875. - Hailey Benton Gates

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian, and they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world, and they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. [upbeat music] How Long Gone, Super Tuesday here in New York City. Them jeans was Gucci.

Uh, Super Tuesday, yeah, I'm just over here. Winter, winter is kind of here. Thanksgiving is, is in the air. I put up my Christmas lights yesterday. I was up on the big ladder. 16-footer.

Oh, shit. [laughs] I mean, for you, that's a regular size ladder. I, I feel like-

[laughs]

[laughs] The fact that you decorate for Christmas is one of the most fascinating things about you. I, I'm just... I, I just don't understand it on principle, but-

You're not a festive MF like I am.

No, it's not even about that. It's... It obviously feels nice to, like, drive down a street full of houses decorated beautifully. It just seems like a lot of work just to take it down. That, that's all.

It's, it's obvious to most people. For you, it's not that obvious too, but I understand the... I don't know. It'd be... I think it's more so, like, it would be s- more sad and upsetting if it wasn't decorated versus I have to take all of this shit down-

[laughs]

... in one-

Really?

And then, well, you know, in a month and a half.

I see. I see.

I don't know.

I mean, I, I just, I find it-

Or maybe just, like, my brain is just like, that's just not even a possibility.

Yeah, there's no option. There's no option. I mean-

It's just what must be done.

I... That's how I feel about Rush Hour 4. So I'm glad the powers that be are kind of making that happen. [laughs]

Are you talking about the film Rush Hour 4 that, that Trump said we need to-

Trump executive producing with, with, uh, canceled Brett Ratner back in the saddle directing. It's like, yo, you always talk about Hollywood, what can we do? Here's what we can fucking do. Let's get, let's get Chris, Chris Tucker, Jackie Chan, let's get them back together. Let's get Trump behind the, the camera. You know, Trump's got the headphones on in video village. Not, he's not giving notes, but he's, he's watching.

He has, he has thoughts. He's getting dailies, but he's not in video village.

He has, he has thoughts. Thank God he has thoughts.

Okay, so, so you're saying... You know, I do, I do talk about that a lot. I love the statistics of Hollywood and what's that box office, what's the, uh, P&L? And you're saying Trump, he just gets things done. W- Look, does he get them done well? Does he get them done legally? No.

Well, let's not-

But he's a doer. He's a, he-

Yeah, let's-

I mean, I'm not joking. He literally is a doer. Like, everyone is sitting around, you know, like, "We should totally do that. We should plan it." And Trump's like, "Let's build it now."

Yeah, just-

"Do you do it illegally?"

Do you know how many times I've wanted to add a wing onto my house, and I haven't done it? I've just beat around the bush and, you know-

Mm-hmm

... kicked the ti- Worried about how... He just built one, bro. He added one to the White House. That, that's-

Fellas, is it gay to pull a permit, perhaps?

It, it... [laughs] Oh, very, very, very, very. If you pull a permit, you're bitch-made. Everybody knows that.

[laughs]

Everybody knows that.

Deal with the consequences like a man. Come on.

I'm happy Rush Hour 4 is, is coming out. I won't, I won't see it, but I'm, I'm glad that people are... So two things today that I've seen that people are upset about.

Mm-hmm.

One is Rush Hour 4, which is obviously a harmless and funny, stupid thing that the pre-

Wait, why are... Wait, I didn't know people were upset about that.

Well, the, I think it... Maybe upset's the wrong word. Maybe they're flabbergasted-

Okay

... by the fa- by the fact that the president has intervened [laughs] to make a movie. Don't-

Like, we're, the, the government's on the verge of shutdown, jobs are in the tank, the c- the price of turkeys are up 24%. You know, I could go on and on, and he's saying, like, "You know what? A fourth Rush Hour is a..." Maybe that's an idea. A, a film that hasn't been out... When, when was Rush Hour 3? Whatever, 15 years ago?

I've never seen any Rush Hours, so I'm happy that-

I also have famously never seen any Rush Hours.

Wow, look at us.

Part of me knew that it wasn't cool even back then.

Uh, yeah. [laughs] Cool is not the word I would use. But then, then, um, comedian, I know your favorite comedian, Louis CK, uh, famously canceled for jerking off behind a plant, um-

[laughs]

... is, is... He was seen on the streets of New York City making out with a, a woman, age-appropriate woman.

Mm-hmm.

And pe- she is the, the, uh, widow of beloved actor Philip Seymour Hoffman.

Mm-hmm.

So, so people are mad that he's happy, basically.

[laughs]

And that, I guess, I guess... And this is what I was saying in the group chat. It's like, two fucking 55-year-old adults doing what they want really isn't news to me.

Mm-hmm.

But I guess that we, we can't see Louis happy even though he's rich.

Yeah, and then I guess the problem with Louis is that as a, as a rich, middle-aged, white man, he's been doing whatever he wants, whether that's right or wrong, so that's why people are like... I, I think it's mainly because Philip Seymour Hoffman is such a beloved actor taken away too early, and I mean, and his, his stock has only r- You know, it's just kind of like the way, like, Court and, Kurt and Courtney, you know what I mean? Like, any, and whoever Courtney Love is going to date after Kurt Cobain-It doesn't matter if it's Gandhi or-

Yeah, he's... Yeah, it's tough

... you know, it's just like, how dare you?

No offense to Philip Seymour Hoffman, but I, I mean-

[laughs]

I don't really even care about Nirvana, but I think they gave us a little more than he did. But legendary actor, beloved, and also-

Debatable

... one of those, one of those guys who now everybody is like, "He's a style icon," you know? Like, after the fact. And, like, I think he was just wearing a flannel shirt and jeans, and he was fat. But, like, by all means, I mean, let's celebrate the guy. He was very talented.

Look, at the time, at the time, it seem- it seemed pretty normal. But in retrospect, compared to the way people dress currently-

[laughs] Yeah, yeah

... Philip Seymour Hoffman did in fact have that shit on, the same way we looked at Robin Williams and Phil Hartman-

Well, Robin Williams, Robin Williams-

... and all these other people and everyone, or even fucking George Costanza, you look back and you're like, "Damn."

No. All right, Ronnie Cox.

Compared to-

Stop. All right, Kith.

[laughs]

You gotta, you gotta slow down. Jason's casting Kith right now on the mic. You gotta chill.

Bro, I don't even know what... Where, what does he have to do with Kith?

Kith has famously photographed George Costanza in Kith, as well as Jerry Seinfeld and other-

I'm sorry, I don't, I don't really look at Kith ads, but I believe you.

I b- I... Your algorithm is so fucked up that I, I s- I believe that you somehow miss those and see the shit. The other thing that we were talking-

I just, I don't follow Kith, but I know that you work in, like, fashion, so you kind of have to do that stuff.

I don't follow... I wanna be very clear, I don't follow Kith.

[laughs]

Kith follows me. Kith finds me.

Hey. [laughs]

Whether you want it or not-

Come to Kith

... K- Kith will find you. If you, if you live in New York City and you're over the age of 35 and you've bought jeans before-

[laughs]

... Kith will find your ass.

Not, not, o- ironically, not unlike the Grim Reaper.

It's, it is-

He will, he will find your ass.

It is the Grim Reaper. The other thing that we've been talking about this morning is, um, The Cut posted a, a first-person essay from a, I guess, actor. I gue- I g- content creator. A young, a young woman.

Actually, I don't know if it was first-person. I think somebody wrote the story, but based heavily on this other person's life. Just, just to be-

Oh, okay. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay

... you know.

I... But it's ba- it's basically like, "I can't watch Rachel Sennot's I Love LA because I'm unsuccessful and they are."

[laughs]

Is kind of what I... So that to me is literally like, I, if I play guitar, then I can't listen to The Beatles because they're so much better?

[laughs]

Like, where does this end, you know what I mean? Like, like, think about this. Like, I can't... I play basketball with my buddies three times a week. I can't watch the NBA 'cause they're just so much better than me.

Yeah.

Like, how did we get here?

I think, I think the, the, the thing is it's an age thing, and, and I think the story mentions it a little bit when you're like, "All right."

Yeah, for sure.

"This person has found success at the age of 23. I'm the age of 20. I have three more years to make it, and if I don't, I'm a failure." And then you wake up and you're 27, and the 23-year-olds are still taking your job, and then it, it begins to weigh on you. But I th- I think what this person is doing is... I mean, obviously, you know, it re- it reads like a LiveJournal diary and not something that should be published in a, in a nationwide media outlet like The Cut.

Maybe, maybe you're not aware of what The Cut publishes-

[laughs]

... but this is right, this is right on par.

Maybe I'm, I'm giving The Cut too much, I'm giving The Cut too much credit. I don't know.

No, no.

I don't read The Cut, so I don't know.

Not even credit. It's just like, we're talking about it, everybody's... It works.

Yeah, okay. Fair, fair, fair.

Like, this is, this is smart.

It is juicy.

Yeah, it's smart.

But I mean, it, it's, um, it's, it's just, I guess it's just kind of rage bait or just, like, easy to make fun of. But people in that position, y- you know, y- y- you can never say, like, "Hey, the reason why you're not famous is because you're not attractive enough or talented enough, um, or cool enough." And whatever that combination of those three things are that famous people who find success have, whatever it is. You know, Philip Seymour Hoffman, his, his talent outweighed his looks obviously, and he was just that good. She maybe is just not that good. And nowadays, inst- you know, it's very easy to blame other people and other things. And there was another story about, like, a, a thing that was going viral about a woman complaining that she's, like, an amazing singer and she-

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

... didn't have enough money-

Yeah, yeah [laughs]

... to get studio time with the pros, and that's the only reason why.

Oh, wow.

And everyone was, like, dunking on her.

[laughs]

Like, "Bro, look at s- Soulja Boy made-"

They said Steve Lacy-

"... his first song on a fucking phone."

[laughs]

"Steve Lacy made it in GarageBand on a fucking iPad."

I mean, fuck, fuck that, bro. Our favorite bands made it on a fucking four-track Tascam. Let's, let's... We can take it all the way back.

Period. Period. But, um, you know, I, I, I think that it might be, like... So if this person is like, "Okay, I'm watching everyone else lap me in Hollywood. I'm never gonna get the big call-up. I'm never gonna be the star that I've been dreaming about. I'm not gonna be a failure. So it's, like, a little bit of plan B. Pull the emergency chute. I'm gonna write this essay, get some sympathy points. Maybe some podcasts on Dear Media will have me on to tell my story. Maybe a young filmmaker will feel bad for me and cast me in a little indie short." Whatever. You know, just like a Hail Mary-

I wish it was that calculated. I wish it was that calculated.

[laughs]

I think it's, I think it's strictly pathetic. Like, I don't think it, I don't think this-

Oh, it's definitely pathetique.

