867. - Ezra Marcus

[upbeat music] How long gone? Oh, it's a beautiful fall Thursday here in New York City. The leaves are changing, Jason. The guys are still outside shirtless doing, uh, muscle ups.

Mm.

Everything is, everything is right with the world.

Now I'm, now I'm starting to realize why you chose the apartment that you live in.

Mm-hmm.

A lot of muscle ups?

Uh, yeah. [laughs] If I can, if I can see muscle ups from my dining table, all things are right with the world.

That's when you put that, uh, you put that A2 Digestive ice cream pistachio Graza collab down-

[laughs]

... when you see the muscle up happening, don't ya?

I don't even put it down. I drop it because I'm so-

[laughs]

I can't ... I need my hands, you know what I mean? To mimic the muscle up, to do some pushups to try to match these fucking guys, but-

It ain't easy. How's your burpees going?

Uh, I mean, I, I don't actually hate burpees.

Mm-hmm.

I don't do them that-

I like doing a nice slow burpee, you know what I mean?

Yeah. [laughs]

We don't need to get ... We don't need to be so bouncy and explosive.

Yeah, let's-

You know?

[laughs] Let's sort of take the fun out of this thing and make it slow-

Mm

... and painful.

Like, the part where you-

[laughs]

... where you, like, you go ... Your, your hands are on the ground and then you kick your feet back into the pushup position.

Yeah. Yes, of course.

That's, that's the part where it gets the most dangerous, especially with my long frame. Uh, but then when you're, when you go from pushup position and then you jump back up to the little froggy squat, that's fine.

Yes.

No problem. And then the, the, the jump up, that's fine. But the other one, you know, it's, it's fucking up your form.

I don't love it. It's a very ... It's a Barry's exercise. I feel like that's where I was really forced to do those, uh, often. And, uh, it's, it- much like the Bulgarian-

Mm-hmm

... split squat. It's just some- it's something I'll do if I have to.

Sure.

But I don't ... If Hunter, you know, puts the gun to my head, I'm gonna do it, but I don't wanna do it.

I've, I've been Bulgarian lately, actually. I found my spot. I found my s- you know the, you know where the foam rollers cut in half, the little semi-circle?

Yeah, y- yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do that. Use that as the-

Oh, add that. Oh, I see. Like, put that on top of the bench or whatever so your foot is resting properly.

No, no, no. Put that on the ground so your foot that's on the floor, and it helps you ... It h- at least me, it helps me, like-

Balance?

... find, find, like, the right sweet spot so you can feel it all the way through your, through your glute. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. I've been doing, instead of those, I f- I, I looked up some alternatives and I've been doing some sort of high box step ups, uh, to work on my explosiveness-

Mm-hmm

... like we're talking about, because what ... I mean, every day is the, is the field or the court for both of us, so I think explosiveness is something we both need to lock into.

Wow, so fucking true, man.

[laughs] So fu- so fucking true, man.

I went on an explosive bike ride yesterday, really just cranked those hills. The NAD Plus was helping take me to the next level.

All we can do is try to get to the next level, whatever that may be, you know? I felt like an absolute ... I mean, for some reason, that flight yesterday back from San Francisco to New York, uh, really turned me out. I, I felt fucking awful.

I think I can figure out the reason. Let me know what time you woke up to go to the airport.

[laughs] Uh, it was a 4:00 AM wake up.

You said wheels up at 5:45.

Wheels up was 5... I think it was maybe 5:55. It was pre-6:00 AM, which I, I feel like I don't find that very often in the, in the Delta universe, even in, even in Europe or, or anywhere else. But I, I was able to get back, uh, by, you know, 4:00 PM, which was, you know, best case scenario considering.

Still not great. Damn.

No. I mean, there was a, there was a, of course, a short layover in the beautiful, uh, Detroit Airport. I know you're familiar with it, so I got to walk.

Oh, what a lay.

I got 10,000 steps going from gate to gate in the same terminal.

[laughs]

Um, so things were, things were ... That was nice. A little leg stretch. I, I didn't mind that, except the, the rush. I don't like that feeling of when you, you, when you land and you're boarding w- in the layover. You know what I mean? In the layover situation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a little frantic. You ... I- it's nice to have, like, 17 minutes to kill.

Yes, exactly.

That's the perfect amount.

No, exactly. But I felt like I'm ... I felt like it did ... It's sharpening my tools, my efficiency. You know, my, my, like ... A- how good am I at this? You know? Like, how, how real is it? How good am I? How quickly can I make it? How can I navigate? How can I get around these old people?

If Delta's listening, they're gonna be like, "We don't even need to give this guy 360. It sounds like he's already maximized-"

Yes, he's, he's fucking-

"... his efficiency as much-"

Yeah

... "further than we could."

I mean, they closed all the airports today, I guess, so at least I, I, I missed that. Uh, but apparently it's only gonna last for a couple days, hopefully. I, I'm not ... I, I keep reading about this.

Where'd you, where'd you read that, that it's only gonna last a couple days?

Well, I just keep reading this, and then I go to the airport and everything's fine. And I see all these videos of it being a nightmare, and then I go to the airport and it's fine. Uh, I think it's-

I mean, it's the same thing when, when Newsom posts a photo of LA. What do you mean homeless people? Everything's fine. You know, I don't see it. I don't see it w- on my walk to go get-

I think that's a little different-

... Alfred

... because of the, the s- the, the, just the size of the Los Angeles [laughs] area is a little larger-

[laughs]

... than the exact airports.

Or, I mean, that was just one example. You could say that for anywhere of anything where-

No, it's true, it's true

... where ... But, but it's different when, when you read a n- a news headline saying, "Newark Airport has grounded all flights," and then you go to Newark Airport, get on an airplane, and fly. It is a little like-

It's, it's, it's confusing

... what's going on here, exactly.

It's confusing. But, but look, we gotta pay these, we gotta pay these guys. We gotta get these TSA guys ... As much as I hate them, we gotta get them back to work. I don't wanna fuck up my flow.

[laughs]

We got places to be, people to see. Give those guys their minimum wage back. Let them search my bags. Let them have bad attitudes. Let my favorite ones that think they're performers, failed actors that like to-

[laughs]

... talk too much and use their hands. You know, give these people their jobs back. We, we need to fly.

No, I had a, a funny one [clears throat] 'cause sometimes when, when you do get a good TSA person who's, like, directing and yelling and do this and that, you get the people that over-perform.Where you kinda feel like you have to give them a courtesy giggle. But then you get the other people, a rare one, where they say the perfect amount of things with the perfect attitude.

Mm.

And, uh, and there was a guy who was doing that, just being informative and helpful, no extra bullshit, no fluff. And I was like, "Hey man, thanks for doing a good job today. I know it's, airport's crazy." He, and he looks straight into my eyes and he goes, "Shit, I ain't doing that much."

[laughs] That, that, that response lets me know that he was-

Okay, pimp

... doing exactly [laughs] exactly what you said perfectly.

[laughs]

That response tells me everything I need to know.

I'm just sitting here in terminal four digging in my butt, telling people-

[laughs]

... you can't bring a laptop through without taking it out your bag.

He, I'm just screaming, "No water," at these white folks. I don't know what, I don't know what the mother-

[laughs]

I don't know what, I don't know what you're talking about, man.

All, all I know is I confiscated someone's jersey mic-

[laughs]

... and it's underneath the bag in the trash can. And when it would go into the back, I'm gonna pull it out and it's actually gonna be hidden in there.

I wanna... We should talk... I, I would love to talk to an anonymous... If you work at TSA and you're anonymous, please f- get in touch. I would love to ask about who's taking home what.

If you work at TSA and, and you're anonymous, this one's for you.

Yeah. [laughs] Because I just, I just wanna know, like, I know some of you motherfuckers. Th- like, that's a scammer job. That's, that, that's like a job you get because you have to because the court mandated it, but you're still a scammer and you have to be taking the lotions, and potions, and creams-

Mm-hmm

... that you confiscate. Like, you start to learn what's worth what. You know? You start to learn that like, "Oh, that's a $300 cream. If I put that in, in my-"

[laughs]

"... fucking Chick-fil-A bag, I can go flip that on eBay at least, or on the street." There, there's so much profit to be made and they-

Interesting

... 'cause sometimes if they take something, you see them make kind of a performative gesture of throwing it away in front of you to, like, reassure you-

Mm-hmm

... that none of us are taking home any of these creams. And-

[laughs]

... I just think, I think one of these guys from the Bronx has figured out what Agustin's batter is, and is like, "Wait a second."

There, there's a 50 year, 59-year-old man at the Pittsburgh Airport who knows about the Oralee spring/summer '25 collection, which pieces are going for what.

Yeah, like we're gonna break in. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah. I, I just think it's too easy.

He's like, "What kind of lens is on that Contax?"

Yeah. [laughs]

"Yeah, we're gonna need to go into secondary."

I, I'm s- that's a perfect point, where a camera like that looks like some old junk unless you know what it is. And then you're like, "Wait a second, this is very valuable." And I, but I think with the, the, the toiletries, they literally have to take them.

Mm-hmm.

So you can't do anything about it. So then it's like, well, you know, do I really wanna throw this away? It's so wasteful. You know? I, I would prefer they take it.

So every TSA agent, you go into their house, you open up the medicine cabinet-

Oh, for fuck's sake. [laughs]

... it's all the new, all the new Freddie Mal-

Shit looks like, it looks like a m-

... all the AB.

Bro, how come this motherfucker's medicine cabinet looks like Blue Mercury? This is crazy. This guy-

Chalu, you thought I was a Crip.

[laughs]

All this AB I got in the medicine chest.

This is... [laughs]

Fuck you mean?

I look old as hell, but somehow I, I'm looking like Blue Mercury on the inside.

Blue M&M.

I don't understand how this, I don't ha- I don't understand how this-

Yo, this eye, this under eye patch don't even come out till next week.

