleys being sent to fucking Reese Witherspoon Book Club-

[laughs]

... members all over the world. So there's like... It's just no one feels qualified in any way.

Sure.

But it's so valuable to the industry, and it really sells books.

Mm-hmm.

So I wonder if Letterboxd could be bastardized in some way eventually where it'll be sort of like a tool-

We'll find a way

... another tool-

We'll find a way. We'll find a way to destroy it. Yeah

... for, for the industry to like, to, to gamify it and, and promote something, you know?

Yeah.

Okay. Well, I, I guess on the opposite spectrum, Twitter now will pay you a million dollars for the quote unquote "best article" or wha- or whatever as they-

I saw that. Yeah

... they, they're literally giving you a million-

Are you submitting? Did you submit?

No, I didn't submit. [laughs]

I always talk about the destruction of the middle class and, and the middle of everything, and now we either have I'm on food stamps as a writer or I got paid a million dollars today to write an article about how to, you know, optimize your morning routine or whatever, and then anything in between is just nonexistent anymore.

Well, it's kinda like the beastification of everything. Like Mis- like it's very Mr. Beast to be like, "I'll offer you a million dollars-

Yeah

... for an ar- article on Twitter." Like, you know, like when I see stuff like that, you know, a- as like, you know, like a fully functioning adult-

[laughs]

... I'm like, you know, like this is, this is a scam. Like, this is like, I don't know, this is like a rip-off. Like, you know, like-

It's a, it's a Willy Wonka's golden ticket.

Willy Wonka, yeah. And all those kids died in that movie. Like, you know, like-

[laughs]

[laughs]

... Willy Wonka kills those kids.

Yeah, all those kids died.

Like, you know, that didn't end well for anybody except for one guy.

Oh, so you want, you want everybody to die?

Yeah, that's what you want, uh, Elon Musk.

I, I mean, I just don't want... I don't want any part of it. Like, honestly, if, if like I try and think of myself, like if, if Willy Wonka had offered me a tour of that weird ass factory, I probably would've said no.Because I would've been like, "This is... W- what the fuck is this?" Like, I, I, I'm not gonna do this

And this is a similar... So you're saying if, if they offer you a million dollars to submit a- and be the best article ever, you're, you're like something's too fishy.

Something's up here. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Like, there's no such thing as a good deal these days.

You might be underestimating your ability to resist delicious sweets, Larry.

[laughs]

Yeah. I don't have that strength. Actually, last night, I-

As a ch- as a, as a s- seven-year-old Larry is gonna say no to a waterfall made out of delicious milk chocolate?

Yeah.

I don't think so, buddy.

I don't believe that.

That's a good point.

I... Maybe, maybe adult Larry would, but child Larry, I... Last night, j- quickly, not to digress, but I did finally try the Dubai chocolate.

Oh, wow. Okay.

Dubai chocolate.

In what form?

Uh, it was a small square. Um, it was a small-

Okay

... it was single... The... It was a, it was a package of maybe eight small squares that were also packaged.

What's her @?

And, [laughs] and it is, um, unfortunately very delicious, and I c- I could taste sort of the blood money-

Sure. Yeah

... flavored top notes, but it was worth it.

You could taste the SEO washing of it all?

I was saying this to a... I was saying this to another friend who lives around here, like, I feel like overnight, like, the amount of, like, Dubai chocolate dupes in Bushwick and Bed-Stuy bodegas-

Mm-hmm

... it's, like, kinda like ca- like, kinda like the K2 epidemic.

[laughs]

Like, it's, there's a very, like, gas station weed feel to it where it's like I don't tru- I don't trust this stuff.

Yeah.

Like, I don't know what the fuck-

The Zaza R Us-ification of Dubai chocolate

... of Dubai chocolate. Yeah.

Yeah.

It feels like a Kratom shooter for someone who's sober.

Absolutely.

Yeah. You... Some... You're like, "This, this pistachio was farm-raised, I can tell. This is bullshit."

[laughs]

[laughs]

"Are you using a synthetic pistachio powder in this, uh, in this Temu food?"

I know where this is coming from. I know where this... So when did you... Are you writing this letter, newsletter full time?

Uh, yeah. I mean, like, like, as m- as much as one can, can do.

So what do you... Okay. So what do you think about the sort of the vibe now that everyone believes they're owed a career that is creative? Sort of like the, "I should be paid for this because I want to do it," a- and it's not-

[laughs]

... maybe merit-based the way it, it once was.

I guess my question to you would be do you think that that's a... Do you think that that's a sensation that, like, currently emerged? Or is that kind of like a millennial hangover thing?

Great question. It could be both.

I think it's millennial hangover.

