888. - Chris & Jason

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian, and they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world, and they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. [upbeat music] Oh, baby, we're back, 2026. Jason, just before we get going, I, I have a few words that I wanna say to the listeners, and, um, something I, I think you'll, you'll agree with.

I'm on his 2026 shit. Let's go.

I'm on my, I'm on my lock in. I just wanna say that, that, Jason, we will podcast this year without shame and insecurity. We will make no apology for what we believe. We will not abandon our principles for fear of being deemed radical. We will replace the frigidity [laughs] of rugged individualism with the warmth of collectivism, and I just want that to be very clear upfront, Jason. [explosion]

You know what? I, I have a feeling that this is a quote that was quoted by somebody else in a funny situation, and I wish I knew what it was-

[laughs]

... in reference to.

Well, it, it was Zohran Mamdani being sworn in as the mayor-

Ah

... of New York City, and people are saying that replacing the frigidity of rugged individualism with the warmth of collectivism is one of the dumbest things to ever have been uttered-

[laughs]

... um, on Earth. I, I find it... It's a little clunky. I'm no expert, you know, but it's a little clunky, but I just wanted to make sure that we kind of... I would like to start our, our new term as podcasters [laughs] in the same way, you know, with that sort of confidence and, and, um-

Mm-hmm

... just, just positive outlook, really, you know?

I, I Googled the word frigidity, and I know the word frigid and I know ity.

I know you've called, I know you've called many chicks frigid when you were 14, and I'm glad to see that it's coming back around.

Frigidity, I mean-

[laughs]

... it's just such an interesting word to choose in as your socialist swear in, you know, your economy of words. He's a great public speaker. Frigidity is an outdated term for female dysfunction.

That's what I tho- I always thought of that as, like, a 13-year-old boy calling a girl who wouldn't kiss him frigid is the, is the way that that term was al-

What, in, in, in Victorian London?

No, that was... No, that was, like, a kn- that was a definitely a thing when we were kids, maybe not in SoCal 'cause you guys had your own slang.

This chick fucking sucks is what we would say.

[laughs]

And you say, "I find her positively frigid."

"She's absolutely frigid." Um, but I, I thought his choice of words was interesting, and not, it wasn't only me that thought it was interesting. The entire internet also found it-

[laughs]

... quite inter- interesting. And then there, there was of course, which is one of my favorite debates and shows how stupid people are about the price of his, his, his wife's clothes.

Yeah, that was, that, the only... You know, my internet was just feeding me either, "I can't believe she's wearing $600 boots," or, "Honey, if you think that's a lot for boots, you have a lot," you know?

Y- yeah, and it's, it's just like, guys, it's... That debate is... It's also, like, people don't know how... It's al- it's amazing that people still don't know how it works at this point with so much information out there about how, you know, whatever, I, I wouldn't call her a celebrity, but a person of note is able to work with a stylist, and those clothes are loaned to her to wear for the ni- she's not using taxpayer dollars-

[laughs]

... for these, for these boots that cost 600... You know what I mean? It's just, it's crazy that that information to me is so readily available. Obviously, we know about it because it's part of our lives, but it's not like that's some sort of secret code. That's not Illuminati info that people don't have access to.

Yeah, but you know, we all need ammunition in the-

We choose to belie- yeah, we choose to know what we'd like to know, uh, that, that-

Mm-hmm

... puts ammo in our gun.

In the storage wars, we need all the ammo we can get-

[laughs]

... don't we?

Dude, I, yeah, let me tell-

Yep.

Yep. [laughs] Oh-

Mm-hmm

... dude, let me tell you about-

First yep of '26.

Let me tell you about Storage Wars, big dog, 'cause I had a, I had an interesting, uh-

Oh, you like my segue?

I, well, I love it.

Damn.

I love yours.

I threw out a bone, and this dog started sniffing.

So I was f- um, I'm not gonna say forced, but I was encouraged to go to our storage space here in New York to sort of do some tidying.

When you say our, you mean you and your wife-

Yeah, yeah

... not me, not our How Long Gone storage space that doesn't exist.

Yeah, not our How Long Gone. So we go to the-

Or does it?

We go to the storage space, which is actually fine, but the day before, I'm getting antsy, you know what I mean? It's like the... I feel like this, this break has been fucking six months long. The emails are not coming in.

It's been almost two weeks, holiday break. Just imagine if we had kids how fucked up it would be, right?

The, these, dude, the refreshing isn't doing anything. You know what I mean? Like, nothing new is coming up.

[laughs]

So I'm like, you know what?

The refreshing of your browser, you mean?

Exactly. So I'm like, all right-

Okay. Yeah

... fuck it. Yeah, you know what? I'll probably-

The drugs don't work

... it'd probably be good for me to go through my storage. Not only can I get rid of some stuff, but I could also maybe find some vintage gems from the Chris collection-

Oh

... that could be put back into ro- I spun it as a positive. But-

You're going mining for gold.

That... Wait, just you wait. So I-

[laughs]

... I'm like, oh, you know what? I remember going last time when we were moving, and it was quite difficult to see. It was, you know, it's dark. It, it's, it's a storage space. It's like the-

Sure

... the storage space itself has no lighting. It's temperature controlled, of course.

Ironically, you have many lamps in there, but none of them are-

[laughs] Yeah, dude. Yeah

... in working order right now.

Yeah. L- literally. Literally. So I'm like, you know, "Hey, Alex, I'm gonna run down to REI and get us some headlamps-

[laughs]

... for this kind of reorg."

Mm.

And she was like, "You're a fucking idiot. Like, we don't need headlamps." And I'm like-

Old spelunking ass

... and I'm like, "Honestly, I know this sounds crazy, but the PetzlFucking headlamp is 20 bucks, and I think it's gonna make our lives a lot easier because you can't... I need both hands.

Mm-hmm.

I can't have a flashlight. I ca- I can't have a flashlight. I can have a phone. And let me tell you what, Jason. These headlamps, one of the most genius things I've ever done.

Mm.

One of the most gen- I, I looked stupid, and that's fine. Uh, but I, I was able to organize and move at a pace that would've been virtually impossible without both hands free.

Okay. So you had one hand to film yourself, and then one hand to go through the T-shirts, and then all was well. Is that what you're saying?

[laughs] Exactly, yeah.

Okay.

I found three Wilco T-shirts I'd forgotten about.

Ooh.

Um, several pairs of-

That'll come in handy for-

Exactly

... down, down in Cabo San Lucas way. Maybe pull one for me, too, would you?

I think I'm gonna try to wear a different Wilco related shirt every day. [laughs]

[laughs] Unrelated to us playing the Wilco festival, just a normal-

Just a normal... I- if I can do seven days a week, um-

Okay

... but yeah. So I found some good stuff, but I just, the headlamp was the one of my greatest discoveries of this break, and how freeing up your hands, um, it, it just allowed me to work faster.

Hey, man.

And, and it... I was very happy that I, I had that thought.

As somebody who straps a GoPro camera to my chest like an ICE agent to film myself making fun little treats on Instagram Reels, I get it, brother.

I just, I had no-

Strap it on.

I had no idea. I was happy, once again, to strap it on.

How long? And you got one for you as well as Alex, right?

Yeah, we had matching Petzl headlamps.

And Petzl is the brand? Sorry to interrupt.

Yeah.

Okay.

P-E-T-Z-L. I, I don't know anything about that world, but Petzl seems like sort of a, a legacy bra- heritage brand.

They're the, they're the Miele of headlamps-

In this space

... is what you're saying

Yeah. In the-

Okay

... in the, in the outdoor sort of... I think they mostly make climbing related stuff. I don't think it's-

Mm-hmm

... it's like, I don't think they make like sleeping bags and shit. But I went to REI-

Okay

... on New Year's Day. And oh my God, it was fucking rammed. It was crazy.

Giving resolution, huh?

Well, it was so cold that people were copping the balaclavas. They had the smart wool-

Oh

... balaclavas right by the front door, and these Euros were fucking c- they couldn't resist.

