894. - Chris & Jason

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian, and they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world, and they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. [upbeat music] How Long Gone. [can opening] It's Chris Black and, uh, Jason "Vimjin" Sueur coming to you live from [sigh] the Hard Rock Hotel Riviera Maya. Wilco Sky Blue Sky Festival is in full swing. It's the last day. We're both wearing shorts.

Mm-hmm. Cancun.

What, what's up, big dog?

We're in the dead of winter. It's 80 degrees, humid as a t- as a tit mouse.

Mm.

Yeah, we just finished... We, we just went, came straight off stage with our security detail-

[laughs]

... back to room 120, [laughs] 1233.

Where the players famously dwell.

We're, we're in a room that has interesting decor. I was looking at this headboard. I feel like I've been staring at this headboard all week, no homo, but you've been podcasting, taking, or important Zoom meetings with clients internationally with this, I guess it's a silver-

It looks like a-

It looks like a l- a guitar strap

... it looks like a bastardized version of the Prince symbol or like a weird-

Mm

... tattoo that Tommy Lee would have somewhere on his leg.

Mm.

It's sort of-

And we have, we have a nice bathtub. You and I have the same tub.

What I'm realizing right now as we're doing this, as we're surveying the land here-

Mm-hmm

... is that technically I could be podcasting from tub.

Tub thumping?

I could be tub thumping.

Yeah, you could podcast from the tub. Bad acoustics. That tub is a bass trap. We know that, and not in a good way. Bass trap.

[laughs] Sure, sure. No, I, I, I of course know that. I famously know that.

Yeah, you know that shit.

I famously know that.

Yeah. Yeah, we just finished rocking it. We did a, we did a live podcast in the lobby on a Sunday morning, afternoon, so it felt churchian. It felt mega churchian. Felt like Drewsky was gonna be showing up in his Christian Dior blazer.

[laughs] Oh, man, all the pastors coming out now being like, "No, no, that shit's funny. I'm all good with it."

Mm.

Like they, like TMZ's like interviewing the guys it's based on. They're like, "Oh, no, no, that's, I'm, we're fine with this."

[clears throat] Beautiful.

"We're fine with this. We like it."

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure they're fine with it as they're using $100 bills to take the fucking-

Totally

... get the short ribs out of their teeth after they hit Ruth Chris.

[laughs] Ah.

It could've been any restaurant, Tony Roma's, we'll call it.

No, of course, of course, of course.

Yeah, we were, we had a great show with Katie Waxahatchee, Jake, MJ Lenderman. We, we interviewed them, played a couple songs, did a Lemonheads cover and a Gin Blossoms cover-

That's right

... with Chris Black on vocals. If you want the video footage of Chris singing, follow my OnlyFans.

[laughs] We can see, so you can get some feet too. Just draw, just, you know, figure out what your subscription-

It's all there. Under titty happens as well.

We did. Yeah, we decided to... 'Cause I've been here for a while, like I've been here since Thursday, 'cause I wanted to, 'cause Katie played on Thursday, and it was sort of the, um, last show of the Tiger's Blood-

Mm-hmm

... tour.

Sure.

So I was like, I feel like I should try to make it if I can. And she did the full, the band was like 10 people on stage, 'cause everybody was into it. It was like, "Fuck it."

Mm-hmm.

"Everybody's gonna play." Um-

Yeah, this festival, very incestuous. Everyone's getting up on stage-

Honestly, that's the cool-

... playing with each other

... it's cool. Like I think it's actually quite cool.

And it's smart to do that. W- similar to when you're on a cruise-

Yeah

... whether you're on a Hard cruise or a Weezer cruise or a 311 cruise or a Slightly Stupid cruise, the fact that you're, you're trapped in there and there's, there's nothing else to do except hang out and talk to your fans who are drunk-

Mm-hmm

... or get on stage-

I-

... and play music to avoid your fans.

I can, technically I can play mandolin, sure. I'll come up.

[laughs]

Yeah, it was a, it's, I think there's a, I talked to Spencer Tweedy last night. He's like, "Yeah, there's something going on in the Facebook group about the festival," being like who's gonna sit in more, Spencer or Jake?

Mm.

And he's like, "Right now Jake's in the lead."

There's a poll?

Yeah, and if he comes out, if he comes out with Wilco tonight, then he will win. [laughs]

I love that it, it really is fitting for the Wilco fan base where every other thing it's like, "Let's see what the Reddit has to say. Let's see what the Stans are up to on Twitter."

[laughs]

But for Wilco it's like, "There's a Facebook group."

Yeah. [laughs] Which one of these little cuties is gonna sit in more?

That, that both of our moms are in probably.

[laughs] Yeah, yeah. It's def-

Where they share like needlepoint-

It's, it's so-

... patterns and, and, uh, chili reci-

It's-

... vegan chili recipes

... it's very wholesome. But, but we, we concocted this idea, and then I wanted to do Gin Blossoms, and Jake didn't really know-

You presented it to the team over at Cloud9

... I presented it to the team-

Bower Presents

... I presented it to the team at Bower Presents. No, Ka- Jake was like, "I don't really know that." Katie was like, "Let's get E- Eric Slick is our friend who's in Dr. Dog."

Shout out, Eric.

He's the drummer in Dr. Dog, but a- an amazing drummer and musician. She was like, "He can literally play anything."

Mm-hmm.

"So let's get him involved." And then they did the Lemonheads on their own, because I think that, you know, when they sing together it's quite special. When I sang it's, it's punishment for the crowd.

I'll say it, they're better at singing than you are.

[laughs] Don't-

But you tried hard, and you, you-

I gave it a valiant effort.

Couldn't be me. You're a better man than I, I'll tell you that.

It wa-

I was too scared to play the fucking shaker.

I don't know, it's because when you hang out with people that are that good, they really, I think they would tell me if I shouldn't do it.

Mm.

But they also gas you up a little bit because it's fun for them.

But also I think-

'Cause we do shit with our eyes closed

... I think anyone listening who knows you w- also wants to see you up there on stage kinda squirming a little bit.

Yeah. It's absolutely-

Feet to the fire

... it's absolutely-

It's fun to watch Chris Black suffer at any moment whatsoever.

I suffer every day in my own mind, but sometimes it's visible, sometimes it's not

Check on your friends. Depression is real

Check on your friends. Check out betterhelp.com. Um, but yeah, I, I, we've been at... I've b- So I've been at a Hard Rock resort-

Mm

... for four days.

Mm-hmm.

And, um-

Have you, um, accidentally drank the water from the faucet when you're doing a teethbrush or a shower-

No, I'm-

... water thing?

I mean, I don't-

You been good about it?

It's weird. I don't get... I don't care about shit like that. Like, people are so paranoid about that, and I believe it to be real, but I don't think about that kinda stuff at all.

You are built different.

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fill up my bottle from the tap, but I'm also-

Mm-hmm

... not gonna be like, "Ew."

Little bit gets in your eye-

Yeah

... no biggie.

Yeah.

Do you, do you douche with bottled water, or you just use-

Always.

Okay.

Well, I brought Evian. I shipped Evian down for the douching.

[laughs]

But otherwise I'm kinda-

I saw somebody got their, their douche squeeze bottle autographed by Charlie. That's the most-

[laughs] I saw that too.

[laughs]

It's so fucking funny.

He should have released Green-

Yeah

... Green Squeezers.

Brant Green Squeezers would have gone hard.

Brant Green Squeezers is a definitely, like, a, a roller derby team.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Brant Green Squeezers. Yeah, I did, I did, I did see that. That's good stuff.

Yeah, so, um, what happened? Yeah, I was... On Friday, while you were already here down in Cancun, we had a house party to celebrate Carolyn's-

Mm

... birthday. Had a bunch of people over, a lot of creatives in the area.

[laughs]

Cool, cool people and whatnot.

Lots of local creatives came over to our house to imbibe.

I think ano- I, I just wanted to get that on record so she can write it all off as a networking environment.

Every- everything's a work. Right now we're in ca- We're being paid to network right now, baby.

Mm-hmm.

You gotta open your third eye.

Yeah, I mean, the fact that this is all-inclusive means that I... There's nothing to write off.

Okay.

And the problem is I didn't... I should have brought small bills.

I have some.

Yeah?

A few, yeah.

Can you... You're the house. I need you to change me out.

I can... I don't know about that.

Give you 200?

I'll just give you... I'll just break you off, if I have to.

Can you just give me all the rest of the money you have left?