But I also think I'm, uh, acutely aware and exposed to it, uh, because I'm too online, and those are-

Sure

... you know, that's my world that I live in.

And also, we're all of the g- the last generation where-

Yeah

... there were-

Yeah

... creative jobs that you could get even if you were a fucking idiot. You can intern at a-

Yeah, exactly

... fake agency and work your way up into an actual, you know, salaried career position, and that doesn't exist anymore.

I, I, I mean, especially if you're a fucking idiot.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Like, you... But yeah. I don't know. It's interesting 'cause I feel like there was, like, this, like, you know... I mean, like, you know, the, the ch- 2010s trajectory was very much like there's a lot of money, but no one's actually making money, and then, like, you know, everybody wants to, like, touch the money, and then, like, as soon as people start touching the money, the money disappears. And then-

Mm

... you know, pandemic happens, and then everyone's like, "Okay, like, the new thing now that, like, everything is, like, breaking is, like, doing things ourselves," and, like, hopefully... I had somebody say to me, um, a music industry guy who, like, had a lot of, like, fake savvy to him. Like, I had somebody s- this guy said to me in, like, 2021, he was like, "You know, just be prepared 'cause in, like, a few years, VC companies will start, like, offering money for newsletters the same way, you know, that happened with, like, Gorilla vs. Bear in the 2000s."

Mm-hmm.

And I was like, "Yeah, I really don't think that's gonna happen this time."

[laughs]

But, like, people did think that that was gonna happen. I think we're approaching the point in the decade where everyone's like, "All right. I've, like, put in my work with, like, doing something for myself. Like, where's the cash?" Like, you know, like, I think that's definitely a sensation that's, like, kind of occurring, and it's kind of that, like, e- millennial echo thing where it's like, you know, this happened once before. Why can't it happen again? But, like-

Mm-hmm. That's real

... I think, like, the existing structures in media, like, will probably have to, like, disintegrate, like, a little more.

We brought it up because Jason and I are putting a small fund together to purchase Brooklyn Vegan. So if you wanna get in-

[laughs]

... if you wanna get in now, we've been talking to some guys in the Valley about it.

Yeah. They're one of the last good... They're, like, one of the last good sites to visit [laughs] at this point.

Yeah. Well, it's gonna be Brooklyn Keto in 18 months-

[laughs]

... if we get all of our seed round sorted out.

Brooklyn, brooklynprotein.com has already been purchased-

[laughs]

... and we're kinda working on the rebrand.

And this pro- this protein is not legume-based either, honey, okay?

[laughs] Well, it's all about fiber now, so it's gotta be Brooklyn Fiber now.

Mm.

See, Larry, that's why, that's why we're talking to you. We... This is why you can make the big bucks.

Larry, you been fiber maxing over there without letting us know? What's going on?

I am not fi- I, [laughs] I am not fiber maxing. I'm just seeing shit that people say online-

[laughs]

... and I'm just like, "All right. Like, I guess that's the next thing now." Like-

How many grams of chia seeds do you eat every day, Larry?

[laughs]

It's very important. Very important question.

You know, I had some chia seeds yesterday 'cause I got this cookie granola from the, uh, from the bodega that had, like, some chia seeds in it.

I don't think that c-

Cookie granola?

I don't think that counts. I think that cancels out the chia seeds.

Are, are you just saying that because granola is just squished up cookies-

[laughs]

... or is this a different thing?

This is actually, like, honestly, like, I, I bought it 'cause, like, I, I was like, "What the fuck is this?" 'Cause it, it, like, literally says-

[laughs]

... cookie, cookie granola on the bag, and I'm like, "This seems, like, kind of, like, like, repetitive," like, 'cause, like, granola is, like, a step away from cookies.

Right. Okay. So, so you, you had to buy it simply to get to the bottom of this, and you would've done the same thing if it said, "This is a broccoli vegetable soup." You'd be like-

[laughs]

... "What? Broccoli's already a vegetable. I better buy it."

Yeah. What is this? Yeah, exactly.

Same vibe?

Yeah. No, same deal.

Babe, can you go... Can you-

Thank God

... can you put a stove on the... Babe, I'm coming home with something I gotta try, so you can just heat it up.

[laughs]

I, I'm... I-

It's for science, babe

... yeah, I gotta figure this out right fucking now.

I'll do the cookie granola for science. [laughs]

I gotta get this right fucking now.

[laughs]

That's... All right. Well, I'm glad to know that... I, I think that the millennial hangover of all is something maybe I hadn't fully considered or at least not... It hadn't been articulated to me that way, and I think that's a good point and a good way to-

And also, that was sort of the last time when, you know, the unions were really unioning-

Sure. Yeah

... and now everyone is upset that-"podcasts on Netflix are just talk shows without a union now."