I thought they got their indoor rock climbing gift certificate, and they had to go get their little-

[laughs] I just can't wait

... little, little chalk bag or something.

I need my approach shoes now.

[laughs]

Um, yeah. It was a funny, it was a f- 'cause New Year's Day is, is not... You know, it is, like, you know, all the like cool guy stores are closed, but the big box stuff is open 'cause people wanna be out.

Yeah.

You know? It's, it's, it's nice to, it's, it was nice to Citi Bike over to REI and feel like a normal person.

So, so Citi Biking in the frigid cold, in the frigidity of Los-

Yeah

... of [laughs] the frigidity of New York City.

It, it, it doesn't, it's not great, but if, honestly, if you got a hat and gloves, it's fine. It's not that bad.

Okay.

I, I can't do balaclava. It feels too... I can't do sheisty. It just, I'm too old.

No, you are too old. Uh, and I, I have a, I think it's a cashmere balaclava. I forgot who makes it. Is it Gant?

Yeah.

Maybe it's my Gant family.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it, I think it is.

I've worn it a couple times, and, uh, uh, as long, the cashmere part of it sort of removes the home invasion element of things. But it, it does unfortunately sort of negate the badass look of the, of the balaclava.

[laughs]

I end up looking like Ella Emhoff more than anything.

[laughs] I just wish I could wear one. I, yeah, I only wanna wear the Nike one to look like-

No shade, sis. I love you.

[laughs] To look like the, the president of Venezuela. But I know that I would be more of a Lauren Manoogian Ga- like, I would need... I, you're right. Like cashmere is the only way to do it, but then it's sorta like you're just a pussy.

Yeah. And you can't go, uh, real tree. You can't go hot pink. You can't... I mean-

Well, uh, well if, if they-

Everything you do will make you look, I mean, make me, not you-

No, you can speak, you can speak for both of us in this case [laughs]

... make me just look like... I, I, I'm, I'm more Central Cee than Skepta, you know what I mean?

I'm, I'm keeping an eye, though, on the worldwide web, 'cause when this Nocta Chrome Hearts stuff, I feel like there could be a balaclava in that collection that makes more sense for me. Um, but I, I haven't, I haven't... It, it's not out yet, so I'm still waiting, but I've got my alerts set of course.

Crody on God, I hope that comes true.

[laughs] On God.

Yes.

Um-

Wow. We're, I mean, so much has happened. Thank you for, um, your patience as we take our holiday break. We didn't want it to be this long, but that's just the way...

Well, it's kind of the way the ho- it's also like the way the holidays were situated this year, just calendar-wise.

Yeah. Chri- Christmas falling, uh, Christmas and New Year's falling in the middle of the week really shakes things up. In LA, for all my LA listeners, it's been raining basically every day since Christmas.

I thought you guys got a, I thought there was a little break, but maybe I was, maybe I'm seeing things.

I think, yeah, we had a, we had a couple days, but it never really... Things never really dried up, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Sure. Sure.

It's giving puddle.

So is it, is it bad, like dangerous vibes, or is it just annoying?

No, no, no. It's, it's just annoying. I mean, it, it's, it's a little dangerous depending on where in California you are. There, there's definitely shut down roads and landslides and flood, flooded freeways and stuff like that, but it's not really-

Yeah, yeah. Sure. It's not crazy.

There's no full death and destruction. We're all just walking around saying, "Bro, we really needed it." Um-

[laughs] I like that, I like that people say, "Bro, we really needed it," for like two weeks straight. It's like, well, I think we got what we needed, and now we should probably move on.

Look, you know, do you want... There, there's three events that happen at this time of the year, and it's gonna rain on two of them. You know, pick two. You got Christmas, New Year's Eve, and the W Magazine party.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, one of those is gonna be rain free, and I think this year we're gonna get W.

I mean, that's better to me than-

Brought to you by our friends at Christian Louboutin

... that's better to me than... I mean, Christmas is, you're sitting inside anyway.

Yeah.

Why not rain? Who gives a shit?

Mm-hmm. I'm just watching my Redskins. I don't care if it's raining outside. [laughs]

Hey bu- hey, buddy, TV works just the same. I don't care what God's doing out there.

[laughs]

I don't give a fuck, let me tell you that.

Yeah, man. I don't have no satellite dish no more.

So did you... I, I, I believe from some context clues that you gave us, you did go see the Marty Supreme movie-

[laughs]

... in the- in theaters. Um-

Yes, yes

... so I, I don't follow you on Letterboxd 'cause I'm a, a man. Um-

[laughs]

... but I would, I would love to hear, because I'm hearing a lot of, now that the, now that the sort of hubaloo is over-

Yeah

... I'm hearing a lot of-It's fine discourse

[laughs]

Which I feel like is something that a lot- That's what happens when anything gets so popular before anyone's able to digest it.

Mm-hmm.

It sort of, it might work for ticket sales or whatever, and, and chatter and press, but then when it comes down to it, a lot of people respond with, "It's fine." And I just wanna... I, I wondered if you're in the it's fine camp, or, "You know what, bro? I fucking loved it."

I, I think we are experiencing the collective post-Nut clarity after Marty Supreme drop. There were some signs that had me thrown off the scent, like our, our friend Mikey, a very well, well, uh, studied cinephile. You know, he knows more about film than anybody I know. He hates almost everything, and he was like, "Fuck, it really is that good." Like, "I really loved it."

Yeah, y'all think we're... You th- y'all think we're haters? You should see some people we hang out with.

[laughs]

You should see some people that we hang out with that don't have microphones.

[laughs]

Okay? 'Cause they're... You think we're bad. They're 10 times worse.

You should hear the stuff that our fa- friends who aren't famous say.

I can't... Yeah, I can't. If I- if you're outside with Mikey and Tim at a 7-Eleven, you're gonna hear way worse shit than we could ever say.

So he, you know, and, and for him to say that-

Big

... and, and he's like, "I h- I've hated, I hated every other Safdie movie," blah, blah, blah. So expectations were, were so high that they were almost non ex- you know, it was, it was almost just like we don't even know how to gauge what's going on here. So the, the... it was such a high expectation, so when you, when you go, it's, it's a fun movie. But y- I mean, I agree with all of it. It, it's, it's too long. It, it needs to be 38 minutes shorter. There's a couple parts that are really beautiful and really special. Um, Odessa Young, she is a good actor. I was like, damn, I, I used to not like her, and I'm like, damn, shorty just won me over. She's a really good actor. But then, you know, it's you're watching 38 minutes of, of ping pong, and it's-

I mean [laughs]

... cool to watch Timothee Chalamet get so good at ping pong. There's this hot Japanese deaf guy, and they play ping pong together a bunch. But you're like, "Okay, it's ping pong." You know? I'm-

Yeah, yeah. At a certain point-

"I got a babysitter for this," you know?

At a certain point... I, I just wonder... Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it's... Like, but I think that it's fine is actually a pretty positive response at this point-

[laughs]

... in our, in our dige-

Yeah

... digestion of culture. Like, I think it's fine is almost, uh, A+ at this stage. I really do. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

Three times a week, and I, I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, ha, Stateside.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's three times a week, and, and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say.

[laughs]

Give, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, "You're fine," you know, "Drink more water."

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly, as if-

That's about it

... as if I could drink more water, doctor. I, I, I don't get data. I don't get a game plan. I just get a pat on the ass and get out there and, and make it better. But SuperPower is doing something different. SuperPower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak. It's a simple blood draw, one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Uh, their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, and even environmental toxins. Ooh, ooh.

[laughs]

So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go. SuperPower is more comprehensive and advanced system out there.