[laughs] I just, I could, I think you could really give yourself an education on, uh, skincare and hydration, um, just by stealing the stuff that you're supposed to throw away.

You thought you knew all the Marvis flavors? No, no, no, no, no.

No. Yeah. Oh my, TSA. Imagine the TSA in Milan. They got un, they got unreleased. They got unreleased. They got un, they got shit I've never heard of.

TSA.

They've got [laughs] got the, they got, they got flavors that are so bad that they, that no one wants them.

[laughs]

It's, it's gotten, it's gotten to that point. It's gotten to that point. How much g- how much licorice mint can we really stuff over here?

Well, who wants the hojicha? No, I'm good.

[laughs]

No more. I'm good.

Well, well, let's put that up in the break room.

[laughs]

We can just kinda flip a coin for that one, whoever wants it. Oh, Jesus Christ.

Uh, I, I went to a movie screening, shout out to my Neon family, last night. Uh, sentimental value. Saw some friends of the show there. Lionel and, uh, Ayo, and who else was there? Carrie, Kenneth from 30 Rock up in there.

One of the greats.

That was a rare, that was a rare sighting.

One of... Is he in it or is he just... I mean, he's obviously a cinema lover. I thought he could maybe have a little part.

He, it's because, um, the, the Skarsgård dad plays the male lead in it.

Yes.

And I know that-

Yeah

... Jack and Skarsgård have a will they, won't they sort of hetero/question mark friendship, right?

Okay, okay. That, well, that, that-

You've seen the photos and the posts, right?

I, I mean, all of these actors gaybaiting, um, I can't keep track, uh-

Mm-hmm

... if, if I'm being completely honest with you.

Sure. Sure, sure, sure.

Was the movie good?

It was good. I did get a nice little nappy in there at some point. W- it wouldn't be a film without that for me, but yeah, it was, it was good. I mean, you know, it's, it's a film that you really gotta be in the mood for. It's, you know, over two hours and it's about, you know, Scandinavian family, familiar life and struggles of-

I mean, that does sound pretty good. I mean, I've, it's not Selling Sunset season nine-

It was really good

... but it sounds pretty good.

I mean, it was, it was amazingly done. Definitely. It won, like, it won a, a, an award at Cannes, and I think it was a good one. Not no, not no little one.

Mm.

But yeah, it was good. It was great. It was at the Directors Guild Theater right next door to The Griddle.

Oh, sure.

Over there on Sunset and Fairfax.

Is the Gr- the Griddle, the Griddle's still open, right?

Still open, and I was, I was reminiscing of when you would go there and you would ask for the secret off-menu pancake waffles, and you would have to say the password, supercalifragilistic, you know, the whole thing.

[laughs]

And then they're like, "That's how you get the secret pancakes."

Wow.

And I, it was, and basically what all it is is they take waffle batter and make pancakes with it, or they take pancake batter-

And make waffles

... and make waffles with it.

I mean, that's pretty-

I forgot which one it was

... genius, I have to say. And all, and that place, there used to be a line. That was like one of the first lines I ever saw.

Yeah?

Like at a restaurant, you know what I'm saying? That's like l- really one of the first things I ever saw.

That was like 2005 era wait in line for an hour and a half-

Yeah, the good-

... to have your hangover brunch

... the good, the good hangover brunch. I saw that there's pictures of the, uhOf the new, the public that's, that's going in where The Standard was. Lynn posted some-

Oh, really?

I think there was a whole little reporter story about it. Yeah, I gotta look, I gotta look, 'cause I, I need to see what they're doing. 'Cause they can't change the structure 'cause it's protected, but-

Mm-hmm

... obviously they're gonna tear the guts out like it's a-

Sure

... you know-

I mean, it's a f-

Like an old school

... it's a full gut reno, but we're gonna keep all the charm. 'Cause I mean, it's... The, the, uh, is it the first Ocean's 11 movie where Brad Pitt r- is the owner of that hotel and they blow up his car in the parking lot?

Oh, shit. Maybe.

Tobey Maguire is, like, having a freak-out in the, one of the rooms. He has to calm them down. It, like, that's the level, that's, like, the era of-

I love that idea

... of Hollywood bullshittery that I'm loving.

Of Tobey Maguire doing his vegan coke at The Standard Hotel in West Hollywood.

[laughs]

Having a fucking freak-out. All right, we got a guest today.

Is this coke vegan?

[laughs] That's what my fentanyl strips are. It's actually for animal parts.

[laughs]

Uh, all right, we have a guest today, Ezra Marcus, friend of the show, uh, a, a writer, a man about town. He's apparently... I, I've seen some DJ gigs lately hitting his resume, which we'll need to obviously-

Yeah, you, you can talk to him about writing, and I'll talk to him about being in the mix.

We'll grill him on both. Great head of hair on this guy. All right, let's give him a call. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

Three times a week, and I, I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at [laughs] Stateside.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's three times a week, and, and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say.

[laughs]

Give, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, "You're fine," you know, "Drink more water."

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly, as if-

That's about it

... as if I could drink more water, doctor. I, I, I don't get data. I don't get a game plan. I just get a pat on the ass and get out there and, and make it better. But SuperPower is doing something different. SuperPower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak. It's a simple blood draw, one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Uh, their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, and even environmental toxins. Ooh, ooh.

[laughs]

So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go. SuperPower is more comprehensive and advanced system out there.

Make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with SuperPower. For a limited time, How Long Gone listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to superpower.com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership. That is code HOWLONG, and after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about SuperPower. Do us a favor if you could and tell them How Long Gone sent ya, and that'll just support us. Thanks.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris, and sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to s- be in the same room with them because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself, and that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over 6 million people globally are using it, and you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh. You know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, "Damn, I really am him." You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is better H-E-L-P .com/howlong.

All right, what's up, big bro? How are you?

Not much, man. How are you guys?

Oh, it's-

It's good

... you know, another, it's a beautiful fall day in New York, and we're inside podcasting.

[laughs]

How God intended.

It's a beautiful fall day in LA, and I'm inside podcasting.

[laughs] Yeah, exactly. Cheers.

What's up with you, bro?

Not much. I just moved. I'm on a, I'm in the kind of... I'm, like, three blocks away from the Times Square Thunderdome. [laughs]

Well, you, as a, as a local politician in the area-

[laughs]

... I'm glad you can stay in your jurisdiction.

Yeah, but it's just far enough away so I don't have to be accosted by my, you know.

Sure, I-

Yep

... I haven't been over there in a while. I need to walk over there, uh, to... Maybe I'll go over there today, see what's going on.

You w- you wanna be close but not too close. That's why I live where I am. You're, you're just removed enough, but you're still within striking distance if you need to go, you know, do whatever. Look at some 19-year-olds practice their kickflips-

Mm-hmm

... in the middle of a closed-off street.

Um, sample the latest in-Fentanyl at Seward Park.

[laughs]

That's, that's actually a, the real New York experience that people are looking for. They come here and they stay in Brooklyn, and they wanna get a picture of the bridge and stuff, but really-

They say, "I read about this place called Cookies in one of-"

[laughs]

[laughs]

"... this guy Ezra's articles in the New Yorker." And then they show up and it's nothing but fentanyl, and you feel responsible, don't you, Ezra?

What happened to, what happened to Cookies? Is it still kicking?

Uh, yeah, actually, that's, I'm glad that we brought that up because I was just thinking, 'cause you wrote that article about the rise of Cookies, the m- the marijuana dispensary that uses streetwear-like marketing tactics to sell drugs. A y- that was, like, a year ago, you know, a year and a half ago, whatever, and there were Cookieses all over, and I just searched this morning, all the LA Cookies, gone. There's just the one, like, distribution center in, like, the middle of, like, industrial Haywood, California, near nothing, you know?

That's crazy.

In the Roland '60s.

I didn't know that. I mean, I f- I, I f- I get the sense that, that... I mean, they were certainly making a lot of money, but it was a little bit more of, like, an, a brand with intense loyalty among a very certain kinda guy, and less of, like, a super coherent business proposal, but-

Sure. [laughs]

For sure.

Okay.

Um-

That's actually, that's how we describe How Long Gone as well-

[laughs]

... so I, I understand exactly what you're saying.

Which is a, which is an odd turn away from most dispensaries, who usually have a pretty airtight business plan and-

[laughs]

... and cap table in place, right?

Yeah.

[laughs]

Uh, but Cookies did, Cookies did popularize the sort of, how would I say it? It had, it had, like, a nice, a high-end Ziploc closure system on the, on the bag-

[laughs]

... that you could almost carry like a pochette. Like, it would... it's sort of a clutch style-

Yeah

... marijuana holder. But did that closure system, that kept the smell inside? Was that part of it as well?

I don't know.

[laughs]

I think that question might be a little bit... The, I'm, I'm, I'm probably, I'm likely better suited to answer that than, than Ezra is.

Back in, back in my day, I used to have to buy these special bags that were called, I think they were called stink-proof, and it was what you had to k-

[laughs]

You had to keep your-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... 'cause my shit was, my shit was so loud that I didn't want it-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... to smell, you know, it just sitting in the cabinet. I didn't wanna have that smell.

Yeah. Your, your gelato was way too stanky.

Way too stanky.

The, the times that I've bought weed has, has exclusively been, it's been given to me in the most crinkled piece of, like, Saran Wrap doesn't, isn't even... That's too nice for what they're giving it to me in.

[laughs] Sure. Sure.

Okay. Was thi- was this in college, or is this, you know, in your adult life in the last few years?

Mostly in college and high school, and then I actually had a, I'm now remembering, I had a disaster, uh, experience maybe t- maybe twe- 10 or 11 years ago when I was, uh, when I was just starting out in, in media. I was covering this random ass music festival in Delaware, and my friend was driving us around down there, and he was like, "I'm gonna show you guys, like, the r- the real Delaware. We're gonna go to the-"

[laughs]

"... the other side." I was like-

Okay. Okay

... "Okay." And he-

You're going to O Block Delaware.