Yeah.

So now it's just another, like-

Yeah, I need somebody, I need somebody to advocate for Pete Davidson and Michael Irvin-

[laughs]

... ASAP 'cause those guys, those guys have it-

Well, it's not, it's not, it's not Pete Davidson. He doesn't have a- But it's, you know, it's the, the third lighting tech on the show or whatever-

No, no, I know

... that person's gonna get paid $175 for a 12-hour day with no healthcare, no dental, no whatever.

I mean, look-

Take it or leave it, bud

... honestly, when we're talking about scams, it's like-

[laughs]

I think, like, I think, like, taking part in a Pete Davidson project at this point, like you guys saw what happened with Bupkis, you know, that show that he had.

[laughs]

He, he, he was booked for a second-

Actually, nobody saw what happened with that

... he was booked for a second season. People were watching that shit somehow. He was booked for a second season, and he walked off. And, like, the, like, there was, like, a bunch of articles-

Hey, look, he's so- he's sober now. He's gonna be a father. He got his tats removed. It's different this time.

[laughs] He's a different guy, yeah.

He's not, he's not out chasing tail all hours of the day. He's focused.

He, no, he's locked in, yeah.

He's focused.

No, that's true. [laughs]

He got Benny Blanco's sloppy seconds, too.

Uh, he got a lot of people.

Oh, my God.

She's, she's-

[laughs]

She only dates celebrities. My favorite. I love that.

Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm.

That's a good- But I, I saw this week on Twitter actually that there's some- someone from the Desus & Mero, after, after it got announced that Mero got the Hot 97 job, congratulations to him.

Mm.

Perfect choice.

Yeah. Mm.

Someone that works on the show was like, like, "These guys are so, so..." You know?

I saw that.

Basically like-

Yeah

... "Fuck these guys. They fucked me." And it's like, dude, that, like, you work for a... I, I don't, I'm, like, I don't understand. Like, that, they had personal issues. They didn't wanna continue doing the show.

They said that they, they were hoping the show was gonna go for 20 years, but it didn't.

Yeah. It's like it's not their responsibility to... Like, I don't, the per- the lack of personal responsibility is what blows my mind in these situations. Like-

Yeah. I mean, I think there's, like, a, um, I think that's, again, like, a really millennial thing, where it's like there is this sense of, like, um... I think because every- I think because there's, like, so few pathways towards, like, fixing anything that anybody can-

Mm

... actually, like, take part in, it's just like, okay, so, like, where do I, like, where do I direct this anger? Like, I'm sympathetic to it. Like, um-

Mm-hmm

... I'm mostly just surprised that, like, and I say this with, like, full respect for both Desus and Mero, but I'm, like, mostly just surprised that they have so many shooters still in 2026.

[laughs]

Like, like, that's ki- that's kinda wild to me. Like, like, this is a property that's been dead for years. Like-

I think that show-

Mm-hmm

... I think that, especially, like, the Vice version when it was ver- when it was really-

They're the Urban Come Town

... when it was, yeah, when it was really, really kicking, I just think there hasn't been and probably won't be anything like that on television again.

Well, I worked at, I worked at Vice when, um, when they were, when that show was on the air.

Yeah.

And it was actually crazy 'cause, like, they would walk... We had an open plan office, of course, and they would-

[laughs]

... walk into the office and, like-

Larry, you're talk- You, you don't think we haven't been to that office? Come on, now.

For our listeners at home, he's painting a picture for our listeners at home.

I forgot who I was talking to.

[laughs]

We got fans in Antarctica, Chris. They don't always know about the open structure format of, of the Williamsburg office. Sorry, Lar- go ahead, Larry.

They'd walk in, they'd walk in.

[laughs]

The two of them would walk in that office just to do a business meeting or something, and, like, it was like... I, I honestly was, like, a little embarrassed, like, for my coworkers because they would, they would be, like, going nuts. They would go feral for, like, being in these guys' presence. It was almost like-

Really?

Yeah. It was, it was almost like this race. Um, like, you would see guys, like, get up from their chairs and be like, like, like, a race, like, so you can pretend to be friends with these two guys first. Like-

Yeah

... there was a real cult of personality where I was just kinda like-

The glazing was through the charts, off the charts glazing.

It was, it was honestly, it wa- the glazing was out of control. Um-

[laughs]

And I, I really wish we had that, uh, lingua franca for back then because I could've correctly-

Right?

... uh, correctly called it as such. But it was shocking. I was like, I was like, "Y'all are grown-ass adults-

You can call it dick riding

... flipping out over two guys you work with. Like, let's take a beat," you know?