Yeah. Honestly-

[laughs]

... I mean, yeah, I don't think I have that much.

Okay, I got it.

I probably got 100 bucks maybe.

I'm... Yeah, 'cause I'm transacting more so. And, you know, you're, you're a real douche nozzle if you're at the all-inclusive resort-

Yeah, that's it

... and a nice, you know, a nice young lady goes to the bar, brings you a, a Modelo, cracks it open, puts a lime in there, hands it to you, and then you say, "Hey, scram, señorita."

They, they have-

You gotta give them a cinco.

This place is staffed the fuck up.

Yeah, it's good.

Staffed the fuck up.

It's beautiful. But I f- I mean, I, I... Even though I didn't... I guess it's because I didn't pay $7,000-

Yeah

... for a ticket to come here, 'cause I feel like at that point then you feel as if you need to get your money's worth more so. But since I'm, uh, I got a full scholarship here-

Mm

... you know, I, I don't feel as if I'm indebted enough to the system, so I'm- I'm tipping-

Yeah

... I'm tipping heavy. I'm t-

No, I think that's a-

I'm tipping like Cobra Snake-

Y- yeah, that's-

... walking through Aria.

[laughs] I think that is the... That's the right thing to do.

But, I mean, come, uh, coming down here to an all-inclusive, that's the only... You have to leave America to spend American cash. It's the only place I've transacted with, with paper bills in the last year.

Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think of-

Other than, like... It's, like, it's drug dealers and, and tipping people-

Uptown

... in other countries.

Actually, we were upstate in Kingston, and I paid with cash a couple times.

For real?

It felt... Yeah, I don't know why. I just fe- Sometimes I was... 'Cause we were at, like, a restaurant and I had cash.

Mm-hmm.

And I was like, "You know what? I bet this person will be happy-

Mm

... to put a $20 bill in their pocket instead of-

Sure

... get tipped out later."

Yeah, but when you get the 20, what do you even do with it, you know? It doesn't even feel like real money.

I mean, the thing is, if you work in a restaurant or in, in the service industry, I'm sure you have a situation. I'm sure you ha- regularly visit the bank to make deposits.

Mm.

Which is annoying, but-

This is some good podcasting, you guys. [laughs] Um, yeah, so we, uh, did that. We partied hard and got a nice cake from our good friends at Quarter Sheets.

God, I can't wait to go back. I've been, I've... It's... Unfortunately now I'm... Every LA trip starts and ends with Quarter Sheets.

I mean, we'll go. Just let m-

Yeah.

You're gonna be in LA in a couple weeks.

soon. Yeah, yeah. G- Grammy party.

I'll sort out the rizz.

I love it. I went l- I went la- Yeah, been the last two trips.

We s- we... I went for the challenging cake offering.

What's the challenging cake offering?

It was m- makrut lime and pineapple, which is sort of a c- Which is the new way of calling the kaffir lime leaf.

Oh, okay, okay, okay.

Because that's considered offensive now.

Really?

Yeah.

Huh, I didn't know that.

So, so kaffir... Yeah, yeah, for all of our foodies out there, we're not saying kaffir... It, it's-

I've never said-

Kaffir lime leaf-

I've never s-

... is the new master bedroom we'll say it.

Oh, okay. I've never-

Or it's like one of those things where some people abide, some people don't.

It's the primary leaf from now on.

It's the primary leaf.

I've never said that word out loud because I was always afraid I was gonna say it incorrectly.

Say what word? Makrut lime?

No.

Kaffir-

Yeah

... lime leaf?

Kaffir feels like-

Which is also a bacteria-rich-

Yes

... yogurt drink.

Yes. It's an, a classic how long ago on case so they also have a split seven inch with catharsis, but it is, [laughs] it is, it is-

Kaffir and orchid 10 inch?

Yeah, [laughs] kaffir orchid 10 inch. Oh, I actually got marble.

It's a, it's, it's, it's a tomato, tomato. It's a kaffir, kaffir.

Yeah. It feels like I ca- It just feels like something that I, I don't... It doesn't come up a lot in my life, and I could make a mistake-

Mm

... so I avoid it.

But it's one of those interesting things where you can kinda... It's a tell on how, uh, knowledgeable somebody is with, with sort of geopolitics and-

Yeah

... how international and worldly they are if they, if they don't understand why-

Yeah

... that word could be offensive or not.

Yeah. With this, the... Was it, the cake, delicious?

It was, but the, the flavor of that lime leaf is often used in, you know, Thai curries and, uh-

Oh, okay

... you know, Indonesian, Southeast-

Okay

... Asian kinda flavor. So it's a very pronounced-

Yeah

... pungent, specific flavor that's, that's really delicious. But to have it so prominent-

In a cake

... in a cake... It was funny, Miles Hendrick-

Yeah

... friend of the show, who's from Australia, so you know, not, not far from Bali-

They just eat whatever over there

... and those things, so he's, he's used to that flavor. And-Just nobody, nobody disliked the cake, but it was, it was almost like a hallucinogenic experience for many people. They were just like-

This is an extremely TJ choice

... like, "How was it?" And they're like, "That was the most interesting cake-"

Yeah

... "I've ever tasted in my life." Like, "Was it bad?" They're like, "No." "Was it good?" "It was very interesting."

That's cool, though. I, I appreciate... I don't know what it is, but I appreciate that more in a dessert form.

Mm-hmm.

Because I feel like it's so easy to hit a home run with, like, chocolate and peanut butter-

Sure

... and caramel or whatever. But the... Okay, this brings me to the Al Roker viral moment-

Mm

... where former big boy Al Roker said that he squeezed a little lime on his Biscoff to get a little key lime stank-

[laughs]

... in 1C.

Which is, which is jail-

Very. It's very Fifi.

It's g- it's giving, it's giving Fifi-

It's Fifi coded

... and it's, it's giving Cast Away.

[laughs]

Like, where you're, you're, you're, you have heat stroke, you're delusional.

But my, my question is-

And you're like, "I'm just gonna squirt this lime on this Biscoff cookie that fell out of a, a crashed plane."

I would, I would try that, but I feel like to do that, to get the key lime feel you're really looking for, there needs to be a whipped cream in play.

Uh-

Like, uh, can you imagine a bowl of Biscoff, crushed up Biscoff?

Al Roker says this: Do you want abs or not?

Yeah, no, of course. Yeah.

The difference is the cream.

Yeah. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

Three times a week, and I, I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at [laughs] Stateside.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's three times a week, and, and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say.

[laughs]

Give, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, "You're fine," you know, "Drink more water."

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly.

That's about it.

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[laughs]

So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go. SuperPower is more comprehensive and advanced system out there.

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'Cause I've had a sundae on a plane once or twice 'cause it felt, they bring the cart around-

Mm-hmm

... and it's such a fun thing to do.

Be a fool not to at 30,000.

But I gotta a- the idea of sort of like a cereal bowl full of Biscoff and whipped cream with lime squeezed all over it sounds fucking delicious. [laughs]

Well, I've done... I've, I've, Carolyn and I have made some, some tarts like that where you do, like, the graham cracker crust-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... or whatever, but you, yeah, you get a box of Bis- uh, Biscoffs, put them in the food processor-

Oh, and then you make the cru-

... mix, mix it with a bunch of brown butter-

I see. I see

... make the crust, put a little whipped cream on there-

That sounds great

... some fresh raspberries or whatever on top.

You know when I'm in town, so just, you know-

Just bomb as hell

... I, you know, just give me half to take home.

Yeah.

I didn't get any thumbprints, so.

But also we're both gonna be on a Delta flight tomorrow, home of the Biscoff, and they will have lime, so we need to hold-

I'll try it

... hold each other accountable.

I'll try- [laughs]

And, uh, unless both have them.

The guy next to me, I'm just smashing the... [laughs] I mean, I, I feel, it feels a little bit like, the way I'm imagining-

I'm gonna order it as a Roker just to see if the flight attendant does-

Can I get a Roker to g- to... I think that the... I imagine it like, you know, when sometimes you see a person, this feels rare to see in public, but when you take the old school ketchup packet and you squeeze a single cocaine style line on the fry.

[laughs]

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It feels like you would have to do that. You'd have to pick up the Biscoff in its full form factor, squeeze to cover, and then chomp down, and it's, it feels a little, you know, feels like eating a banana, if you know what I'm saying. [laughs]

I do know what you're saying.