Make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with SuperPower. For a limited time, How Long Gone listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to superpower.com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership. That is code HOWLONG, and after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about SuperPower. Do us a favor if you could and tell them How Long Gone sent you, and that'll just support us. Thanks.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris, and sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to s- be in the same room with them because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself, and that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over six million people globally are using it, and you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh. You know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, "Damn, I really am him." You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is better H-E-L-P .com/howlong.Mm, mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, w- I think overall it'll be great for cinema and theater. I really like the fact that I was in a movie theater in the week between Christmas and New Year's. I wa- I went to the Americana. Carolyn and I walked over to In-N-Out, had a burger, walked over. The movie theater was packed. There w- but... And there was no- nobody's clapping for Nicole Kidman commercials before anymore. If somebody does clap, other people shame them. "Boo, it's over."

I haven't been to a movie in so long that I forgot that was a thing.

[laughs]

God, that is so insane that that's a thing. Okay.

It w- it, it felt nice to be in a, in a big theater full of people reacting, laughing. You know, even if it was annoying and stupid, and even, even if you're like, "Why are you laughing at that part? Like, what the hell?" Even... It was, it was just nice to see, see it back. And I think we're so used to wanting to go to a movie theater. You pull up the little seating chart and you're like, "Oh, dude, it's empty. This is so sick. We can sit wherever we want." You know, maybe that's not necessarily a good thing, unless you're trying to get your Pee-Wee Herman on, which [laughs]

Sure.

Trying to stroke my shit to Marty. On, and on Marty there's this big fat guy who was, like, a, a friend of his. He rules. Great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Love big boys.

I read... Well, he was like a, he's like a full, like, street cast, like-

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. Like, lives in... I can't remember where. He, like, lives in Buffalo and is, like, a dispatcher. So it's like he's not at all an actor i, I believe.

Like, you look like a fat guy from the '50s, and he's like, "What?"

Finally I'll get my big call up-

Mm-hmm

... to the, to Hollywood. I mean, we'll see if he works again, but God bl- imagine that though. Imagine-

A star is born.

Imagine that though, like, being completely plucked from obscurity, getting to go do that, having the time of your life, and then, like, maybe it happens again, maybe it doesn't. It's still a pretty big W overall in the s- in the scheme of life. Speaking of big boys-

Also, really quick, sorry to interrupt you, but I want, I want big boy's look. I think that's gonna be the first cool look of 2026 once things warm up. Wife-beater with suspenders and some small reading glasses. I'm sure Davide is already there, but-

[laughs]

... you know, if you got the cojones to pull that look off, things are gonna go well for you.

If you have the cojones to pull that look off, please don't.

You could be 300 pounds too. You can be fatter than Tim Dillon and it's still gonna work for you.

I think the f- I think the f- I think the, I think it, actually, the fatter you are, the better it is.

The obesity is almost necessary.

Well, no, speaking of big boys, I just wanted to-

Just like Jelly Roll.

I just... Well, p-

[laughs]

Jelly Roll's getting some flak for-

So many fat people to talk about, so little time

Why is Jelly Roll... Why are people... I don't know why people are so mean to Jelly Roll. Honestly, I don't. I mean, obviously the music is bad, but everybody's music's bad. So it's like that doesn't matter.

No.

But, like, he... How come he g- how come he's getting shit on for using GLP-1s but I don't... You know, all these chicks get away with it. Why can't Jelly be healthy?

[laughs]

Why? Like, is it just 'cause of his name? Like, it, 'cause he's named after a donut you can't let him lose weight?

[laughs] I think... I mean, that is a big part of it. I think that his name is so tied to obesity that it is really hard to parse those two things out.

[laughs] You're like, "Is he?" [laughs]

But wait, hold on. I have to close my window. She's pouring again. Son of a bitch. Yeah, but y- uh, people just don't like it when people go from being a smiling, lovable fat guy to sunken cheekbones, looking like 007 Shake type shit.

But he doesn't look... But people... But, but that's the thing, he doesn't look that good. It's not like he looked, it's not like he's taking his shirt off and he looks like-

[laughs]

... Channing Tatum in fucking Magic Mike.

No, he doesn't-

Like-

No, it, it's looking like, it's looking like the Do- a Dune movie-

When you lo-

... with that stomach comes out

When you lose 100 pounds out of 400, you, it's amazing for your health and your, and your mental health, and I'm sure your, your general wellbeing. But you're not-

Mm-hmm

... like, it, it's not like you can't tell who it is. It's like he tr- I, I-

Sure

... to me it's not like some crazy transformation. But I guess Jelly did admit he was having a tough time with his little batty wife, and now that he lost weight, "Little Jelly's on chub"-

[laughs]

... is what, is what he's kinda been quoted as saying. So I'm happy for Jelly, and I'm sick of the, I'm sick of the, the mess talk about him.

Lil Jelly's on chub. [laughs]

[laughs] I'm just, I, I'm just, I just think he... I really don't understand why he gets... I, I just, I mean, like I said, I know his music is bad and I know the whole thing is insane. But-

Mm-hmm

... in the scheme of celebrity, to me, he's actually pretty harmless and seems to only want to do good, sort of. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like, I don't think-

In, in a way that... Yeah, but he's, he has a guilty conscious. He's righting wrongs. You know, he w- he was pardoned by the Nashville or, like, the Tennessee governor-

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

... for, like, armed robbery and drug... You know, like-

Yeah, that's fine. Nobody... Look, nobody died. He's fine.

[laughs]

If you don't kill any- if you don't kill anybody, get pardoned.

Armed robbery is a victimless crime. You are right, Chris.

I mean, I'm saying if nobody dies a- and-

Mm-hmm

... and, you know, it was 20 years ago or whatever, he was probably 18. I'm not saying it's good. Obviously it's bad.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

I'm just saying that I think as far as celebrities go, there's many more sinister celebrities for us to focus on than, than him.

I th- I, I think it's all karma. I think this is all Allah, the big man upstairs.

[laughs]

And I think he's like, "Look, Jelly, you did some bad stuff. You're not the worst guy in the world."

That's fair.

"It's fine. I'm gonna give you, uh, you know, 100 millions d- of dollars and, you know, worldwide fame and adoration. Change your whole life. Turn it around. It's gonna be so good. You know, there are gonna be a couple little speed bumps, and that's just what's gonna happen."

Like, I hope him and Bunnie XO make it.

[laughs]

I think they're a gr- I think they're a great couple. I think-

Is that the name of his lovely lady?

Yeah, Bunnie XO.

[laughs]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Sorry to be the one to tell you that, but yeah, that's-

We're gonna have to wait for the, the divorce court public hearing-

To find out-

... to find out what her real name is.

Well, I was... Not only we got... There are a lot of big guys in the news, because I, I also was sort of, um, flooded on my TL-

Big guys on the news today

... with, uh, these, these mask, this mask stuff with Judah Friedlander.

Mm.

Uh, mesh, mesh hat-wearing c- uh, comedian who was on... What was he on, 30 Rock?

He was on 30 Rock. He wore a, a different novelty mesh hat that had a funny little quirky message. It's very 2004.

One of the worst-dressed guys of all time for my money.

America's schlub.

But I guess his, his new cause is he's, like, immunocompromised. "I wear a mask everywhere. That's my entire life now."

Mm-hmm.

And, and John, beloved liberal Jon Stewart made fun of him? Is that what ha- Am I understanding this correctly?

He didn't make fun of him, but Judah Friedlander did not like that-Jon Stewart was sort of poking fun at people that are still, in 2025, 20- May 26, you know, masking in public and being, you know, super citizen social distancers.

Who doesn't make, who doesn't make fun of that? [laughs] I thought that was kinda sorta like-

[laughs]

I didn't know that... I mean, I guess Jon Stewart has a, a, a larger platform.

But, yeah, yeah, I think it's sort of like, you know, like you said, liberal guru, liberal god, Jon Stewart. That, it's unexpected for him to say something like that in the eyes of him versus, you know, if, if Shane Gillis is making a joke about it, it's not gonna be strange, and it's like, what are you gonna do, you know?

Yeah.

I'm just gonna make fun of you more. Whereas Jon Stewart, he feels as if he could get through to him, make him feel bad, and maybe make him apologize, whatever.