Yeah, everybody calm down. I mean, I just think that I do... Once it got to Showtime and they had writers, it sort of changed 'cause it didn't feel as much like them, you know?

Sure.

Um-

This is why you should never unionize. Okay, let's move on, Larry.

[laughs]

One of, uh, one of Chris' favorite musical artists, Harry Styles, announced a new record, and you said that the new Harry Styles record is "pandemic-coded by nature," and I would like us to expand on this, please.

Yeah, I mean, that cover is, like, very much like, "I took this in my backyard while social distancing."

[laughs]

Okay. You know, I wasn't with you, but now I kinda see your point.

Yeah. That title-

Patrick Collins came over in a hazmat suit and shot this in my Eagle Rock backyard. [laughs]

Exactly, yeah, yeah.

Okay, I'm with it, I'm with it.

The, the title has that kind of, like, Future Nostalgia Jr. approach where it's like-

Yeah. Oof

... you know, like, "Oh," like, "Oh," like, you know, "We're in the club, but we're not. We're together, but we're apart." Like, it's like, I don't know. Like, it's, it's really funny 'cause, like, I feel like as somebody who really likes dance music, it, uh, I would like... If Harry Styles wanted to make, like, an actual dance music record, like, with, like, full force behind it, like something like-

No, Larry, no

... the Zara Larsson record from last year-

No, we do not want that, Larry. We do not want that.

You, you don't want it, but do you want this instead?

I don't know yet.

[laughs]

I'm hopeful.

We'll have to see what it is.

I'm hopeful.

Yeah, is the thing.

Larry, guitars are back, bro. All this little bleep, bleep, bloop, bloop hip hop, it's all, it's done, bro. We're coming back to the charts, baby.

[laughs]

We're coming back to the charts.

Think he's in the booth with M.J. Lenderman, uh, jamming it up?

I'm plugging, I'm plugging in my fucking SG, and I'm fucking dropping the tuning, and we're getting into Thomas Rhett.

Yeah, I mean, are you, are you predicting this realistically, or is this simply wishful thinking from a boomer?

Wishful thinking from a boomer, for sure.

Got it, okay. [laughs]

I mean, I think, I think, I, I think that-

Did you make a new friend, or was it just... [laughs]

I think that Larry's probably right, but I don't think he would go... I think it'll still have to sort of satiate the... I don't think he would alienate his audience by going too far in, in any direction really.

It'll be, like, the same, like, reheated, like, Blue Nile thing that we've done for, like, five years now. W- It really goes back to, like, the 1975, which, like, I feel like the last Harry Styles record had, like, a lot of 1975 in it. Like, the best moments honestly sounded like fake 1975 songs. Um-

Period

... and, like, I don't know if he's gonna continue in that direction 'cause, like, we have so many fake 1975 bands now that-

Mm-hmm

... uh, it's, like, almost, like, too much to keep track of. But I don't know. Like, Harry Styles is a very popular guy. Like, those, like, when you're that popular, I feel like you're three or four years behind on, like, everything. So-

Mm-hmm

... maybe, maybe he's just caught up.

I, that, that might, strangely, that might work in his favor-

Yeah

... being behind.

No, it may.

You know what I... Like, what I... You're right.

Yeah, I mean, you don't, uh, uh, some- But when you're, when you're headlining arena tours, you don't wanna be first or, you know, too early to things. You want-You know, Tulsa, Oklahoma to understand what you're talking about, not only Silver Lake and, and Brooklyn.

But Larry, you're right. I mean, it's like I also think he could do no wrong, kind of. Like if, if it was absolutely a trave-

He's too charismatic to fail at anything.

If it's, if it was a total travesty in every way, he would still sell out every show and it would still be number... Which I think is-

Yeah

... I would say more challenging to an artist on a lot of hurdles. Like knowing sort of deep down that your fans are so rabid that it doesn't matter what you do, they'll probably follow you into the fire, could be crippling, I, I, I think.

Yeah. I mean, he... But I feel like his whole thing, like, I don't know, I thought the press, press tour behind the last record was interesting because like he kind of has this like wounded fawn approach to being famous now that like I think is like very like, I think it's very appealing to people. Like, they're like, "Oh, like, you know, this guy like kinda survived like-

It's appealing to me, Larry. I'm hard right now.

[laughs]

This guy survived fucking his way through Hollywood.

Yeah, Larry. You don't, you don't, you don't wanna see below this table, I'll tell you what. It's the, it's, it's working. It's working.

Did you guys see Don't Worry Darling?