I just feel like s-

I know exactly what you're saying

... I feel like it's a little too much, and on the plane, obviously, all rules are out the window because people behave like... We should talk about my flight down here. It's a cra- one of the craziest flights I've ever been on.

I mean, I ate a microwave Shake Shack burger, so yeah, people behave like savages at 30,000 feet.

I was sitting in a window seat, which is my least favorite thing because it causes left shoulder issues for me, 'cause I feel like it's-

You should go on the... If you download the Delta app, it lets you choose your seat just next time.

What?

[laughs]

So I, so I'm in, I'm in Comfort Plus window.

[laughs]

I'm next to two guys, regular sized guys, so it was, it was cool. Everybody's cool. He's, you know, this g- gay guy next to me is listening to Call Her Daddy, and I'm like, "You should check out How Long Gone."

Oh, wow, okay.

So he's listening to Amy Poehler in Call Her Daddy.

You give him the hung smile and said, "Hey, here's my card."

And then there's another guy watching, like, fucking, you know, F1 videos.

Mm.

It's all good.

Mm-hmm.

There's a guy, there's a family, and it's a guy, like a loudmouth Brooklyn, the most annoying fucking New York Nico character you've ever seen.

Mm-hmm.

He's got-... three little badass kids-

Mm-hmm

... a wife, and a grandmother. He's with two kids. The other kid is older, back with the wife and grandmother.

Mm.

And this motherfucker-

[laughs]

... is talking li- like, he's like joking about how bad it's gonna be to the entire plane. He's like, "Sorry, guys, you're gonna have to deal with the circus."

Oh.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I was like, all right, all right, fucking all right, all right. This is gonna-

[laughs]

I'm like, this is gonna be bad. This guy thinks he's doing fucking standup.

Right.

The kids are just screaming like crazy. They have s- Post-it Notes. They've covered the screen, the walls. Post-it Notes are everywhere. They're fucking coloring.

[laughs]

He's e- he's eating. He's got the kids' headphones on. He's texting. He's playing a game. Kids are just wiling out.

[laughs]

At one point, one of the kids, shirt off, just walking up and down the aisle-

[laughs]

... [laughs] of the plane, and nobody... This is what I mean, though. This is where society's gotten, where it's like everybody is so afraid to say... No one said anything.

Mm.

The staff didn't say anything.

Mm.

And to me, this was like... I, I don't like to-

It was over the line.

It was over the line.

Mm-hmm.

And like, if I would've been sitting next to them, I'd have been like, "Bro, are you for real?"

Yeah.

'Cause this guy wasn't like a hint guy. Like, this guy wouldn't-

Mm

... he wasn't sensing that the entire plane was looking at him like, "Are you-"

Subtleties are lost on him.

Completely lost. And then we get off the plane. He's, he literally has to ask the steward for a, his own trash bag to clean up all of the fucking mess that his, his children-

Well, I mean, I guess it's nice that he's doing it himself. That's-

That is nice, but it was just like-

[laughs]

... it was unbelievable. And there, and then there was a guy that, that I shared a car with, one of the guys from Barry Presents. Shared, we shared a car, and we were on the same flight, and we realized it, and we were both like, "Bro."

[laughs]

"I've never seen anything like that." And he was like, "Dude, I fly all the time. I've never seen anything like that in all of my-"

Damn

... in all of my years.

You know, it's, it's funny. A lot of our listeners are now probably rewatching Mad Men now that it's available on streaming again.

Oh, is that why people are-

Mm.

I thought-

I think that's why it's back in the zeitgeist-

Okay

... and, uh, why, you know, young people, Gen Z is, is rediscovering it now.

Can I see a picture of Jon Hamm with the two perfect eggs and a fork at the-

Mm-hmm

... Chateau Marmont-

Mm-hmm

... one more time? Yeah.

Yeah, we all... 'Cause we all use forks to make fried eggs.

I didn't wanna say it. I didn't wanna say it, but...

Yeah, I mean, great photo of Jon Hamm, that son of a bitch.

Great photo. Great photo.

But that's, that's of a time where you, if, if you had a child that was behaving badly like that, and a stranger, man or woman-

Mm-hmm

... reprimanded your child for misbehaving in public verbally or physically, you thank that stranger for whacking your kid-

Yeah

... in public, because they were fucking up.

You're helping me out.

And this w- and this was the thing that, I mean, obviously bad stuff happened back then, but e- even in our childhood, you know, in the, in the early '80s-

Definitely. Oh, definitely

... when we were kids, like, if you were acting up, and, you know, a, a grandma gives you a, a whack on the back of the head 'cause you're being a jackass, your mom would say-

We keep it moving

... "I'm so sorry. Thank you. Sorry about my kid," versus-

W-

... like, "I'm calling the police."

What is fascinating now is I think that, especially with all of the sort of like grown men watching TikTok in public, no headphones thing-

[laughs]

... I think, I think we've hit a point with all this stuff, and I'm obviously guilty of this right this second, where it's m- it's m- it's a content creation situation versus, like, an actual real life. Like, if you s-

Mm

... if you sit next to a f- on a flight for three hours, and a guy watches TikTok the whole time, you choose not to say anything, but you take a sneaky picture of him, and then post on Twitter about it.

Yep. Yeah.

And that is unfortunately where we're at. We're never gonna be- we're never gonna change our behavior if we're not self-policing it.

And the, the, the, and also the problem is when you see somebody in danger, a medical emergency-

It's-

... something like that, you're more inclined to, to film it than to-

It used to just be world-

... than to help

... it used to just be world star, and now it's everybody.

World star was w- we, we didn't know what we had when we had-

We did not

... world star. Because before, something like that would happen, and it would say, "We need a doctor. Somebody, you know, rip my shirt off and use it as a tourniquet to help this person." And now it's just like, "Oh, shit, that grandma just got hit in the head by a, a, a, you know, a crazy guy with a sledgehammer. This is gonna be-"

Yeah.

"This is gonna go loco on my reels." [laughs]

My numbers are going up. I'm actually a little short on rent this month. I didn't expect this to go viral. If you could Venmo me.

Yeah, so people out there, you, we have to start taking action.

I want, I, I really want to, and I think I-

You gotta say... I mean, the classic move is the, when you have the drunk wife or girlfriend, and you go to the h- the husband or boyfriend, "If you don't shut her up, I will."

Of course.

That kind of move, which is instant fight.

It, that's my, that's the issue.

Instant fight.

Like, if I, I feel like I want to be mature enough to be able to... I think I could do it.

Do you think that happens a, a, a, in, in, gay spaces? Like, you're at The Eagle or at, you're at, you're at a gay bar, and someone's twink is mouthing off, and you go up to his bear zaddy, and you say, "If you don't, if you don't shut her up, I will"?

Yeah, and it ends in a three-way on the floor.

[laughs]

That's the difference. There's no- everybody wins in that situation.

If you don't shut her up, I will, with my hard, throbbing cock.

[laughs] Fine. Get down. But I just think that, I think that-

Wait.

[laughs]

Down?

Hold on. Are you hitting on me?

[laughs]

I think that the, I think that the... I want to be mature enough for that ki- to be able to approach that situation and it not devolve into some sort of altercation. I don't think I'm there yet.

Mm.

But I, I, I want to get there, because I f- I feel like we really could self-poli... Everybody's so on edge.

Mm-hmm.

If we got comfortable with that, I think society would operate better.

It would be the breaking of eggs-

Yeah

... to make that omelet, but the omelet does have to get made. Uh, what if you reframe it in, in a cuck kind of way, where you say, "If you don't shut my bitch wife up for me..." [laughs]

[laughs] Like, "What?"

"Shut my bitch wife up, or I will." [laughs]

Or else. Or else, yeah.

They're gonna be like, "Wait a minute."

Hold on.

"Is this good?"

Hold on. I think I like this.

Um, yeah, when I was on the plane, it was m- a much better experience. I had a, I had a large person next to me who was an un... She was a, she was in a bad mood, Big Mama.Left the, left the, the window open the whole time and l- and looked at the flight map type of shit, just, like, upset. But I was in the aisle, and she never got up to pee one time, so-

Okay

... I'm gonna take it as a dub.

That's a dub.

But, um, there was, obviously we're, we're traveling from LA to Cancun, so the type of folks on this flight-

Yeah, it's a, it's a audience. It's a crowd

... it was where, um, it was, it was, you know, we're all going through the 2016 revival flashback-

We need to get into that

... which we will, and this is, this is a classic TJ segue. But 2016 is, is alive. You know, like on Portlandia, the s- the spirit of-

Mm-hmm

... is alive in Portland, the spirit of 2016 is alive on the flight from LA to Cancun, Tulum, any of these-

Do you see a clap your hands, say yeah T-shirt or something?