But I'm saying if this person was, if this person was thinking it through that hard, they would be successful, [laughs] because that's what it takes-

Mm. Okay

... is some, some sort of planning and thought. But I just don't, I-

There's a compliment for me in there somewhere, Chris. I like that

... I, I just don't understand this line of thinking. Like, the, the whole point is that there are some people that are better than you, and you should look at them and be inspired or driven to be better, not discour- Like, I'm 43 years old and I'm a fucking loser who hasn't done anything. I, I hope that at 50 I'll have done something that I'm proud of.

[laughs]

You know? I don't understand. Like, I just, I think we've... The age thing is so crazy, but I feel like as you get older, you learn that that's not really how it is. Like, the, of course, we see the people that are 27 and successful, but there's a lot of people who are rich and successful that it took 20 years.

Mm.

That's not, you know, it's, it's not really... It, it's not realistic for, I would say, 99.9% of, of society.

Yeah. Yeah, and I think people... You know, when you wanna be whatever it is from childhood and you have your, your vision of what that is and where it starts and what it looks like, and it doesn't, you know, the, the, the plan doesn't line up with the timeline, your, your brain starts scrambling. I don't know. I mean, I, I feel a little bad for her because-She's sort of, it, I'm assuming the rest of the world is laughing at her, right?

Mm, I think you're either laughing at her or you feel the same way but you don't wanna admit it. I think those are the two 'cause you realize that it's, like, unbelievable, like, crybaby behavior.

[laughs]

But I just don't, it's- it's not, it's just, I don't know, man. Some people are good, some people aren't. Some things happen, some things don't. You kinda just gotta let go and let God i- is- is my advice for any 27-year-old aspiring Rachel Sennot.

Um, I do agree. [laughs] I do agree. Yeah, and there's so many other, just stick with it. Y- you know, whatever you're good at, whatever your dream id- ideal scenario to pair with your soul and your life, m- and maybe it hasn't been created yet. When I was born, podcasts didn't exist, and now-

That's why I can't listen to Rogan, you know? He's just too good. It's discouraging.

Mm-hmm.

I can't, I mean, yeah.

Yeah, when you were born-

I, it's, it's-

... the Office wasn't even an idea-

Gosh

... in Ricky Gervais' mind, and now look at you.

And now look at me. All right, we have a guest today. Um, friend of the show Hayley Benton Gates is a, uh, writer, director, actress. She has a new movie called Atropia, uh, that stars Alia Shawkat and Callum Turner. Um, she just did a Miu Miu thing. She's everywhere. She was, she's a fam- she's a Vice alumni.

Mm-hmm.

One of my favorite type of people to have on How Long Gone.

Mm-hmm.

Um, let's see if Shane took her in the helicopter to Atlantic City. You know, how-

[laughs]

... how, how in the inner circle was she is a great question. She also has a, um, just a great head of hair, which I wanted to point out.

Oh.

Up top.

Okay.

Just a nice, nice head of hair, which is, you know, obviously something I take notice of.

Yeah, and, uh, I, I got to, I, I knew who she was for a long time from watching her show on Vice back then. She was kind of a, she was a Tony Bourdain addressing.

[laughs]

You know, she'd go to these crazy far-flung loca- g- visit the Congo and Afghanistan and see how, uh, see how they got that shit on over there. And we got to hang out a bunch at Charlie and George's wedding actually, so happy to have her on. She's cool. Let's give her a jingle. [jingle plays]

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world, and I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions, but how often? 'Cause we do this podcast three times a week, and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do?

Three times a week, and I- I- I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe gonna be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they wanna say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at, at, uh, Stateside.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's three times a week, and- and who couldn't use more news? You know, especially, especially when it's, when it's not, you know, from here, let's say.

[laughs]

Give, give it a, give it a listen. Give it a listen. Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb. I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, "You're fine," you know, "Drink more water."

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly, as if-

That's about it

... as if I could drink more water, Doctor. I, I don't get data. I don't get a game plan. I just get a pat on the ass and get out there and, and make it better. But SuperPower's doing something different. SuperPower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab if you're a little freak. It's a simple blood draw, one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Uh, their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, and even environmental toxins. Ooh, ooh.

[laughs]

So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simple optimizing for your gym game, let's go. SuperPower is more comprehensive and advanced system out there.

Make this year the year we all stop guessing about our health with SuperPower. For a limited time, How Long Gone listeners get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Head over to superpower.com and use the code HOWLONG for $20 off your membership. That is code HOWLONG, and after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about SuperPower. Do us a favor if you could and tell them How Long Gone sent you, and that'll just support us. Thanks.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're, we're deep into May, which is, uh, Mental Health Awareness Month, and this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris, and sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to just be in the same room with them because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself, and that's the most, that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp. Choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over six million people globally are using it, and you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh. You know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself, maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, "Damn, I really am him." You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is betterH-E-L-P.com/howlong. [jingle plays]

I have to say, though, you're wearing a, you're wearing a, what looks to be a, a shirt with your n- initials embroidered on it, which I, I like that. And, uh, you came camera ready even though it's not, that's not what we do here.

I like to look good always.

Wow. [laughs]

[laughs]

Must be nice. Must be nice.

Even when you're podcasting.

I've actually never done a podcast, so.

I don't believe that.

Are you serious?

I've never done a podcast.

This is number one?

You didn't do Rogan? I swear, I swear you did Rogan.

Oh my God, I would be so great on Rogan.

You, [laughs] you would-

Why do you think that?

[laughs]

[laughs] You have a lot of archery experience?

[laughs]

You know what those guys have in common that I wonder if you're interested in is they, they really love boxing and MMA. All of the sort of bro, quote unquote, podcasts love boxing and MMA to the point where I feel-

It's fucking awesome, that's why

... I f- [laughs] I feel isolated from them. I feel separated from them because I don't love, um, the art of two men beating each other up shirtless.

Yeah. That's not really my vibe.

I didn't think-

[laughs]

I didn't think so, but-

[laughs]

... I, I've been surprised, yeah.

[laughs]

Yeah, we're here to talk more so about Callum Turner and things like that, you know?

Callum Turner.

But then the fact that you have him in a movie is, uh, just a coincidence. We would've been discussing him-

Him [laughs] anyway

... and his body otherwise, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[laughs]

By, by the way, who makes-

Where are you guys? Oh, sorry.

Oh, I'm, I'm in my house. He's in his house. I'm in LA, he's in New York.

Nice.

Where are you? You look like you're in some sort of office.

You in the Trackshot Studios? I'm in, uh, I'm in an airport hotel in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

Oh, shit.

[laughs]

You got food poisoning? You good? [laughs]

[laughs]

Damn.

Fly out.

[laughs]

What's his name? [laughs] Uh.

All right, so you're, you're in San-

Ooh

... I assume this is w- I assume this is work-related?

I'm, I'm lending a hand on, on a doc, but, um, the vibe is pretty interesting down here.

Uh, sure. What, what... In what sense? What... Interesting is a interesting word to use. Can you give us maybe s- what, what you mean by that exactly? [laughs]

Um, there's, like, 5,000 troops down here.

US troops from our, our beautiful country?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Got it, got it, got it.

I mean, this is the US, but-

I forgot

... Trump also has [laughs] a naval, like, basically surrounded Venezuela with naval ships.

Yeah, that's right. I've been reading about that.

You've been reading about it?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's pretty wild. He also just designated Maduro a terrorist.

Yes. Yes.

So what does it take to get designated a te- you just, he just has to say it, right? That's it? Well, I think, like, the idea, like, he u- he said that he is the head of this cartel that's called, like, Cartel of the Suns or something because it's-

Mm

... the military designation, um, on a uniform. But essentially I think, uh, my understanding is that it's a colloquialism that's used in Venezuela to be like, that's, like, someone that's a politician that's sort of made money in a corrupt way.

Mm-hmm.

So it would be like-

Sure

... saying, like, the Illuminati is a terrorist organization or something. [laughs]

Mm-hmm.

[laughs]

Well, it depends on how you feel about the Rock-

Right, right, right

... Nation brunch.

I mean, yeah.

But I think, I think it's a terrorist organization personally.

[laughs]

Uh.

But I think what he's doing basically for the last, like, since 9/11 all of the presidents like Obama, Brandon-

[laughs]

... Trump have all been using the AUMF, the Authorization for Military Force, to just bomb people, like, at their will without Congressional approval.

You're saying, you're saying, you're saying 'cause they're the big boss they can push the button without having to go through the normal channels because there's a bill that allows them to do that.

Yeah, but basically they have to say that someone's a terrorist-

I see

... to do that.

So okay, okay. So all they-

[laughs] So he's like-

[laughs]

So he's like, "He's a terrorist," so. [laughs]

Mm-hmm. And there's nobody to kinda check the paperwork on that. It's sorta like one man's opinion.

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And so now all of these soldiers have been denied leave for Thanksgiving.

Well, it's a fake holiday. I th- I'm fine with that.

[laughs] I mean, you know, it's not my favorite.

Hey, 9/11 was a fake attack too, you know?

Damn. Deep.

Inside job.

Gobble on that. Gobble on that. [laughs]

Go- [laughs]

[laughs]

Are you... Okay, so are you returning to, to your home?

Are you coming or are you going?

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know. I think I'm gonna see how it... No, no, I'm here. This is where I'm, uh... What did you guys do before you podcasted? Do you ever hang out in, like, we call this, like, a shoot hotel. You know, like a-

Because it's, let me guess, not nice and you have to be there and it's cheap?

[laughs] You can open the windows. That's always, like-

Well-

... [laughs] the most annoying thing

... okay, so you're the... But, but you're saying, I feel like the w- in your business you sort of, uh, have to come and go on a whim. You're, you're sort, you just sort of decide when it's time and buy a flight that day.

The life of a documentarian, I can only imagine.

[laughs]

Well, there was, like, a really funny, when I was working at Vice I had this bad habit of deciding that we were, that on my show we were gonna stay in, like, more interesting places.

Mm-hmm.

Which of course, like, all of the sound guys fucking hated because they want, like, AC and, like, a gym and, you know-

Oh yeah, that's cr-

... those kind of comforts. [laughs]

Let's do it.

Yeah.

I guess, I guess I'm a fucking sound guy then 'cause that's what I look for in a hotel too. [laughs]

[laughs] Really?

Yeah, Chris, he, Chris hates sleeping with, like, a mosquito net and things like that. I don't want interesting, I want nice as possible. I want a gold sink.

[laughs]

Like, what are you talking about?

A gold sink? [laughs]

I mean, that's a... [laughs]

Wow. [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

That escalated.

[laughs]

Okay, so he, he doesn't wanna see these local tribespeople building a, building their scars.

So you, so you wanna stay-

They want, I see. He wants a tour of the, the Loro Piana factory.

[laughs]

So you wanna stay in a fucking mud hut and the rest of the crew-

No

... is like, "Hey, can we get a, a Hampton Inn?"

[laughs]

The Two Seasons.

No.

[laughs]

Well, there was a... No, no. Actually it's, it sounds, no. There was one, there was one, um, episode that we did in Paris which was, like, we never went to places like France and I decided to take everybody to Hotel Amour.