I don't think it worked, did it? I didn't see any of this. [laughs]

It did not work. [laughs]

Good.

No, it did not work.

Thank God. You know, Jon Stewart, as, as annoying as I find you, stand your ground on this.

Mm-hmm.

Because Judah Friedlander is, is a bee buzzing around your ear.

Mm.

You know? You can... Y- just, it's not, this is not... I just can't believe that people... I, I just, I don't know. That, that being your cause is so crazy to me. Like, just do it.

Yeah.

If you need to do it, j- just do it, it's all good. Fighting against a guy who's, I don't know, 100% more relevant than you is, is not a battle you're gonna l- [laughs] you're gonna win, no matter how much you love your mask.

Yeah, I mean, and I, I sympathize for people who are in that situation where they, where they truly are immunocompromised and their life is difficult, and they do have to wear a mask all the time. But also, that the ship has sailed, not to be a pessimist, but, like, wear the mask. No one's, no one's gonna make fun of you for wearing a mask on the train or-

No

... whatever. It's, it's normal. I'm on the plane next to somebody, someone's wearing a mask, I'm not, I don't give a shit. It doesn't matter. But also, you know, just realize that no one else is gonna wear a mask all the time just because of you. Like, we're-

Yeah

... society and humanity is past that, and it never was there.

Pe- people need to really understand that as a society-

Which is all bad. I don't think this is good at all, but that's just-

Oh, I do. I think, I think it needs to-

... the way the earth goes.

No, I think every, every, it's every man for himself out here, and once you recognize that and understand it, life is easier. It's not the best way it is, but that's the way it is, and that's how you gotta understand it.

Uh-huh.

No one gives a fuck about you.

Yeah. Other, a- a- as a survival method or a survival technique, you have to do that. Otherwise, you're gonna turn into a crazy cat lady, Judah Friedlander.

Every day you gotta remind yourself that no one gives a fuck about you, and that is the best thing that you can do to keep yourself-

For better or for worse. When it, w- in terms of-

Yeah

... hoping people care about you, and in terms of hoping people are not hating you right now.

Hating me. [laughs]

No one is thinking about you.

No one.

Good or bad.

Literally, no one cares about you at all, and that, that is definitely true, um, uh, for Judah Friedlander.

My DMs would say otherwise, but for you listeners-

[laughs]

... it is tough.

I also, um, in the food space-

Mm.

On one of the windiest days I've ever experienced, it felt like Michael Jackson getting blown into the fucking Hudson, I went to, um, that grocery store Meadow Lane that was a viral moment because the little bitchy gay owner, like, chronicled-

You went to Gay Erewhon?

I went to Gay Erewhon because, because-

[laughs]

It was like we were over there, we were going-

Everyone knew you?

There's the be- there's... One of the best stores in New York is right there. La Garçonne is right there. So we were like, "All right, let's go to La..." It was, it was just like, "Let's go," and then we went in. And I didn't realize, like, I thought it was, like, a grocery store. Like, I literally thought it was, like, Happier Grocer-

Mm

... Erewhon, whatever. It's literally, like, only prepackaged foods and a few, like, random vegetables. And, like, a, a, a full coffee bar and, like, merch, of course.

Okay.

But I am very disappointed to tell you-

[laughs] Oh

... that the product was absolutely slapping. [laughs]

Okay.

It's so good. And this is not... I had an overnight oats, best I've ever had in my life, and it was reminiscent of-

[laughs]

All my heads, all my heads-

Overnight oats

... all my heads will know that if you lived in New York in, you know, whatever, 2012, Juice Press had this amazing raw oatmeal.

Mm-hmm.

And they would serve it to you with a side of berry compote. I would get two.

[laughs]

And just so I could have the perfect bite every time. And-

You deserve it

... this is... Exactly. [laughs] This is the most reminiscent of that that I have found since Juice Press went down the shitter.

[laughs]

And it, it just, it flooded m- my stomach and brain with nostalgia. It was delicious. It had the right berry to peanut butter to oat ratio. Um-

Okay

... but Alex had the chicken salad, which is, like, the hit there, one of, one of the hits, and she claimed, which I didn't know this about her, that she is a chicken salad aficionado. You know, she, "I, I like this one."

Mm.

"I like that one. I like that one."

Interesting.

She cracks it open, has one bite. She's like, "Oh, damn. Oh, wow, this is unbelievable." And these are obviously two small things, you know what I mean? These are two r- relatively small things.

Uh-huh.

It was $25 USD for these two items.

It, it was chicken sa- it was just, like, a container of chicken salad, or was it a sandwich or a wrap or something?

A small... No, I'm sorry, a small container of chicken salad-

Okay

... that, that you, that she ate with a fork and then maybe put a little on a saltine.

So chicken, chicken was 14, oats were 11, something like that?

Something like that. But, but we didn't get the, we didn't get the, obviously the chicken f- f- fingers are a big hit as well. We didn't get that because-

The nuggets or the tenders.

Yeah, but it was a... I, I ha- I was very disappointed to, uh, find how good it was.

Uh-huh.

And I don't wanna go back, but I can't make any promises now.

Okay. How was the, uh, how was the crowd?

Awful. Oh, the worst. Like, like-

[laughs]

... an- the most annoying girl you've ever met with her mom, her rich mom in town for Christmas spending $500-

Mm

... on prepackaged food that, that it would be impossible to eat before it goes bad.

Right, right, right. There, there's no way in hell that mom from Louisville is gonna have a collard green tuna wrap-

[laughs]

... before that thing starts wilting.

Yeah, y- yeah, l- literally.

Okay. So the overnight oats are peanut butter and jelly, is that correct?

Basically, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Which I think is a nice-

Okay

... I think that's a, obviously, classic combo.

You know, this, this is feeling like the, uh, the Corner... Is it Corner-

Corner Store?

Yeah, Corner Store. Like-Sort of like a, a cross between Corner Store and Erewhon where-

Yeah

... we all need to be eating foods that, that children eat, but for adults, like-

They had some more grown-up-

Chicken nuggets and peanut butter and jelly and things like that

They had some more grown-up stuff, I will say.

I'm sure, yeah. Okay

They had some, they had some, like, you know, like noodle bowls and rice. They-

Miso black cod-

Yeah

... salmon.

They had, they had some stu- other stuff, but it was just not the right... I'd already eaten lunch, so I wasn't interested in any of the larger-

How's the packaging? I feel like that's gonna be the big, a big thing.

Pretty normal, but good. Like, it wasn't, it wasn't anything... They didn't innovate in the space, but it was, it was-

Mm-hmm

... serviceable, and definitely better than, like, y- a shit, you know, Whole Foods or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The quality was def- definitely better. But I was, I was quite impressed with the, the stuff that I got, and I, I'm, I'm not afraid to admit that publicly.

Okay. Meadow Lane. It, it doesn't matter that it sounds like a nursing home?

No, it doesn't [laughs]

Or a funeral-

It's... Yeah [laughs]

... or a funeral home? [laughs]

Did you get cremated there? No, I got some overnight oats, actually.

[laughs]

It was delicious. Well, it's funny 'cause we went to... So Conrad is... Conrad and, and his girlfriend Ella are in town to, to... for the industry premiere this week, and we went to Bor-

Mm.

We went to Borgo last night.

Sad I'm missing that premiere.

And, um, Borgo was delicious. I'd never had, like, a real meal there. Anyway, we were at dinner, and we were telling them about Meadow Lane, and he was like, "Oh, I g- I guess I gotta go." [laughs]

Mm-hmm.

He already... He, he texted me today being like, "Bro, this shit is fire. [laughs] This shit is so good." And I'm like, "Yeah, I know." It's, but it's, it's like, imagine coming here... 'Cause, 'cause London has, like, a, a, a new store that Alex Eagle opened in, in 180 The Strand that's, like, their Erewhon that people are, like, going crazy about. But, like-

Yeah

... it's, it's not... There's one. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like, it's, it's crazy how it's just such a specific American sort of, like, certain neighborhood, upper middle cla- It's just such a funny thing when you think about it from, through the eyes of someone who doesn't live in New York or LA.