[laughs]

Yeah.

It ain't sweet.

[laughs] Let me tell you, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's no Bidens over on, over on this side.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Um, but he was like, we pull up and this guy's like, "You guys want hard or soft?" I was like, "What? What?" [laughs]

Joe Biden.

He's like, "Bro, I don't want any dick, bro."

Yeah.

"That's not what I'm here for."

But-

"I know it's the other side-"

He's, he's like, "No, no." I just... He's like, "I just want weed, man." Like, I don't... He just wasn't trying to buy heroin or whatever.

[laughs]

And the guy comes back. The guy, it, it was like, doesn't even... I don't even think this guy was a drug dealer. I think he was just a random crackhead. And he goes-

[laughs]

He comes back with, hands us an it- like a, a st- a piece of styrofoam folded in half.

[laughs]

And we drive away. And we look, we're like, "Okay, what have, what have we got here?" And it was literally just a handful of grass off the-

Looking like a Rick Owens clutch

... off the street. [laughs]

[laughs] Dude, styrofoam doesn't even bend that well. That's f-

You have to crunch it. It, it, it, it, it, like-

Go tell a crackhead you can't bend a piece of styrofoam.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Give him 10 seconds, he'll figure it out.

Like, I've gotten some crazy drug deliveries, uh, systems in my time, and I was always really impressed when I first moved to New York that weed was, it was so organized here, and the guy would show up with almost what looked like a camera backpack, like photographer backpack.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And he would have-

The Pelican pack

... he'd have he, and he'd have cases on the inside. He'd open them up, there'd be jars, they'd all be labeled. It was very professional. But yeah, I mean, I've gotten coke folded up in paper before.

Oh, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Which is, is one of the worst of all time because you have to... It's tough to use in a bathroom. You gotta kinda lay it all out on a table.

'Cause you... And also, you, you gotta, you can't just lick the paper, you gotta eat it, you know?

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

You have to eat the paper. Where'd it come from?

Well, I don't know if you've ever experienced parachuting. It was something very popular when, when I was younger, where you would sorta just tie up... If you, if you didn't wanna just do nummies of molly, you would sorta tie it up in a piece of, um, in a piece of, uh, toilet paper, like a small balloon, and just toss it back, wash it down with water. It was, it was the cheap version of making your own vitamins, let's say-

Oh

... with capsules.

In the culinary world, it's called a bouquet garni. It's where-

[laughs]

... you're able to sort of steep, steep whatever you need to do-

Yeah, think of it as a-

... and then it's easily removed

... think of it as a teabag. I know you're a writer. I'm sure, you know, you're sipping on-

Yeah

... some green, uh, some tips.

For, for, for me, I, this is, I don't know where this idea came from, and maybe it was real, but in, in college it was ubiquitously understood that molly worked so much better if it was with orange juice.

Yeah.

I think that came from Gucci Mane somehow. And we would, it would just be this sort of like OJ-

I've never heard that

... OJ molly concoction. It was awful. [laughs]

Well, my, my first foray was, was with-

Tastes like toothpaste

... [laughs] was with mushrooms, and they would say you always drink orange juice with the mushrooms because it'll, it does a good job at disguising and, and covering the awful taste.

Sure.

But then the, the citrus in the OJ and the vitamin C, it really turns up the visies. And I think the visies, you know, I don't know how m- you, you know... The visies on molly, not as powerful, but still.

I'm calling bullshi- I'm calling bullshit on all this right now, and this definitely feel-

Big, big, big OJ. [laughs]

Chris has always been a visie hater, though.

No, Minute Maid, yeah, Minute Maid-

It was a PSYOP, bro

... planted this in the high schools.

[laughs]

Yeah, Minute Maid PSYOP once again.

Mm-hmm.

I don't, I don't like visuals. I think that's-I, I just, that's not the kind of drugs that I was interested in. I don't wanna see... I barely wanna see what's actually real in front of me. I... d- definitely not what's in my-

Damn, bro

... mind's eye.

You're a bitch. I love it when, like, a tree turns into a skull.

[laughs]

[laughs]

But you went to high, you went to high sch- you went to high school in what, Pacific Northwest or S- or, like, San Francisco, Yay Area?

I went to Berkeley High School in Berkeley-

That's right

... California.

I was just in B- I was in Berkeley ju- literally two days ago.

He w- he had dinner at Yay Panisse just two days ago, right? [laughs]

Oh, no way.

I was at, I was at Yay Panisse having four salads. The best restaurant in the, in the world.

Upstairs or downstairs?

Upstairs.

That's the way to do it.

I've actually never eaten downstairs. I'm not really interested in it.

[laughs] Me neither.

Yeah, what, what's your history with, uh, with Chez Panisse, Ezra?

My grandmother would always take me for, uh, my birthday, big occasions.

Graduation, birthday, all that shit?

Yep. Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Was your m- was your mo- was your grandmother gang with Alice Waters?

My grandma took me to Marie Callender's.

[laughs]

[laughs]

You got to go to goddamn fucking Marie Panisse.

I don't know if my, I don't know if my, I don't know if my grandmother ever took me out to eat ever, so that-

[laughs]

... you guys both beat me.

Oh, okay, okay.

Wow.

It's a race to the bottom.

Was grandma gang... Was Gran- was grandma gang with Alice Waters, or she just had good taste?

No, I think she was just, like, she was just a kinda... I think the whole, my whole family, they're, they're really kind of... You know how some people, it's like the fresh ingredients is literally all they think about at any given time?

Yeah.

It's all they talk about?

It's called... Yeah, I'm on a, I'm on, I'm on a podcast with him three times a fucking week.

[laughs]

That's all I hear about.

Good ingredients in, good ingredients out. It's not that hard, guys.

[laughs]

It's not that hard.

[laughs]

What's my job as a storyteller? Just to not fuck up what Mother Nature created, okay?

So you're, so you're saying that your family, based on the Berkeley location, this isn't a total shock, they love fresh produce and high quality ingredients.

Yeah, d- you say it like it's a derogatory-

No, no, no. It's, I mean, it's, it's really, it's, it's, it's a, it's very endearing, and I, I think that they're absolutely right. It's... I will say that 60% of what my grandmother talks about is the seasonality of corn-

[laughs]

... et cetera.

This is literally Jason. This is what Jason talking about fucking hash.

Yo, what's her at though? What's her at?

Yeah. [laughs]

Let's get her on.

Bro, you should pull up to the Berkeley Hills. You guys could, you guys could chef it up.

Okay.

So does she... Is she a, is she a, a home cook and a gardener and stuff, or is she just a passionate eater?

Um-

She a munch. [laughs]

[laughs]

What do you put-

Hold up, bro. Is your grandma a munch?

Well, she has, she has, she has four kids, so, um-

[laughs]

... I think they're-

She's a parking lot demon. [laughs]

[laughs]

Sorry. Sorry.

[laughs]

Yes, you are again.

I'm sorry, Ms. Marcus. I am so real. [laughs]

[laughs]

She's a, she's an, she's a excellent chef.

Mm-hmm.

Definitely, like, in a kind of Alice Waters, but she... I mean, she was from New England, so it was, it-

Okay

... she moved out to Berkeley later, later on.

I could, I could hand her a persimmon, and she would just smell it and go, "No."

She will... She has a harsher, she has a kinda harsher criteria at the supermarket or the farmers market-

Yep

... than, like, I don't even know, like, Future at Magic City. It... She is like-

[laughs]

... she knows exactly what she's looking for, 95% of the produce will not-

So she's like Wiz Khalifa at, at the cookies sample sale-

[laughs] Exactly

... just, like, very, like, "No, no, no."

[laughs] Yeah.

Birds of a feather with me, I will say.

Did any of that rub off on you, or are you more of a McDonald's, Chick-fil-A, Taco Bell type cat?

I'm somewhere in the middle. I love, like... You know, I, I, I love eating crazy food. I love going to, like, you know, deep Queens-

Okay

... real Thai food, what have you. But-

Bourdain ass

... I'll also go to the most, like, dusty ass supermarket and buy the, like, half rotten onion 'cause I'm bored and, like, not paying attention.

Sure, sure. You're-

I think it's all kind of, kind of fake to a certain extent.

I, I also think it's fake. Well, I don't think it's fake. I think that there is a... I think that 95 to 99% of people cannot actually tell the difference of th- most thing, mo- the quality of most things, unless they've spent a lot of time trying to develop that.

I think-

You know?

... I think, I, I agree, and I think there's a certain kind of performativity to it, where somebody will get, like, you know, the heirloom tomato from the farmers market, and it's this, like, full... They have to perform this, like, full body orgasmic of, "Oh, the... How this is so f-

[laughs]

And it's like blind taste test, that's probably about the same to that person as, like-

100%

... random shit.

Look, we do that with everything, though. We... I do that with my fucking-

Totally

... Birkin, you know? I look... I pull it out, and I say, "Damn, it's so nice," because I spent-

[laughs]

... 18 thou on it. And a blind taste test with that and the, and the Coach bag, 99% of people-

Now, that-

... won't be able to tell the difference

... I could, I could look, I could look for the proper hardware and stamping, but I know what you mean. I know what you mean. [laughs]

You're, you are the 1%, Chris. Your gay ass is the 1% in this instance.

No, but I, I think that with f- I say this all the time about food, because I go to these places that are so good, and I'm like, "Yeah, this is good as hell." And then I go to places that are less good, and I'm also like, "This is good as hell."

[laughs]

And I know they're different, 'cause one costs a lot more, and people really care about going there. But I don't think I am ad- I can tell with s- we all have our things that we can tell.

Y'all ain't super tasters. You're super dressers. I'm a super taster.

Jason, could you taste... A cigarette taste test, how do you think you'd do if I gave you five different cigs?

If... As long as they're brands that I have had experience with-

Yeah

... no problem.