Sure.

[laughs] And they were really bummed. [laughs]

I mean, look, Hotel Amour is-

[laughs]

... is fun if you're, I would say, in a relationship that started three months ago, you know?

Mm.

That, that's the vibe. I don't-

Can you, can you spl- explain why this, why your crew would not like this hotel for our listeners who don't know what you're talking about? Um-

As well as me

... all the rooms are sort of, like, different and candy colored, and there's, like, dicks on the carpet, and there's-

Okay. Okay. Okay

... no AC. There's no phone in the room. There's no television.

Yeah, it's like, it, it's, I-

It's just an anal palace is what you're saying.

I remember-

[laughs]

... staying there once, and the only way to bathe-Was in a bathtub that was at the foot of the bed- [laughs] ... and you had to stand up and pull the shut- [laughs] And I, I was like, I, I had to tell my, my now wife, I was like, "You gotta leave the room." Like, "I look like a fucking elephant in here. This is insane." Like, I'm splat-

No, sh- your partner is supposed to bathe you.

It... I mean, kind of.

[laughs] That would be amazing.

There's a great scene in your film where that happens. I don't wanna step on anything.

Oh, yeah. That's true. That's true. D- oh, you guys watched the movie.

Oh, I didn't. No, no, I didn't.

That's okay.

We'll get into it later. We're doing pleasantries now.

What did... Did you stick your tongue out at me? [laughs]

No, no, no. [laughs]

You're like, "I didn't, I didn't watch your movie," like, "Ugh." [laughs]

No, that's not, I would, I would-

Yeah, he, he didn't watch your movie. He's teasing you. Chris, Chris, uh, seemingly has become addicted to nicotine toothpicks. Is that what's going on in that little mouth of yours, buddy?

Uh, no, I do have one today. I've only, I've only had 10 total, so I don't know if I'm addicted yet, but I'm trying to get addicted-

Oh, yeah

... to get there.

Mm, that sounds good, a nicotine toothpick.

It gives you the bu- it gives you the buzz you need when you're feeling low and you got a podcast to record, you know what I mean?

I tried one of those, like-

Zin? [laughs]

Um, what is that?

Mm-hmm.

A Zin? Oh, yeah. Is that what it's called?

For the, the folks at home, she's sticking her-

Sorry [laughs]

... finger into her lip like she's a fish being hooked.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Um-

How did it feel?

I was with my composer, and I was like, "So what do I do?" And he was like, just like, "Put it in your mouth, and take it out when you think you're gonna throw up." [laughs]

[laughs]

Great, great quote on a contract.

And I did, I did put it in, I did put it in my mouth, and I was like, "Huh, I do feel like I might throw up."

Do you know, do you know what the milligram, do you know what the dosage-

No

... was?

I don't even, I didn't even know what the name of it was.

Yeah, 'cause there's different, I guess, in... 'Cause it's, it, it, it's born from, in like Sweden, in Scandinavia.

Mm. Mm.

And so when you go there, they have wild shit, like quadruple what you can get in the States.

Mm.

And you see like a g- a grandmother hitting that.

Really?

'Cause it's just, like, what they do. It's very strange. It's very strange.

Wow.

'Cause you have to take it out.

It d- I felt like it was gonna, like, burn a hole in my mouth, and then I would, like, drink water, and I would be, like, dribbling. [laughs]

But is this just like anything else? You just get used to it, and it feels good? Like, I mean, coke doesn't feel good either, but then you're like, "Well, this is pretty cool."

I think that you love it so much, you just don't care, you know?

Yeah, yeah. I g- I'm sure you build up a little tolerance, though.

Oh, yeah.

But what does the stick taste like?

Nothing.

Nothing.

It just, it kinda tastes a little bit woody.

[laughs]

The wooden toothpick is a little wood.

You'd say. [laughs]

It's giving wood.

No, I mean, I'm sure you can, I'm sure you can get, like, menthol or whatever, but like, I, I'm, I'm saying I think there's one that's, like, natural-

Yeah, yeah

... and it's just sort of nothing, I would say.

And Chris isn't chewing on the mojito flavored one. He's probably le- he said, "Let me get the plain." But this is the time of the year, you know, Thanksgiving, Christmas, where we all switch from our tea tree oil toothpicks to the cinnamon toothpick just to get festive. Is that something that you like to do for the holidays, HBG?

I mean, God, you guys have a real situation. [laughs] I would love that. I need to get into these sticks.

[laughs]

[laughs]

Actually, I did, I did a, I did, like, a close listen of your last-

Have you never had a toothpick?

... few episodes. I have had a toothpick.

Okay. Okay.

I love toothpicks.

It'd be so cool if you were like-

Okay

... "No, can you explain to me how those work?"

Tell me, please. [laughs]

What are those for exactly?

[laughs]

Okay, got it.

Also, like, I have a massive gap in the middle of my mouth, so I don't really get things stuck in it, you know?

That's pick country right there. So you need an XL model probably.

Yeah, you gotta get the, you gotta get the GMC Sierra.

[laughs]

Two by four. Let's do a four by four.

Back that thing in. Back that-

There's a plank, like, right to the fucking-

Did you, did you ever... Yeah, you have to go to Home Depot to get your toothpicks. Did you ever, when you were a kid-

Yeah

... was there pressure to close the gap?

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[laughs]

And you were able to resist that pressure 'cause you knew down the line, you're like, "This is gonna be hot. People like this."

[laughs] I don't know.

You said, "This ac- this gap's gonna do numbers on Tumblr, Mom. Just chill. Just let it marinate."

[laughs] I mean, I can... [laughs] I can really, like, squirt across the room with it, which is really exciting. [laughs]

Okay, but I feel, I feel like this, I feel like there could've been an or- an LA orthodontist that was kinda like, "Hey-

Yeah

... this is gonna fuck up your breathing or something." I, I feel like there, there-

It wasn't a money issue, of course.

[laughs]

I did have braces, and then I tried to take them off with a fork.

Hold on. Hold on. You're telling me you retained that gap with braces?

Well, they put braces on-

The retainer, I guess

... and then I tried to take them off with a fork, and then my mom was like, found me, you know? And I was like, had taken apart... I took the whole, like, wa-

[laughs]

I'm so bad at doing a podcast because I'm, like, make weird faces the whole time, [laughs] so I can't-

No, no, I mean, okay, so-

It's your first time

... so your mom caught you-

So I pulled, I pulled the wire off, and then my mom was like, okay, took the fork away and was like, "Give me a second." She came back, and she wrote up, like, a handwritten contract that said, "I tried to give you straight teeth, but you refused. You can't blame me later in life." [laughs]

[laughs]

And then I signed it, and she got them taken off.

Wow.

It was great.

That is, that's some of the coolest-

Yeah

... parenting I've ever heard. Um, and I hope-

Yeah

... I'm sure she still has that note in her important papers folder-

Mm

... just in case you act up.

Definitely not. [laughs]

[laughs] That's a re- that's a... Okay, so you, you re- but was it, was it gap that you were... Did you just not like the braces, though?

I don't know. I think I just, like, was really into it, but, you know.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

It's a strong sense of self at a young age. I never ha- I never had braces, and I-

You're a non-conformist

... I feel like it was okay, but I, I th-

Let's see your teeth.

Here. No, I-

All right.

No, that's good.

Pretty straight.

Yeah.

Yeah, you got a little-

I didn't have a cavity until I was-

You got some wieners on the bottom.

I got some wieners, but I feel like that gives-

Those are good. Those add character.

Yeah, yeah.

Those are hot.

We need that. We need that. The, the, the fake teeth thing is crazy.

Are you not veneer? Are you not for it?

No.

[laughs]

It's insane. Like, people's teeth, they're, like, purple.

[laughs]

And it's like a wall.

Because they're so white, they're purple. Interesting.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Like when they bleach their hair and they put the purple stuff in.

It's li- it's like a wall is a really... [laughs]

You know what I mean? You're like-

It is a wall. Well, do you, do you think that eventually, like, when, like, breast augmentation first came out-

Mm-hmm

... you know, a lot of people had to crawl before they walked, and a lot of people had to have someYou know, unfortunate results because it was early days, but now-

Right

... plastic surgery is so advanced and it's fine. Do you think in, like, 10 years we're all just gonna have veneers, the technology's gonna be good, they're, and they're not gonna look like fucked up white walls, it'll be natural and sh- accepted everywhere?

Uh, I don't know, man. [laughs]

Far out, man.

I'm not really, like, a future guy. [laughs]

Okay.

I feel, I feel like they're g- I feel like they're gonna be able to age them.

I just like the idea that when they take them off, like, they're, like, sanded down, like, creepy points, and you look like-

Mm.

I've never Googled that 'cause I don't wanna see it 'cause I think it'll give me the heebie-jeebies.

It looks like a monster.

But do you know what I heard? Some Hollywood goss that-

Let's go

... apparently they, there's, like, a huge market for people making real-looking teeth to go on the purple veneers so that they can look like a person in a movie.

So you're saying, okay, you're saying I'm a A-list actor, I've already had, I've, I'm, I'm Ryan Gosling, I've got my fillers, I've got my lips plumped.

Yeah.

I got my veneers, but I'm in a movie where I'm playing a little bit of a rough and tumble character.

Yeah.

I need some-

Yeah

So y- you can have, so you, once you have the vene- all your teeth sanded down, then you can just swap it out, these are my daily drivers, these are just my Goslings.

[laughs]

And then I'm gonna do another thing. So, like, y- and you can have your teeth created for every role. That seems smart, honestly.

It, it's like when women wear sneakers to work and they keep the Jimmy Choos in their purse-

Oof

... and change when they get to the office.

Mm.

It's the s- it's the teeth version of that.

Oof. That's tough.

Wow. That makes s- that doesn't surprise me at all though, because they are distracting in a H- a sc- a Hollywood setting.

Yeah.

Yeah. When people have the, the really fucked up veneers, it's really hard to really develop a relationship or friendship with them.

Can get, like, a sunburn. You're like... [laughs]

It also costs 60 grand or something, or maybe more. It's, like, very big.

Not in Tijuana.

It's expensive.

60 grand? [laughs] Wow.

Yeah, I think it can be, I think it can be, like, I mean, obviously depending on the quality, but I think it's like anything else. If you want the good ones, it's, like, very, very expensive.

Mm.

I'm sure down in the DR you can get it for pennies on the dollar.

You could be, you could probably find some stuff cheap where you are right now.

[laughs] Wait, I, I wanted to mention something, which is that I did, like, a close listen of your last two episodes.

Mm-hmm.

Oh.

Um, try to, you know, get a sense of the, theJs.

Sure.

Um, and when I say Js, I mean jokes. And Js. [laughs] I, when I, you were talking about teeth, it reminded me of something really funny that you said at the beginning about, like, do you know what it feels like to get head from a forefather or something. [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

And then I was like, okay, I think I'm gonna be all right. [laughs]

What was, what was that in r- I remember there's a little-

We were talking about how Diddy-

Something about, like, wooden teeth or something

... because Di- uh, because Diddy looks like Fredrick Douglass-

He looks like Fredrick Douglass

... in jail without his, uh-

[laughs]

... access to his salon.