Yeah. I think, I think in the next coming years it is gonna go widespread all over the country, though, because it's, it's, like, a great way for us to experience luxury, high-end items that are still affordable. You know, you could go and spend $20 and be a part of the top upper echelon.

Totally.

You can record your review of it. You know, you get your likes and your shares, and you get to have a reason to put clothes on. As soon as you just keep inventing things like this, that's, that's, like, the secret to making it in our, you know, post-apocalyptical world is just like, what is a thing that people will pay $20 for just to say you did it at the, you know, in the chat room or whatever-

No, for sure

... just to have something to talk about.

No, I agree. I agree. I just-

Marty Supreme or-

Yeah

... or Meadow Lane.

What is Revolve Man, Jason? It's... Oh, funny you ask.

What's a Revolve Man?

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Genuinely, yeah. It's one of those things. We're all busy. Let's say we got an important dinner coming up at the end of the week. It's Tuesday. You're working every single day. You don't have time to go shopping and try clothes on and blah, blah, blah, or even just browse. You know, Revolve, it's all there. It's all curated for what you want, and then you click buy, you go to bed. Couple days later, that shows up in packaging that's a little nicer than the, the other places you're buying clothes from, and you've got a nice look for the big night out. And then you're like, "Wait a minute, I don't even have to return this because I enjoy this clothing and I wanna wear it again another time," versus all those dumb other websites. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last minute that actually works, Revolve Man always has it. Go to revolveman.com/howlong to shop and use code HOWLONG for 15% off your order. Free two-day shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That is revolve.com/howlong, and use the promo code HOWLONG to get 15% off your entire order. Offer ends soon. Don't sleep on it. And you don't need clothes too. You can get just, you know, a cool candle or an incense gift for a baby shower, whatever it is. Revolve.com/howlong.

Hi, Talkhouse network listeners. It's your old friend Nels Cline from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer, and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan; Chautauqua, New York; Lafayette, New York; Bethlehem, Pennsylvania; Vienna, Virginia; Forest Hills, New York; Portland, Maine; Tulsa, Oklahoma; Memphis, Tennessee; LaGrange, Georgia; Charleston, South Carolina; Virginia Beach, Virginia; Wheeling, West Virginia; and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson, that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilcoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer.

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I also think it's so wide... Like, that sort of, uh, trend or, like, life s- approach to life is, like, so available on the internet that it c- it, like... Yeah, you go to fucking... You can go to a third, fourth-tier city and it would still kinda work.

Yeah.

Like, I don't think it's that ri- I don't think it's that risky. I mean, obviously the $20 New York price point would have to be 14 or whatever, but that's still-

Mm-hmm

... twice as much-

Yeah

... as it should be [laughs] or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. Of course.

You know? Y- you know what I, you know what I mean?

Still double the Piggly Wiggly.

But Erewhon, I, I'm realizing that Erewhon is also just an, a pretty great grocery store if money is no object.Like as far as like what you can get in one place, where all of these places are a little more like I went to get the picture

I, I guess depending on what type of shopper you are. If... I don't think they have good animal protein access.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure.

And the produce-

But I just-

... is okay. It's not, um, it's not the best.

But if, if you're, if you don't-

But if you just wanna like I wanna go spend $28 on a box of sweet potato chips, mamma mia. Or you want a, a smoothie or whatever it is, then you are in heaven.

I'm just saying I don't think people, I don't think people actually... I think what people think is good is unfortunately [laughs] based on price and experience and not actual-

Oh, yeah

... is it good?

Of course.

Is it good or not?

Of course.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't... Like, I, I couldn't tell the difference between avocado I got at four different places.

It's, it's like the average Rolex buyer, you know what I mean? They don't give a fuck about all the whatever this and that and the Mike Nouveau stuff. They're like, "That watch is dope. I'm gonna buy it." And every watch person's like, "What the fu- you bought that one? You... Oh, you bought the fucking Starbucks one?"

Yeah. [laughs]

"Wow."

You can't let anybody, you can't let... Yeah, no one can enjoy anything, 'cause there's always someone who knows more and will tell you that y- whatever you got is not the best one.

Which is sort of the basis of our podcast. So we shan't-

I mean, I did-

... uh-

I did see a watch-

... throw stones

... I did see a watch I liked, which is unfortunate.

Oh.

I know.

Is it under or over 10,000?

Oh, way, way over.

[laughs]

Way over. It was stupid. Like Mike, [laughs] Mike and his boy Juliet, they bo- I think they both... They're, it's some Patek but it's like pink, is what they... It's like it's not actually pink, but it like looks pink sort of.

Mm. Mm.

And there, there's two. They both had one but from different eras. But yeah, I don't know, it's like 50 grand.

Wow, you sounds like you're saying Lil Uzi lyrics.

[laughs] Pink Patek.

My Patek pink.

I, I think- [laughs]

My Pate- I'm looking at a lot of pink Pateks right now. It looks bomb.

It's really nice. It was really nice, and it's like a little bit dressy. But I still... I mean, I s- I would never spend $50,000 on a watch. That's just too crazy.

Mm-hmm.

It's just too crazy.

Is it a rose gold? This is nice.

Yeah, it is. It is. But the, the face is also like-

Is it Cameron pink or is it like rich old lady pink?

No, no, no, it's very subtle.

Okay, got it.

No, it's very subtle. It's like barely... You can barely... Like, I think if they didn't refer to it as that-

Mm

... you wouldn't even think of it that way.

Oh, okay.

It's, it's rose gold. But I've-

Okay

... I've never, uh, thought about rose gold in my entire life.

Okay. Well, we do a good this year, Chris. We're gonna ask God for the Pepto-Patek.

I've already asked him, but he's not responding right now.

Oh, yeah. [laughs]

He had an out of office on.

You know, it was just, it was just Christmas, bro. Give it a week.

[laughs] Can you just-

Come on, bro

... give it a fucking week? Did you... Also, something I've seen a lot online and have done no research about is the-

Also the basis of our podcast

... the Bill Simmons movie list that everybody's freaking out about. Like Bill Simmons-

Oh

... did something funny, or it's because the, the nerds that like movies too much couldn't believe that he just liked rom-coms. Is that the basis of it?

I saw, I saw a couple things where every- there was like a clip of him, and they were like listing the top 25 movies or whatever. And he named Limitless as number 16, and I guess if you are a, a film-

Yeah

... enjoyer, that is enough to bring snot out of your nose.

[laughs]

But I don't... Have I seen Limitl- oh, okay, Limitless-

I don't even know what that is. I mean, I know the name. I know, I know what it is, but I don't know any-

It's an American science fiction thriller starring Bradley Cooper and Robert De Niro from 2011.

Don't let, don't let De Niro and Coop get in the room together. You're about to have a-

[laughs]

... one fucked up little sandwich.

I saw, uh, another clip from that conversation where Bill Simmons says Mila Kunis is a 15 out of 10 on the cute scale.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Honestly, everything that Bill Simmons is doing right now is, as a ringer, as a known ringer hater, Bill's bringing me back-

[laughs]

... with this stuff. This is actually cool. This is actually cool. This isn't fucking dorks debating, you know, uh, box office sales or plot lines. This is a guy just keeping it a stack.

Maybe, maybe old Bill is like, "You know, the Vuori money is getting to my head. We had a 2026, you know, powwow with the, with the C-suite. 20% more ba- Barstool. You know, Barstool's eating our lunch right now. They're fucking killing us. We're kind of the bitch compared to them. Let's start talking about how chicks are hot a little bit. Let's start talking-"

I think, I, I think-

But then when Bill does it-

[laughs] Yes

... it's not like, "Dude, Sydney Sweeney has fucking dope ass tits."

[laughs]

He says, "Mila Kunis is 15 out of 10 on the cutie scale."

Saying [laughs] saying Mila Kunis is a 15 out of 10 on the cutie scale is, is...