No, no, no, this is re- this is real shit.

[laughs]

This was, this was, like, pretty hot mom wearing the crew neck sweatshirt. It's not a fear of God, it's not park with an E, it's spiritual gangster.

Oh, hell yes.

Taking it back.

I forgot about spiritual gangster.

When you see, like, a kind of hot mom wearing spiritual gangster hoodie, and then the best part was, hopefully somebody's not listening to this, I don't... hopefully this is not your chick. But you know when some people, women, will have a tattoo maybe on their forearm or whatever, on their back?

You mean a heartbeat with a line? [laughs]

It's, it's, it's in that vein, but it's all the moon patterns.

Oh, hell.

You know, the full moon, the crescent moon-

W-

... the half moon, the little... But, but all it was, it was running down the back of the leg of the flared yoga pant.

We call that the Abbott Kinney where I come from.

That's, that's the Tulum little toss around piece right there.

That's, that's Tuluminati streets.

To bel- yeah, belong to the Tulu- to the... [laughs]

Bro, what? So you're telling me that the moon-

So yeah, on, on the-

... the moon phase-

... left leg and right leg, the wide flared yoga pants, uh, it's made out of, like, the same material that, like, an all lives matter, like-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... a neck gator would be made out of. Like-

That's-

... you know, like Timo Textile, like-

That is actually-

... cancer fabric

... extremely twisted.

And then the moon pattern's all up whole back of the leg, which is similar to taking it back to 1996 when you get the badass chick who's got the two bows tattooed-

Oh, classic

... on the, just underneath the ass.

That's a classic hardcore-

That's the Tulum version of that. What that says to the fellas, "Dinner is served."

[laughs] Ding, ding, ding.

For my Pilates shit, serve the platter.

We're open for business.

Serve that platter.

[laughs] We got served.

[laughs]

Ah, we serve the platter.

[laughs]

That is... that's actually a-

When you pair that with the spiritual gangster hoodie, and you know we're walking with the best.

Was she fit?

She was fit.

That's my thing with spir-

She was a trim bird

... that's my thing with spiritual gangster. You need to be... if you're gonna wear that-

[laughs]

... you gotta be-

How Long Gone rule number one

... you gotta have a rig, 'cause that is just-

[laughs]

... that s- that's just-

Not a lot of menswear podcasts are, are-

[laughs]

... are willing to talk about this angle of fashion.

Not this many streetwear podcasts out there are gonna say this.

Get into the trenches.

No, I think that is a f- that's an insane look. I forg- I had really forgot. Spiritual gangster was everywhere, but it has been-

Spiritual gangster with the moon pattern flare pants, you already know head game. Bananis.

Oh. [laughs] Oh, God, no, bro. You f-

Banani.

[laughs]

She grab the cacahuates and does some shit that you ain't never had before.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Oh, God. Oh, bro, come on.

[laughs]

You gotta let me live.

[laughs]

Oh, shit. [laughs]

The gang- the gangster stays on.

The gangster stays on. But you're right, that, the spiritual gangster-

[laughs]

... has had it, had its, um, had its, uh, smoothie bowl ate by park.

[laughs]

And dairy boy.

Eating your dairy boy nachos. Did you ever... You never were friends with or tangled with a girl that had the, the bows tattooed on the-

Oh, I'm sure I know some

... where the leg meet the ass?

I'm sure I've known some in my life.

Mm-hmm.

Atlanta's a pretty ta- tatted up place-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... in general. S- and, and I-

'Cause where I'm from, every other woman in Orange County had that.

Yeah, that's... Orange County's really tatted up, too.

Very tatted up.

Very tatted up.

I think that's where that tattoo was invented.

I just feel like you don't reali- like, when I was younger, I didn't realize that everybody in Atlanta was tatted up and did cocaine. And then when you leave, people are like, "Oh, Atlanta?"

Mm-hmm.

And there's two things they know about it. You know what I mean?

You were in the eye of the storm-

I was, I was too-

... as a tattooed person-

I was-

... doing cocaine

... exactly. I was too close to it, as they say. And I'm a victim of it as well.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, sometimes you have to come out of your cloud and look around. You ain't the only one, brother. Um, yeah, so you wanna talk about 2016?

Well, I just think-

The psychosis of w- what it w- you know, why that-

Well, my thing is, I, where did it come from? Is it... I mean, obviously it came from the m- the calendar-

It, it's a-

... but I mean-

... it's the 10-year anniversary, but-

It, that's it

... this was the first time in the history... You know, it's not... It, it, I, I guess, you know, it has, like, a bicentennial-

I see

... energy to it.

But is there, is there a, a poster that we can track this to as setting off the trend?

Patient zero?

Yeah, who is patient zero of the 2016 insert? And also, you know-

I have no idea

... 2016, it's not... look, it's not as bad as indie sleaze, but nobody looks great.

Some people did, but most people did not, I would say.

Well, the mistake that a lot of people are making, and they're not thinking this through-

Mm

... is that they've had some adjustments made.

Mm.

And 2016's like-

Yeah, it's a before and after

... t- 2016's like, "Wow, I did not know your nose was that big." You know?

[laughs]

And, and 2026 is like, "You look good." But it's, it's-

Mm

... it's a strange thing to not think that through when you're, when you're-

I think s-

... participating in these trends

... I think those people who don't think things through, ignorance is bliss kinda thing, you know?

Yeah. I, I agree. I don't really, I don't-

They're sleeping better at night. They have a higher sleep score.

It's-

But their life is bad

... as nostalgic as a person as I am, I'm constantly looking backwards, you know? For, for my music, for everything that I like.

Beethoven.

Yeah, definitely.

Victorian era.

Only the classic. I listen to apple c- classical. But the-

Apple seed cast

... but the [laughs] apple seed cast classical. But the, um, I just find it to be such a strange... It just is d- it feels depressing to meI don't know. It just feels, it just-

It's, it's very depressing

... it's depre- It's like-

Because of all the years, you know, like, all right, we're gonna start doing 10 year TBT, throw, like a-

Yeah

... a, a global initiative-

Yeah

... will take place unspokenly in the year 2026, which feels completely arbitrary.

Yes.

But I think the sign is, you know, the w- everyone is so unsure of the world. We, I mean, with the, with our global economic collapse and the tariffs, we can't afford to create and post new images.

Mm. We have to, we have to go back.

So we're going back and mining. This is the equivalent of scraping the resi bowl-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... in the, in the ruar three footer of life.

I mean, I guess, I guess [laughs] I guess in the scheme of social media trends-

We can't afford greens

... this is harmless. You know what I mean? It's, this isn't-

Yeah, yeah

... like, this isn't like actually so over the top stupid, but it feels like it really... I, I feel like I, I looked at my phone and was like, "What's going on?" And the next time I picked my phone up, that's all I saw.

Mm-hmm.

Like, it really swept across all-

But is it, is it better to have the world do one communitive dump of this is what-

Mm

... was going on 10 years ago-

Mm

... versus when the trend first started with Twitter of doing the Throwback Thursday, having that happen every single week-

Great point. I-

... indefinitely?

You're, you're right. I would prefer a globally recognized dump-

Yeah

... to a weekly slow drip.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I, I think you're right. A- and I think this stuff is obviously gonna keep coming and we have no choice. And as far... I, I was confused, but as far as the contents of the content goes-

Oof

... it's pretty good. Like, it's fine.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? It's not like... I just, it's, it's not the, the sort of ice bucket challenge.

Yeah.

You know?

And, and also so much has changed in the last 10 years as, you know, in, in our world of social media and, and the zeitgeist that we speak about. 10 years ago was the last time when you would just post photos of what was going on in your life-

Mm

... versus it being content that you need to think about and curate and create-

Yeah

... for your personal brand because that's all you have left.

I'm, I'm sure someone somewhere was using the word creator in 2016.

Yeah.

But it a- it... Like, my parents didn't know what that was.

It w- yeah. And it wa- it was a fleeting thing where it was like, yeah, we, I, I, I hung out with my friend, and we had dinner, and here's a photo of us posing in front of our guacamole, and we went to a concert, and we went hiking-

Mm

... and we, a- and that was it, versus now where you have to pay m- it, it costs money to cr- you know, to experience experiences that are worthwhile for your grid.