Yeah.

No problem.

Okay. That, that... See, that's the other thing. I-

I'll do a Hestia, I'll do a Parliament, Mar- Marlboro Light, Turkish-

Gold

... Camel.

Sure.

I could even do a Lucky Strike, the toasted.

I only got i- This is gonna sound really stupid, but I only got into smoking cigarettes in the last year and a half. And so I'm now-

Welcome, brother

... just trying them all out, and I just, I can barely tell the diff- like, they're all so good. [laughs] Like-

[laughs]

Just-

Okay, okay. You're easy when it comes to nicotine addiction.

You got the, you got the heirloom Marlboro Light, and you're super happy with it-

Mm-hmm. [laughs]

... and it's all good.

I'll get a carton of Hestias over to the house, Ezra. Don't worry. Uh, we were talking about DJing on the intro. You invited me to go see you DJ at Jeans on Halloween night, and I went there after Tame Impala, and there was, like, 700 people in line, so we didn't get in. So how was it?

It was awesome. I mean-I love DJing. I've been doing it for a long time.

[laughs]

It's kinda, it's kinda all I actually ever wanna do. And-

Really?

Absolutely. And-

It pays more than writing.

That's for sure.

[laughs]

Um, [laughs] it pays more. It, uh, matters more.

[laughs]

It's, it's, um-

I think we can get to the bot- We can... Look, I know you wear glasses and shit, but let's just be honest, DJing gets more pussy, and that's what you wanna say, but you don't wanna say it.

[laughs] Or dick.

That's true.

And the family is more impressed by DJing nowadays than they were back in my day.

Yeah. Did, did that, do your parents understand that at all?

They were just kinda like, "Okay, you know, if you're happy and having fun, it's, it's fine. It's no problem." But it was more so like, "Hey, I'm DJing at this, like, massive rave," and they're like... Like, "I'm DJing at, like, the, the Olympic arena," you know? And they're like, "Okay, cool." And then, but then if I'm playing, like, at a dive bar, and it's in, like, the classified section of the LA Weekly-

Mm

... they're like, "Oh, shit, bro, you're in, you're in print."

I would be upset if your mom was hyped on Hard Festival.

[laughs]

But I think, I think that, I think that that is... I think parents, as long as you don't ask the parents for money, in my experience, they're fine with whatever you're doing-

Mm-hmm

... as long as it's not obvious that it's illegal.

Unless you're from Berkeley, then your parents are gonna have more of an opinion on what's going on.

That's honest, that's honestly... You seem like a guy who comes from educators.

Or whatever the Berkeley of your part of the world is.

Yeah. Not specifically, but it's all, yeah, it's all the kind of, like, generic Jewish sort of, you know-

Mm-hmm

... played a lot of Scrabble growing up.

[laughs]

So I think you could-

Sure. Sure. Your household rewarded intellectualism, you're saying. It wasn't frowned upon like some households that I know of.

Definitely. And it was, it was, it was highly regarded. I think that maybe led me towards, you know, on the one end, I guess I have this quasi-intellectual career. But I think also stuff like DJing was... I, I was really, I was like, "Wait, there's this?"

You're like, "Oh, he's a writer." They're like, "Yeah, very impressive. Yeah, all these publications. What's he writing about?" "Galaxy gas." [laughs]

[laughs]

Yeah.

It's, "Grandma, this one's not for you maybe."

[laughs]

"Maybe... He'll, he'll send you his newest mix, and you can put it on in the car-"

[laughs]

"... on the way to the farmer's market."

So are, are you a better writer than you are a DJ, in your opinion?

Absolutely. A- a- absolutely. I'm a, I'm a complete hack DJ. I'm such a sync, just a sync button queen at the end of the day.

Oh, you're a sync queen, aren't ya?

I'm learning. You know, I'm actually, after, like, 15 years of this, I'm like, "I'm gonna learn how to beat match. I'm, I'm gonna do it." But-

[laughs]

Don't waste your-

... at the end of the day-

Don't waste your time, bro

... I love a sync button. It's like you c- you could... 'Cause all I care about is playing, like, as many of the songs that I want as I can in a night, and I don't really care about the rest of it. And-

I mean, I guess, I guess if it, if it, the difference is sync button or aw- sounds awful, yeah, I'm, I'm going sync 100% of the time.

[laughs] Yeah.

Yeah.

It's true.

Ezra, look, DJing today, sync button is fine. Just keep working on those, those pull-ups in the park. That's what's gonna get you the gigs.

Mm.

It's about... It ain't about, it ain't about the, the skill.

Your face card is already lethal, but yeah, once you get a John Summit bod-

[laughs] Yeah, Jason.

Did you take your shirt off, or was your costume on Halloween a shirtless offering?

My costume was a kinda last-minute Charli XCX.

[laughs]

It was a-

Did you get the girls out? [laughs]

Um, by the end of the night, yeah, a little bit. I, I had a, I had a wine stain-

[laughs]

I had, like, a wine-stained beater, pleaser, excuse me, and I had, like, a-

[laughs]

I had tights on and a, and a skirt.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Wow, okay.

I was honestly kinda unrecognizable. Like, people did not know what, what was happening.

They're like, "Do you know when Ezra goes on?" [laughs]

But he's been there for three hours. What is the... Did you wear anything over the tights?

[laughs]

Yeah. I, I had, like, a s- I had, like, tights and then, like, a little mini skirt on.

Okay, nice.

[laughs]

So you went to American Apparel and said, "Put it in the bag," type, type shit.

I, I borrowed a mini skirt, and it, it was a-

Hold on. You're telling me you borrowed a mini skirt from a chick, and you're... It wor- it fit?

Mm-hmm.

And then when you went back to the flat, she was like, "No, no, no, no, no, leave it on."

[laughs]

"Leave it on." There we go. [laughs]

Oh, no, just pull it up. Just pull it up. It's fine.

Oh, I can't wait to get out of this. She'll, she'll know now.

Yeah. It was like, wait, this is so much more convenient than the... [laughs]

Yeah, it's really, it, it is.

Yeah.

A, a skirt, I have worn one in my life, and it is quite comfortable. No tights underneath.

Tights, tights, it turns out-

Sure

... extremely comfortable.

Well, yeah, they're helping your circulation. They're, they're keeping everything-

Mm-hmm

... obviously they're keeping everything-

Mm-hmm

... zipped up, but they're also g- keeping the blood flowing.

Mm-hmm.

[laughs]

And it kinda helped with the, like, with the, with the, like, tucking component of the, of the costume as well.

Tucking.

So your tuck was un-clock-able is what you're saying?

I, my, I was serving fish.

[laughs]

[laughs] Okay. That's a successful Halloween costume. Do you, did you see other... 'Cause I, Halloween is my least favorite, one of my least favorite things on planet Earth, especially in New York.

[laughs]

And going to Jeans on Halloween, I would rather take my own life. But-

Shout out to Jeans. We love you guys over there.

Yeah, I love Jeans.

Can't wait to go to the farm.

Yeah, I love Jeans. Can't wait to go to the farm.

[laughs]

Um, but the, but the crowd, I imagine, was, was everybody going OD costume? Is that sort of what is expected at a night like that?

Yeah, it was, it was a lot. It was, it was, like, I don't know, I feel like New York Halloween is, like, the biggest holiday, and it was, like, also that place, love them as well. It, it get... I felt like it, it, there was a real kind of, I don't know, like, bottle service. People were spending, they were charging, like, 100 bucks on the door, and people were paying it just to get into a club.

Yeah. When you're DJing at a club-

And, um, it was a lot of costumes

... and they sell the tables on stage next to you, usually the type of person who's gonna spend 10 grand to have a table in a club, they're not who you wanna be hanging out with all night.

What was awesome-

So they got, they, they give you bad requests

... what was really awesome was some of... My, my friend Ben and I were DJing. We were, he was also in drag. He was J- Jamay Private School Girl.

Shout out to, shout out to our King, our King Ben. He was a, he was a... I'm sorry, what?

He was J- Jamay Private School Girl.You know, like the Summer Heights High.

Okay.

And so there's just the two of us on stage in wigs, and then the club gave us a security guard who was standing right next to us, keeping the-

Yeah

... the hoi polloi from-

Protect the dolls.

[laughs] Yeah, exactly.

[laughs]

They gave us tasers as well. [laughs]

They handed out a Jeans branded taser.

[laughs]

It came with a cookie. It was an amazing-

[laughs]

It was an amazing gift.

[laughs]

You had a security guard, so, so you didn't have to take any requests. You guys could play your little fucking, your shit-

Yeah

... without no problems.

We can play our bullshit SoundCloud UKG remix.

Okay. What was the song of the night?

Um-

And then we'll move on.

What was the song of the night? I mean, we... I, I loved playing, like, my little UKG remix of Rihanna kind of thing-

Mm

... and then at one point, I, I... It was honestly such a blur, but I played that, one of those new Two Hollis tracks-

[laughs]

... which I'm ashamed to say, I, I can't get enough Two Hollis.

Bro-

Okay

... even you're too old to play Two Hollis.

I know. Yeah.

Did the crowd go off, or did, or were they too old?

I don't think that, that... They, they seemed a little old to know it, but it definitely went crazy. But I, yeah, I felt... I was like-

Sure. If it's good, it's good.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

I'm a solid, like, what? 15 years older than this musician.

I don't know if-

Probably.

I don't know if I've ever heard Two Hollis, if I'm keeping it a stack. Maybe I've listened once when, when it first came out and I just knew it wasn't for me, or maybe it is for me. Is that, is that-

I think it's more for you than most of this shit, honestly. You would, you would, you would listen to it and be like, "Okay, I get it."

Is, are, are there any g-

Versus like, "Turn this mess off."

Is there any guitars at all, even fake ones? Or is it just, like-

Not really

... computer music? Okay. Okay. Okay.