Did we see wha- what? No. Oh, the movie. I heard, I heard-

Don't Worry, Don't Worry Darling. Yeah

... I did not see that. I heard maybe it wasn't great. I didn't read your Letterboxd review.

I saw it on an, on an airplane maybe twice, and I still... I mean, I don't know if we can call that a movie, but it was, it was a video.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's not-

It was a video [laughs]

... there's like, there's like-

No, I mean, I'm not even saying it was bad, but I watched it front to back with undivided attention on an airplane, and I was like-

Sure

... this was a collection of video images with music and a, a title sequence.

There's that bit in the third act where they dress him up like an incel and it's really funny. And like-

Yeah, that's true

... like it's re- like, and you know, like-

I'm back

... it's kind of like self-effacing to like have h- a guy like him like go through that.

Yeah, true.

You know? Like the, there's, you felt-

You felt, so you, Larry, you felt seen. You finally were like-

Yeah [laughs]

... "You know what? Harry Styles and I, we finally have something in common."

Yeah. Yeah.

"I was so sick of this guy." He's like, you're like, "I don't like sequins. Whatever, I can live with that. But this, this is a little too much. This is too close." [laughs]

Yeah. No, that's real. Um, yeah, I, I, I don't know. I don't like... I, I, I feel like he's more interesting as a person than as a musician, uh, to me, and he's... And like the most interesting thing about him as a person is that like he seems to be like playing it like extremely safe in terms of like being a public figure. Like I, like, you know, like even like him like winning the Grammy over Beyonce, there was like this kind of like you could play the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme like over that moment.

Well, he deserved that.

[laughs]

I mean, come on now. Let's, let's be honest.

Yeah. No, sure. Sure. I mean, it's so much like anybody deserves a Grammy, I guess.

Well, what, what was, what did, what happened exactly with that for those of us who don't recall? Was it, was he very like, "I don't deserve this" type of energy? Or was it-

No, he wasn't, he didn't full... He didn't g- he didn't go, um, what's the, what was the guy na- the, the guy who w- beat Kendrick?

Uh, Macklemore.

Yeah, Ma-

[laughs]

He didn't go Macklemore. It wasn't that bad.

No.

It wasn't that bad. But I do think, I think it's like when you're that famous and you're beating another person who's maybe the only person who's even more famous than you-

Yep

... you have to be a little bit... You can't... It, it will be, if you were gloating, you'd be in trouble.

Yeah, you can't stop. Yeah.

If you, if you don't, it's, you can't win, like, like literally and figuratively, you know?

Yeah. No, that's a really good point. Yeah.

Well, sorry. I forgot about Macklemore until right that second. I, I-

Yeah, Mackle-

... I'm sorry to bring that up

... Macklemore's cool now.

Is that true?

[laughs] I mean, I, I feel like people are cool with Macklemore because he's been very politically outspoken.

Dude, if it, all you gotta do-

In like the right way

... Macklemore, Macklemore punished society for multiple years, and all he has to do is be like, "I'm, I'm, I'm liberal"? And-

Well, 'cause he, he dressed up... The, like all the photos of him wearing like the Hasidic costume.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think now that we're in such an anti-Zionist world, they're like, "Damn, Macklemore is fucking based."

Oh, wow. I didn't... I'm not keeping... I'm, I guess you guys follow him on Instagram. I need to start. I'm missing out on the action it sounds like.

[laughs]

I didn't, I didn't know he was that good.

I mean, like-

No

... the amount of deep listening I do means that I still check for Macklemore records, and like-

[laughs]

... there's always like one or two songs on every Macklemore record where I'm like, "Yeah, I think you came close to like making a good song here," but like-

Damn

... he, but like he's like impossibly earnest. Like, it's like I can't like, I can't fault him for being who he is.

That's the least swag... That... You can't be an earnest rapper.

No.

Those things don't work. Like look what happened to Chance the Rapper when he talked about divorce.

[laughs]

Like no one-

Yeah

... it was like, bro.

You get, you get in the way of your own success by, by being too earnest as a rapper.

I mean, was that Chance's problem was that he was too earnest?

Even if you're right.

I felt like his problem was that he had, he was kind of like feeling the new Kanye thing a little too hard.

Well, the problem was that he sucked.

Yeah.

But I'm saying that there, there's an al-

That wasn't great

... there, there's an album that came out where it was like he just got destroyed.

Sure.

Like not the, the most recent one people like.

I think it was like a, it was like a divorce album or something like that.

Yeah, it was. He got divor-

Yeah

... but it was like I love my... He wa- it was a whole thing.

The Big Day. Yeah.

He, he did like a simping album.

I'm sad that I know about it. I'm sad that I know about it.