Yeah, totally, especially the grid.

Especially for the grid.

Protect the grid.

So this was like a, a, a different time.

Yeah. I, I just, I guess I, I... It's been a long time since I remember sort of something sweeping that grand.

Mm-hmm.

Because the, the... Also, that stuff usually lasts a lot less time. I feel like the 2016 thing is-

Mm

... still going.

Yeah.

And also what happens when corporations get involved. Every magazine posted their 2016 covers.

Mm-hmm.

You know, you... There's like ways for everybody to participate, so it feels like it's able to have a longer tail.

It really feels like this is the equiv... I mean, I, like I said, the, um, scraping the resin bowl, but it's as if we have the toothpaste tube, and we ran out of toothpaste, and then most people are like, "Oh, let's go buy a new tube of toothpa- toothpaste," and then some people are like, "Let's get the little clothespin and twist it-

Mm

... and squeeze out one last drop."

[coughs]

This is the equivalent of one step further, getting scissors, cutting open the toothpaste tube, l- you know, licking and scraping one last thing-

Hey, man

... because we don't have enough money to buy another tube of Marvis. That's kind of what I'm feeling.

Th- I, I agree with that, and the w- this-

Oh, it's 4/20 right now

... this is gonna-

Happy 4/20

... this is gonna keep going. I mean, this is, it's gonna... I mean, this is gonna keep going. But I, I guess we're on-

We're gonna... In, in 10 years we're gonna be like, "Man, remember when that first resin hit, hit before we were smoking glass?"

Yeah.

[laughs]

Exactly. Exactly.

Before we were smoking, like, animal feces and stuff.

I just, I just don't understa- I, I... Yeah, I guess I just don't... How far does it go? And h- I guess how far is the... Because I think every generation thinks the generation before or their time when they were younger was better and more fun-

Mm-hmm

... and, like, cooler and everything was looser. And it's like 2016 was, like, Donald Trump was president.

Mm-hmm.

It's not that... It's not the... It's, it's not like-

It was not a t- a totally different time.

Yeah, it's not like-

We had Instagram. We had Facebook. We had-

It's not Free Love '60. We're not seeing The Rolling Stones at Altamont. Like, it's like-

[laughs]

It was... You know what I mean? It's just... I, I don't know. It's, like, not that-

It wasn't like Studio 54.

Yeah.

[laughs]

That's what I mean. I mean, 10 years is a long time, but... And, and sure, things have gotten worse, obviously, I guess. But this obsession with, like, escaping the current time 'cause it's so bad just seems like there's gotta be a healthier way to deal with it-

Yeah

... you know, than obsessing over 10 years ago when it wasn't that good.

Well, it's either post photos from 10 years ago that we already have on our phone or throw our phone away. [laughs]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, there's no... You're right. There's no middle ground. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth isNo one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris, and sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them. Because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself, and that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over six million people globally are using it and, you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh, you know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, "Damn, I really am him." You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is betterH-E-L-P.com/howlong.

What is Revolve Man, Jason? It's... Oh, funny you ask.

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Genuinely, yeah. It's one of those things. We're all busy. Let's say we got an important dinner coming up at the end of the week. It's Tuesday. You're working every single day. You don't have time to go shopping and try clothes on and blah, blah, blah, or even just browse. You know, Revolve, it's all there. It's all curated for what you want, and then you click buy, you go to bed. Couple days later, that shows up in packaging that's a little nicer than y- the other places you're buying clothes from, and you've got a nice look for the big night out. And then you're like, "Wait a minute, I don't even have to return this because I enjoy this clothing and I wanna wear it again another time," versus all those dumb other websites. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last-minute that actually works, Revolve Man always has it. Go to revolveman.com/howlong to shop and use code HOWLONG for 15% off your order. Free two-day shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That is revolve.com/howlong and use the promo code HOWLONG to get 15% off your entire order. Offer ends soon. Don't sleep on it. And you don't need clothes, too. You can get just, you know, a cool candle or an incense gift for a baby shower. Whatever it is, revolve.com/howlong.

I like when we take a break. It feels like Joe Budden.

Does Joe Budden take breaks? And we're back.

'Cause they, they do, like, three-hour pods, so they, like, go out and smoke and, like, eat and, like-

[laughs]

Literally, like, they have full-

They go eat?

Yeah, they have, like, they have, like, fucking, "Oh, let me get a plate."

Maybe a seafood, seafood boil?

They got, "Let me get a plate" in the middle of podcasting and then come back. Or maybe they d- Yeah, it's a good-

I would love to come back at, at hour two minute, two hours and 14 minutes, come back on the mic like this. [smacks lips]

[laughs] I need to listen to... I, I'm excited for the flight tomorrow because this, this, uh, Affleck-Damon Rogan-

[laughs]

The clips I've seen, I gotta say, this might be the, the only time Rogan's actually appealed to me. Ben Affleck is... I feel like because of the way he dates and operates publicly-

Mm-hmm

... he gets this sort of, like, I think people think of him a certain way. Everything I've heard him say about, like, the movie business in these clips is the most articulate thing I've heard anyone say about, like, AI and how it's all gonna work.

Mm-hmm.

And I feel like we gotta give Ben Affleck... Like, yeah, sorry he likes to, you know, get divorced. Like, I, you know.

[laughs]

Like, you know, sorry he goes, he likes to drink.

He's got motion at, at the, at the courthouse.

Yeah. But I just, I just just, like... I've seen, like, three or four clips, and both of them, I'm like, man, you guys are, like-

They're articulate

... they're just great celebrities 'cause they've given us a lot. They're real fr- It's just a good story. They're real friends.

Mm-hmm.

They've given us a lot. Like, w- wh-

They're, they're still good-looking.

Yeah.

They're still young enough to, like, be with it and get it, but they've been around so long-

Yeah

... that they have such a beautiful scope of how everything works.

Whether, whether this movie is good or bad, the gift is that they've done all this press together, and they're so good at it.

People s- people say the movie's good enough.

Yeah. I mean, that's... But, like, him talking about Netflix and how they, like, need an explosion in the first five minutes instead of the third act. Like, Netflix just paid you $50 million to do a movie-

Mm

... and you're still gonna go say that? That's when you know you got-

'Cause when you're Ben and, and Damon, you tell Netflix what y- so you don't wanna do the sec-

Yeah, wh-

... the sequel?

Yeah, what, what-

That's what I thought, babe

... how do you wanna do this? How do you wanna do it? But I was j- I really do, I'm gonna listen to that because I don't think I've ever listened to a Joe Rogan podcast by choice.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I've, I've, I've seen clips and I've listened to it in a p- you know, when I'm at-

Not even when Ronda Rousey's on or anything? [laughs]

When I'm in Lanzerhof on day four, I was like, "I have nothing left. I'm gonna have to listen to Rogan." And it's like, and a-

Speaking of scraping the resin

... it's like an, it's the guy from fucking... It, it's the guy from, uh, Friday Night Lights talking about how much he loves the military.

[laughs]

And I was just, I was just like, "I can't do this."

You gotta... That's Jake Tapper I was-

Like, I'm like, "I don't know how much more I can take of this, but I need to be in a t- I can't listen to the voice inside my head anymore."

Are you gonna watch the Matt Damon-Affleck movie?

No.

I feel like Ben Affleck is my new sort of goals in life.

Yeah, he looks great.

He, he's like, he's a dirtbag-

Yeah

... who pulls anyone he wants.

Anyone.

Hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank. Buff. Everyone loves him, respected. Doesn't have to do anything he doesn't wanna do except hang out with, like, his kids.

Yeah, for sure.

Like, that's the only thing in his life that he wants to do.

All he wants to do is smoke Marlboro Lights and hit Duncan.

Yeah.

But unfortunately, he has to have sex with J.Lo.And another bottle service waitress. I think, I think-

It gets worse than having sex with J.Lo.

Totally. But I like, I like that he's just... Imagine that's your dad.

Mm-hmm.

Imagine Ben Affleck is your dad, and you're like 14.

Mm-hmm.

So you, like, hate him, but you know your life is too good.

You hate him, but also you have to be nice to him so you can... he can buy you an electric motorcycle-

[laughs]

... that's $8,000.

Yeah, yeah. All the other kids have them.

So you don't get bullied at Wagon Wheel.

But I... [laughs] I need to... I really, I'm, I'm exci- that's the one I'm looking forward to, my flight tomorrow.

Do you think the stepkids call him Ben?