It's definitely, it's definitely just, like, kind of Zoomer-

Some glitched out trap shit

... TikTok. Yeah.

But it's also really catchy.

But he's already fallen off. I mean, he's in that new Vans campaign, which I quite like [laughs] actually. Him with the f-

Haven't seen it.

[laughs] I think it, I think it's him, right? He's got the two-tone hair, right? Like, his hair is blonde and then black at the bottom.

I think you're thinking of Netsp- you're thinking of Netspend, bro.

Oh, I'm thinking of Netspend. You're right. Netspend's in the Vans campaign. I apologize.

Netspend is like if Two Hollis was eight years old.

Two Hollis is more of, like, a Rick Owens kinda... Then Netspend is more of your-

He's li- he's taller than you. He's, like, 6'6", 100 pounds, bleached blonde, long hair.

I think Netspend is also Rick Owens, but maybe j- [laughs] maybe just different section of the store.

It's true. [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

I don't think... I think all of those guys are-

He, he shop at Little Ricky's.

He's, yeah, he shops at Ricky's. I feel like not... [laughs] I feel like all those guys, it's crazy that they wear Rick Owens, because Rick Owens looks good on almost no one, and that's the thing that they're best at, actually. Wearing Rick Owens... Two Hollis is better at wearing Rick Owens than making music, is what I'm trying to say.

[laughs]

He actually makes it look good, which is impossible for most civilians.

Absolutely. I mean, it helps that he's, like, this 7' tall androgynous god, but-

Mm. [laughs]

... yeah. It was like Rick Owens, like, cloned him and improved-

Yeah

... in his own physique.

Do you think he's, do you think he's out here, do you think he's out here piping, or do you think he's on Roblox? [laughs]

I, I don't see why those are, those are mutually exclusive.

[laughs]

I do. [laughs]

[laughs]

I do. [laughs]

[laughs]

I do. I guess the F- the FBI would-

Are you saying-

Yeah, I-

Ezra's saying get you a girl that can do both.

[laughs]

Yeah. I, look, it's very, that's very possible. I didn't think of that scenario. I did not think of that scenario.

So Roblox is your Raya, is what you're saying. That's where you bag them and then you take them home and tag them. I, I fuck with your program, Ezra. That's nice.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Okay. It's been a few years since you wrote about the, the Horses scandal, the restaurant in LA in, in, you know, the, the cat killing and all that stuff. I actually had dinner there last night, and, um, have you, have you thought about the story at all in the last few years since you wrote it? Or have you kept up or seen its evolution or-

Yeah

... talked to any of the people on the inside more?

What is Revolve Man, Jason? It's... Oh, [laughs] funny you ask.

What's a Revolve Man?

It's a r- a place where guys who care about how they look go to shop. Revolve Man is stocked with only the elevated essentials and trend-forward styles from brands like Polo, Ralph Lauren, Salomon, Fear of God Essentials for our hoopers out there, and more. It's not fast fashion and it's not stuffy. It's the sweet spot between looking intentional and not looking like you tried too hard. That's what we're all trying to accomplish out here, Jason. New arrivals drop twice a week with free two-day shipping and next-day options. Plus, returns are genuinely easy.

Genuinely, yeah. It's one of those things, we're all busy. Let's say we got an important dinner coming up at the end of the week. It's Tuesday. You're working every single day. You don't have time to go shopping and try clothes on and blah, blah, blah, or even just browse. You know, Revolve, it's all there. It's all curated for what you want, and then you click buy, you go to bed. Couple days later, that shows up in packaging that's a little nicer than the, the other places you're buying clothes from, and you've got a nice look for the big night out. And then you're like, "Wait a minute, I don't even have to return this because I enjoy this clothing and I wanna wear it again another time," versus all those dumb other websites. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last minute that actually works, Revolve Man always has it. Go to revolveman.com/howlong to shop and use code HOWLONG for 15% off your order. Free two-day shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That is revolve.com/howlong and use the promo code HOWLONG to get 15% off your entire order. Offer ends soon. Don't sleep on it. And you don't need clothes too. You can get just, you know, a cool candle or an incense gift for a baby shower. Whatever it is, revolve.com/howlong.

Hi, Talk House network listeners. It's your old friend Nels Cline from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer, and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan; Chautauqua, New York; Lafayette, New York; Bethlehem, Pennsylvania; Vienna, Virginia; Forest Hills, New York; Portland, Maine; Tulsa, Oklahoma; Memphis, Tennessee; LaGrange, Georgia; Charleston, South Carolina; Virginia Beach, Virginia; Wheeling, West Virginia; and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson, that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilcoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer.

Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Red Bull Summer All-Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end DJ, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. [cheering] Red Bull Summer All-Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit redbull.com/brightsummerahead to learn more. See ya this summer.

I, I mean, I went to Horses maybe six months after it came out. I, uh, and it was... I thought it was incredible. I hadn't been before. It was-

Yeah

... it was excellent. But, um, I was, I was sort of fascinated by the, um, way that that turned into the Frog Club situation in New York.

Mm-hmm.

I, I didn't, you know, I didn't do any more-

I was, I was hoping I would never have to hear about Frog Club again-

Yeah. [laughs]

... but I knew Jason would find a way-

[laughs]

... to force it down my little ear holes.

I never had the chance to, uh, enjoy Frog Club's green food.

[laughs]

But [laughs]

And you know what the fucked up part is for me personally? I love frogs.

You, you-

It's one of the only... I'm a big Kermit guy. I don't really like, like, real frogs. They're disgusting. But Kermit's one of my all-time great celebrities.

But what did it feel like stolen froggy valor for you?

Yes.

Like, y'all don't deserve this frog. Okay.

I don't, I didn't go in there. I, uh... But the f- you went, Jason. You did go, right, Jason?

Yeah, the, the food was particularly disappointing.

I think Horses is always-

To the point where you're offended by it

... Horses has always been fine. One of the worst hostesses I've ever encountered in my life that's so mean. I don't, like, I don't know why.

[laughs]

I don't, I don't get... Like, just clearly mean in a way that that job should not allow because that job is to be sort of welcoming and friendly as the face of the restaurant.

Maybe they're mean only to you 'cause you're a dick.

I mean, I'm less of a dick than you are.

[laughs]

And you've said... I guess you've been pretty nice about Horses. I think Horses is fine. I think the people really wanted it to like it more than they should have, I would say.

Yeah.

But the, the drama was fun.

Yeah, the drama was fun, and I think it, you know, it w- it was just, like, fascinating thinking about this, like, husband and wife duo coming apart at the seams while running a restaurant that then became a celebrity, you know-

Mm

... whatever it became. And then the kind of potential revelation after all of that that when she kind of, that when she opened a restaurant and it just completely failed. And it's like, well, was he, for all of his, you know, obvious flaws as a pet owner and a-

[laughs]

... you know, manager, was he maybe-

He was the sauce, bro. He was the sauce

... was he the, was he the... Yeah.

Yeah.

And he was the one. So.

But there, but it, ob- the obvious flaws are obvious because a flawed person told you them. You know what I mean? So it's not... We don't, we... These are not obvious verified flaws for anyone involved, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I think there's still-

There's so much hearsay

... there's a lot of questions remaining about what actually happened there. I think it's kind of a he said, she said. Um-

I hope they both never do anything again and we never have to hear about them again.

[laughs]

But I, I think that's not gonna be the case.

Well, Will works at the number one ranked restaurant in the world on the, the, the World's Top 50.

Yeah, I guarantee you I don't want to eat at that restaurant, and not because of him.

Wait, uh-

You definitely don't wanna eat there

... does he?

Yeah.

Yeah, he's, he's good.

What is it?

Um, let me find it on my brain.

You tried your, you tried your best to take him down, but he's fine.

Is it in France?

No, it's, it's in the, it's... Is it in India? Is it in, like, Bombay maybe? Let me see.

He had to... Look, he had to go international waters mode, but he did escape you and your wrath eventually.

Yeah. He had a phase of, of posting pretty chaotic stuff about me on Instagram. Really pretty amazing.

Great poster. Great poster. He's one of our greatest posters.

He's a, he's an edge lord.

Yeah.

Did they... Didn't somebody... Did somebody buy your story?

Um, it was optioned for a doc. They didn't, they never do anything with it.

Sure. It's just, I remember you, 'cause I think I talked to you about that.

The re- the restaurant is called Caspers in Bombay.

That's-

Mumbai

... that's the number one restaurant in the world?

Well, a- according to one of the lists.

Okay.

So it's, it's the, the Condé Nast Traveler Restaurant Awards number one restaurant, The Table in Mumbai.

We got so many awards these... I feel like people getting an award, I'm like, what? We got an innovator award. What the f- like, we got... Everyb- every magazine's just giving out awards.

[laughs]

I love it. Give me... I don't, I don't have any fucking awards.

I've never gotten an award. I want, I wanna win, like, a D- I wanna win a, I want to know most songs played in one night DJ award.

Oh, I think you're, I think, I think-

It's-

... 8tracks had you beat-

Songs-

... for 20 years, so you better figure it out

... that's probably true. Yeah.

What's your, what's your... Let's say you have an one hour to DJ and you're playing at one of these quirked up art hoe parties. Uh, how, are we doing one song per minute? Are we doing two songs? One song every 30 seconds? How, how synced are you syncing?

It's probably, like, somewhere in the, in the 30 seconds to a minute, 'cause I'm usually, like, I have, like, a drum track, and then I'm like, "I need to play, like, Cardi over this," and then it, like, doesn't quite work, so I'm like, "Okay, I need-"

Mm-hmm.

You know? And then I'll just keep going until I find, like, the perfect drum track rap vocal, and then I'll just, like, stand there for maybe a minute, and then I'll get bored.

And soak it in.

Yeah.

As the mashup god.

Mm-hmm.

I'm, I'm with you.