The Big Day, The Big Day was his marriage album, and it was really rough, and it had, um, it had like Death Cab for Cutie do the guest spot on it, which is like, that's never a good sign.

Oh, I got-

[laughs]

... I got Ben Gibbard in the booth?

Yeah.

Oh my goodness.

Like Ben Gibbard's singing a hook. It wasn't just like a Death Cab sample. Like it was like, it was rough.

[laughs]

I honestly, I remember listening to it and being like, "What the fuck is this?"

Ben Gibbard was like-

[laughs]

... "All right. Look, I just run, I just ran 150 miles, but I'll come do it for you, Chance."

Yeah.

"I'll do it for you I'll do it, bro. Let me just ice my legs."

Ben won't, he won't make that mistake twice.

He will not make that mistake twice.

No, probably not.

Do you have any... Larry, do you have any Grammy predictions? Are we gonna be surprised by anything that happens in a couple weeks?

Man, I don't even know who's nominated.

Same.

I gotta pull this up right now.

This is your job, Larry.

I, no, I would, I would, I would dispute that.

[laughs]

I don't, I, I don't know if people who are checking for me care about the Grammys at this point, but, uh-

[laughs]

... I'll, I'll, I'll accept it.

I'll give you credit, Larry. You're not a, you're not a poptimist like the evil New York Times. You know? You really-

[laughs]

... you're in the, you're in the trenches. I subscribe to your newsletter. I see what you're talking about. I'm learning about music from you, and I, I think that-

Oh, that's great

... that is a real service. But you're, you're not, you're not dissecting Sabrina Carpenter at a sort of, uh, intellectual level like some are.