I bet the stepkids like him more than anybody... I bet h- the, the kids he has with Jennifer Garner, Jennifer Garner just dates, like, rich businessmen now.

Mm-hmm.

So they're probably, "These guys are fucking dorks. My dad's cool as hell."

Somebody was saying, I saw a tweet, I forgot who it was, but it was a good tweet. They, they said, you know, oh, it was about A$AP Rocky, and he said-

Oh, yeah

... they said A$AP Rocky is sort of the J.Lo of, of rap, where, like, he's around, he continue... he's always made music, has had some success and some hits, but, like, it's never really respected. It's, like, never really actually taken seriously, you know? Like-

Yeah

... it's, like, to be somebody like J.Lo, who's, like, A- A- A-list-

Yeah

... celebrity, looks amazing, super successful, but, like, the music and the film career is not really respected whatsoever, you know?

No. I mean, she's... Yeah, she's got hits.

Like the w- uh, uh, similar to, like, Cher. Like, Cher is, is also in that same kinda boat. She's a little more beloved and respected because she has a great personality and she's awesome. But, like, her biggest song being, like, you know, like, Waiting for Tonight by J.Lo.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, when it came out, it was like, oh, this is, like, a joke song. And, like, that's her.

It's an iconic hit.

It's an iconic hit. The same, like, th- uh, Cher, Do You Believe in Life After-

Oh, classic

... you know? Which is a classic, but when it first came out-

Yeah, it was like a j- I see what you mean

... it was just like, "This is... Are you guys being serious?"

Yeah, like, "What's going on?"

This is like-

But they-

The same, same thing with, with, like, Madonna in the, you know, making rave music. At the time, it was not-

'Cause Ray of Light is the now considered-

Mm-hmm

... the all-time.

It's canon.

And at the time it was like, y- this is bad. You deviated from the plan.

Yeah, because before that it was, she had so many amazing-

Yeah, that's true

... you know, '80s and '90s hits.

I think that the, the A$AP Rocky of it all is, uh-

I did watch him on SNL. Holy moly.

I gotta say, I... before we get into it-

So bad

... the hot rollers Mohawk.

[laughs] Yeah, yeah.

Very cool.

That is cool.

Amazing, innovative. That is, whoever did that, shout out to the hair team.

Mm-hmm.

Because that was-

The hair artists

... that was literally the first thing I noticed, was like, that is sick.

Mm-hmm.

That is very, very cool.

Should've been only for one song, not two.

I think it's a lot.

That's just me.

I think it's a lot to redo that.

But yeah, that music, oh my God.

Confounding.

Oh my God.

I don't really know-

And to have, like, to hire the guys do, like, fake moshing.

Yeah.

It was just so... And there's, like, the, the drum kit. They had a, a real drummer from, like-

Yeah

... an '80s har- w- I forgot what band it was.

Oh, was it?

It was like a-

I mean, it looks like it.

It was an old... I forgot what it was. It was, it was like a real, like, classic-

It was the drummer from TSOL. [laughs]

It was something like that, but more like New York hardcore.

Yeah. I mean, that's sick.

But the, the drum kit with, like, the stage design set-up of, like, let's put like a skateboard-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... in front of the kick drum. I mean, it w- it was like a JCPenney photo shoot-

I forget-

... or something

... I forget that, like, to us, this is, like, offensive to our culture. [laughs]

[laughs]

To other people, I, I wonder, I just wonder what the actual perception is from, like, a normal person-

Hmm, hmm

... who has no ties to punk or skateboarding or anything like that, that, that that's... It's probably just that's totally fine. Whether, whether you like the music or not.

You have no idea that this is page one of the book.

Well, it's like when, it's like when Odd Future came out and people were blown away about moshing. I'm like, "Guys, that's not a new concept."

Yeah, but-

They had something to back it up

... but that was real, though.

Totally, that's the difference.

To me, that was real.

Like, no, 100%.

'Cause that was when Tyler was being really racist and sexist and screaming.

That was the most interesting time of that.

And it was real, actual moshing-

Yeah

... and not, like, let's hire, like-

Hot actors

... 17 Juilliard guys-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... to, like, do moshing for the first time-

Yeah

... in their entire lives.

"Oh, where do you dance?" "Oh, I'm New York Ballet. Yeah, I'm in the Company."

[laughs]

I'm in... They said, "Aggressive mosh for this," so.

Like, "We need to get some, like, punk rock clothes, and, like, we have this Dsquared flannel, and we're gonna wrap that around."

We, that's what we really got.

[laughs]

Bro, we got, we gotta talk about, these Heated Rivalry guys, the one D- they put in, the Dsquared did him.

I didn't know that Dsquared was owned by two-

Oh, you didn't know?

... gay toxic-

Legends

... I mean, those people-

Canadian legends

... they got bodies. They, they have the look on their face that they have done something.

Those, those are guys I really wanna hang out with.

Ooh. I mean, I wanna spend time with them as well, but-

I think you gotta pay up. I don't think you get to spend time with them for free.

[laughs]

You know what I'm saying?

I think Heated Rivalry gets to spend time with them for free.

But I just found that to be-

Those pit sniffers

... I just, I found that to be so-

They feel like the, the final boss of evil gays.

Definitely. I'm just worried, I'm worried about the Heated Rivalry guys. I'm, I'm honestly worried about them.

Is it gonna burn too hot?

It's just, this is not, people are not meant... It's not meant to happen like this. Like, it's not meant to go from zero to 1,000 in a, in a one-week period.

I know.

Like, it's really b- like, I really, honestly-

Like, they're gonna be writing dissertations about this month-

Yeah

... in their lives

... all joking aside, I hope they are, like, good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

'Cause it's like, it's, this is, like, the dangers of fame personified.

Yo, listeners, check on your, check on your hockey players.

Check on your hockey player. The straight one is the one who wrote, walks in the Dean, the, the Dean DeLuca Show. The Dsquared Show. One of them's named Dean.

But, but people who will go unnamed in the industry say that the, the real tea is that they're actually both straight, and they're trying to milk the gayness as long as they can before.

I, I would... Yeah. I mean, why not?

I know.

I think they're-

But that, but to me, that's-

They're pictures of that-

That's gonna be w- a big reason why when they crumble, it's gonna be a big crumble

... I think the other guy is too hot to be straightHonestly

Okay

Like the hair is too... It's like he's too hot to be straight. The other one that looks a little-

You know that the, that's just the way bodies come out, you know what I mean?

Yeah, but-

Just genetically

... let's look at the bo- Let's, we, we... You wanna look at the bodies?

[laughs]

You wanna go outside right now and look at some bodies and look at gay guys? 'Cause they don't look like this.

[laughs]

They don't look like... I'm just telling you.

Okay. [laughs]

Gay guys prioritize their looks, and they are touched by God in the, um, oblique area as well.

If they are both straight, how long until... How long are they gonna be able to walk the tightrope until it comes out?

Well, the one guy, the, the guy that walked in the D Squared Show has, like, a girlfriend that-

Yeah, yeah

... you can, like, he, like, takes to parties.

Mm-hmm.

And she's hot in a way that does feel a little... It could be beard.

Is she cool with supermodels r- uh, trying to take his shirt off and rubbing his body?

I think she's probably... Yes.

Okay.

I think it's probably a net positive for the family-

Mm-hmm

... because it was-

Good for the goose, good for the gander

... 'cause it might've been, like, cereal for dinner three nights a week and-

Good for the Canada goose.

Yeah, good for the-

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

But I just, I-

So how long until he leaves his chick?

Well, it depends on what happens with his career.

Two Twos, how long till he leaves her, Cody?

If he, if he, [laughs] if he gets another role, immediately.

Wouldn't it be so cool if neither of them booked a sing- Like, this, this-

Well, that's-

Nothing

... that's the thing. I think it's like-

And he's doing, like, Pauly D DJ sets at, at the Abbey and shit.

I feel like, thank God Ryan Murphy makes so many shows, 'cause I just don't know what... I don't know if... I also, I haven't, again, I haven't seen-

Murphy will just sponsor their life

... I haven't seen this yet. I don't know what they're capable of, but I'm imagining that they aren't sort of crème de la crème of the acting community. I don't think these guys studied theater at Carnegie Mellon and now they're-

They're not giving Daniel Day?

Yeah, they're not, they're not giving Jacob Elordi character journal.

Mm-hmm.

They're, they're giving a little bit like, "Oh."

They're charismatic stars.

Yeah.