[laughs]

I don't even think that's g- I don't... That's gay. Like, that's, that's not even like commenting.

[laughs]

That's not even gonna bother anyone.

It's like something that your, your mom says about their new grandchild.

Yeah. That, that is not, that is not-

Not a chick that you wanna have sex with

He is not sexualizing Mila whatsoever. It's very, that's very like-

[laughs]

I think that is really who he is, is the, is the thing, which I, I appreciate the honesty.

Yeah. Let it out. Let it out. I mean, she is a 15 out of 10 on the cutie scale, you know what I mean, Bill?

[laughs] I-

You ain't wrong

... I can't disagree.

Um, let's see here. Yeah, Sprinkles has closed. RIP. I had it just a couple weeks ago, actually-

Is that true?

... down in Newport. Yes. All, all the, the ATM, cupcake ATM gone.

I know. I actually, I, I did hear this, and I... Do you think it's... Or, I mean, the cupcake era has been dead for a long time, but do you think... I, I kind of thought maybe the ATM would survive because of it's still a novelty and people still hate talking to other people. But do you think it's because now we can go to a bakery and wait in a line, and I'd rather do that than get-

[laughs]

... than get a cupcake super quick and just gobble it down?

Yeah, it is interesting. It seems like it's one of those things that rich older ladies like, you know, like... I'm trying to think of who a good... Who's like a, a 50-year-old comedian woman?

I mean, I, I, I'm only g- I can only think of Kathy Griffin, my queen, but-

Okay.

[laughs]

Kathy Griffin, good example. Kathy Griffin should... privately subsidize-

[laughs]

A Sprinkles ATM that she has, like-

It's, well, it could be like when-

... VIP access to

... when Tommy Lee had the Starbucks in his house.

Right.

We could do, it could be something like that, where, like, one of the Kardashians-

Yeah, Kardashians put the Starbucks drive-thru in there, or the, or the Starbucks drive-thru that exists in the tunnels underneath Los Angeles that only celebrities can access.

[laughs] Sure.

But, like-

I forgot, yeah

... um, there's a Chinese restaurant in LA called Genghis Cohen, and it's, you know, it's, it's had ups and downs. It reopened. It moved locations, blah, blah, blah. I think it's doing good now, but I think for a while, just rich, older Jewish ladies who were ordering it to their house in Calabasas or whatever-

Right, were keeping this shit afloat.

Yeah, like, I, I heard Barbra Streisand had a standing order every Sunday. They would drive it to her house in Malibu. Like, Kathy Griffin or somebody, probably somebody fatter, should be keeping just one... And they could do it all animated with, with AI and robots, and then the little, the little small cart that drives down S- Santa Monica Boulevard brings the cupcakes to your house.

That's a nice... I like this. I think this is a good... I agree. I think that Sprinkles, I mean, the IP is so valuable.

Or at least Sprinkles should release the Sprinkles files. Release the recipes.

Right. [laughs]

[laughs]

I, I don't know if I've ever-

It should be open, open source code.

I don't... [laughs] I, I don't know if I've ever had a Sprinkles, but are they in fact banging?

What?

I don't know if I have, honestly. Maybe once back in the day.

It's funny, Ryan O'Connell, friend of the show, he was, he was doing a, like, a five-page Instagram story rant sort of-

[laughs]

... memorializing Sprinkles, and he was like, he, he... You know, I'm not gonna do his, his voice 'cause it's too insane, but he was like, at, at, at his most, you know, his lowest desper- desperana phase of his life, living somewhere in, like, West Hollywood. He said six days a week, he would walk-

[laughs]

... to Chipotle when Chipotle first came out and was, like, really hot. You know what I mean?

When Chipot- when Chipotle dropped. [laughs]

Chipotle was Meadowlaning.

Okay.

You have to put yourself in those shoes.

Okay.

Put yourself in his w-

I'm there. I'm there mentally. I'm, I'm getting there

... in, in his checkerboard Vans slip-ons or whatever he was wearing, walks to Chipotle for lunch, has a, you know, a carne asada burrito with extra cheese and sour cream or whatever he's ordering. Then walks to Sprinkles, where he gets four cupcakes.

Oh my God. [laughs]

And eats two of them on the walk home, and then saves two to eat later in the day. He said he did this six days a week-

[laughs]

... and was rail thin.

I was gonna say, I've known Ryan long enough-

So what drugs was he on?

That doesn't sound like... That sounds like genetics. That doesn't, that doesn't... That sounds like something only God could do. Like, age, age and genetics. Age and genetics.

That is an otter doing 6,000 calories a day.

And he wasn't working out at that point.

Mm-mm.

I don't think his journey had started yet. That is, that is-

Other than jacking off

... that is really impressive, though.

It is.

I've never heard of anything like that. But you're saying that Sprinkles, is that it? Are you saying-

It wa- it wa- it was good. I mean, I w- I would only get the, uh, the red velvet, I think. You know, the, the king of cupcakes.

But did they make crazy... Did they go crumble mode and start making fucked up, like-

No, that's the thing. They, they had a very, they s- it was, it was the Agnes B. of cupcakes.

[laughs]

Just a, a, a neatly appointed-

Traditional

... selection of basics. You want chocolate with vanilla? You want vanilla with chocolate? You know? It's-

Yeah, that's, yeah, it's just-

But, but everything was, like, neat to a pin, minimal frosting adornment. It w- but, but the right amount of frosting, the right temperature, the right consistency.

And do you think that the, the, the ATM of it all, they had that so dialed that that didn't affect the quality of the, of the cake?

Oh, it affected the quality. I mean, it could have made it better, the way these kids are all on fentanyl nowadays, right?

Goddammit. Aren't you... Bro, I was thinking about folk- smoking a fentanyl patch like Silver Jews just the other day.

[laughs]

I was like, "Man, you know what? I'm just gonna have a cupcake instead."

I'm folded in the back room at Sprinkles.

[laughs] Dude, I just, I, I've... That sounds... Damn, now I wanna have one. But I think they did that kinda thing where they, like, shut down overnight and all stores are closed, like, January 1st type vibe.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I think it, I think it was like, "We're outta here." There's no, like-

All right, like Horses.

Yeah, last week. Yeah, dude, the ru- are the, are the rumors true? Can we confirm that, uh, enemy of the show, Horses, has closed?

Uh, I don't, I don't... I can't confirm that 100%, but that's what, that's what the streets are saying.

The streets are saying Horses let the employees know it's over and it's a wrap, and the, the doors are closed. And I'm sure-

Oh no, it's over.

[laughs]

I, I could've saved them. I wish I could've saved them.

I mean, I, I bet if we went on Resy right now, we could tell if they were closed. You know what I mean?

My, my... I know, I, I looked on, um... Or I told my brother about it since he's in the, uh, the real, the real estate game, and I was like, "What do you, what do you know about this?" And he sent a screenshot of the Google-

Yeah, like res- yeah

... you know, the Google Maps thing, and it said, and it said in the red letters, you know-

Oh

... "This location is currently closed."

Okay, so it's a wrap. It's a wrap. Well, you know, [coughs] too bad.

Look, not every horse can be tamed, brother.

That, hopefully... You know, it would be cool if it just turned into a bar like it used to be. I had some great-

Yeah

... I had some great nights.

Turn it, turn it back to the Pikee.

I had great nights in Coach & Horses. Like, I had a lot of great... That was, like, you could walk there from The Standard if you needed to.

Mm-hmm.

It was dark enough to do a bag at the table.

Yeah.

You know? It was, that's, that's what a bar... It was, it was, it was what it... The Pikee I know was good, but it was like a fake dive bar. You know what I mean? Which is always-

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

... tough to pull off. But I think it should go back... I mean, I know no one's drinking anymore, so I guess that's, that's tough.

And, and real estate, especially, you know, in, on Sunset Boulevard in WeHo, you're gonna have to sell a lot more than just 17 Guinnesses a day-

Yeah, yeah

... to keep the lights on.