The... I did... That's, that's crazy though about Will. I, I didn't know. Yeah, he is, he was, uh, he, he had a great post at one point that was about him converting to J- it was, like, a s- a s- picture of, like, some sort of document saying he'd converted to Judaism, and then it, the caption was, "Ezra Marcus is Hamas."

[laughs]

[laughs]

So not a fan of the story is what you're saying?

I guess not. But it seems like-

[laughs]

... it's worked out for him, so.

I didn't know that you got paperwork when you converted to Judaism. I thought it was more of a spiritual-

Me neither

... exercise. I didn't know, I didn't know you got, like, a stamped, uh, piece of paper.

I mean, I feel like one thing about usJews is we are bureaucratic-

Mm-hmm

... at the end of the day. There's a lot of, uh-

Okay. How do you... Do, do y'all claim Azalea Banks now?

Um, of course. [laughs]

[laughs]

It's huge for us.

Okay. To have her as a, as a soldier on the, on the front lines.

We ne- we needed that. We, we really needed that-

PR was not great-

... with, with everything going on

... and we needed a little boost, and AB brought that. [laughs]

You needed a racist Black chick up in the mix over there in Israel, didn't ya?

[laughs] Yeah, it's-

Yeah

... it's a rare, it's a r-

Kanye, like, meet your match.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The only more chaotic-

Two, two of our greatest Twitter posters to ever live that have both sort of spiraled into hell-

Yeah

... uh, unfortunately for us, the viewers. So, uh, has your family accepted that you voted for Zohran or have you not told them yet?

It's funny. I... They, they're all cool with it. I feel like I... They started out maybe more on, like, the n- not full-blown Netanyahu crazy Zionist, but with, like, you know, a little bit further than your typical person like me would be. And we would g- really get into it, and then as they've sort of, like, come more and more towards the kind of, you know, anti-Zionist side of it, I've had to go... B- because I love getting that reaction out of them, I've had to go further and further into kind of the, into the li- into the extent that the last time I was talking, I was, like, at a family thing, they were like, "So what do you think about everything? What, what do you think should, will happen with the mayor?" Like, "What do you want to happen?" I was like, "We, like... Well, I mean, hopefully, you know, we will be conscripted into, like, Sharia sex communism."

[laughs]

That's, that-

That's the best outcome for us

... and they were like, like, "We will, we will n- New York specifically will nuke Tel Aviv, and we will be-"

[laughs]

And they were like, and, and, and they were like, my, a family member was like, "Well, I disagree, but I can see why you would say that." [laughs]

[laughs]

Just keeping an open level of discourse going, you know, healthy. I was like, "What do I have to say? What do I have to say to make you..." I, I want, I want everyone-

What's going on-

I want everyone screaming at me

... what's going, what's going on with, with Zoe's wife? She feels like a Vice employee, so I feel like somebody we know might've hit before Zoe.

Well, they met on Hinge.

Do you think that's out of the question?

They, they met on Hinge, so she was, she was in the streets.

There's a theory going around in one of my group chats that they're lying, and it was actually Raya, but that looks bad, so they've changed the story to Hinge. O- on the other side of that coin, would Maybach Zoe have been allowed into Raya pre-politics because he's a herb who... I don't know.

No, absolutely not. N- he wasn't... He was a, like, local assemblyman.

[laughs]

That's even le- that's, like, that's the lo- like, that's noth- there's no way that, like, like a-

Well, he's a, he was an assemblyma- he was an assemblyman/rapper. I, I don't wanna take his artistic-

True.

Oh, yeah.

What was his, what was his rap name? It was, like, Big Cardamom or something.

[laughs] No way.

Yeah, it had car- yeah. A lot of people are po- it's pretty funny, actually. Like, Stereogum and websites like that are posting-

I'll find it

... the emails that he sent them.

It is Young Cardamom/Mr. Cardamom.

Wow.

The guy loves cardamom. Damn, bro.

People are... Yeah.

It's fine.

People are posting the emails he sent being like, "Hi, I'm a young rapper from New York. Here's my demo." I'm like, dude, let this guy live, man. Like, we don't need... How many likes are you gonna get on that, you know?

Yeah. I mean, I guess, like, that can be one more amazing feature of our kind of, like, in- incoming, you know, Sharia communism is just, like, Young Cardamom national anthem in the schools every day.

[laughs] Do you think he'll read it? Yeah, do you-

We all have to start listening to J. Cole, government mandated.

[laughs]

You know he loves... Actually, those videos of him at the, like, behind the DJ booth, like, waving his hands in the air, I, I've never seen anything worse. I, I cannot believe, I can't believe that that exists. But I think to win a-

It makes you miss Eric Adams a little bit, doesn't it?

I mean, uh, he-

He knew how to behave himself in the club. [laughs]

What I've learned about politics from Zoe, and I'd, I knew this before, but I guess I realized it on a deeper level, is that you have to be corny to win, and that is just part of the deal. And y- and almost at this point, the more corny, the more, like, viral shows you go on and fucking clubs you go to.

Same thing for actors, you know?

Yeah, but it's, it's, like, it's diff- actors, we don't expect anything from them, 'cause we know they're sort of, like, soulless people looking for fame. Politicians, we sort of-

[laughs]

... expect more from.

You just described a politician, though, with every word that you said describing an actor.

Yeah, but pol- but, but, but politicians are, they're meant to be more than that, but we've n- we now can't allow them to do that. They have to do the same thing that an actor does.

I, I mean, has there ever been a non-corny politician?

No.

Hm.

But I guess there wasn't one that was directly-

George W

... marketed at me.

He's kind of a slick little cucumber.

Yeah.

It's true.

I feel like Z- Zohran is like LCD Soundsystem where it's been forced down my throat, because it's supposed to be for me and my people.

Mm-hmm. [laughs]

And it makes it harder to not be corny when that's the case.

Yeah.

You know?

I think it's something about just, like, millennials taking over the kind of, like, gears of the media apparatus that it's like, finally, we get one, you know? And they're, and it's like millennials are probably the corniest generation just given the confluence of how, just, like-

Yeah

... the stuff that, like, we c- it's this kind of, like, you know, Obam- post-Obama hope stuff I think never really left us at the end of the day. So just finding a way to kind of rebrand that in, like, for the TikTok short form video era-

Mm-hmm

... I think is a recipe for obviously the kind of the corniest video content ever created. But I can also see why it works so well.

Yeah, but I mean, I guess when O- when Obama won, you know, we had Young Jeezy songs about it and, you know, it was like a, a... Like, I don't, I don't see any current rapper writing a song about Zohran. So I think, I think the corn level has really been increased where you c- like, it's, it's good that he's in office, but, like-

He's not gonna be, like, swagged out

Yeah. I don't... It's true. Like, I can't imagine anything worse than, like-

Sneaker shopping with Zeron?

Ken- K- Ken Carson making a song. [laughs]

[laughs]

Oh, damn. We got a new Leon Thomas song coming out-

[laughs]

... about Zeron. This motherfucker changed my life.

[laughs]

That's really... I mean, I think that the Obama thing was a, obviously a much bigger deal 'cause he was president, but-

Sure

... do you think, do you think Ze can take this shit all the way, or do you think he's gonna maybe stop at the Senate or the House and not make it all the way to Pennsylvania Ave?

I thought that he... I, I, I, like, honestly know so little about politics. I looked this up. He- he's ineligible to be president.

Oh, 'cause, 'cause he wasn't born here?

'Cause he wasn't born in the US, yeah.

That seems like a pretty big problem if you have ambition.

Hey, neither was Obama, but he figured it out.

Yeah. [laughs]

Exactly. Good point. Good point, Jason.

[laughs]

Good point. Good point. Damn, I did- I d- I did not know that. That seems like a, um... If you're that, as ambitious as he seems, that- that's reason enough to go into a different field, in my opinion.

True. Maybe by the, by the point in time he's done it, it will be a sort of, like, new kind of global imperium headquartered in, like, the, at n- nowadays, and [laughs] there won't be the-

[laughs]

... pressure anymore.

He can build this into his media empire that will be-

[laughs]

... centered in the Lot Radio parking lot. [laughs]

I guess these guys can't make any money anyway, so the best case is you get famous from being mayor of New York, and then you can do whatever you want and be rich for the rest of your life.

Yeah, it's, it's Meghan Mar- he's Meghan Markle-ing. I'm gonna g- he's gonna get a Netflix show where he goes around with cab drivers, and they s- take him to his favorite spot, and then he goes on a subway and asks them what their take is.

[laughs]

And he can have a rich career doing that, no problem.

I... Dude, we better actually-

Yeah

... Kareem better be looking over his left and right shoulder. This motherfucker's coming for him. That's it. I didn't even think about this.

He said, "I know about cardamoms too, bro."

Damn, I didn't think about this.

We're gonna have, like, a... By the time we're done it'll be, like, Putin in The Hague having subway take at gunpoint. [laughs]

[laughs] I like that. I think we should take it all the way. I wonder how much... I wonder if Zeron's gonna do, like, Hot Ones and shit once it's, like, one... Like, can he get off the hamster wheel of content once he's in office, even though I know it's time to get to work. I wo-

He's gonna get to work, Chris.

I wonder if he's addicted to the shindig, though, you know? If it's, if it's-

Oh

... if it's like, "Shit, I g- I, I gotta do something. What else? Oh, Perfectly Imperfect? Fuck it. I'll do it."

He's like, "The subway system is good, but I'm trying to get my Tiny Desk Concert on."

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

"The Young Cardamom Tiny Desk is what my main objective is right now."

Like, how far could a guy take it, you know?

He needs to do his, his... You know, you guys know the Rogue Arms videos, where it's...

[laughs]

You know what I'm talking about? It's, like, these, like... It's, like, Zoomer vintage store. They're like, "Tell me what you're wearing and how much it cost." And it's like, it's al- it's always, like, they're, they have, like, cat ears and, like, a Li- Labubu that-

[laughs]

And, like... Anyway.