[laughs] Oh my God.

And it's clear that he's giving people head in prison, so you're gonna look down and be like-

Mm

... "Damn, it look, it looks like our, one of our nation's forefathers is, is bricking me off a little."

Little piece of head. Little piece of head. When you-

Little piece of head

... when you repeat that, it sounds even stupider than when I heard it the first time, but I still, I still like it.

[laughs]

So it, it's good.

Yeah.

Well, it was just, like, I was trying to figure out, like, where, you know, the Venn diagram of us connected, and it felt like-

Sure

... there. And when you said something about, like, can you get syphilis from DVDs or something. [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

I was like, all right. These, these are my kind of jokes. [laughs]

Yeah, 'cause normally, normally somebody comes on, they're like, "Yeah, so I'd been listening to your pod, I listen... Yeah, the, the one with Jarvis Cocker, that was really good. And yeah, it's, it was awesome." And you're like, "So getting head from the Forefather and getting syphilis from DVDs, these are my 10-"

That's my, that's my-

"... those are my North Stars that I run to."

Exactly. Exactly.

What's your, yeah, w- how hard is your Blu-ray collection hitting, or are you a digital chick?

Um, I got DVDs.

You do have DVDs? Okay.

Yeah, yeah. I like DVDs.

Blu-ray is technically a digital medium, just I don't wanna be a nitpicker.

No.

Sorry.

But you know what I mean.

Okay.

I know what you mean.

I, I just, I, I just feel like it's so cumbersome, but you don't, you don't move them around.

I have, like, a-

You just have a-

I have, like, a one of those big ugly, like, '90s, you know.

Oh, a binder.

Oh, really?

A binder.

A binder, yeah.

Like a Case Logic.

The soft one. [laughs] Yeah. With the zipper.

So d- but that's better than the shelf unit on display. That's a little more incel-y, right?

No. Yeah, I don't do that.

Yeah, you're not a-

Okay

... you're not an incel with a podcast on The Ringer network.

What's The Ringer?

The Ringer is a network of podcasts where guys talk about movies like it's life and death, but they don't work at, they don't-

They're pe- [laughs]

They just talk-

They like college football, but they do a three-hour episode about Bloodsport 2 and how sick it was, or, like-

Yeah

... we're gonna debate RoboCop for four hours.

What's Bloodsport? I haven't seen that.

Blood- you haven't seen Bloodsport? I mean, I haven't seen it-

Uh-uh

... but I'm a- I'm aware of it. I mean, I'm very aware of it.

That sounds really up my street.

It's a, it's a Jean-Claude Van Damme. It was his debut film-

Ooh

... from 1988, and I think recently I just read something that Trump, when he watches the film, he makes them fast-forward only to the fight scenes.

Whoa.

Maybe he likes his body, I don't know.

[laughs]

Great. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah.

Of course Whitaker's in it.

[laughs] He likes his body.

He likes his body.

I think. [laughs]

Who's to s- I mean, Jean-Claude in '88, you kidding me?

He's a split king.

He is a split king. [laughs]

Doing, that, that's the new verse. Doing a split is, as a man, is cra- it seems like one of the hardest things to train for.

I know. What happens? Can you guys do a split?

No.

Oh, I can barely touch my toes.

[laughs]

Are you kidding me?

Really?

No, I can't. I'm joking. But-

Okay

... doing a split is, I don't know any man who can do a split if, unless-

Hunter can.

Where do the balls go?

Oh, Hunter can. My trainer in LA can.

[laughs]

Who's Hunter?

I never thought about where do the balls go. Because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm more flexible than him, not to, not to flex, but, you know, but I definitely cannot do the splits, but I can get probably closer than Chris can, but never close enough to where I had to factor in ball.

Mm.

Hopefully one day I'll have that inconvenience as my limberness continues to grow.

[laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

These questions you're asking are just too hard. I can't deal with this.

I'm sorry. Okay.

Stop putting us on the spot.

Okay.

Okay, you mentioned earlierUm, with the gap in the teeth-

Hmm

... that you can quote unquote squirt across the room.

[laughs]

And I-

Yeah

... I was thinking recently when people ask you, they're like-

Where do the balls go?

[laughs] When people ask, like, "What's your, like, dumb talent," or whatever-

Yeah

... I realize that mine is spitting.

Mm.

Not, not tooth gleeking or spraying, like how you're talking about.

Gleeking, gleeking is disgusting.

But gleeking is through the middle teeth. That's what you're talking about.

No. Gleeking is, like, under the tongue.

You push it out. You-

The amount of times that I've put my hands in my mouth [laughs] in this conversation is just-

[laughs]

... an abomination.

I thought gleeking, I thought gleeking was you pushed the saliva through the middle teeth on the top.

No. It's like you can somehow activate your, like, spit gland underneath your tongue.

Kind of like a snake and his venom.

You sound-

Yeah

... you sound like Diddy in jail. Okay.

[laughs]

So you can activate your spit glands.

I used to be able to gleek. I don't know how now.

Really?

I, I, I thought, I think I could gleek too, but now I'm rethinking everything because I think-

Gleek 2: The Remove

... I, I think I-

[laughs]

... I think I had the, the definition of gleek incorrect.

Yeah, you fucked up.

Yeah. It's gross. How do you activate the gleek, though?

[laughs] If I could explain that, you know.

Okay.

People gleek. You don't teach someone how to gleek. You just do it or you don't, you know?

I don't think people gle- I don't think people gleek-

[laughs]

... after eighth grade, but I, I do [laughs] think, I do think they do it.

Something that you don't carry on later into your life.

What... Sorry, can we, um, talk about how you discovered that you're really good at spitting?

It, it was literally probably in the last month when I realized, like-

[laughs]

... I'm good at spitting, not only... Because, like, when I was a kid, I used to-

[laughs]

... you know, like, being a bored teen or whatever-

Okay

... have, like, a spitting contest when you're, like, 10 years old or something.

Guys, podcasting is crazy. [laughs]

He's closer to 50 than he is 20.

Yeah. Okay.

I just wanna be very clear about this discovery. It's, it's-

I'm, I'm not saying that I spit all the time as a sport now. I'm saying in this position in my life, I realize that I'm actually quite good at spitting, both for distance, but more so for accuracy and precision. I can hit a target all over the place.

Okay. But not answering the question. Like-

Wh- what's the question?

[laughs] The question was how did you discover it? Like, what were you spitting at to figure out that you were so great [laughs] at it?

Hey, mom. Which one of your neighbors-

I probably just hit another one of my great targets.

[laughs]

You know, like, like I was in... You know, maybe I'm in LAX and I got a little spit to come out.

Wait, wait. Are you talking about spit like, like, like a [censored]?

I didn't want you to have to say that word, and I apologize we took you there.

I know. I'm sorry. Can you, can you bleep it?

It's more...

It's so gross.

I'll, I will gladly bleep it.

It's so gross.

It'll make our listeners fucking horny hearing you bleep that.

I literally can't believe it came out of my mouth. It was like... [laughs]

It's more just, just general excess saliva that's built up in my, in my mouth.

You, you actually kind of blushed when I said it. [laughs]

I didn't like it.

Ooh.

I have to be honest, I really didn't like it.

[laughs]

And I... You don't have to apologize because we led you there.

It was really gross. Okay.

But just moving forward, let's...

[laughs] I know. It was just, it was a follow-up question. I'm still having trouble with the spitting visually. Sorry. It's like, so you, you're trying to spit in, like, a trash can? Or, like... Can you talk about the targets.

I just washed my hand. I'm washing my hands. I'm in LAX. I got to spit. I can confidently spit and it lands in the drain of the sink, goes down the hole.

Ugh.

Almost 100% accuracy. Whene- like, if whatever sink I'm in, high, low, big, small, I can spit it straight down into the drain probably with 100% accuracy.

Okay.

Sorry, control, control yourself, Haley. I can tell that you're very-

This is a... [laughs] Slow down, ladies. I'm single.

[laughs]

[laughs]

But this is, like, a... I could drop it. You, I could use gravity or I could pro-

[laughs]

Or I could propel.

[laughs] You could use gravity.

I've actually, I hate to say this, but we've spent so much time together, I have seen him use gravity. And I, I, I'm now replaying this-

Ugh

... in my mind, that I have, I have witnessed this.

[laughs]

I can't attest to the accuracy.

It doesn't really feel like a party trick, which is sort of, uh, the way that you-

No, it's not. It's not

... introduced it. [laughs]

It's a silent, it's a silent victory.

Feels like a solo journey. Yeah.

It is. It is.

Or, like, a one-on-one.

Can you juggle, Haley? What can you do if you-

Can you juggle? [laughs]

Like, as far as a party trick goes, can you do anything cool?

Well, I can, like, spit a drink, like, through my teeth-

I don't want to s-

... at someone's face

... I don't, I don't want your vodka soda in my nose. I just mean, like-

I don't drink a vodka soda

... you know, if there's anything more sanitary.

More san... I can d- I can do the cherry stem in and out with my tongue like a motherfucker. [beep]

What is Revolve Man, Jason? It's... Oh, funny you ask.

What's a Revolve Man?

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Genuinely, yeah. It's one of those things, we're all busy. Let's say we got an important dinner coming up at the end of the week. It's Tuesday. You're working every single day. You don't have time to go shopping and try clothes on and blah, blah, blah, or even just browse. You know, Revolve, it's all there. It's all curated for what you want, and then you click buy, you go to bed. Couple days later, that shows up in packaging that's a little nicer than y- the other places you're buying clothes from, and you've got a nice look for the big night out. And then you're like, "Wait a minute, I don't even have to return this because I enjoy this clothing and I wanna wear it again another time," versus all those dumb other websites. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last minute that actually works, Revolve Man always has it. Go to revolveman.com/howlong to shop and use code HOWLONG for 15% off your order, free two-day shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That is revolve.com/howlong and use the promo code HOWLONG to get 15% off your entire order. Offer ends soon. Don't sleep on it. And you don't need clothes too. You can get just, you know, a cool candle or an incense gift for a baby shower, whatever it is. Revolve.com/howlong.

Hi, Talkhouse network listeners. It's your old friend Nels Cline from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer, and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan; Chautauqua, New York; Lafayette, New York; Bethlehem, Pennsylvania; Vienna, Virginia; Forest Hills, New York; Portland, Maine; Tulsa, Oklahoma; Memphis, Tennessee; LaGrange, Georgia; Charleston, South Carolina; Virginia Beach, Virginia; Wheeling, West Virginia; and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson, that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilcoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer

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Now, have you ever been able to successfully teach somebody how to do that?

No, it's like-

You're touched by God.

[laughs]

Mm-hmm.

You're touched by God.