There's almo- there's only so many Gs getting split to keep the [laughs] to keep the lights on.

The profit margins on Yorkshire pud, not ideal.

It's just razor thin. Razor thin.

I... What, so what did, what did you do on, uh, on New Year's Eve, though?

I just went to Eric and Cassie's house. I didn't do, I didn't ... We just had, we just, like, went over there and hung out basically, and left at 12:30.

Okay.

I couldn't-

Okay

... the DARA was DJ-ing, and I, we were in Fort G- or Carroll Gar- I don't know, somewhere in Brooklyn, and I was like, "I can't. I can't go all the way to the East Village, uh-

No

... for 30 minutes." And I, I, I don't know. I made the r- I think, I think unfortunately I've officially hit the age where I gotta just stay in.

[laughs]

I gotta just, I gotta stay in or I gotta be out of town.

Right, right, right. I've, I've noticed a lot of people have gone out of town this break, more than, more than normal I think.

Yeah. It's just, it's just the, it's-

Or maybe I'm noticing it because I didn't go.

You're not. [laughs] Well, I think it's a little bit like we are ... I don't know. I feel like when you can go out of town whenever you want, I'm a little bit like, "Do I need to go out of town at the most expensive time-

Mm-hmm

... when every other person on earth is out of town?" 'Cause New York is dead in a nice way.

Mm-hmm.

Like, New York is like, there's no one on the streets except tourists. It's pretty mellow. The gym is quiet. It is nice.

So, so traveling for the holidays, unless of course we have a, uh, we're in the Gulf Stream, uh, is sort of bridge and tunnel amateur night-

Not even-

... amateur hour

... not even that. Not even that. I'm just saying that I'm in a fortunate enough position where if I need to go-

Mm-hmm

... anywhere, I can just go, and it's not gonna be triple the price.

Bro says, "I'll change the weather."

I'll change the weather, bro. It's nothing. I'm a sun chaser.

Okay.

I'm gonna be down in the, I'm gonna be down in the Keys growing my beard out, you know?

Okay.

I don't need to do this. But what did you do?

Um, went over to Al's house and, you know, chewed on a couple Blue Punishers, had some bubbles.

Is Blue Punisher a dick pill, or is that ecstasy?

Ecstasy.

Got it. [laughs] Got it.

Quite the opposite of a dick pill. [laughs]

[laughs]

Uh-

Well, that sound, that sounds ... I mean, that's basically what, that's kinda what we did too.

No, that was good, but that was ... We were pre-gaming and we went to a party-

Oh

... which ended up sort of being the gay comedian house party.

I don't, I don't know that many gay comedians.

It w- it, it was Whitmer Thomas, me, and-

Well, he is gay c- technically

... Whitmer Thomas, me, and then 100 gay guys.

I love Whit. Shout out to Whit, man. I need to tap in with him. One of the great-

Very good scene with-

One of the greats. One of the greats, honestly

... one of my fav. He's been killing it. I think, I feel like he's becoming ... I feel like his acting dance card is getting built up.

He's just, he's just so actually funny and actually cool, and I feel like that's who deserves to succeed in Hollywood.

And has a real unique look and is truly comfortable in his skin.

Yes, yes, exactly.

Does not give a fuck. You know, he's ... It's all there. So 2026, we're bullish on Whit. Take that to Poly Market. But you know, Bowen and, and all, you know, the, the gang was all there.

Did you con- did you get confronted by any of these guys?

[sighs]

Not for sex. I just mean, like, for talking shit.

No. No, no, no. Of course not.

[laughs] I don't know, bro.

I'm never gonna g- no, no, no. I mean, I wish they would. Fr- a friend of the show, Sam Taggart from, uh, Strady- Stracio Lab, Stradio Lab, he was there with his man, and it w- I had a funny run-in. Sam and I were talking about LA restaurants and how he's acclimating moving from New York to LA and, and this and that, and then his husband came over and he was like, "Yeah, you know, it's been hard finding restaurants, but do you know this podcast How Long Gone?

[laughs]

Like, they talk about food, restaurants in LA, and you know, that's been, like, a good guide for me so far."

Dude, what?

And Sam was like-

That's so awesome

... "Honey, this is How Long Gone."

Dude, that is so awesome.

And then we all, we had quite a laugh for, for a while. But it, I mean, I like those interactio- I mean, it was the first gay guy listener of our podcast who'd never bothered to see what I look like, what we look like.

Yeah. People ... And even when we did, when we posted our, our-

All that is to say, I'm just so proud of myself for a guy listening to me podcast that's just like, "We like fucking with you regard-" you know, sight unseen in a Love is Blind kind of way.

I think most people are more interested in what we have to say than looking at us, and I think that's proven-

Wrong

... when you do this. When we put up that thing, people ... Like, several comments are like, "Oh, I can't believe. It's crazy to see what they look like." I'm like, it's not like it's a sec- it's not like we're, it's not like we're Ion Pack in 2017. We, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty easy to s-

You can, you can Google our name and find hundreds or thousands of photos of us.

I just w- I, that's what I mean. I just would never-

You go to my IG, it's nothing but selfies

... I feel like I know, I feel like I know what everybody looks like.

Yeah.

Like, I, I've ... You know, for better or worse.

True dat. True dat. But yeah, and-

I guess you can avoid it if you want, which is, is nice. That's the beauty of podcasting.

[sighs] Yeah. Um, and speaking of our, our YouTube video special, thank you all for, for streaming it and sharing it and all that stuff. We had a lot of fun doing it and, and hopefully we'll be doing some more stuff like that in the coming year.

Not hopefully. We're doing it, and it's gonna be a-

Ooh

... it's gonna be a pain in the ass, but we're gonna deliver, baby. And I can't wait. I, I really had a good time doing that, and I think once we f- you know, we'll have a little more time, a little more structure to g-

Mm-hmm

... 'cause that, we, we d- we just had to get it done. It was a very get it done situation. But I wanted to say that-

Yeah, we did a ... That was our first How Long Gone sprint.

[laughs] Yeah, exactly.

And I kept f- you know, for, for one week we had to, to shoot, edit, upload, blah, blah, blah, and that week happened to be Christmas week, so you know, not everyone ... I w- I was n- I was offline, so I kept repeating the mantra in my head, "Finished is better than perfect," and, uh, it was a good exercise. I feel g- I feel good.

Where did you... Wow, that's cool. Did you learn that from Rick Rubin's book, or is that something that-

[laughs]

... people say? I've never heard that one.

No. For some reason, people have been telling me that phrase all my entire life-

[laughs]

... over and over again. So [laughs]

The people just see me and they say that to me, and I just don't, I've just taken it to heart.

Probably they ask me if I play basketball and then they tell me per-

Dude, that's so funny

... "Done is better than perfect" all the time.

Dude, [laughs] we gotta start just saying that to people for no reason.

[laughs]

"Hey, look, just so you know, done is better than perfect." You know what I mean? Sometimes you gotta-

You go, yeah, you go to the homie's art show, you know, up in the Gulf.

[laughs]

"So what do you think, bro?" "Hey, I mean, I'm just, it's really impressive you got it up on the walls before the deadline."

[laughs] Look, I'm just happy you got it done 'cause I know this thing. The, the invitation went out, and you know, it was sort of a must, must finish-

Yeah

... type situation.

Yeah. Art, art, art is n- you're never done with the piece. You know what I mean? [laughs] Right?

But I had that issue. When we, when we did that, I, um-I went to the coffee shop in Burbank that was near the studio.

Ooh.

And-

Uh-huh

... I was ... I love doing that. I love taking the orders, hitting the coffee shop. It makes me feel like I'm useful. I, I like doing that.

Get your little gofer, gofer Chris on.

So I go to this coffee shop and, and it was, like, the most they, them, blue hair, Phoebe Bridgers coffee shop I've ever seen.

Oh.

In the coffee shop they had a vending machine for basically science fiction novels. Like, that's how dorky - I'd never seen any-

[laughs]

I literally, this, this-

This is, this was some, this was a slice of Asheville, North Carolina in the-

Very Asheville

... greater Los Angeles area.