But-

But here's the thing about now. Here's the thing about our-

But give them... You know, 'cause... Sorry for interrupting, but ni- wh- when Kany- uh, when Keanu was first-

Yeah

... you know, hit the scene, same kind of vibe, and then he was so lovable and-

Yeah

... everyone wanted to fuck him so much that he just learned to be a great actor over time.

He gave, they gave him enough chances for him to get really good.

Yeah, yeah. Like, where'd you learn how to do this in this, bro?

Yeah.

I'm, I am this.

I think there's the, th- there's a new thing now, though, that happens, where if you get to this level, even if the acting doesn't take off, the influencing career-

Yeah

... will be extr- multimillions per year for at least a couple years minimum.

More than the Crave residuals checks.

Yeah. So, like-

For sure

... in that c- it buys you some time to sort of stay relevant-

Mm-hmm

... and make money, but you don't have to actually do anything good. But people are going to be... It's going to be all li- They better, it, they better be doing something tonight.

Mm.

Like, it better be... 'Cause you, you can't have a six-month lag-

Mm-hmm

... where you're just posting, like, Dolce & Gabbana sponcon.

[laughs]

That's not... Like, you gotta keep it blue chip if you can.

Yeah, because otherwise they're gonna become the next, like, they're gonna be the first big gay streamer because-

Yeah

... that's gonna be the only real revenue stream, pardon the pun, that they might have.

Yeah.

'Cause there aren't really any big gay streamers except all of them, but you know, like, openly-

No, I don't think so

... gay streamers.

Which is interesting. I think the problem is it would turn immediately into an orgy, so it doesn't really work. You know, you can't just have-

So you need to get a gay guy who's about his bread-

Yeah

... and who knows not to cross the line.

Well, you, 'cause-

Because we don't wanna be perma-ban-

Well-

... perma-banned

... well, the, the door is open. Kai Cenat, Cenat has retired from streaming. He's now a f- a fashion designer.

[laughs] Oh, yeah. I saw one of his looks. [laughs]

It is, it is so bad.

Of course.

But, like-

Of course. It doesn't matter.

But it, but yeah, but it's like, bro, Justin Bieber can do Skylark, and it's fine. It's, like, hoodies, sli- it, like, makes sense. It's, like, well-made.

I'm not mad at a sky piece.

Good, good colors. It's all good. He's making exactly what he should make for his audience. He likes it. That's cool. The stuff c- the stuff I've seen from Kai is like, bro, it's-

Is, is Adrian Brody art? Is ASAP Ferg art?

You l- you learned what Rick Owens was six months ago. You can't try to copy that.

Mm-hmm.

I don't care who you pay. It ain't gonna be good.

Yeah.

It's crazy. But I think there must... There's something go- something s- is weird. So, I feel like there's something going on with that whole thing because I don't know why you would go out on top at 25 years old when you're making millions of dollars from turning on a camera and having Drewski and Kevin Hart come over and make fun of you.

I think, I mean, hopefully he had, like, somebody sensible in his corner who was like, "You are making so much money. You're so big. You're so powerful. You're so famous. If you don't do something drastic, you're gonna be dead in 18 months."

I, I, I, but I don't know. I think there's something more nefarious going on. I th-

Like in the, like, uh, like MrBeasty?

Yeah, I think, like, you gotta stop doing this or something's gonna catch up, and you're gonna need to... It's, like-

So something more nefarious than you're gonna be dead in 18 months?

I, I don't think he's... I don't think that's his vibe.

I've been saying nefarious too much lately.

I, I think he's just, like... I think there's more to th- his mental health break combined with, like-

Mm

... all of a sudden he pivoted to being, like, Mr. Honest About Health and a fashion designer. It just, something about that-

Mm

... at the same time feels a little too calculated for me.

Do you think, uh, uh, uh, uh, the, the, the hand, the claw of power came down and said, "You gotta make some changes or else," kinda thing?

I, I, I think it's gonna be revealed.

Okay. It's a dark world out there, the streaming world, isn't it?

I don't follow it closely for that exact reason.

I don't follow it closely, but it, it just appears in my... I mean, it's, it's big now.

It really does appear.

Like, SNL did a skit about it, about the clav- clavicular guy.

Yeah. Well, that was too funny. Well, there's that crazy video of all those guys in Vegas, and they were r-

They're in Miami

... Miami, and they requested the Hitler-

Handed, yeah, the Hail, the Heil Hitler Kanye song.

Somebody tweeted, like, "Hitler would hate you losers." [laughs]

I just wanna know how-

Dude

... a bunch of white people-

Dude

... constantly say the N-word and Heil Hitler in public, and nobody is checking them.

It's like what we talked about earlier.

[laughs]

Nobody want, it's-

Yeah, yeah, yeah

... it literally is the same approach. It's like, "I don't want a, I don't want an altercation." It's like, yeah, that's different than a guy fucking playing Candy Crush with the sound on.

[laughs]

But it, it is cr- it's crazy that these guys... It's like him and Nick Fuentes at the club.

Mm-hmm.

I'm- this is the biggest loser shit. That we're in the big- that, that whole thing is the biggest loser shit I've ever seen maybe.

Yeah.

It's, it's so d- Like Andrew Tate, Nick Fuentes, and, and, uh, Klavan [laughs] at a club in Miami, and they request that song, and there's, and they play it?

Mm-hmm.

The DJ has to play it 'cause they're spending-

Mm-hmm

... so much money. We gotta reevaluate our priorities.

Yeah.

Some things we don't, some things you, we don't need to do.

Well, I think, I mean, uh, it's unfortunate that Miami is sort of the only pla- it's like the Wild West of America-

That's where they live

... now, and that's the only place where that kinda stuff can really go down because you can't... That, that wouldn't happen in Atlanta. That wouldn't happen-

No

... in LA. It would happen in s- I mean, like, there's like Young Republican, like MAGA-

Yeah

... like-

But it's not gonna happen-

... quiet Nazi stuff going on in New York

... at a, at a strip club where you're buying Grey Goose.

Yeah, I mean, like, you're, y- you're not gonna be clavicular and walk into Magic City with a hat that says the N-word on it-

No

... and have a-

They will drag your ass out

... have a guy that's the size of a linebacker be like, "Oh my God, let me take a picture-

That's true

... of your hat. That's crazy. I gotta send it to my friend."

Yeah.

"He's gonna get a chuckle out of it." Even five years ago, that's a instant red button.

No.

You have to beat this guy until he's in a coma.

That's the other thing. It should be... It's not like a, "Sir, we're gonna have to ask you to leave." It's just straight up like, "I'm gonna beat your ass." That's what it should be. [laughs]

On sight, we were like-

No conversation

... no conversation.

Just beat, just ass beat.

That's it.

But I think these, I think these guys also now, they make so much money. They got full security.

Mm-hmm.

They got drivers. Everybody's got a gun.

Mm-hmm.

It's just, it's all just like, it's so... Nothing bothers me more actually than when I see that stuff where I'm like, "This is so dumb."

Well, I think maybe that is the problem. When we used to, you know, to borrow the phrase from, from the film Friday, "You would, you would use your fist. You live to fight another day. You learn, you live," blah, blah, blah. In a world where everyone has these security guards and security details, and they're so protected, where you can't just go up and punch a Nazi for being a Nazi, or you can't just go punch a, a guy for screaming the N-word, the only option is to Charlie Kirk somebody.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The only way you can get touched is with a-

Like a, from-

... with a .50 cal

... from, yeah, from 40 miles away through a scope.

'Cause before you would, you know, see a Nazi, punch a Nazi. You see a guy screaming "Heil Hitler" on the street, it's open season for-

Yeah

... any... Like, you could go punch him in front of a cop, and the cop will say like, "Yeah," you know-

Yeah, yeah

... "Go have a good night," right?

Street justice.

Yeah, it's street justice. That, that is what it is. And now there i- this, it's the destruction of the middle class of physical violence.

It's true.

So now all we can do is take a video and post it on Instagram and be like, "Look at this crazy racist guy. He's so funny."

But-

Or climb on top of a building, put him in a red dot, and murder him

... but the thing i- the thing is-

That's all you can do

... that, that, like, the posting fuels the fire is the unfortunate part because the whole game is attention-

Mm-hmm

... and n- and, like, streams. So if, like even if you're posting or t- or even what we're d- like, talking about negatively-

Mm-hmm

... this was what they want. This fuels the f- this fuels the whole thing. Like, if they're not reviled, they don't make any money.