Thank you.

And I, I'm, I'm-

Thank you

... I'm jealous. I don't have any skills at all, really. I can't do anything besides balance something, Jason, as you know, on my finger or chin.

No, Chris is a good balancer.

Hmm. Okay.

I'm qui- like, like give me an umbrella, and I will balance it on my pinky finger for upwards of 60 seconds or more.

All right.

Chris is simply-

Foster Keith

... built different. [laughs]

[laughs]

Yeah. [laughs]

[sings]

Actually, just maybe two weeks ago or less, Chris showed a video of a guy in a grocery store. He picked up a shopping cart off the ground, like, uh, and lifted it over his head, balanced the shopping cart handle on his, like, chin-

Hmm

... and then, and then held the shopping cart above his head. And Chris said, "I feel like I could probably do that."

I think, honestly, I think I could. If, if there was, if there was enough pressure on me and I was in an empty Whole Foods, I feel like I could-

[laughs]

... at least go down a single aisle and back, sort of like a farmer's carry.

If you were in, like, a Fantasy Factory.

You have, like, a big head.

I, yes, I do. I do.

Yeah.

[laughs]

I've been told-

Let's, like, let's see your chin.

[laughs]

Yeah.

It's pretty, it's, it's, I think-

It's a good canvas for balancing.

Yes.

Yeah. [laughs]

That's a g- [laughs]

For what? Loupes?

I don't know. Maybe your spit. Yeah. [laughs]

Yeah.

Ugh. Chill out.

Sorry, but you guys are-

Y'all are, y'all two are na- y'all two are nasty. This took a nasty little turn.

Sorry. Sorry.

I'm, I'm going to my room.

This is... Yeah, this is not chic. [laughs]

Well, actually, well, s- speaking of nasty mess, Haley.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Uh, it, it's a good way to begin speaking about s- a few scenes in your film.

Hmm.

Um, there's, uh, without spoiling what's going on exactly-

Yeah

... there's a scene where, let's say, one, one, there's two people, maybe one person could be out of the other person's league, but she was able to attain him in a sexual manner by exploiting her crush's fetish.

Hmm. Yeah.

And I was thinking, like, if you really have a crush on somebody and you don't really have a chance to ever be with them-

Mm-hmm

... try to figure out what their dark sexual fetish is and learn how to exploit that weakness. Only, you know, in a safe way, of course, not in a dark way.

Romance is listening, Jason.

[laughs] Romance is listening, is that what you said?

Yeah, that's what I said.

Not, not in a literal sense. I, I think-

Who the fuck is romance?

[laughs]

I don't know if, I would know if I would use the-

Is romance in the room?

I would-

[laughs]

I don't know if I would use the word exploit in this situation. I feel like it would be-

Well, you haven't seen the scene, though.

Right, you haven't seen the movie.

But explo- I mean, that just feels like everybody's got something.

Okay, I'll say it, I'll say it, and I'll bleep it.

Okay. Just so-

So she-

Wait, wait. No, no. No, no. Wait, wait, wait. Don't ruin it.

[laughs] I said I'll bleep it.

Are you gonna watch the movie?

Maybe. I have a link.

[laughs]

I have to see when it expires.

Wait, I heard that you guys are going to Japan.

I'm going to Japan.

Oh, just you?

Mm.

Well, we can talk about Japan. I just thought maybe it's not as interesting for Jason 'cause he's not going.

I love Japan. I'm not going.

Well, he's been, but I've never been before.

Oh, he's been. Okay.

I've never been before, so it's a big deal for me.

I just got back.

Yeah, I, they, somebody mentioned that, I think. What was the occa- were you working there, or you were just-

No, my film was in the Tokyo Film Festival. And Jason, that scene really played well. [laughs]

Oh, really? I mean, I guess down in Japan-

[laughs]

... they really like certain sexual fetishes, don't they?

It was exciting. There was a lot of, uh, men in the audience asking me questions after the Q&A. [laughs]

But are they allowed to li- are they allowed to like it? You know what I mean? Or do they have to-

Are they allowed to like it? Jesus.

It's not China.

[laughs]

I just, it feels like there's a lot of shame, is what I'm saying, culturally. So maybe some of that stuff, they're not going to jump up and down about it, is all I'm saying.

No, it was pretty fun and loose.

That's good.

This i- this is where tentacle porn was birthed and still strives, Chris. This, whatever was in her film-

Oh, I'm not arguing, I'm not arguing that they're freaks.

Okay.

I'm saying that talking about it and being a freak are two different things.

Right, right. Enjoying it behind closed doors versus in the Q&A, like, "Oh, excuse me, um-

[laughs]

... is it possible if you could shit on me for money?" You know, like, no one's really, you know, or maybe that's happening in Japan.

"Excuse me, my wife won't shit on me. Is there, do you have any tips-

[laughs]

... that you can help me with? Just since we're here."

[laughs] Um-

So should I, should I be excited, or should I be-

Yeah, it's so great.

Yeah.

I know. I, I feel like I f-

It's like, it's maybe one of the only places in the world that completely lives up to the expectation.

Well, that's actually big 'cause you're right, I'm usually disappointed with most things.

So you, this, this film won... What did it win at Sundance?

Um, it won the Grand Jury Prize.

Damn, bro. GJP.

[laughs]

And then did you win anything in, uh, in Tokyo or not so much?

No. [laughs]

Okay.

[laughs]

Okay. Well, fuck those guys.

[laughs] No.

I'm sure you had some great meals, though, right?

[laughs] No, it was great.

So when is it coming out?

It's coming out, um, December 11th.

Okay.

At IFC.

Oh, s- okay, soon.

Yeah.

Soon.

Yeah.

In IFC in New York?

Uh-huh.

Okay.

And then wider in January.

Got it. I love it. I'm glad you're getting out there before Marty Supreme. That's important.

[laughs] Smart.

Thank God.

We gotta, we gotta shut these motherfuckers up.

[laughs]

So I need this thing to c- I need this thing to c- I saw today that it's coming out in 70 millimeter in New York and LA o- before Christmas-

Oh, thank God

... for the n- for the heads, just for the heads.

Oh, really? Yeah.

C- can you as a filmmaker-

Yeah

... can you, can you explain to me why these mouth breathers love 70 millimeter so much? And does it actually change the experience of seeing something? Be honest.

It's 35 times two, Chris. You're a film guy. You should get this.

[laughs]

I g- I got that.

[laughs]

I got the math of it. I just feel, I just feel like-It, it sounds to me like, you know sometimes when people are like, "This album's not mastered," or whatever, and I'm like-

Yeah

... I couldn't really tell the difference if you didn't say that to me, you know?

I mean, I'm a real sound guy, I have to say. So for me, if the sound is bad, it's way worse than if, you know, the picture is fantastic. But yeah, it's funny. Like, during all that One Battle After Another stuff, people were like, "What are you seeing it in?" But all these, like, doinks kept going to see it in VistaVision [laughs] and it was, like, jamming the whole time.

VistaVision is tough.

So, like, I'd kinda rather see, like, a movie all the way through.

You're just... You're like, "I'm here to see it kinda from beginning to end. I don't really care how it gets there."

[laughs] Yeah.

See if we can r- show a whole movie without it stopping.

[laughs]

I guess what I'm saying, d- just 70- but when they screen something in 70 millimeter, it, they often charge more too, correct, to see it that way?

I don't know.

I think, I think perhaps, yeah. I mean, it, I would say it's the difference between listening to an MP3 versus listening to a CD or a record. Most people, 99% of the people will not be able to tell a difference, and then the people who really appreciate it are able to. But I think literally it's just, like, the film is twice as big, so the screen size is bigger, so there's just that, you know?

Sure.

That's kind of the main thing.

It looks great when you can see it, but I don't think it should deter you from seeing films in other ways.

Yeah, I mean, it's the same people who are, like, get upset when, like, the new version of the DVD Blu-ray extra has, like, different color grading, and, like, the tone has shifted from blue to purple-

Mm

... and they stepped on Tarantino's warm oranges in digital transfer and shit. You're like, you're like, "Okay, bro."

Relax.

Y'all need to touch some grass.

Y'all need to relax in general.

Y'all needs to, y'all need to squirt across the room. [laughs]

[laughs]

Y'all just squirt.

Okay, so-

Yeah, you and Karen

... one thing I noticed after watching, I wa- I watched it last night-

Yeah, yeah

... with my wife, and my wife loved it.

Yeah.

She was like, "Damn, this movie is fucking sick."

Oh my God, great.

So good job. She usually doesn't-

You loved it less?

I loved it le- I loved it, but she really liked it. She was, she liked it more than I did.

Great.

Let's call it I'll give it an eight, she gave it a 10.

[laughs]

Ugh, you asked.

Okay.

Sorry. [laughs] Um, how important do you think it is to have hotties in your film, regardless of the subject matter and what's going on?

I'm just obsessed with people's faces, you know? And I have to stare at their face for so long.

In the edit, in the edit bay.

Yeah. And if I don't like people's faces, then it makes the job really hard.

[laughs]

And I got really lucky with those faces.

That's a really cool way to put it. That's a really cool way to put it.

It's a poetic way of saying, "No uggos allowed." [laughs]

[laughs]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs]

But I noti- I mean, for a film that is dealing with these specific subject matters, I was like, wait a minute, every, every person, I mean, especially people who had the little kind of cameos, like newscasters and bits and bobs here and there, obviously Callum and, and everyone else, there's a lot of very attractive people in this film, and I was wondering if that was just luck of the draw or if this was something that you considered more so.

Love beauty. What can I say?

Yeah, sure.

I get it. I mean, it makes more people-

[laughs]

It also makes more people wanna watch it. I-

But everybody ha- but everybody has a really interesting face. Like, they're not just, like... And there's no, like, everybody's eyebrows are moving in some fantastic ways. [laughs]

Are you an eyebrow watcher?

Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but, like, a lot of people can't move their eyebrows.

God.

No.

Jason, she's commenting on the amount of plastic surgery happening in Hollywood that is stopping faces from emoting.

You know, honestly, I never notice it.

Really?

Me neither. No, I've never even thought about it.

Really?

Yeah.

But you can't-

Yeah

... but then you can't see, like, anguish and, like-

Are, are you, uh, are you planning on moving yours at some point in this, our convo, or...?

[laughs]

[laughs]

Yeah, you're talking a lot of shit.

I've been doing, like, a caterpillar dance with my eyebrows for the last 15 minutes. [laughs]

Little fishing line on them.

I'm looking at your forehead, and that shit is, like, a little too clean.

[laughs]

That's all I'm gonna say. Little too clean.

Forehead looking like veneers.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. [laughs] Forehead, like, forehead like-

Tell them it's not true. That's so fucked up. [laughs]

For our listeners at home, her eyebrows have moved.

Look.

Um, obviously. Look at them. She's trying. She's trying to get one of them. She got one of them almost gone.

She's performatively moving them for us now to prove that they do in fact work.