They- they're- they're dressed like North West.

Yeah.

And he's like, "Uh, suit from SuitSupply, tie from SuitSupply."

[laughs]

The Suit Sup- the SuitSupply of it all, I was like, bro, I, you, you, you can't tell people that. You know, you gotta keep that low.

I don't think SuitSu- I think SuitSupply, the, the reputation has, has improved a little bit. I... You... It's on the Real Real. I don't, I don't think it has such a-

That's... No, that's because the Real Real-

... a bad name anymore

... has, is taking all comers. That's not because the SuitSupply has im- improved.

They didn't take my Gant last week, Chris. They draw the line at Gant.

Oh, interesting.

Okay, let's talk about Bitcoin whales. Ezra, you wrote a story, your, your most recent big story. Um, and I w- I was thinking about how when you are a, a billionaire or, or hundred millionaire with Bitcoin, your life is kind of constantly in danger now. You have a team of security that rivals the Migos at any given time. Are you worried that because of your, you know, w- whistleblowing, that you're possibly in danger ever as you're uncovering these massive stones?

No. I've never, I've never felt in any way personally in danger. I mean, I'm afraid of getting sued. That's kind of the wor- the worst I can imagine happening.

Okay. Okay.

Um, I, I don't know. I mean, I think, I think those guys in particular have a lot more to worry about right now than-

Of course. Of course

... just, like, assassinating some-

Has, uh, has anyone ever sent you a phone call or an email saying, like, "You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't dig down this corner if you knew what was good for you," kind of thing?

Honestly, no. I've gotten a lot of legal threats. Um, that's-

Okay

... just sort of, like, bullshit. Like, you know, some ChatGPT lawyer-

Just to scare you off, hopefully.

Yeah. But I've never had someone threaten my life or anything like that.

Well, that ends today. Um-

Yeah. [laughs]

[laughs]

Yeah, there's a lot of hit men who are like, "Wow, I never thought about that. I should hit him up."

Yeah.

It would, it would work. It would work too. [laughs]

[laughs]

Um-

Yeah, fellas, just to let you know, if you tell me to stop, uh, digging, sniffing up that tree, I will immediately stop.

Absolutely.

Has that whole shit... Has the bottom just kind of fallen out of it? I don't pay attention because it's so lame.

Uh, the Bitcoin is still pumping.

No, but, like, I'm saying, like, with the NFT thing where you had friends telling you, "If you don't do this, you're so stupid." I feel like there was a Bitcoin crypto era, like, three, four years ago. It was the same attitude. I don't hear anything about any of that stuff anymore at all-

Yeah. I, I-

... on, on a daily basis

... I think as far as I can tell, and I'm certainly no- not, like, you know, on the forums reading stuff in depth, but the kind of-You know, Bored Ape-

Yeah

... moment and all that came along with that, when it was like, oh, look, Ludacris is playing the Bored Ape party.

[laughs]

It's like that kind of stuff seems, like Paris Hilton's on Kimmel and they've both got their-

Yeah

... apes. Like-

Yeah

... it doesn't seem like there's any attempt... I think what's happened is that there's no longer any attempt to pretend like this stuff is anything other than just a speculative asset. Like, no one's like, "Oh, we're gonna put, put X, Y and Z in the blockchain and we're gonna live our whole life..." No, it's just like it's a fucking thing you can bet on.

Block- blockchain is a word, I mean-

It's gambling.

[laughs]

I don't hear about blockchain at all. Blockchain died a slow death.

I don't, I don't know what it is, but it's definitely-

It's-

... not something that we're gonna be putting-

[laughs]

... various things on anymore, as far as I can tell.

I, uh-

Well, I, I think now that the, the crypto haze has, has lifted and now people are seeing these, these rich whales getting kidnapped and tortured and, you know, having their little... You, you either keep your, your password or, like, you keep it on like a little private hard drive keychain or whatever. It's easier to steal a billion dollars in crypto than it is in cash or, or whatever.

That- that's what's so fascinating about to, about that story to me is, and is that the whole kind of... Like, one of the things that they were, you know, that they were using as a reason why we should all have, have Bitcoin is, like, it's the, we can get away from the banking system, which, like, okay, I guess.

Mm-hmm.

I guess there's somebody for whom that means something. Like, I don't mind going to the bank, whatever.

Hey, bro, I'm tired-

But yeah, [laughs]

... of these guys having access to all my data.

Right.

Okay? We need to get away from this.

And so it's like, okay, fire. You're, you can, you can be the bank. Do you have a s- yeah, do you have a, a massive steel vault-

[laughs] Yeah.

[laughs]

... en- encased around your body at all times? 'Cause if not-

Or do you live in a condo in Miami?

... somebody can just run up on you. Yeah, somebody can just torture you and get your stuff.

If they can take the jewels from the Louvre, they can definitely catch you slipping at Raising Cane's drive-thru tonight.

[laughs]

[laughs]

And you don't, you don't have $37 billion, but if-

Which guy, which guy was it dr-

... if you have a USB stick with 7 million in Bitcoin on it, bro, it's, it's over. But also, w- I know a lot of people who have crypto, who have a g- a good amount of money in, in Bitcoin, and they d- they don't talk about it the same way people don't talk about, "Hey, I have a bunch of jewelry in my safe in my closet right now." It's just like-

Yeah, and I think-

... these are uncertain times

... I think it drives these people crazy because one of the main things that being into Bitcoin early got you was this, like, you know, yacht flexing mode, and not being able-

Yeah

... to do that, it's like pulsing vein and forehead m- meme of like these guys want nothing more than to have their iced out, you know, NFT Bored Ape chain, and now you can't have it.

I mean, they, they say it's, it's not, it's not worth being famous anymore. Back in the day, you get pulled over by the cops, they say, you know, "We'll give you an escort home." The doors of life open up for you as a celebrity, and nowadays it's, it's quite the opposite. You cannot... You, you have zero freedom. You're constantly under surveillance, and it's not enjoyable.

I saw a video this morning of A$AP Rocky jogging in Paris in a full Puma sweatsuit and sneakers, and I was like, "This is the le- this is the worst version of surveillance." Like, this guy, this is embarrassing.

Was he going really fast, or was he just jogging?

It was a pap, it was a pap jog. No, this was a pap. He was wearing a full Puma-

All right

... tracksuit. That was for a Chanel commercial where he got to propose to Margaret Qualley, which is obviously-

Okay. Just wanted to make sure we weren't talking about different A$AP Rocky running videos in the last week.

I'm just like, you, you, people, you really can't do anything anywhere if you have any level of fame. But I think now the rich guys that Ezra's talking about, they do it to themselves on TikTok. Like, they, they're doing it. Like-

Mm-hmm

... no one wants this from them. They're giving it, [laughs] they're giving it to us.

But they're so desperate for pussy, they're willing to put their life on the line to flex off on the yacht.

And a lot of these guys aren't even bad looking. It's like they're not... They're, like, buff, they, they're... You know, but they're just-

One of them look like Joe Camel, but some of them are regular guys, and they need... We need crypto Queer Eye for the crypto guy. Go in there, change your whole shit up. Nobody's gonna wanna steal your shit anymore.

Change your life.

Yeah, I mean, the guys from my story I think were, were by all accounts, like, certainly they were kinda handsome, kinda charming. At certain points in their lives, they were definitely pulling, but I think that they also had a kind of like...

[laughs]

It, to be the kind of person that gets into crypto early, you have, I think that that means that you probably had something seriously wrong with you in the early 2010s.

Yeah, true.

And that never-

[laughs]

... goes away from the psychological perspective.

That's, that's true.

Wow.

That's true. I, you, you gotta spend a lot of time in places that I don't wanna go to get there.

Yeah, I mean, I used to talk about it with DJs all the time, like a dead mouse kind of syndrome where you got a guy who should not be hanging around with mo- drunk models five nights a week. He was not built for it. He was taking apart his PC tower in 2010, not, like, doing bench presses and getting his dick sucked.

[laughs]

So you get the, you get the bends once you, uh, enter the, enter the booth.

There really is a certain kind of guy that builds his own PC.

Yeah. [laughs]

And that's, that's a, that's a very clear line in the sand between guys.

Yeah, and they're not often cocksmen.

[laughs]

[laughs]

You know, building a PC is just like making love to a woman.

I've heard that. I've heard that before.

Okay, I need 3,000 words on that yesterday, Ezra.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Stop what you're doing.

Yeah.

Put down your-

Yeah, so, um, do you, can you give us a sneak peek on, on what you're working on next, your next behemoth? I'm hoping it's NBA poker rooms.

No. I mean, I don't know if I should even... I, th- there is a story that I'm, that I'm chasing that I think a lot of people are chasing, and I mean, honestly, I don't even... I think it's fine. I can just... It's, it's such a big thing in the headlines. I mean, I, and I haven't gotten anywhere with this really, but I'm, I'm fascinated by the, the David story, as I think so many people are.

Yeah.

Um-

Yeah

... like, I don't, you know, if anyone listening knows anything about it, feel f- please get in touch.

I heard, I heard from a, I heard from one of my sources they're, they're hiring people only from, like, private equity and VC-And it's like-

No, no, no. Not, not the, not the protein bar

... they're paying more than-

We're not talking about Da- we're talking about the rapper with the body-

Yeah

... found in his Tesla.

Oh.

Not the protein bar, sorry. [laughs]

Oh.

Oh, I, I love the, I love that you-

Well, I don't give a fuck about that

... like, like holy shit. They have... [laughs]

[laughs]

You're telling me this protein bar has a VC background? [laughs]

Yeah. No, no, no. They're, I, I was hear- I was talking about the hiring process. I was hearing they were paying an unbelievable sum to people, like, to, to lure them over from, like, financial-

Go spend money to make money

... 'cause that's, they're treat-

David's a smart guy

... 'cause you're, like, treating it like that. David, the other story, his h- his homie clearly did it and put the body in the car.