It wa- ve- very Asheville. It was a c- it was a full size vending machine. It had books in it. You know what I mean?

[laughs]

It wasn't like i- it wasn't like it was a sprinkles. It was big.

And it, and it was erotic YA sci-fi?

It was very erotic YA sci-fi, and I was just -the whole thing was stunning to me. And they - I was just look - I, like, was literally - there was a woman in the corner who was, like, there to put tinsel in girls' hair. Like, you would go pay her.

[laughs]

It was all insane. It was all insane.

[laughs]

But then I, I, I d- I put the, I put the coffees-

It, it feels like, like in the olden times when you get off the, the train, you know, in some random city. And, but it, but the city is run by lesbians and it's just, you know-

Dude, it was, it was c- it was every-

... showing their different wares

... every corner I looked in I was like, "This is crazy." And then I was like, "I need to go to the bathroom. I'm gonna wait. I don't wanna go in the bathroom here. I feel like I'd see something I don't need to see."

[laughs]

And it would, it would just be too mu- th- I can't open another door here, basically.

You have to do a toilet acknowledgement before you use it.

But I've- [laughs]

[laughs] Oh, shit.

This is from the, this is from the Toto tribe. I, so I get the coffees. And you know, it's a full holder or whatever, you know.

Yeah. The little recycled-

Yeah

... drink caddy tray.

You, oh, you know, you know this shit was recycled.

[laughs]

So I put it, I put it in the front seat of the rental car.

[laughs]

And I'm very careful. And all these iced coffees are full to the brim and I'm like, I'm pretty pleased with myself 'cause I'm like, a li- I'm a little bit clumsy if I'm keeping it a buck. And I'm, you know, I'm wearing a suit. So I'd, I'm like, "Wow, I really can't spill. That would fuck with continuity."

[laughs] Yeah.

And-

You, you should have the, you should have the little makeup artist bib around your neck, right?

I should've been wearing a full robe.

Mm-hmm.

So I get to, I get back, I park the car. I go around to get the coffee out of the passenger seat, 'cause that's the safest ... You know, I feel I'm not gonna reach over it and juggle it.

Mm-hmm.

I sit it on top of the car.

Your core strength isn't there. Go ahead.

I - definitely not. I s- I, I s- I s- for, for one millisecond place it on the roof of the car so I can close the door, lock up, and b- and bring everybody's treats inside. One iced coffee tumbles off, explodes onto the floor, onto the concrete. I jump back-

Mm-hmm

... and narrowly avoid ruining the whole thing by staining my tie. I was, I ... Not, not a single drop of this 16 ounce iced coffee got on my c- my clothing or my shoes.

Mm-hmm.

And I was, I, I looked at that as a sign that my agility and my athleticism is where I want it to be.

Your cat-like reflexes have only been increased with the Chinese peptides coursing through your thick veins.

I was, I was, I was-

And you, but I think more importantly you think with the mental clarity ... That, well, that's the other thing. You're not thinking. Your body is reacting-

[laughs]

... before you think. In the same way that if I drop my phone I instinctively kick it or put my foot underneath it to, to shelter the blow.

Oh. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

And that's how I'm able to go caseless despite not being a millionaire.

[laughs]

And you were thinking, or, like, famously to no one I was riding my bicycle. I was like 22 or something like that, riding my bicycle down Hollywood Boulevard, fixed gear cycle, and a taxi cab cuts me off. I crash into it, go flying over my handlebars, over the taxi, landing in the middle, you know, by the Tommy Burger on the freeway on Hollywood Boulevard.

Oh no. Oh, God.

I had, you know, I had less than $1,000 to my name but I had a MacBook in my backpack. And if-

Of course

... something happened to that my life is essentially over. And I, instead of protecting my body, skull, bones or whatever, I, I instinctively rolled to protect my laptop. The only thing I cared about was not breaking my laptop. And for you-

Your Case Logic-

... it's the same story

... was, could only do so much.

[laughs]

And you had to-

My WSC-

Yes. [laughs]

... laptop sleeve is only gonna do so much, Chris.

Jason said, "I'm willing to sacrifice my destroyed body," but this, this, this WSC Case Logic collab is not gonna save the black MacBook.

[laughs]

Oh, man. That's ... I mean-

Signed by Stretch Armstrong. It's not a big deal.

No, [laughs] not to stunt. Yeah. I, I was just-

But you did the same thing with your, with your tie.

Exactly. I did not want ... It was a new tie. I'd gotten it at Beams in Japan. I was really happy with it. And if I would've spilled coffee on it, it really would've ruined -we would've had to talk about it.

I think that's the first ... Yeah, yeah, you would have -we would -which could be a nice little C story arc-

No. It would've be- no, it, it would've been great. It would've been fine.

Mm.

But I, that's what I was thinking of.

That's ... Well, what this means, Chris, is you are now a bonafide content creator, where you're willing to sacrifice everything before the continuity.

Yeah. That, that's - yeah, exactly. That's why [laughs] Aidan Ross' family hates him.

I'm basically podcasting with Stanley freaking Kubrick.

[laughs]

Um, and speaking of ties, you gave me a great tie for Christmas. It is a blue and green How Long Gone diagonal striped necktie. I haven't had a chance to wear it yet. I guess I'll wear it to the Podcast Awards next year or whatever.

Yeah. Save that. It's-

But it's an Anderson and Sheppard-

Well, I saw that kind of-

... beautiful piece

... I c- it came up on my, uh, I was -I don't know what I was doing. I think I was just looking at the Anderson and Sheppard website, which says a lot about me.

[laughs]

And I was like, "Oh."

Just, just scrolling on a weekday.

"Oh, wow. They, they made a How Long Gone rep stripe. I should, I should get this for Jason." And it, and it, and it, 'cause it just feels like I ... We can't both wear it. That's too much. You know what I mean?

Right.

So f- it felt like a great-

Chris Black again not defeating the great gift giver allegations.

Uh, no. It just felt like a, it felt like something that, that one of us needed to have.

Yeah.

It was one of those situations where somebody's gotta have this.

And it's nice because sometimes we'll look at s- you know, people will send us art, you know, fine artworks-

There's a lot of Elsw- there's a lot of Ellsworth Kelly on How Long Gone colors

Ellsworth, we get a lot of Ellsworths, and you know, some of those pieces are not necessarily in the gift giving price range.

[laughs] No, they're not.

You know, they're like, "Oh, Chris would love this Paddock, but..." You know, "Chris would love this, this E. Kel- E. Kelly, but," you know.

Yeah, we can't hit the... Yeah, it's, it's currently at auction for four and a half million, and we're just a l- we're not super liquid right now.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

In Jim, Jim, Jim Jean's voice.

I think the guest bath will be okay without it for now.

[laughs] Yeah, the, the garage gym can live without this, this Ellsworth Kelly original.

Dude, Kelly in the garage gym. I leave the door open overnight, fuck it. I wish you would try to steal my Ellsworth.

I d- dare you to come in here. I got this stick on me. All right, look, How Long Gone, we appreciate you guys listening. We're happy to be back for 2026. We'll be back with more podcasts. We'll be back with more, uh, video. We will ba- be back with more interviews. More of the same.

I'm gonna have a GoPro strapped to me. He's gonna have a light strapped to him.

Don't worry about it. Now next, next episode of, next episode of our How Long Gone talk soup, I'm wearing the Petzl the whole time. Um, especially if they're willing-

Ooh

... to cut a check. Um, so just you guys, you guys over there, I'm sure they're based in Boulder or something. You guys get in touch.

Call our people, Petzl.

Okay. [laughs] All right.

Don't make me go to REI.

Thank you.

Um, yeah, that is all.

Thank you guys for listening. We'll talk to you soon.

Later.

Eat zucchini. Eat zucchini. Eat zucchini. Eat zucchini. Do you read me? Like the emoji. I want you. I want you. I want you.

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