Um, no, but I just think it's, like, such a fucking shame because that's where, you know-

Of course

Yeah

... everything comes from. Like, that's your fucking... These are... Sorry, keep pointing to things.

Without the eyebrows, Jim Carrey would not have a career.

No.

But anything. It's like you can't see, like, a cry build or, like, somebody, you know-

Mm-hmm

... may be constipated, for example.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

That's what I wa- that's what I pay my $15 to see.

[laughs]

So I gotta-

Well, [laughs] come to see Entropia. [laughs]

I forgot about the constipation story arc as well.

I, I think that... But do you think this is simply... I mean, obviously vanity is, is the, the major factor, but do you think it's because th- a lot of these people are forced to look at themselves so much that they really can pick apart what the, the perceived issues are, and then they go correct them to the point where it, it goes too far?

I mean, I don't wanna, like, pathologize the reasons for it, but I just as, like, a director want to work with people who's got, you know, loose eyebrows.

Sure. Sure.

People with a n- a natural malleable face-

Yeah

... that hasn't been frozen with injectables. Got it. Got it.

Got it. Got it. I mean, unless it's, like, part of the story. But even when it was, like, part of the story... Well, no, never mind. [laughs]

What, what are you...

[laughs]

Don't talk about Nicole Kidman like that.

[laughs]

She's, she's not here to defend herself.

It's true. [laughs]

[laughs]

Um-

What?

One, a thing that I was noticing about the film, even though it, like, it was, it was taking place in what, like, 2006-ish?

Yeah.

Is that?

Mm-hmm.

But it also felt as if it was in the not too distant future. So it was, it was, I felt like I was watching something-Like, you, you've created a fictional world and a place which is basically-

No, no, it's a real place.

Okay. It's a, it's a real place, but-

Yeah

... um, okay, sorry. It's a real place. M- maybe a lot of people did not know it existed.

Sorry. [laughs]

Um-

Sorry. [laughs]

But it, it feels like something... I guess the story involving this place feels like something that could be happening in the future.

Mm. Mm.

People who work as actors in these war simulation, you know, theme park training facilities are gonna use that as a way to find fame in our, in our not-too-distant dystopian land.

Yeah.

You know, "I'm gonna become an actor at this military camp playing an Iraqi mustard gas scientist, and then Channing Tatum's gonna come and discover me, and I'm gonna be a movie star, and life is good." But, uh, it, it... so it, it had me thinking like, "Oh, damn, this is what's gonna happen in the future," but it was also 20 years ago, so you kinda have that fun little, you know, vintage throwback feel to when-

Mm

... all of, all of our, you know, prime, primetime heyday was-

Mm-hmm

... 2006-ish, you know?

Yeah.

You're younger than us, but, you know, you're... I'm sure you were thriving in 2006.

I had my driver's license.

[laughs] This bitch.

You know, it was exciting. [laughs]

[laughs]

Yeah, no, it's crazy. I mean, you know, it's strange to be in Puerto Rico right now because there w- there's an island off of Puerto Rico that they used to use for training. They were just... The Navy was kind of, like, playing with every bomb they were testing.

Mm.

And Venezuela is just, you know, right in front of us here, and it sits on, like, an ocean of fucking oil. There's more oil in Venezuela than there is in the whole of the Middle East, and they're basically seemingly trying to, like, manufacture consent again to go invade a place [laughs] with-

Mm

... an ocean of oil that, you know, maybe is a little bit closer to America. [laughs] So your gas prices might get lower a little sooner.

It's, it's very convenient.

Yeah.

Save a little time. Let's just... you know, why not? Why not?

So we just have to say that they have fentanyl, and then they're terrorists.

Exactly. [laughs]

They're fentanyl terrorists, so we better go in there and take over their country.

Exactly.

And maybe a little oil could come along with it.

It's definitely, you know, prescient. And, and they also are... I mean, the... So they basically built these... D- Chris, do you want me to explain this to you?

Sure.

Do you understand what we're talking about? 'Cause it, it's, it's [laughs] a little oblique the way that we've been talking. [laughs]

I mean, I under- I understand it enough.

He can get it. He can get it.

Basically, after 9/11-

There's some context clues

... they built, um, Hollywood set builders were hired to build-

Oh, I... oh, yes

... these-

This I... yeah, this, this-

... Iraqi villages for training purposes

... yeah, yeah, I know that. You actually, you actually explained this to me before.

Oh, I did?

Yeah.

Oh.

You've explained this to me before.

Oh, at Charlie's wedding?

Yes.

Okay. I was like, "I cannot remember..." I was like, "The only thing I remember saying [laughs] to you was if someone asks you to have a meeting for breakfast, they're a sex pest." [laughs]

[laughs] I'm, I'm famously anti. That's Chris time. I don't meet-

Breakfast meetings have a guilty energy to them

... but that's what we were talking about.

Yeah.

We were like, "If you wanna have a breakfast meeting, like, thou doth protest too much," you know?

Mm-hmm.

It's like, there's-

Yeah

... you are hiding something. [laughs]

No, 100%.

Can't trust 'em.

Yep, don't tr- can't trust that. No deals getting done.

Yeah.

[laughs]

But anyway-

The only way I'm not raping you is at breakfast.

[laughs] But anyway, they, they built these villages. They were, they were sort of, you know, essentially look like kind of Aladdin sets.

Mm.

And they were mostly Iraq and Afghanistan, and then, um, they've since now been going through, like, a turnover of Russian and, like, South China Sea and, you know, kind of all, all the places where-

They're, they're able to pivot to our new targets.

Mm-hmm. But they're all over Southern California. Like, LA, you don't think about it, but it's... Southern California's one of the most militarized parts of the entire United States. Like, if you drive-

Hell yeah

... an hour in any direction, you're gonna hit a base.

I've been to Orange County before. I see what's going-

Yeah, I mean-

I see what's going on down there.

I grew up very close to the naval base, and, like, when-

The Pendleton?

No, not Pendleton. Like the-

Oh

... the naval base in, like, uh, Long Beach, Seal Beach kind of.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And my brother and I, we used to go, like, ride BMX bikes with all the cool older kids who would, like, smoke weed and go, like, BMX-ing over there. And you would discover, like, bunkers and, like, turrets and, you know, World War II-

Why do you think California is such-

... artifacts

... such a fertile ground for this?

It was, it was, like, a target in, uh, World War II with, with Japan, so we had to really boost up that LA coastline 'cause more pe- you know, you wanna, you wanna bomb LA more than Eureka or Humboldt or-

[laughs] So then next line of defense-

Sure, sure, sure

... after Hawaii, yeah.

Salem, Oregon.

Technically, yeah, sure. You might as well make a real dent.

I'm assuming.

Make a real dent.

I'm no, uh, I'm no Shane Gillis. I don't know all the WW2 stuff.

[laughs]

[laughs]

But it's definitely, like... but the set building in particular obviously has... there's a real, uh, military to Hollywood pipeline.

And it's smart as a, uh, independent filmmaker to be like, "The... what we want to achieve if we were to build the sets ourselves," we, y- I'm assuming you wouldn't have the budget to do that, so-

Yeah

... being able to rent out these places that were designed by the people who would make them in Hollywood if you were to hire them-

Yeah

... is, you know, it's almost like a peer space, but for a Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 set.

The place that we shot at is a movie ranch.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and it was built at the same time. It's where they shot, like, everything from-American Sniper to like-

Sniper 2

I actually, there's a Marvel-

Gun

... movie where somebody's like an arms dealer or something. I-

You're talking to the wrong Striegats, baby.

I'm talking to the wrong, yeah, yeah.

Me no know.

I thought you were gonna help me.

I just like, I just like real war. I don't like this play war shit. I'm more of a p-

[laughs]

You know what I mean?

Real war? You like real war?

Yeah, when the, like the stuff's actually happening, you know what I mean?

He's watching Drudge Report, you know? He's checking out CNN.

[laughs]

[laughs]

He's not doing this Hollywood bullshit, okay?

I am kind, I'm kind of into the new Department of War name.

Department of War, it, it honestly-

Because at least they're just like saying what they're doing now.

[laughs]

You know? They're like, "This is what we're doing."

It sounds like a hardcore band, but it also does level, it just levels sets.

It's so wild. [laughs]

Defense is like in case something happens, we have a military. Hopefully we'll never have to use it. And they're saying like, "We are on the offense."

It's cool because that came and went. I just feel like there's so much stuff happening that that is so insane, but it really came and went pretty fast as far as-

It's so insane. [laughs]

Nobody really was like, "Oh shit, that's crazy," and then it was onto the next thing.

Also, I guess Pete Hegseth was like interviewed after Trump, uh, designated, uh, Maduro a terrorist, and he was like, "This opens up a lot of options for us." [laughs]

[laughs]

[laughs]

It's so insane.

It's so much easier to war.

They really just say the quiet part out loud all the time now. And so you like, it's really difficult 'cause you can't really get mad. I mean, you c- you, you need to get mad, but it's like, you know, they just hand it to you.

That sort of radical honesty does put people on their heels, I would say, as far as what their response can be. 'Cause it is jarring after being lied to for your entire adult life, you know, by these people. So I think it is-

It is. [laughs] Totally.

I don't think it's on purpose. I don't think they get what they're doing, but I think it, it works by, you know, accident almost.

Yeah.

There was a, I, I noticed a through line. I wanted to ask you if this was a, an inspiration for you on the film. I kinda felt like, uh, I was getting a lot of Wet Hot American Summer, but it was like a Camp Pendleton versus a summer camp.

Hmm. I was thinking more like Team America: World Police, but-

Hmm, hmm, hmm.

Hmm.

I see some of that as well. I, I think maybe with like the, the loudspeaker announcement to everyone and the bunks-

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

... kind of thing, it was really-

Have you ever seen MASH?

I [laughs] I have seen MASH, yeah.

[laughs]

They also do that?

You mean the most popular TV show ever made?

No, I mean the movie. [laughs] Yeah.

I think I must have seen that-

[laughs]

MASH-

... when I was younger

... uh, yeah, Robert Altman film.

Sure.

That is full of really, really stupid jokes-

Yeah

... that are wonderful. And so, but he really famously kind of during the edit panicked and decided to shoot all these loudspeakers to like make the movie make more sense. Um, and so-

Mm-hmm

... as we were, I, you know, wanted to have a loudspeaker in nod to him.

I need a speaker moment.

Yeah, a speaker moment.

Um, I also liked using the iPod as like a torture device in the film kind of.

[laughs] Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I thought that was really interesting. Without g-

[laughs]

Without giving it away as well, but-

Yeah, yeah

... I really like your, your vision of the kind of the military corporal punishment tactics, you know, we- woven into that 2006 era.

Well, all of the things in it are based on my just a- absolutely demented research. So most of it is real. Like, they really made the families dress up on Thanksgiving.

[laughs]

The, the animatronics that are in there-

Mm-hmm

... were real animatronics that they used on the base.

Damn.