Mm-hmm.

So it ha- and I think that's-

Yeah

... the thing. It keeps getting... You keep pushing it and pushing and pushing it. Like, where do you go from here, bro? What are you gonna say now?

I-

Like, I hate my mother?

That's-

Like, I, I don't know

... that's why the only option is just death.

Yeah.

Like, there is no like, "Well, that was a little crazy. I flew too close to the sun. I'm gonna, I'm gonna decide to cash out, start a fashion line."

Also, they, also these guys don't have... It's not like a Kanye situation where people will forgive him because he's given us amazing art.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

These guys have given us literally less than nothing.

Yeah, but the lo- the bar for art is so low now to where, like, "Hey, man."

Nick Fuentes saying he's a virgin is art in some ways.

But, like, there are people out there who choose to watch Nick Fuentes stream instead of go out on a Friday night and hang out with their friends.

Yeah, that's true.

These are people who live in New York City, who have, who are gainfully employed-

No, you're right

... attractive, interesting people who are like, "You know what? That's just what I'm gonna do now."

I just can't.

So the bars of, for entertainment is there.

I can't get over it. I like c- I don't... I try not to think about it because it's so... Also, it's ugly. Like, it's ug-

Yeah

... it's visually unappealing. It's, like, all ugly. Everything about it is ugly.

Yeah.

The, the views are obviously ugly, but every- they're ugly.

Mm-hmm.

The whole thing is just gross.

Yeah.

Like, I don't like to look at it or think about it. And usually somebody that-

It reminds me of, like, the worst kid in middle school.

Yeah, t- that's what they act like. That's, no, that's the whole-

And that's the target audience.

I just also don't get the s- I don't know, man. People really try to, like, explore it and like, "I'm gonna talk to this guy and see what it's all about."

Mm-hmm.

And it's like, dude, I know what it... I can see what it's all about because these guys, they're not smart enough.

Yeah, yeah.

It's not like it's some nuanced thing. It's like they wanna make money, and this is how they do it.

It's like I'm gonna sit down and really get to the bottom of Machine Gun Kelly. Like-

Yeah, it's like, bro-

The bottom ain't there.

Yeah, there's... [laughs]

This is just-

That ditch is, that's a shallow grave over there

... this is a hot air balloon. There's a hole in the bottom. When we run out of gas, it's gonna fall-

That's it

... and that's it.

But I wonder, I wonder what, I, I wonder what the... 'Cause the world is gonna turn back. Like, that's gonna b- the way that things move and flow, like I know it's awful r- right now and blah, blah, blah, it'll go, everything will, it'll, it'll ebb and flow.

Oh, shit.

Like, I don't think that kind of thing-

We're on the positivity train. Let's go

... I just don't think that thing is gonna be accepted even by-

It's always darkest before dawn

... the fringes. Exactly. That's what I was gonna say.

It's Jake.

But I didn't wanna be s- I didn't wanna be super dramatic.

[laughs]

I didn't wanna be super dramatic.

No, I mean, hopefully, I'm, I'm, I like that, uh, you know, as pessimistic as you are-

It's gotta be

... you are dropping a little positivity bomb in the 11th hour, in the 9th inning of this.

I just, it's gotta, something's gotta, 'cause I'm just like, I, I, I can't.

I mean, I don't know what to do, bro. Luckily, we still have our podcasting, and the world of content creation is the only job that exists currently and as long asYou know, there are people who are good at talking about people who do other stuff.

[laughs]

We will have a job.

We will prevail. No, that's, that's true. I, I just really, when I saw that today I was like, uh, this is the last thing I wanna talk about, but I gotta talk about this. That video is crazy.

Mm-hmm.

It's crazy. Yeah, look, I've, I've said this before-

What's wrong?

... on this podcast about obviously much less serious subjects, but normalize getting duffed.

Yeah.

Normalize getting duffed.

It would save everything.

Honestly, if people just got-

Let some air out of the balloon before it pops

... I'd definitely get punched in the face.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like-

You would, you would be, you would die a corrected person if you got hit every four years-

Yeah

... for saying some shit.

Yeah.

Just like all of us.

All of us. Everybody could, uh, men o- only of course.

'Cause that's, I mean, that, that is the problem.

There's a problem.

It's just like everyone is the, the, the only thing to do is nothing or bullet.

Yeah. I'm gonna po- well, nothing, post about it, or bullet.

[laughs]

Those are the three options that you have.

Hmm.

Choose your, choose your firewater.

It's bullet or post screenshots in r/snark-

Yeah, yeah

... whatever it is.

Yeah. It's like that's not really, nothing's moving the needle. But d- look, Jason, we're in paradise. I'm ready to go get a quesadilla-

Ooh

... by the, by the beach.

We're gonna go get a quesadilla de playa.

We, we did our thing here in Mexico. Thank you to Josh. Thank you to Bowery Presents. Thank you to Cloud9, uh-

Thank you to Ian. Thank you to Talk House

... Talk House. Yeah, thank you to Katie, and Jake, and Eric.

Thank you to Sam.

Thank you to-

High Road family

... thank you to Jeff Tweedy. I know you don't know who we are, but we appreciate you and all the work you've given us over the years.

Thank you to CAA for rocking with us-

[laughs]

... so hard every single day.

Susanna and Max, you guys really put money in our pockets.

I don't know. Why are we being so sentimental? Is it because we both have, like, an airborne illness that's controlling our body now?

I-

We're talking as if this is the last episode of How Long Gone we've ever done.

I know. No, I just think that, I think that this festival, and I said this on stage earlier-

Gonna cry?

... I really mean it. No, it's just it, you do forget, I think when you live in New York or LA and you're wrapped up in all the absolute dumb shit that we think about all day.

Mm.

When I looked over yesterday and saw people my parents' age-

Mm-hmm

... just sorta happy as hell-

California [sings]

[laughs] Having, having a fucking margarita, knowing every word to their favorite band.

Mm-hmm.

Happy as hell, not worrying about all the dumb shit that I worry about.

Mm-hmm.

I was like, "You know what? That's what it's all about."

Hey, hey, honey, this carne asada torta, it's a steak sandwich-

Literally

... but down here.

Literally. That's literally, and I'm like, "You know what, man? I need to expose myself to this more."

Well, we're, we, what we're doing, we're, we're grinding it down to the bare surface.

That's right.

And we're remembering that music is life.

Music is life.

The healing powers of rock and roll to white Caucasian ears.

Oh, there's nothing that'll heal you more. You, you talking-

You wanna untangle a twisted wire?

You're saying I'm supposed to not cry when J Mascis comes out and plays guitar with MJ Lenderman?

Mm-hmm.

That's, that's, that is, that's white tears.

You are so moved that you are willing to overlook the Mishka-

[laughs]

... eyeball hoodie that he will indefinitely be wearing.

Seeing, seeing J around in a beach setting.

Yeah. We were on stage earlier, and we, we performed in the middle of sort of the mall, like, shopping area-

Yeah

... courtyard of the hotel. It was still very big, you know. Hundreds of people in attendance. It was amazing. But at, right at the end I saw J Mascis walking around alone, like, hands behind his back like, you know, dad walking around the park, just observing, you know, the, the hotel jewelry store.

Yeah, just checking out the wares.

Oh, there's a nice beach ball right here. What's this go for?

Yeah.

19? 18?

His, also, J's wife, very swaggy. Like, I, I clocked her immediately. I was like, "This woman looks cool as hell."

Mm-hmm.

And then I realized it was J's wife, and she's really getting her, her fits off.

And when you said the age gap was appropriate, I was, I wasn't shocked, but I would have bet money that it'd be a age gap.

No, very ap- it's like Malkmus.

I think-

Very age-ap- appropriate

... he's, I mean, I want Mascis to be with a psycho 27-year-old [beep].

It could happen.

I mean, I'm sure it has happened.

[laughs]

You know, but [laughs] but I just want somebody, you know, just, just half his age-

I do too. I do too

... but, like, ride or die chick.

I do too.

You know what I mean?

Like r- real, yeah. I-

Piss and Vin.

I do too. Um, all right. How Long Gone, thank you for listening. Thank you again for having us, uh, here at the Sky Blue Sky Festival. Um, I'm heading back to New York. Jason's heading back to LA. We're regular scheduled program next week.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, we'll see you soon.

How Long Gone.

[rock music] If I could find the time to right my mind the way I want it to read. If I could find the time to right my mind the way I want it to read. [rock music] [cheers]

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