Well-

Um, I also saw that David the-

... sounds like you've got your source

... protein bar, David the protein bar just released a new, a new bar that's just a piece of cod.

[laughs]

That was a, that's called marketing, Ezra. You should, you should look into it.

They sent me the cod.

Any good?

It, it's as good as a piece of frozen fish could be.

Yeah, I don't think that's, I don't think it's meant to be good. But what do you... Sorry, and I, excuse my-

Your grandmother would not have approved of it, but-

Mm

... in a pinch, you know, if I'm doing a-

I'd already for- I-

... put it in a blender and zip it up

... I'd already forgotten about the David the murderer story. Because I feel like if he was guilty, he would be arrested. Do you feel that way?

I mean, I have absolutely no idea. I, I, I, I think I, it is so baffling to me. Um-

Do you think that Donald Trump's team created the David scandal to move away from the Epstein files?

Oh, that's a really good theory.

That is not a good theory.

I hadn't thought about that. [laughs]

That is not a... My theory about David bars is better than that theory. Do not do that.

[laughs]

Trump created other things to distract away from that, but not, not the David thing. He wasn't privy to his music. Yeah, I mean, I d- I agree with you. I think he would've been in custody by now if it actually was him, but it's one of the, d- just like the kid who shot, uh, almost shot Trump's ear off, we don't know a single thing about him, you know?

That one almost makes sense to me. I, I can understand the conspirator- it just seems like he was one of those kids who got, like, Discord, Discord kind of-

Yeah

... radicalized and-

It does, no, it really does f- feel, it does feel strangely online-

Yeah

... for, like, a R&B rap. Like, that, that doesn't cross over in my mind, but he's young.

For, for, for a minor to be found decomposing in the, in a famous person's car, quote-unquote famous person, that's a, that's a h- juicy story. And if they give zero follow-up to it, yeah, I mean, everyone wants to know. We need the 3,000-word Cut article on it yesterday.

Imagine if they sent one of the-

Clock's ticking

... if they sent someone from The Cut to write about that, how funny that would be.

[laughs]

I mean, anyone would. I mean, that's a, it's a huge story. So many unans-

Yeah

... whenever that happens, an underage murder and a famous person.

I, I do wonder though, Ezra, where do you th- like, do you think that Rolling Stone's spending a much... Like, who, I mean, it, it, 'cause it's so, it's kinda niche. Like, that doesn't work for like-

Mm-hmm

... Vanity Fair. It's a little too-

L.A. Times, New York Times feels, feels right.

L- L.A. Times, L.A. Times, people barely let their dog piss on that. New York Times maybe.

SFGate, is that what you want, Chris? I'm sorry.

Yeah, no. I just, I don't know what, I don't know where it would actually resonate besid- I mean, yeah, I guess besides The New York Times. I don't know who else would actually do it.

basic.

Yeah, I don't know.

TMZ.

I mean, I'm, I'm working on it, but-

It'd be, it would cool if TMZ started doing heady, thousand-word articles like The Cut that someone wrote about.

You guys should launch, you guys should launch a, a investigative editorial arm. You guys should have a, a quarterly-

Man, if Chris, if Chris got to get his-

If what?

If Chris w- got to be, you know, uh, the editor-in-chief of a Just Jared style-

[laughs]

... gossip blog or paparazzi website, that's honestly his final form. That's the best-

That is, that is my final form

... job for your skills.

Zendaya stuns.

[laughs]

Yeah. My problem is I don't care about David or what happened to him or the, the... You know what I mean? It's, it's interesting on some level, but, like-

If it was Kid Cudi, you'd be paying more attention. I didn't know who David was before the story.

I knew who David was before the story because I listen to Joe Budden, and that's the only reason, though.

Okay. Okay.

Like, 'cause it's, like, an R&B sleeper, you know?

[laughs]

It's not like, it's, it's not, it's not because I, I love it so much, but-

He wa- he was bubbling in the underground.

Well, all right. L- Ezra, let's get you out to, let's get you out to Tarzana or wherever his house was-

[laughs]

... and you can start sniffing around in the garbage for clues.

Yeah, come on, bro.

That's the fun part.

What do you guys think I should, I should investigate?

I mean, the, the NBA gambling, the, I mean-

Pablo Torre's already done it, I feel like.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But he's doing day-of podcasts about it, whereas Ezra does the 18-month investigative journalism piece, and it's, it's a different story. But, uh, that's al- like when I was saying, like, are you worried about your safety when you start sniffing around, you know, crime families and mafia ties, that's when you get the phone call, you know?

Yeah. I mean, th- that seems like... 'Cause there, I was reading about that other, maybe the same, there's like a Israeli mafia-backed poker game scandal that I was just like, I can't imagine-

Oh

... a scarier person to be dealing with than, like, a Hollywood Hills private poker game-

Yep

... Israeli mafia guy, uh, trying to collect.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's not th- yeah, that's not great.

Mm-hmm.

That's not great.

It's a room you do not want to be found in.

I also think the NBA stuff, there's people that, I feel like you find stuff that's pretty niche in a really, and make it, like, interesting and, like, further-reaching than it should be.

Yeah.

Whereas the NBA thing, there's 1,000 guys at ESPN that have dedicated their entire life to basketball, and they're frothing at the mouth, you know what I mean? It's like a, it's too popular almost.

Yeah. I also feel like it's, in a way, I mean-... kind of run-of-the-mill. It's like, yeah, they're ripping people off at private poker games. Like, no shit. It, I d- it seems like that's-

[laughs]

That seems to be from just from seeing what professional poker players have been saying about it. They're like, "Yeah, if you're going to one of these games-

That's what's happening

... that's what's happening."

Right, right, right.

Yeah.

I think the, I think the intrigue o- only starts because the players were throwing-

Yeah

... games.

For sure.

And then you see clips of them throwing the games, and it's super obvious they were throwing the games.

I, I think the other intriguing part to me, sorry Ezra, is, is when you see these people who have contracts where they're getting paid hundreds of millions of dollars a year and they're so addicted to gambling that they're willing to throw it all away for, you know, 20 grand-

That's-

... or whatever-

Yeah

... yeah, with these, with these, like, weird things, you know? And like to, to be like how could your head get into that situation as a rich person?

Well-

You know, that's what I wanna read about.

That's ... It's true, and it's always sort of like there's, it's like their random friend is the one. It's like, "Oh, yeah," like-

[laughs]

"I'm g- I'm telling my, like-

"My random translator interpreter from Japan just got me into this, man."

[laughs] Right.

I think that the ... I th- I mean, I think that the, the gambling taking over our world is the most interest- Like, the fact that you can-

Mm-hmm

... gamble on anything, anytime, anywhere, I think this is just a symptom of that at a, at a very high level. But I think it's like-

Mm-hmm

... there are guys like us that have ruined their entire lives s- gambling on their phone, like, while they're at work.

Yeah.

That's crazier to me.

I was thinking about that with, with these, these new companies like Polymarket and, and Kalshi and just, like, what is the future of that? Like, will it... 'Cause obviously what those companies are trying to do is, is make it so that every single facet of your life can, can have a wager on it. And I had this idea-

Mm-hmm

... in the shower of, like, what if, like, you know, you're gonna go to the gym, and it'll be like the Kalshi gym, and they're gonna, like, give you odds on your weight loss goals or whatever. Or, like, you'll be able to bet-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... on, like ... Or like, oh, somebody's at this, like, fucking, like, you-name-it celebrity. Like, MrBeast is, is, like, will he hit his, his weight loss goal? I, I g- like five to one or something like that.

Right. And then I could go in and be like w- I, I, you can predict the day MrBeast is gonna be assassinated, and it's a, you know-

Yeah

... it's a million and one long shot. If that, if that parlay hits, you're the richest guy in the world. Or I think about that all the time, like, you know, will, will, how many streams will 2Hollis have by 2027? Or what, you know, just, like, bet ... Being bullish on just everything.

Like, every single thing that happens is going to essentially-

A- anything

... be something that somebody else can make money on, which is fascinating.

It'll be the only, it'll be the only way to make our lives interesting is when there's some money on-

All right, Jason. That, that being, that being the case, what are, what are the odds on when Ezra's next story comes out? I'm giving it three to six months. What do you wanna-

I take the over. I take the over on that.

Okay, so it's November n-

[laughs]

[laughs]

I was gonna say March 6, 2026.

Okay. All right. Th- th- no, that's, that's, that's fair. I think that's fair.

That's what? Five months.

Ezra feels confident there. I can see him shaking his head. He seems, he feels good about that.

That's, that's ambitious.

[laughs]

[laughs]

I'm on a, I'm on a kind of, like, I'm on kind of, like, a w- two-a-year pace these days.

Okay.

Okay.

Um-

All right, so we could push it a little deeper.

Lotta, lot of time to practice your DJ-ing, your beat matching there, Ezra.

Mm-hmm.

All right. Like-

[laughs]

Ezra, thank you for joining us on How Long Gone. People can find you on the World Wide Web.

And for a guy who only writes two stories a year, he has a lot of stories written. And they're all, you know, big and-

They're, they're great. I love 'em. I love, I love-

They're all big and long and thick.

Wow.

[laughs]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Damn.

I don't s- I don't see anything wrong with that.

Exactly. [laughs]

Yeah. No lies detected, mama. Okay, Ezra.

[laughs]

Thank you for, for chatting-

Thanks, bro

... with us. Hope you had a fun time.

My pleasure. Thanks, guys. Take care.

Funky steps. Work, work, work, work, work, work. Let me see you work, work, work, work, work, work. You see me do me dirt, dirt, dirt, dirt, dirt, dirt. So I'mma let it work, work, work, work, work, work. I know you wanna work, work, work, work, work, work. Let me see you work, work, work, work, work, work. You see me do me la, la, la, la, la, la. But you can have your nerve, nerve, nerve, nerve, nerve. Join me and deserve it.

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