Uh, the first one I went through was at Pendleton, and I was with this squadron of boys going through. And they have, I think the first, uh, village that they built was in this old tomato factory, and it's basically like, it's like an escape room or like a haunted house kind of. It's the most goofy-

Hold on, hold on, hold on

... [laughs]

What's a tomato factory?

[laughs]

It's like, it's a [laughs] I don't know. That's what they told me it was. It's like a big hangar.

Okay. 'Cause those are grown outdoors, so I was confused-

Yeah, yeah

... as to-

Well, it's outdoor. It's sort of like a-

Wasn't sure if it was like a euphemism for something.

Yeah, I thought you were using some military speak I wasn't privy to.

Like when you describe a, a boxer who-

[laughs] To-

... who loses a lot, he'd be a tomato can.

[laughs]

You know what I mean? Like, uh.

Is that real?

Yeah, people like a, a guy who-

I thought you guys aren't into boxing.

If you, if you get hit and bleed a lot, you're, you, you can be dubbed a tomato can, a, a guy who bleeds a lot.

That's a pretty f-

Or, or a lady, I guess.

That's a pretty fun way to put it.

Oh, a tomato can, yeah.

Yeah, a tomato can.

You have friends that bleed a lot at parties?

I haven't seen someone bleed in a while, if I'm being honest with you.

You gotta check out her new film. It's, uh, in theaters December 11th.

I'm talking like real-life bleeding. When's the last time you've seen like real life-

I was bleeding yesterday. I got a Band-Aid on there right now.

Yeah, yeah. Seeing somebody bleed at a party. That's a good question.

Yeah. You're, you got a boo-boo from hanging up Christmas lights. We're talking about f- like bleeding, bleeding.

No, a boo-boo? [laughs]

Definitely how, how'd you get that cut, Jason?

Hanging up Christmas lights.

That's right.

Really? [laughs]

That's right.

Blood is blood.

I, I don't think I've ever seen anyone, not at a party. Like, I've never seen someone just get punched for like mouthing off in my entire life.

Well-

I haven't, yeah, I haven't seen someone-

Never

... get socked in a while.

Y'all are some bitches. I mean, not you, him.

I just like-

[laughs]

I'm, I'm sure Haley has seen a lot of people get punched at a party.

Yeah, I'm working on vice.

Yeah, I've definitely seen... Yeah.

I've seen-

Vice. [laughs]

No, I've, I've seen some like scuffling and like a tackle, but I've never seen, I've never seen somebody get straight up punched, like broken nose at a party.

Really?

That feels like something from a teen movie.

Hmm. I guess, yeah, yeah. Man.

I went to parties as a teen.

Man.

That's where the punching happens.

No, good point. Good point.

[laughs]

Maybe I'm a pussy.

No, no, no, you're not, Chris. You're just hanging out with these Hollywood types too much. Not a lot of punching over at your little W Magazine galas and stuff, you know?

I would, I would love to get punched.

[laughs]

I definitely deserve it.

Ooh.

Ooh, okay.

Not you.

[laughs]

Squirt kink.

Uh, yeah. [laughs]

But yeah, you, I mean, you definitely do deserve it, of course. Um-

That's the kind of blood I likeI was gonna ask you, did you, during your Vice heyday, did you ever get taken to Atlantic City to gamble on the, on the helicopter with Shane?

[laughs] No.

No?

No.

Wow.

No.

Wow, that's crazy. I guess that was maybe fellas only.

Yeah, I was a woman, yeah.

'Cause you seem like somebody who would gamble, I have to say.

Um.

Not with your life, not with your life.

I like some blackjack.

Just with money.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I didn't, but I, but it was so funny, like I do remember we showed up in Russia and there was a fixer, and he was like... It was the first day and we landed, and we went straight to work. And then that night he was like, "So tonight, we go to strip club?" And I was like, "What?" [laughs] He was like-

Classic Russian fixer

... and then he, and I was like, "What do you mean?" He was like, "Well, with Shane, you know, like we go to strip club and gamble."

[laughs]

And he bought me new shoes, you know? [laughs]

The paperwork says Vice Magazine. There's, uh-

And the whole, I was like, "You're gonna get up at 5:00 AM tomorrow and we're gonna work." [laughs]

Mm.

So it wasn't-

Oh, God

... it wasn't as fun.

Good for Shane.

I feel like a, I feel like a Russian fixer would be able to burn it at both ends if anyone could.

That's right.

But I, I guess it's smarter to get s- a, a nice sleep before a 5:00 AM wake-up.

Yeah, we were just like in Siberia, you know. I mean, we have, we drank. It wasn't like, you know.

Sure, sure, sure.

I'm not a narc. It was just like-

Hey, you're cool. We get it.

[laughs] I was like, "I don't ha- I'm not, I don't have money to give you to gamble [laughs] and pay for your strips."

Oh, I see. It was supposed to be y- oh, I understand. He, you were gonna be paying for it, so you were less interested.

Well, I w- he was, I think there was sort of like this feeling of like, you know, we all get to-

More, more fun when Shane is there.

[laughs] I just didn't spend time with him. Like, I just think he wasn't very interested in what I was doing.

But I feel like your show was pretty popular, though. It was like well-liked, wasn't it?

Yeah, but like, you know, he didn't say this, but there would be meetings where they'd be like, "You know what the problem with this show is? There's too many women working on it." [laughs]

Sure.

You know, it was like that kind of thing-

Sure

... where you're like, okay.

You're saying, you're saying not just in front of the camera, but also behind the camera.

Yeah, I don't know. They just didn't wanna, like... W- we had our own kind of little island, and we kept to ourselves and stuff.

Yeah, yeah. Which is probably for, I mean, that's probably for the best.

Yeah. I had also like c- come from the Paris Review, which was like-

Not Vice?

Yeah, and the, everybody would make fun of me at Vice for like dressing up for work.

[laughs]

[laughs] You know?

Yeah, I guess that must be a very stark difference of switching from, 'cause you were, you were editor-ish-

I was-

... at Paris Review? What was it-

I was head of advertising and promotions and then advisory editor.

Advisory editor, that's right.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so going from there, Paris Review, I've been to a couple of their parties. We all know the vibe, a very literary-

Yeah, yeah

... well-educated kinda Ivy Leaguy vibe. S- and then going over the bridge to the Vice-

I mean, they were both, they were both like 5:00 somewhere places. [laughs]

Right, right.

I was gonna s- I was gonna say-

Yeah, yeah

... I think there's maybe more in common than you think.

Yeah. No, no, there was, but it was just like-

One's Beefeater, one's PBR, but yeah.

[laughs] Yeah.

Everybody does cocaine, that's the thing. That's a good through line for-

Both would let you smoke indoors, I'm assuming, yeah?

Yeah, there was a lot of smoking. Yeah. [laughs]

Mm-hmm.

There was a lot of smoking. [laughs]

Maybe more indoor smoking at a Paris Review party than a Vice party.

But when you say, when you say, when you say dress up, do you just mean wear like normal clothes?

Yeah, and they would all like make fun of me. Or they w- or they would be leaving work, and they would be like, "What are you still doing here?" And I'm like, "Making a show." [laughs]

Yeah, like-

It's so, this is so hard. [laughs] Like-

And they're like, "Yeah, but Grimes is playing at the Union Pool. What the fuck is wrong with you?"

[laughs]

"We gotta go."

[laughs] Yeah.

It's happy hour, though. The oysters are really cheap.

Yeah, we gotta go to Pies & Thighs, bro.

And then you're like, all the fancy snacks are gone, and you're like, "Something's happening." [laughs]

Oh.

The fancy snack, the fancy snack disappearing act is the writing on the wall for any-

Yeah

... funded company-

Yeah

... I feel like. When the, when the stout count-

We go from Essentia, Essentia's gone, Dasani's in.

That's funny. When the KIND bars are in, you got, you know it's time to go.

[laughs]

You know it's time to, let me look.

Oh, oats and honey.

Yeah.

Okay, I'm gonna start looking around for a new job.

Oh, look for a, this is worse than flying.

It was like-

Oh, you gotta look for a new job

... Nutri-Grain crumbs everywhere.

[laughs]

Or no, what is those ones that are everywhere? Nature Valley.

Nature Valley.

That's what you're saying. Yeah. What, what, what flavor is it? Oats & Honey.

Oats & Honey.

[laughs]

I'll always love an Oats & Honey.

You take a bite and it's just like detritus all over you. [laughs]

They do, they do, they do taste good, though. They really do taste good, I have to say.

It's like you just like, [laughs] it's like drywall.

[laughs] Yeah, but also, I mean, as somebody w- who's a good spitter-

[laughs]

... I think you, you probably have enough good mouth control. I feel like I can eat an Oats & Honey, you know, in a silent, surgical way to avoid any crumb detritus all over the place.

That's enough about my mouth control, Jason. [laughs]

I'm talking about my mouth.

[laughs] I can't believe the publicist is also listening to this whole thing. They're gonna be like, "This sounds like porn." Like, this is horrible. [laughs]

Are you trying to-

You can't talk that way anymore

... are you trying to sell movie tickets or not, Bab, you know?

Yes, yes.

This is what happens.

Yes.

Yeah, literally.

Please-

Literally

... please go see my movie. [laughs] I'm really good at spitting.

With, with-

[laughs]

[laughs]

With a, all right, so with a movie like this, what do you-

Yeah

... what do you consider a success? Like, what, like just getting it done is sort of the success, or do you, or where, where's your kind of gauge?

Well, you know, I've never done this before.

Mm.

So-

So g- so finishing is a success in, it's, all right

... so making it is insane. We shot the movie in 19 days, which is like, maybe means nothing to you, but like-

That's short

... Marty Supreme is probably like 75.

I don't ever wanna hear about Marty Supreme again, but I'll, I'll allow it in this-

Okay

... I'll allow it in this case.

Um, just as an example, uh, we made it independently. We played at Sundance.We won, which was great, and then people were kind of afraid of the movie. [laughs] They thought it was too political.

You're saying after you won and people were, like, paying attention-

Mm-hmm, yeah

... they were like, "Well, I like this, but I can't give you any money 'cause it's too political"?

Yeah.

Mm.

And then we found a very brave, wonderful distributor to put it out. And so now it's gonna come out, and, you know, it's up to the people.

Sure. But I- I guess, what is the eventual goal after it comes out in theaters? That it goes somewhere so it's- it's easier to watch?

I just want it to be in theaters so people go see it.

Sure.

Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Oh, fuck. I'm getting a note. It's December 12th, but there's... [laughs]

Okay.

Oh, but there is a... Wait, but there is a s- but December 11th is, like, a sneak peek. I guess I'm not supposed to, uh, ruin the surprise.

Well, this is a, this is a s- this is a sneak peek audience. You know, many of the people-

Okay

... in attendance already listen to the pod, so it's fine.

S- they're sneaky.