What if, what if the Grammys introduced new categories likeThe Golden Globes did with podcasting- Mm ... et cetera. You know? Like biggest glazed donut maybe? People just don't care about, like, what a bunch of old executives think is the best metal album, and it's always, like, you know, like a Ozzy Osbourne reissue or like- [laughs] ... you know, an Aerosmith album that we never knew existed always wins. You know? I mean, like, I love asking people when I talk to people who have won Grammys, I love asking them, like, how it actually feels like going to the Grammys, 'cause they're always like, "It's... It sucks. It's, it's-" Yeah, everyone hates it. Yeah, it's- Oh, yeah, yeah. But, like, that's also kind of like what going to any award show is like. Like, you know, like- But they would all go- Larry, that's- ... if you get invited ... that's what going to anything is like. 99% of things I go to suck. Yeah. No, that's real. Yeah. [laughs] It's extremely real. But if I get to put on a t- if I get to put on a tuxedo and, you know, see some hotties, it... There, there's worse things out there. Sure. Yeah. You... People just go to the Grammys for the photo of them in their cool clothing for social media now. It has nothing to do with enjoying the actual show. I'm looking at the nominees. I see Anxiety is nominated for Record of the Year. That's like one of the worst songs ever made. Like, I'm, I'm honestly, like, kind of surprised. Who s- what is Anxiety? The Doechii song. Oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Where Doechii literally- I li- I like, I like D- I like Doechii, but- Doechii's great in general, but, like, y- but, like, that was like- I don't like Doechii. Oh, yeah? Well, what's your beef with Doechii? She's, like, kinda Benson Boone-y. Oh, wow. It's like, uh, it's more, like, theatrical performance, and it's, like, it's about the- Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, I think that's true. And it's also similar to, like, when Beyoncé was releasing really fast music that you couldn't dance to. Like, it was like, damn, this music is so good, but it's just, like, pump up music, but if it came on in the club, how do you dance to Doechii? You just don't, you know what I mean? Yeah. But I'm a club kid, so it's kinda different. I think that the problem with what happened with Doechii's career, 'cause, like, and she's still doing good, obviously. She's nominated for a bunch of Grammys, but, like, uh, and Geese are kind of experiencing this too, honestly. Like, with Chappell Roan, when Chappell Roan, like, blew up all of a sudden, um, and everyone was like, oh, like, you know, you're seeing, like, these, like, mass events of everybody doing the Hot To Go dance at Lollapalooza or whatever. Like- H-O-T-T, hot to go. Don't, Chris. That was me. [laughs] I was out there. You were there. You were in the trenches. I was in this, I was in the fucking- Chris was in the pit. I was controlling the drone of that epic footage. I was in the trenches with the they/thems. Don't get it twisted. [laughs] I was out there. What she did that was really smart off of that was she was like, "All right. I'm not gonna put out, like, a record for, like, four years now, so I hope you all are fine with this." Whereas I feel like, um, Doechii, off of, like, having very similar out of nowhere success, where suddenly, like, everybody was like, "This is amazing about a record that had been out for nine months." You know, then, like, you know, people... There was, like, I guess, like, from my... What my understanding was with Anxiety, there was like, people were like, "Oh, this is, like, a SoundCloud loosie. We'd love to see this as a single." Mm-hmm. And, like, she put it out as a single. She made a video for it. The video's awful, the song's bad. [laughs] And it became, like, her biggest hit, and it's kind of this, like- That sucks ... albatross where it's like, yeah, like, now you have this terrible... Also, like- [laughs] ... the Gocha song, like, that song fucking rules. Like, Gocha is good. Like, he, he's a very talent- he's a very talented songwriter. That one record was fire. But, like, you know, you have this song kind of ruining the legacy [laughs] of the Gocha song and kind of, like, you know, stalling her career even though she's doing really well. It's very, it's a very, like, 2020s issue- Mm-hmm ... for, like, a pop star to have, honestly. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, as long as Kendrick Lamar doesn't win anything, I'm gonna be happy. So that's kinda what we're, that's what we're playing. I think he may take a couple, Chris. Last year was his year, right? Like- I think... Well, I think Clipse, Clipse is gonna win, and they might win with him, or they might win on their own. Yeah. They'd probably like to give... Uh, but K- will Kendrick show up for a feature? Probably not. Maybe. He likes the awards. I feel like he likes going to them. Well, that's all... I mean- [laughs] ... yeah, he, he's so... He's got such a great personality. I love when it shines through at award shows. [laughs] It'd be sick if Bieber won and he wasn't there. I think that's, like, the best case scenario for the Grammys this year. I kind of agree. I wonder who's gonna perform. Well, look, we'll find out soon on CBS- Yeah. [laughs] ... or wherever. It's gonna be awesome. Where- where- wherever it is. Or whichever network, yeah. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not exactly sure. I'm not exactly sure. Yeah, it's crazy how, how I'm more knowledgeable and invested in the music world more so than film and television, and the Grammys is the most boring- Yeah ... mo- least enjoyed show because it, it, it is personality based, and you're just watching it to see what people wear and what people say. And musicians wear and say bad things- But that's every award show at this point ... by and large. No, it's not. No, it's not. Yes, it is, 100%. Because the Grammys, the Golden Globes, the Emmys, these are people who talk professionally and look hot professionally for a living, not Bruno... You know, Bruno Mars is gonna wear a dumb outfit and say something dumb when he wins the award. Oh, I agree with you, but if you think actors are smarter than musicians or more well-spoken, I don't know if I can go there. I didn't say smarter. Yeah. I didn't say smarter. Honestly- I, I, I don't know- Yeah ... I don't know if a guy on Heated Rivalry is gonna blow my mind with his acceptance speech more than Bruno Mars. I think it will. No. [laughs] I, I think every- I think it'll be better ... I, I don't think... I think all the award shows are the same, and that's why they're all suffering. Are you, are you guys here- It's, it's, it- Are you guys here for the Bruno Mars, uh, comeback, 2026 Bruno Mars tour? No. Fuck no. Never. Never. Every song he makes sounds the exact same. It's insane h- that it works. I've never liked Bruno Mars. Oh, really? All right. It's coworker mu- it's coworker wedding music. I like that he does cocaine and has a gambling problem. That's the coolest thing about him. Yeah. Those are pretty, th- those are pretty dope facts about him. I think, like, I think, like, that, that, like, has, like, maybe- He's ha- he's probably had somebody killed, so that's cool. The alleged gambling stuff I think is, like... I think it, like, adds to the, like, the allure of him. Like, I feel like he did, like, his early career, like, really rough, like a lot of, like, really bad early 2010s garbage. And then I feel like he, like, kind of embraced this, like, Greatest Showman-esque- Mm-hmm ... like, like, persona, where at first you're like, "This is really corny. I don't like this." And then it's like, oh, wait, this is what this guy is gonna be doing for, like, 30 years. Like- Yeah, but he's like a street... He's like an Elvis impersonator. Like, that's who he is. Like, that's for real. But he's a very good, he's a very good Elvis impersonator, and people come out for impersonators, man. Like, people show up for it. [laughs] I can't wait to see the, the ticket sales reports- It's true ... not to be a narc, but I'm very interested to see- Sure ... if after that long it can really work the same way. No, no, uh, he will, he will sell out every single ticket of his tour, and it's gonna be all nurses, and they're all gonna be loving it. Well, the Bruno Mars/Lady Gaga song was funny to me 'cause it felt like... It's like the way Lady Gaga does, like, kind of, like, the fake elder abuse thing with, like, Tony Bennett- [laughs] ... and, like, Liza Minnelli. It felt like Bruno Mars was kinda doing that with Lady Gaga. Yeah. Yeah. It all goes, it all comes circular. [laughs] Uh, Larry, before we let you go, what's your Geese verdict? Just while we have you, and a- as a Brooklyn resident. Mm-hmm

Um-

Oh wait, how about this, Larry? If you have to give Geese overall as a phenomenon a Pitchfork score, what would it be?