But, I mean, I guess Chris, like w- Chris was saying, he- he wrote something a few weeks ago about how everyone is a little too obsessed with the box office budgets versus-

Uh-huh

... you know, the gross and the-

I mean, I mean people, but the point, people outside of, people that don't do it for a living.

People who don't work in the, you know, just a random guy on Instagram who's like-

Oh

... "The budget for After the Hunt was $80 million, and we grossed 9.3-"

I see, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah

... "worldwide, and we haven't factored in China yet," blah, but, you know.

Right, right, right. Well, we made the movie very cheaply, and I'm really proud of it, and the movie rocks, and it's super weird, and I love it. And-

S- so who w- r- so you said independently made.

Yeah.

Does that mean you came out of pocket?

No.

Okay.

I have, I have, uh, some wonderful-

You have a financier

... financiers. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, okay, okay.

Um-

Got it

... but yeah, I mean, independent film in America is... [laughs] It's a graveyard. It's a graveyard.

A labor of love.

No, it's, I mean, I'm s- I'm just really excited. It's, I think, when m- when I was in Japan, a Japanese friend saw it, and she said to me-

Do the voice

... "This is not like anything I've ever seen."

Yeah.

For me, that's a success.

I agree. It is so- like something I've never seen, and it's a storyline, like as soon as, when you're watching it, and as soon as I realized what was happening, I was like, "Oh, this is a very fun idea for a movie. I'm just curious to see how this idea plays out," because it's rare where you're like, "This is a movie about something that I've never heard of before, and I'm interested in it," versus like, "Oh, this is a cool obtuse project, uh, look on, you know, blah, blah, blah. Yes, it's novel and new, but I don't really care how it ends." I was very curious to see how your film ended, which to me is the, a benchmark of- of any good film, you know? You have to care-

Thank you

... about what happens.

Chris is now asleep. [laughs]

Chris, a movie-

Where, I don't watch movie... I mean, to be honest with you, I just don't watch movies. I just don't.

So you wrote about box office, but you don't watch movies? That's so nerdy. [laughs]

Yeah, because people, because people won't shut up about it. That's the problem with it.

He wrote about the nerdiness of the people who don't work in the biz who are, you know-

But this is true about, this is true about any sort of art form, is that because we have access to all the data, people can't help themselves in analyzing the data when it has sort of no effect on them, is- is what essentially-

And, uh, also the stan culture of like, "I don't like Sabrina Carpenter," so when one of her shows s- uh, doesn't sell out in- in Des Moines, and I pulled up the Ticketmaster report, and-

Mm

... or like, oh, this, you know, Haley's new film is pulling up, and I go to the AMC website, and look, it's not even halfway sold out yet on opening, you know, like that kind of shit, where it's like y'all- y'all really need to get a life.

Like m- sh- money schadenfreude?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just don't, I, I'm, yeah.

That's pretty lame. I mean, I- I think it's, for me, like the- the joy of doing this is f- when people see the movie and have a nice time, you know?

Yeah.

Well, that, well, that's what it should be about for everything. That's the whole point is, like, if you like it, then it was a success.

Yeah.

I think we need to un-fry people's brains because before, just a movie being good and enjoyable and liking it was enough, and now people, we need data and information to form our opinions about something, so what is the point of seeing something if it wasn't a financial success? And I think a lot of people have that thought, and I think that-

[laughs] Everything that I've ever loved was not a financial success.

Good, yeah, yeah.

So I, I mean-

I can't say-

That's pretty shit

... I can't go that, I can't go that far, but it's like-

[laughs]

With m- well, with, I mean, with i- with music it's crazy 'cause you can go on Spotify-

'Cause you love Transformers?

Yeah. [laughs] I don't know what... I have, that's the only Blu-ray I have, so it's funny.

[laughs]

Bro, John Waters is her Transformers, okay? She's kind of a different chick.

[laughs] I'm f- I'm so funky. [laughs]

Yeah. I'm a funk-

No, I love-

I'm a funky chica

... I love Starship Troopers.

Okay.

You know.

That is a, that is a little funky, though.

I love Verhoeven.

What are you drinking, by the way?

Mm. It's the worst idea to drink while we're doing this. I'm really sorry.

No, what is it?

It's called a Coloso, and it has this actually, like, Jean-Claude Van Damme looking guy on it.

That guy's kinda hot.

It's a, it's a coconut water with pulp.

Yeah.

You got a Ch- you got a Chad coconut water. [laughs]

I know, and I'm really sorry, because it has these, like-

Chunks

... small pieces in it.

You're chewing on those little boba, can you-

I know. This is so gross. I'm sorry.

Do you think it's a possibility that we could get a little, maybe spit one of those little coconut pulp chunks through the teeth?

[laughs]

[laughs]

Wow.

You know she's been thinking about that the whole time and just holding back.

Mm-hmm.

She's been holding back, and I appreciate your restraint.

Oh, my God.

It shows, it shows growth. It shows growth.

It's really hard for me. [laughs] I can feel, I can feel the publicist, like, sending another note being like, "Do not spit." [laughs]

Did you... How would you rate that- that drink? Because I like-I like pulp in my coconut water

Yeah, yeah

How would you rate it o- out of 10?

I real- I love drinks. I love drinks with weird things in them. [laughs]

Very Trumpy of you to say that.

I love drinks. I love drinks with things in them.

I have the best drinks.

[laughs]

Um, [laughs]

It's a tremendous beverage.

Tremendous drinks. Everybody says my drinks are wonderful. Um, you know what? The-

Is there sugar added to that, Haley?

Yes.

Oh.

That's the only sad part.

Oh.

Oh.

I know, I know.

Wow.

Come back to the mainland, where the harmless harvest flows like wine.

Look, this one also has something in it.

Oh, so you're just, you're just going to the store and buying whatever freaky shit you can find.

[laughs] Yeah.

You know they have regular water there you can drink.

Wait, also look what I got, this kind of like Pedialyte Gatorade.

Oh yeah, I, I'm familiar with that.

You like this?

You have a twisted... This is your... Okay, so this is your... You're like a hungover chick at brunch right now, the amount of dr-... You got a coffee?

I love drinks.

Do you have a coffee too?

[laughs]

No, it's like kinda late.

Okay, so you have three drinks. Is that, is that-

Mm.

Do you... Is there another one you're hiding from us, or you got three?

Uh, I think that's all I have.

Okay, okay.

Did you know the piña colada was invented here?

No.

Yeah, ch- wow. I mean-

[laughs] I wish I had one right now.

That would be so fun.

Okay. Well, you can go, you can go get a piña colada as soon as we fin-... I'm sure you have some work to do, but you could kinda have a nightcap, I, I'm sure.

Bang out a couple emails, hit the airport hotel bar.

So you don't know how much longer you're gonna be there.

Mm, yeah. I'm sort of deciding whether to stay for Thanksgiving or not. Um, the... They also celebrate Thanksgiving here because it's America.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, but also it sort of feels like that's the time Trump would do some funny business, you know, when people are distracted.

So you wanna be... You're trying to be there-

I don't know

... for the funny business, and you're just kinda having to wait it out and, and feel it-

[laughs] No, no, no

... emotionally.

You don't, you wanna... You don't wanna be around for a Turkey Day Venezuelan bombing.

There is a Thanksgiving massacre in my movie, actually.

This is too... Do you wanna die? Like, what's the vibe here? I don't under-

No, no, no, no, I'm... No, I'm actually... It's... No, no, I'm... I haven't decided whether I'm gonna stay for Thanksgiving or go back to New York.

But the way you're talking about it is you wanna see some shit go down, is what it sounds like to me.

No, no, I was saying should I try to leave before or stay.

Should you flee before-

Yeah, yeah

... you are maybe unable-

But not flee

... to flee?

I mean, it doesn't seem that bad here.

Do you have any, did you get, did you get any oil, or are you good? You, you don't have any oil? [laughs]

No, I have a, yeah, I have a big purse full of oil. [laughs]

[laughs]

I swam to Venezuela [laughs] and sucked up some oil through my gap. [laughs]

I was able, I was, I was able, I was able to put a lot of oil in this one Miu Miu bag I brought.

[laughs] Yeah, exactly.

And it's, it's, it's gonna be fine. I'll be able to get it back over.

It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine.

I'll be able to get it through security at the airport.

Okay. Well, Haley-

Yeah

... uh, oil baron and independent filmmaker, thank you so much for taking the time-

Thank God, yeah

... to chat with us. The, uh, the new film is out December 12th if you're a regular civilian.

December 12th.

December 11th if you're cool and live in LA or New York and get invited to a cool-

New York. Just New York

Just New York.

LA in January.

Okay. Beautiful, beautiful. And the film is called Atropia, which is a, based on a fictional country that happens, that exists in real life.

Yeah.

And I like the c- the flag colors too.

Thanks.

You didn't really create the flag.

I didn't create the flag of Atropia?

I don't think so. [laughs]

Uh, which one are you talking about? [laughs] The one on- online or the one in the movie?

[laughs] The one online.

[laughs] Which one are you talking about?

[laughs] Well, the one... No, 'cause [laughs] for some reason the art department couldn't clear the one online. It was copyrighted or something.

So you did actually create it then.

So we did make one, yeah.

Flag stuff is notoriously tough. I just, I just up- I uploaded a, a flag JPEG to the chat.

Oh, this is a n- this is a nice flag. You got this tatted on you? This'd be a nice tat for you on your, on your upper arm.

I don't have any tats. I'm not a loser.

No, women shouldn't have tats. That's fine.

Okay, that's all the time we have for you, Haley.

[laughs] Oh, wait, you have lots of tats?

Men can do stuff 'cause the pa- you know, et cetera. We've been given the right to look stupid.

Oh. I agree, I agree.

Great flag, though.

Okay. Well, thank you.

Thank you.

We appreciate you.

Um, thank you so much. I'll tell you about some, uh-

Y- she's gonna give you the Japan download as soon as we log off.

Send me your list.

[laughs] Send me your-

Send me your list. Where are the best pancakes? Where are the best pancakes?

This is my Osaka.

[laughs]

All right, I'm gonna go find some oil. Thanks, guys. [laughs]

If you don't bring, if you don't bring me back a little vial of oil, you're in fucking trouble.

Yeah. You're allowed up to 2.7 ounces of oil in your carry-on, okay?

[laughs]

Don't forget that, Haley.

Yeah. Dump, dump out your skincare and fill it up with some fucking oil, okay? We gotta figure this out.

Oh, God. [laughs]

Okay. Konnichiwa.

Enjoy.

This was a disaster. [laughs]

Okay. We'll see you on Spotify tomorrow. Bye.

Bye. Tomorrow?

Later.

Tomorrow, bitch.

That's right.

This is happening.

Tomorrow?

The first day of your rest of your life.

Oh, God.

Happy Thanksgiving. Get ready for a bunch of followers you don't want.

No.

[laughs] Okay, bye.

I'm gonna post a picture of Charles Manson. [laughs]

[laughs]

That's how I like to get them, get them out.

Okay.

Bye. [outro music]

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