As a phenomenon?

Yeah, not, not their, not their album, but just Geese.

I think phenomenon factors in all of the fact-

Sure

... all of the factors.

I, I mean, like, you know, I think, I feel like as a phenomenon, it hit, I'd hit it with like a low eight, best new music.

Okay. That, all right. That's, no that's-

You know

... I think that's a fair, I think that's a fair-

Mm-hmm

... judge of it. I think it's a fair judge of it.

It's nice to see unbridled enthusiasm for, for bands. Like, you know, like, I know you guys had Rowdy Bottom on, uh-

Mm-hmm

... the, uh, podcast. I had him on the newsletter, and one of the first things he said when we talked, he was like, he was like, "Man, I, I like fucking love Geese so much." And I was like, kind of like, I was like taken aback. He brought it up just out of nowhere. I asked him what his favorite authors were.

[laughs] And you're like, "But you're cool. What's going on, bro?"

[laughs] But like, I don't know. It's like, it's like one of those things where it's like, um, like when Geese started like doing their Ascent thing, w- when people started to get really hyped up about it, um, and bring it full circle, I remember I was driving around during Alternate Side Parking, and I was like thinking about, I was thinking about this and I was like, "I wonder if we're gonna get to a point here where you're gonna have like every single aging, like, cool rock guy come out and be like, Ge- like, Geese gets the, you know, Obama's favorite songs-

Definitely

... the stamp of approval."

[laughs]

And it's happening. Like, I, I feel like, like you can like set your watch to Paul McCartney endorsing Geese before the end of the year. It's gonna happen.

I mean, look, yeah. I, I think, I think the enthusiasm, I will agree with you, is both like refreshing-

Yeah, it's nice

... and like, you guys chill out.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

But I think every- I think everybody should chill out about everything, so I'm the wrong guy to talk to.

I agree with that.

Um, but no, that's interesting.

Okay, if you, if you could have, um, for, for Harry Styles' upcoming pandemic-coded tour, who's the ideal opening act for you if you have to go see him?

God. I just don't like think it'd ever want to go see him.

The Rapture?

The Rapture. [laughs] That's not even, that's not even a real band anymore, man. That's, that's Luke with, that's Luke with like some guy and his son.

Is it, is it your... Did I read, did you interview him and he's-

Yeah, yeah

... and he's a therapist now, right?

He's a life coach.

Bro, fuck out of here. You can't be a life coach when your band fizzled. I need success.

[laughs]

I mean, s- I, one of the guys, the, one of the guys in the band put out like a statement a- like after he, like started the new band, and they were like, "Matty being a life coach is like the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life."

[laughs]

And h- honestly, you know, like, I, I, I hate to say this, but like, after having talked to him for an hour, I also think it's pretty funny. Like, I, I, I'm, I'm not sure. It's like, you know, like the, um, you guys watch Peep- you guys watch Peep Show? Whenever they want-

No.

Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm familiar with it. Chris, not so much.

All right. So there's like, so like one of the characters in Peep Show becomes a life coach because you don't have to get accreditation, um, on, like becoming a therapist.

[laughs]

And like, so of course when I interviewed Matty, like one of the first things I asked him when he brought up the life coach thing, I was like, "So what's the accreditation like for this?" Because I knew he was gonna be like, "I didn't wanna do three years of school, so I cut my corners and-"

And he's like, "When you say accreditation-"

Yeah

... what do you mean by that exactly?"

That's really funny. That's really fucking funny.

He was refreshingly honest. He was like, "Hey, look, I didn't wanna, like, I'm too dumb for..." He literally said to me, "I'm too dumb for school, so I just, you know, printed myself a life coach certificate," or whatever. [laughs] And I was like, "I, I know honestly straightforwardness is honest, man. Let's go."

I appreciate the honesty.

Sure.

Um, all right, Larry, thank you for joining us today on How Long Gone.

Yeah, of course.

Where can people... People can find you on Twitter and they can subscribe. The link is in your bio?

Yeah. Hell yeah, yeah, Last donut of the night. It's right in my bio.

Great. All right. Thanks, Larry. It was r- a pleasure and, um, we're gonna record some ads, but we'll talk to you soon.

We'll see you on Blue Sky, bro.

Bye-bye.

All right, bro. Have a good one, man. See you later.

Take care. [upbeat music]

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